Was Mania 25 one stipulation short of being great?

[Pay Per Ghost]

And by that I mean giving H vs Randy a No DQ stip.

The card was pretty good and the matches were pretty stellar as well.


The MiTB was a spotfest. A good one.

Hardy Vs Hardy I have always thought of as kinda underrated.

Taker/Shawn...next!

The WHC Three Way between Edge/Cena/Show was not bad. That double AA was beastly.



We keep coming back to what a let down the ME in Hunter vs Orton was. Strike that match off, and WM 25 is one of the better Manias top to bottom.





Wait was it Mania 25 that had that playboy bunny match?

 

[Y 2 Jake]

No. You can describe a few matches on that card as good and Undertaker/HBK is a modern classic, but even if Triple H & Orton had delivered it still would've been a pretty average card.

Why that match had no stipulation though, nobody motherfucker knows.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

I look at the card and performances, and its good. I mean the Steamboat performance and the buzz it garnered from the live audience, damn fine. Then the culminating Rourke Vs Jericho standoff. And this is when wrestling suddenly became hot cozza The Wrestler.

Sans that bunny shit (although one of the biggest pops was during that match; when the lights went out), I still think it is a very decent card.

 

[Shocky]

Kid Rock ruined Mania 25. What a disaster.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

WrestleMania 25 was a good wrestling event, everything delivered as it should. The main event could have been a lot better, but God knows why, they thought a standard wrestling match would be enough. The match wasn't even bad, but there was no way in hell they could follow the Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels standard wrestling match - also the storyline asked for a lot more than fake punches.

But I see your point, if the main event delivered as it should I would have no problem putting WrestleMania 25 in one of the best shows. I think that Chris Jericho vs. Piper, Snuka e Steamboat is pretty underrated and it probably was my 2nd favorite match of that evening.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Kid Rock ruined Mania 25. What a disaster.

I have gained some respect for Kid Rock over the years, especially after they played the best set during the Zeppelin Kennedy Honours.

Again, I'll try to put some perspective here. He played an OK set, but there were multiple problems there:

1) Musical acts should ALWAYS just play opening music to a wrestler. Period.

2) Who was the jabroni that let him play more than one song?

3) Was that the booker's idea of a piss break? It was so poorly placed on the card and the length, again this is like the no stip in the ME deal, why the fuck was he allowed to play more than 5 minutes! 2 headscratchers, 2 very piss poor decisions sucked a lotta buzz out of the evening.

 

[Kris Benwa]

I never thought about it but yeah I think so. The story was very personal I wouldn't wanna just wrestle someone who did all that shit I'd wanna smack him in the face with every weapon I found under the ring. I think that would have helped the match quality A LOT but like the other guy said it's hard to follow Taker vs HBK but I think a no DQ stip would have made it easier.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

No, but is still one of the most wildly, confusingly idiotic booking ideas ever.


Also, combined with the Kid Rock concert/skit/divas thing. I swear that whole segment went on for like a fucking hour.

 

[The Butcher]

Definitely should have been no dq. What's more, Taker/Shawn should've main evented. It gassed the audience, couldn't be topped, and despite the heat between H and Orton and the involvement of the WWE Championship, that match never felt as significant as Taker/HBK. Not saying that the card would've been necessarily better if that was the case, but the night would have crescendoed. I think that that change in concert with a no dq WWE title match would have increased the overall feel, if not the true overall quality, of the event. That is to say, we'd remember it more fondly.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Storyline wise I totally get why HHH/Orton was the main event as it was the biggest story going into the event and deserved the main event moniker. Personally going into the event I expected that match to be very good, Taker vs. Shawn was going to be better but there was no way of knowing it would be that incredible, those types of matches are a handful a lifetime if you're lucky.

For me there was only 2 matches on that card that didn't deliver the way you would want it to:

1) Hardy vs. Hardy (don't get me wrong it wasn't a bad match, I just wasn't as into it as I thought I would be).
2) HHH vs. Orton

Sadly a lot of times an event is only as good as the main event and WM25 was one of those shows. You can't expect it to be as good as HBK vs. Taker but you should expect a good match. They both have that Cerebral Assassin thing going on which is a bit of a problem when its a regular match, being cold and calculating works best when you have someone to play off of to make it mean something, Orton and HHH were doing the same thing and they had no one to play off of in their case. Also, it not being no DQ was a head scratcher as it would have made a hell of a lot more sense if it was. The crowd was drained but HHH vs. Orton killed it dead, not a good way to end a PPV and if the match was better the PPV would be better looked at no question.

More than anything I think what hurt that match is as a fan you didn't get what was expected. When a feud is that heated you want the participants to damn near kill each other and since they didn't do that the match came off as rather tame. That's the reason it should be no DQ, its easier to pull that off and it totally fits everything.

Overall it should have been a main event match, it was the biggest match going into the event but having a crowd killer closing the show will almost always put a show in a bad light.

 

[ABMorales787]

That show was so horribly misbooked. Not the stories leading to it, but the actual show. If memory serves there wasn't even a backstage promo besides seeing Orton and HHH being patted by Vinnie.

They bumped off a title unification match featuring 2 of the then-hottest midcard talents in the company and of course they never even told you who was in the ring for that Diva battle royal. Which of course, was just a big joke.

