Was the original ECW really that good?

[The Crock]

A lot of people on these forums absolutely love the original ECW, they will not allow a single bad word to be said about it. Now, ECW was good and entertaining, but was it really that good?

I say that it was not all that good. It was really redundant, the same matches and the same exact moments almost every single episode. Now, ECW was good for how much money was invested into it, and it is truly amazing that so many guys stayed loyal to it until the end, even when Paul Heyman wasn't paying them. The "hardcore" wrestling was exciting, but sloppy. ECW was a spotfest, it wasn't all that much wrestling. I won't deny that it did accomplish a couple of great things, it entertained a ton of people and is to this day watched by its own niche crowd of fans.... But at the same time that might be the issue. If you only cater to some people, if you don't offer ANYTHING for other fans, then your product is not as successful as you think.

What do you guys think?

 

[The Gr8 1 SLASH]

I enjoyed the hell out of ECW and thought it was good.

The ECW style of wrestling and storylines (i.e.- worked shoots) came out when the wrestling industry was starting to become stagnant, especially in WWF and WCW (World champions with little or NO charisma whatsoever). It was definitely different than most of the cookie cutter programs being put out at that time.

 

[HellbossMilitia]

A lot of people on these forums absolutely love the original ECW, they will not allow a single bad word to be said about it. Now, ECW was good and entertaining, but was it really that good?

I say that it was not all that good. It was really redundant, the same matches and the same exact moments almost every single episode. Now, ECW was good for how much money was invested into it, and it is truly amazing that so many guys stayed loyal to it until the end, even when Paul Heyman wasn't paying them. The "hardcore" wrestling was exciting, but sloppy. ECW was a spotfest, it wasn't all that much wrestling. I won't deny that it did accomplish a couple of great things, it entertained a ton of people and is to this day watched by its own niche crowd of fans.... But at the same time that might be the issue. If you only cater to some people, if you don't offer ANYTHING for other fans, then your product is not as successful as you think.

What do you guys think?

ECW was something different if you wanted to see something more provocative, uncensored, and violent than you would in the WWF/WCW at the time. Even the Attitude Era wasn't as violent and profound as ECW. A lot of it was meant to be a shock value that makes you say in Joey Styles words "Oh my god".

Not taking away from many of the wrestlers abilities though. Honestly I thought there were a bunch of technically skilled wrestlers that got to show us what they're made of instead of the typical 5-6 moves you see from wrestlers in WWE. Even when Mike Awesome would powerbomb everyone numerous amounts of times a match at least he didn't something different with it almost every time. Rather it be a powerbomb to the outside through a table, or off the turnbuckle it was pretty...badass.

I will say I loved ECW. I will say it definitely isn't for all wrestling fans. Some people didn't enjoy seeing matches that were made around no rules with consistent tables, ladders and chairs among other things being used. Sometimes it seemed more of using weapons to win than actual wrestling. I can understand that. Aside from it, I was impressed with a lot of the moves and abilities I did see through wrestlers like Tajiri and Super Nova for example.

I give A LOT of respect to the wrestlers who contributed to ECW. A lot of the falls, unprotected chair shots, etc.. etc.. put a lot of wear and tear on their bodies. Basically taking a lot of time off of their careers. It's just sad to see how some of them turned out to be today.

I did enjoy a lot of the ECW promos, and in my opinion were more unique than what you would see in WCW/WWF(E).

Love or hate ECW, I feel as if all wrestling fans should give some sort of respect to the originals of ECW for their dedication and hard work they would put themselves through for their fans and for less than half of the money people in WCW/WWF would make.

I could say a lot more, some of it is hard to put into words about what I feel about the days of ECW.

 

[Tattooed Jesus]

ECW was awesome because of the same reason the attitude era of WWE was so awesome, it was driven by the wrestlers and not confined by the restraints of creative control. Guys were given a small guideline of where to go but then were let loose to run with. Thats why the promos were so awesome by Raven, Mick Foley, Steve Austin, and Shane Douglas in ECW because they were making them up themselves, it was their voices, not some scripted bullshit. The matches were insane spotfests yes no denying that but they were far from the cookie cutter matches that we often see to much of these days. Bot WWE and WCW tried to copy what ECW was doing at the time, WWE succeeded mainly because of Vince's ability to keep the chaos confined, WCW failed because when the inmates began to run the Asylum, there were only crazy people left in charge.

 

[The Anti-Christ]

Never been a fan of ECW. It was overrated to me. It may have been cool to see extreme stuff happen like going through a flaming table but overall, it was a joke of a company.

