Vince Shouldn't Have Paid Warrior

[The Brain]

After posting in a recent thread about the Blade Runners I got to thinking about the Ultimate Warrior. In that thread I mentioned SummerSlam 91. I’m sure most of you know the story. The Warrior was scheduled to team up with Hulk Hogan in the main event against Sgt. Slaughter, Col. Mustafa, and Gen. Adnan. Before the match Warrior threatened to no show unless Vince paid him a significant amount of money (I forget how much if it was ever mentioned). Vince paid Warrior. Warrior went out and worked the match and was promptly fired when it was over.

So it seems Vince didn’t have much choice. He didn’t want to disappoint the fans who were expecting to see Warrior in the main event. I think Vince did have a choice and I don’t think he should have paid Warrior. Normally Vince would be in an impossible spot, but in this case I think there was a suitable replacement for Warrior all set up. I’m talking about Sid Justice. Sid was brand new to the WWF at the time, but he came in with a lot of fanfare and was actually the guest referee in this main event. I think Vince should have done some sort of backstage segment explaining that Slaughter and company attacked the Warrior and he was unable to compete. Sid would be furious. He insisted how with him as the referee justice would be served, but now he would serve his own form of justice and take Warrior’s place as Hogan’s partner. I think the fans not only would have accepted Sid taking Warrior’s place, but would have preferred it. I was ten years old for SummerSlam 91. You would think a ten year old would have loved Hogan and Warrior teaming up for SummerSlam, but even back then I thought this was a weak main event. The well hyped new comer Sid would have been much more interesting. I thought that Sid should have been Hogan’s partner all along while Warrior should have wrestled either Jake the Snake or the Undertaker, but that’s another story.

So what do you think? Should Vince have paid the Warrior? It’s easy to look back and have a solution to a problem after the fact, but I think mine is an obvious solution that should have been thought of at the time. One thing that could ruin my solution is the timeframe. I don’t know if Warrior made this threat to Vince just minutes before the main event, an hour before, or a few hours before. I’d say if he had at least an hour my solution would have worked fine.

 

[Vintage]

Hell no. That opened the door for others to pull the same exact crap. There is no room for that crap in the business. Its not like he wasn't already being well paid Vince should have paid him and embarrassed his ass in front of the entire world on ppv. I guess that DVD they put out about him will have to do but he deserved way worse than that. I guess at that time Vince felt he needed him

 

[Twanfusco]

I personally have never heard this story but I can see you're idea being plausible however the ppv had an advertised match and in this case Vince put the fans first which is what made he and the WWF/WWE successful. Decisions like this will always be tough and it's easy to question it in hindsight but it's not like he showed a weakness that others could follow suit and exploit as he fired him after. Would he pay a current superstar in that situation nowadays? Hell no. Also how many people do you think have tried that since? I'll guess none. What he did was basically pay warrior a severance package so in the long run, and I'm only guess, he probably actually saved money on Warriors contract, as well as keeping the fans happy by giving them what the expected to see.

 

[TheBWO]

Sometimes, when your balls are in a sling, you have to crack a nut......

I think the creative wasn't as "creative" as it is now (if you wanna say that it is now, but that's a whole 'nother thread), and he could have easily been replaced. How many swerves have we seen on TV --hell, in the last year---someone comes out, "you and me, for the title, etc", and then something happens and someone else is replaced. Yes back then things may have been different, and maybe if Vince paid him by check, he should have put a stop pay on that mother---and then fired him. Whatever the case is, the ONLY person(s) that I can think of that would have at the very least a LITTLE bit of clout to hold the company hostage on a PPV would be HHH or maybe HBK (if he were wrestling at the height of his heyday). I think it's unprofessional, and the fact that he was in the company just a few years is even worse.

 

[TheAnimal]

I think had he not paid him, it could have damaged his reputation, the Warrior was advertised and people had gone there on the promise he would wrestle. People had ordered him on the promise that he would wrestle. I think had he not paid him then more people would have done it because there were no contracts at that time so had these people walked, then the WWF could have ended up being thin in the roster. Vince handled it perfectly i think. He paid him, then showed that he won't be fucked with by anyone and got rid of him. And aside from Hogan, that was the biggest name he had.

 

[Fred R.]

How do we know Vince didn't actually owe the Warrior money? I know people don't like the Warrior, but it is possible he was just standing up for himself and trying to get what he was owed. Vince is not known for being the most honest guy around.