Oh, and Kid Rock sang a lot. Didn't have much of an issue with that, really. Other than it being right after the first match of the show. Who's brilliant idea was it to put a half time side show at the start?

 

[The Brain]

Was mania 25 one stipulation short of being great? No. It was one stipulation short of being decent. As it was WM25 was pretty bad and only HBK vs. Taker saved it from being one of the very worst.

While the main event would have greatly benefited from a no DQ stipulation I don’t think it was necessary. What was necessary was the presence of Legacy and the McMahons. The entire feud was built around the McMahon family and Orton always had Cody Rhodes and Ted Dibiase by his side. It made no sense to ignore everyone that helped build the feud during the big payoff. Rhodes and Dibiase should have been at ringside from the start. Their constant interference could have put Triple H in an underdog position and frustrated the fans. Eventually Vince and Shane could have come out to even the odds which I’m sure would have been met with the fans approval. Finally Stephanie could have come down during a critical point and slapped Orton setting him up for a pedigree and pin. This all would have been easier to execute with a no DQ stip but the exclusion of the McMahons and Legacy is what really hurt the match.

Obviously a better executed main event would have made for a better show but the rest of it (besides HBK vs. Taker) was still pretty bad. MITB had run its course at mania by that point. The Kid Rock concert/diva battle royal was probably the single biggest waste of time in mania history and poorly placed at the beginning of the show. Steamboat put on a good show but Jericho’s feud with the HOFers was poorly executed and came off as an obvious plan C. The Hardy match got the no DQ stip when it should have been a regular match. I felt like I was watching a match from 1999 which was not a good thing. The IC match was a disappointing 20 something second match. Cena vs. Show vs. Edge was a better fit for something like Backlash or Unforgiven rather than mania. The only good match besides HBK vs. Taker was bumped to a dark match.

Keep in mind that by WM25 Triple H vs. Orton had already been done to death. They feuded in 2007 and 2008 (not to mention 2004). They already had a steel cage match, two last man standing matches, and a three stages of hell match. The more personal touch was a needed element for the mania feud but these two had already been in so many gimmick matches. Yes, a no DQ stipulation would have made mania 25 better but it still would have been far from great.

Triple H vs. Edge and Randy Orton vs. John Cena probably would have made for a better show.

 

[Shocky]

Triple H vs. Edge and Randy Orton vs. John Cena probably would have made for a better show.

This. The big switch at Elimination Chamber was done for shock value. It was an awesome swerve, but ruined the two better match options.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Definitely should have been no dq. What's more, Taker/Shawn should've main evented. It gassed the audience, couldn't be topped, and despite the heat between H and Orton and the involvement of the WWE Championship, that match never felt as significant as Taker/HBK. Not saying that the card would've been necessarily better if that was the case, but the night would have crescendoed. I think that that change in concert with a no dq WWE title match would have increased the overall feel, if not the true overall quality, of the event. That is to say, we'd remember it more fondly.

Sadly a lot of times an event is only as good as the main event and WM25 was one of those shows. You can't expect it to be as good as HBK vs. Taker but you should expect a good match. They both have that Cerebral Assassin thing going on which is a bit of a problem when its a regular match, being cold and calculating works best when you have someone to play off of to make it mean something, Orton and HHH were doing the same thing and they had no one to play off of in their case. Also, it not being no DQ was a head scratcher as it would have made a hell of a lot more sense if it was. The crowd was drained but HHH vs. Orton killed it dead, not a good way to end a PPV and if the match was better the PPV would be better looked at no question.

More than anything I think what hurt that match is as a fan you didn't get what was expected. When a feud is that heated you want the participants to damn near kill each other and since they didn't do that the match came off as rather tame. That's the reason it should be no DQ, its easier to pull that off and it totally fits everything.

Overall it should have been a main event match, it was the biggest match going into the event but having a crowd killer closing the show will almost always put a show in a bad light.

I kinda disagree with the notion because although it is Taker Vs Shawn, after so many years AND at Mania,

a) The title should go on last (atleast the title that matters), unless there's a bigger deal on like a retirement match for like a Hogan or Austin.


b) H vs Orton, for all intents and purposes, had a phenomenal build.


Take for example the double main event at WM X7. Taker vs Hunter was fantastic and the crowd was fucking hot for it. And yet, they were even more boisterous for Rock/Austin. Now I know 'duuuuude its Rock and Austin' and I agree these two are the biggest names in modern pro wrestling but the key here was, earlier in the night for no apparent reason, Com. Regal made it a No DQ match. Just like that! You got a match that will deliver.

Oh and Debra, who was kinda involved in the culmination, was nowhere to be seen. Thank fucking god for that.


Ok now can someone verify this, wasn't Hogan Vs Cena bound to happen and the other plans were Big Show Vs Edge? And then John was thrown in last second?

 

[Y 2 Jake]

I heard it was going to be Cena & Edge again, then Vince added Big Show because he thought Cena vs. Edge was too familiar.

I think Cena vs. Hogan is a slow news day rumour.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Mmm, although that match for that Double AA spot alone is something else.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I remember hearing back in 08 they were aiming for Hogan vs. Cena at WM25 which would have been hella rad. I would guess they at least were hoping for that match at the time. Hogan wrestled a few years earlier against Orton so I would think a Cena/Hogan match was at least discussed.