 

[HellbossMilitia]

Never been a fan of ECW. It was overrated to me. It may have been cool to see extreme stuff happen like going through a flaming table but overall, it was a joke of a company.

With all due respect this is a very vague statement. How do you feel it was overrated?

It didn't even get that much publicity or attention to be considered overrated, and there was much more interesting things that took place than just powerbomb someone through flaming tables.

In fact I think most Anti-ECW fans aside of not being a fan of Hardcore wrestling is the fact they feel ECW wasn't a flashy promotion. Not having all these pyros, and expensive technology to promote the use of their shows and wrestlers. No titan trons, or fireworks going off. In a way it was a nice change...it seemed like it was more down to business than lighting up like the 4th of July when a wrestler comes out. Some people feel that it was too low of a budget to gain any respect or credibility. I feel that's not looking at the point of why we're watching wrestling. Sometimes I feel as if the whole pyro and fireworks in the WWE tend to be a bit excessive. Honestly the only one I even like anymore is Kane's and that's because he's had it since the time he debuted, and it fits with his character.

 

[Swarles Barkley]

Never been a fan of ECW. It was overrated to me. It may have been cool to see extreme stuff happen like going through a flaming table but overall, it was a joke of a company.

Not trying to sound like an asshole, but if it wasn't for that "joke of a company" Jeff Hardy likely doesn't have a career. Seeing as you're using his image in your avi, I suspect you are a fan. Thank ECW for Hardy being able to find a niche in the world of pro wrestling. Hardy never competed in ECW, but without their influence on the WWF Attitude (and yes, ECW did influence the WWF immensely) Hardy never would have found a role in the WWF.

ECW was different, it was counterculture. It's failure was becoming too popular. Had it stayed small, like ROH, it's probably still around in some capacity today.

That said, I also think that it was the right company at the right time. There was a expiry date on the type of pro wrestling they were presenting to the consumer. I have no doubt that Paul Heyman would have found a way to revolutionize the industry again by transforming ECW into something new when a change was needed.

ECW was not for everyone, but it was much more than just chair shots and blood. It had some great wrestlers too. For every Sandman, there's a Chris Benoit. For every Sabu, there's a Dean Malenko. All ECW did was tap into a segment of the market that wasn't being serviced by the WWF and WCW. It helped to influence the Attitude Era, no doubt. ECW will be fondly remembered by this fan.

E-C-Dub! E-C-Dub! E-C-Dub!

 

[Snap Suplex]

Bionic Redneck's post sums it up perfectly, especially about "being driven by the wrestlers". That's right, story lines were told through wrestling. There were awesome, very edgy promos, but the wrestling in the ring backed it up. It wasn't cookie cutter, garbage marketed for children. It was edgy, pushing the envelope inside and outside of the ring.

I remember seeing ECW for the first time and being blown away, because it wasn't anything I had seen in wrestling before. The crowds were rabid-absolutely insane! Not a bunch of children cheering for their cookie cutter super hero in the ring insane, but adults showing appreciation for seeing innovation and creativity, along with the freedom to WRESTLE, shoot, and push the limits.

 

[thesweetness]

Yes. It was really THAT good. I have been to a bunch of live wrestling events. I've seen it all; wwe, wcw, ecw, all kind of nwa and indies. ECW put on the best live events of all the promotions. They had great wrestling matches, and some great spotfestacular matches too. But it was more exciting and exhilarting than any other show. So, if you never saw them live then I'm sorry, you missed out on some great stuff.

 

[Calderownz]

Obviously, something like this is subjective. It depends on what you're into.

But, it also depends on what you mean by "that good." If you mean that it measured up to WWE or WCW in every way and wasn't overhyped in any way, then no.

If you mean, was it a good third company that had some good talent that was good enough to be stolen away and had some very unique and interesting character and storyline ideas, then yes.

 

[jayceonblaze]

Not trying to sound like an asshole, but if it wasn't for that "joke of a company" Jeff Hardy likely doesn't have a career. Seeing as you're using his image in your avi, I suspect you are a fan. Thank ECW for Hardy being able to find a niche in the world of pro wrestling. Hardy never competed in ECW, but without their influence on the WWF Attitude (and yes, ECW did influence the WWF immensely) Hardy never would have found a role in the WWF.

ECW was different, it was counterculture. It's failure was becoming too popular. Had it stayed small, like ROH, it's probably still around in some capacity today.

That said, I also think that it was the right company at the right time. There was a expiry date on the type of pro wrestling they were presenting to the consumer. I have no doubt that Paul Heyman would have found a way to revolutionize the industry again by transforming ECW into something new when a change was needed.

ECW was not for everyone, but it was much more than just chair shots and blood. It had some great wrestlers too. For every Sandman, there's a Chris Benoit. For every Sabu, there's a Dean Malenko. All ECW did was tap into a segment of the market that wasn't being serviced by the WWF and WCW. It helped to influence the Attitude Era, no doubt. ECW will be fondly remembered by this fan.

E-C-Dub! E-C-Dub! E-C-Dub!

This. Plus the Lucha Libres from WCW would likely not have come to fruition like they did.

Plus the Stone Cold that we know today originated in ECW. Where did Chris Jericho get his start? This promotion is known for many of the great wrestlers today.

 

[shagonzalez]

Paul Heyman put it best ECW is to wrestling what Nirvana was to the music industry.I grew up in Queens NY and i use to go to the Madhouse in Queens Blvd man how i miss those days,i love ECW it had a bit of everything it wasn't only about violence some of the best wrestlers wrestled in ECW at some point guys like guerrero,benoit.Yes the theme of ECW was Hardcore but the meaning behind the word laid in relevance to the Wrestler's work ethic,sometimes matches got sloppy and we the fans would let it be known.ECW was real-all heart,night in-night out.

 

[UltimateHitman]

I agree that is WAS that good. It just blew me away when I finally watched it for the first time. Not going to repeat the awesome points that are being made, but you did have awesome wrestling talent along w/the chair bashing. I know some people think only about people like Balls Mahoney, Sandman, and New Jack when they think of ECW, but what about the RVD/Jerry Lynn series? That had some hella fine wrestling to it. Sabu back in the day was pretty damn good and tough as balls. While I didn't like the FBI all that much, a couple of those guys could go the distance (sans Big Sal of course). You had Jericho there, Eddy was there, you had a ton of decent workers, plus it gave Scott Levy a gimmick that stayed with him for the remainder of his career in Raven, the Pitbulls, I mean there was a lot ECW had to offer.

Maybe that's part of what appealed to the audience, too. When we think back or hear mention of ECW, it's immediately thought of in the hardcore "bash everybody in the head w/a kendo stick or a chair, or putting somebody through a table" light. But you have to look beyond the immediate surface to some of the unbelievable high spots either onto concrete or even out into the ringside seating, great acrobatics that weren't simply just high spots, and wrestlers that were allowed to just go out there and wrestle, unrestricted, and allowed to push their abilities to the limit no matter what area those abilities were, whether it was pure wrestling talent, the gift of gab, or even just absorbing inhuman amounts of punishment and pain.

 

[TUFFY54]

I was a big fan of the original ECW and watched almost all of their PPV's live. That being said, it wasn't as incredible as people remember it being. Most things from this wrestling era fall into the same category. The Attitude Era, the NWO, original ECW, they were about 50% incredible and 50% total crap. We as humans just tend to look at everything with rose colored glasses. ECW was no exception.

The Good of ECW- It had an incredible passion to it that simply hadn't been seen before in American wrestling. It had totally unique and original characters. It helped introduce great new stars to the wrestling scene. People like Jericho, Benoit, Guererro, Mysterio, and RVD all got their start in the original ECW. Along with them, Steve Austin and Mick Foley both credit their time in ECW to restarting their careers and leading them to being the icons they are today. Heyman never gave a guy a script and told him to say it word for word. He took impute and let people develop their own voices. Most importantly, Paul Heyman knew how to turn garbage into gold. He could take a guy like the Sandman who had ZERO wrestling talent, and turn him into a superstar by giving him an intro and persona that was so great people didn't care what he did in the ring.

The Bad of ECW- Unfortunately, a lot of ECW was pure garbage. Most of the promos weren't the great masterpieces that people remember (Raven, Foley, and the Dudleys were great, most weren't). Shawn Michaels summed up most ECW promos: "We kept hearing about how great these promos were. When we watched them we laughed because all it was was somebody saying they were going to kick your fucking ass because you were a piece of shit. Thats not talent, anyone can cut an intense promo when they are allowed to say they want to fucking kill somebody." Along with this, most matches were crap. For every five star RVD vs. Jerry Lynn, or Sabu vs. Taz, you had ten one star matches that were on par with Amish Roadkill getting hit in the head with a Nintendo 64 by New Jack. In the wrestling business the cream almost always rises to the top. Most people talk about guys staying with ECW when they weren't getting paid because of the passion for the company. It's not true. With a few exceptions, almost everyone who was in ECW at the end either wasn't good enough to go to the big leagues, or had burned every bridge in the business.

To sum it up, the original ECW had moments when it was so great you thought it was the best wrestling company on the planet. Unfortunately, it had a lot more moments where it was mediocre at best.

 

[Million Dollar Dream]

I'm am not an ECW fan however it did make it's mark in wrestling and both WCW and WWE(F) for both companies to take notice. Both companies created a Hardcore Title and stole away ECW talent left and right. ECW was a stepping stone for many wrestlers that made their mark in the wrestling industry examples including Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Edge, Lita, First stages of Stone Cold Steve Austin (from a creative side), Rob Van Dam, Dudley's, Taz, and it repackaged Johnny Polo aka Raven. WWE and WCW didn't just create Hardcore Belt either they did so because fans were enjoying that style of sports entertainment (that wasn't wrestling)...

Like I've stated I was not a big ECW fan but I dislike even more when companies like WWE and TNA try and rehash the past success of ECW. It's done and over with Paul Heyman was the creative genius behind the ECW brand and without his creativity ECW is actually more tarnished each time it's brought back because many of the past talent out of shape and look no better then 2010 Nasty Boyz did. I really hope no wrestling company see's it necessary to do more reunions.

 

[darbare]

In the beginning, yea it was revolutionary....it was never done before....so revolutionary that WWE and WCW took away most of their stars and incorporated "attitude".....towards the end though, for me, it was unwatchable,..it was truly ECW....Extremely Crappy Wrestling....there was no substance...and substance could never be attained in a company where they were making little to no money and featuring only hardcore matches.....

 

[Hodgos]

Let's see...

- An amazing variety of vastly different wrestling styles (Axl Rotten type gargabe matches, lucha libre, Benoit-style techical clinics, Scorpio style spotfests, good traditional matches from guys like Douglas and Taz, which basically mirrored what the WWF were doing but with a harder edge, etc) all on display in the same show? Check.
- Storylines which were not only unpredictable and gripping, but genuinely intelligently written (see Raven/Dreamer)? Check.
- Gold comedy aimed at smart fans (see the bWo, etc)? Check.
- A passionate, near-riotous atmosphere, where absolutely anything could happen, at any time? Check.


Yes, it really was that good. When assessing the quality of ECW's product, people need to keep in mind that it was aimed at adults who were already passionate wrestling fans, and were smart to the business. That was their target audience, and Heyman built a product that catered to that target audience absolutely perfectly. This is where people completely miss the point when they say "if ECW was really as good as people say it was, then surely it would have gotten big enough to rival the WWF/WCW". No, it wouldnt have, because no matter how good it was, it was aimed at a niche group within a niche group. In contrast, the other two companies made products that were enjoyed by a broader group of people, but not as intensely as ECW fans enjoyed ECW. Heymans weaknesses were in managing finances, and he made a huge mistake in trying to expand his audience with the TNN deal. The content he produced was every bit as good as people make it out to be, if you're using the relavent criteria to assess it.

 

[Goliath Uterus]

Overall it was shit. The production value was awful, the storylines and promos seemed like they were hastily put together, and aside from a few guys, barely anybody could even cut a promo. Some of the matches were ridiculous, just two guys grabbing shit and hitting eachother with it, which got boring after about a minute.

But there were some brightspots, Mick Foley was great, Terry Funk was great, the Lucha Libre matches were (for the most part) exciting as hell and fun to watch.

But no, it wasn't good, ECW was awful

 

[Old_School]

the best part of ecw was seeing it live. In philly. The crowd the atmosphere the wrestlers. terry funk was terry funk not chainsaw charlie. no characters just people being themselves. when shane douglas got on the mic he drew you into what he was saying not scripted bullshit that wrestling turned into. Not to mention i got threw out once for grapping francines tit. lol

 

[Davi323]

As someone who used to watch it at 1am on Saturday nights, no, it was really not all that good. It was different, you saw stuff that you couldn't see anywhere else, but it was rubbish. The matches really were mostly nothing but violent spot fests. There were a few exceptions, but for the most part, it was moving from bleeding spot A to bleeding spot B, to bleeding spot C, etc. That is, assuming you actually saw wrestling in the hour program. There were times when it felt like 3/4 of the air time was spent promoting ECW videos. At times it felt more like a 1 hour ECW infomercial than it did a wrestling program.

With that being said, I don't want to completely shit on ECW. While the matches were nothing but bloody spot fests, sometimes those are fun to watch...it felt naughty. Watching ECW made you feel like you were sneaking in something, getting away with watching something you know you shouldn't watch. Knowing how different it was from either the WWF or WCW, knowing what wrestling "should" look like, ECW felt subversive, like a secret underground society that only a few wrestling fans were in on. (given the ratings ECW got, and the timeslot it had, a lot more people claim to have watched it than ever actually did). It was horribly produced, but it had its elements of fun, and I don't want to completely bury it. Its like a really low budget horror movie that is so awful you end up liking it anyway.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

ECW was a legit alternative to WCW and the WWF in the mid to late 1990s. However, for me, ECW wasn't a tenth as good as some have made it out to be. If you were to believe the Gospel according to the IWC, then everything that took place in ECW was an absolute epic. In reality, the vast majority of what took place wasn't anything close to that.

The vast majority of the ECW roster was made up of guys that I wouldn't walk to the end of the drive way to watch watch for free, let alone actually pay money for. That's not to say that good wrestlers didn't work in ECW or come out of ECW, but the vast majority of them just had no talent that I could see. If you want to see ECW's overall legacy, then the best place to look for it is in backyards scattered here and there across America. I know that ECW didn't only do just hardcore matches but, let's be honest, those are the matches that get all the attention and the ones most talked about. Back in the day, whenever a commercial aired on television talking about an ECW ppv, the footage shown was almost always entirely made up of hardcore matches. Guys being put through flaming tables, guys being slammed on thumbtacks, guys with their heads pressed up against barbed wire, guys taking chairshots to the head, etc. The reason a lot of guys in ECW stood out was due to their performances in hardcore matches. You take them out of that environment and their limitations were plain to see and it doesn't take any skill to be a hardcore wrestler. A good abundance of masochistic tendencies yes, but no real skill.

Just as you hear with the Attitude Era, nostalgia plays a huge part in looking back on ECW and deciding how good it really was. ECW just never did anything for me. It was different and controvesial, that's definitely true, but different and controversial doesn't mean that it was good.

 

[ABMorales787]

Back then ECW was a 180 to what WCW and WWF were. WCW and WWF were about simple fun loving good guy vs bad guy TV stuff. The basics. Then you had ECW, where it was all gritty and realistic from a characters point. Sure, the wrestling most of the time stunk. But that was (back then at least) well masked by the use of weapons. Which back then was new to the American public. ECW was counter culture to WCW and WWF's pop culture. The fact they were total opposites, made them feel like complete alterantives. Not to mention that their more gritty and realistic style are the reason for the Attitude Era and the Monday Night Wars. It was also the company that brought to light many foreign styles of wrestling. Before guys like Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio and Ultimo Dragon were hitting strides in WCW's Cruiserweight division, they were first presented in ECW. At the end, ECW was innovative and responsible for many things we see today. I'd say that changing the face of wrestling is kind of a good thing from a historic point view when you think about it.

 

[Freddy4190]

I think alot of people just liked the story behind it, or like.. how can I word it.. Like, this little rundown company made the big wrestling companies, WCW/WWF stand up and take notice, and they did out of little shithole in Pennsylvania. They came from nothing, made a name for themselves, and got recognized. It was the complete opposite of the wrestling on TV. It was vulgar, it was bloody, it was violent, it was no holds barred and they took any kind of risk. Did I think it was the greatest thing ever, or as great as people hype it up to be? Not ALL of it, there are certain aspects that were ridiculous, just like any company. Do I still think it was awesome while it lasted? Indeed.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Yes it's a good third company. Its comparable to the way ROH is to TNA and WWE. I do say it inspired alot of the extremeness today in wrestling but honestly to me ECW was entertaining but just a bunch of renegades with weapons.

 

[SullivanSmith]

ECW wasn't particularly "good" if you're talking about the whole package - wrestling, performers and presentation. It just couldn't afford to be. However, ECW was "awesome". They were sort of like a low budget movie - since they didn't have as much money to work with (and therefore risk) they could afford to be creative and innovative. Because the wrestlers had a more personal interest in the company (as many worked behind the scenes as well as performed) they had a personal interest in making the company and the product itself.

While I loved almost everything about the product, it was the fan base that made that company so great. The ECW fan base was like a sub-culture in of itself. You know how, for some people it's embarrassing to say you're a wrestling fan (I mean, not for anyone on these boards, I'm sure, I'm just saying generally )? When you loved ECW you could say "I don't just like wrestling, I'm a goddamned ECW fan!"

That should have been a catchphrase. I'm always so behind on things.