 

[President Evil]

Vince had his back against the wall, it explains clearly on the Warrior dvd, said by Vince himself, that his job is to deliver what he has advertised. Anything less than that would be failure. And they were at MSG that night.

Vince fired Warrior's ass right after that. Warrior has been one of the guys who took the most out of this business and gave NOTHING back. Who did he put over in wwe? What did he do for others? Besides letting Taker put him in a body bag and Jake turning on him.

I think this has been the only guy who's been fired by the E 3 times.

1) 1991 - held Vince up for money

2) 1992 - drugs were found in his system

3) 1996 - Several no shows

 

[Tougie]

I never thought of Sid replacing Warrior so first off great post. And you make a very good point, this would have rocketed Sid to the top, although he got there eventually. He had WAY more talent than Warrior, charisma wise obviously no but back then most big guys never had to be on the mic. So its a shame that Sid really didnt get this chance.

 

[Digging4Plunder]

Vince had no choice but to pay Warrior money. I know that Sid was over at the time, but he was no Ultimate Warrior.. think about it.. a Warrior/Hogan team.. on PPV? That's buyrate city. The two most over guys on the same team to take out the notorious foreigners of the year makes people want to see it. Yeah, they could've done an injury angle with Warrior, blah blah.. fact is, people wouldn't of been satisfied. In entertainment, you do what the people want first, then what you want second.. hence why he fired Warrior AFTER the match.. because then he just didn't have to mention Warrior anymore and could speed up storylines to try and fill the void.

 

[The Brain]

To those who think Vince had to pay Warrior to satisfy the fans:

Ordinarily I agree that Vince should have paid the Warrior to satisfy the fans. If this was any other event I say pay Warrior then fire him. It’s just my opinion that Vince happened to have a great solution in Sid. Sid had hype coming in. He hadn’t even debuted yet and was put into the main event of SummerSlam at MSG with Hogan and Warrior. The fans were into him right off the bat. I truly feel that the fans not only would have been satisfied with Sid, but they would have preferred him. Despite his popularity Slaughter was trying to convince the fans that Sid was on his side. If the fans found out Warrior was attacked and could not wrestle they would have been disappointed. I think that disappointment would have quickly disappeared and the crowd would have erupted to learn Sid was going to wrestle on Hogan’s team. Remember the show closed with Hogan and Sid posing in the ring together anyway. Warrior was nowhere in sight. I think Sid teaming with Hulk would have been a pleasant surprise and the fans would have gone home happy.

 

[President Evil]

Thing is, kids loved Warrior at this time, the freakin went bonkers for this guy, and the adults were really into him too. If Vince would have gotten rid of Warrior before the event, people would have been like "what he hell?"

Yes, Sid was gaining momentum, but he quite wasnt there yet, thats why for example he was playing the enforcer referee. It was sort of like Sid being seen in the main event picture, just not hands on yet. By 1992 Sid's character had arrived in full force. And he was put with Hogan, at Mania 8.

Vince did the right thing, just do what he had to do to get that steroid junkie in the ring, then fire his ungrateful ass.

 

[Dudebuster420]

I'm on the fence with this one a bit. I've read a lot about the "Real" Vince McMahon and to say that he has been a shady or shrewd business man would be doing him a favor. The writers of history are the winners of the war, what makes you think this corroborated story is anything but that? How do any of us know what the truth of the matter was? How do we know this isn't the story Vince McMahon and his cronies WANTED you to believe to save face?

I ask these questions because the whole scenario just sounded a little too convenient for the case of Mr. McMahon. Look at the whole DVD, the same message is being drilled into your head, Why? Well from my experience, generally when someone wants you to believe one thing so insistently, that means there is something else they don't want you to know. So what it is that McMahon and Co. aren't letting us know?

I think that the real story is that this guy probably was owed money from McMahon, was put off from being paid, and got fed up with the run around and said "I want my damn money" and Vince responded as he did. It was unprofessional, there was probably a better way to handle it. I just find it rather odd and too convenient for the case of McMahon that this guy who they've painted as the biggest asshole on the planet, just for no reason goes and demands money from McMahon because he's the "Crazy" Ultimate Warrior and on and on. Sorry, but I'm not biting on that line.

Vince doesn't have the best reputation in the business either. At one time he even had to be bailed out of debt by his father because he was going around town on credit that he never made an attempt at paying back. People who knew his dad thought it was him doing all this and it made his dad look really bad to his colleagues, and was damaging to his family name, which is why he paid off the debts. Look at the situation with Bret Hart, how he owed Hart all kinds of money and how he handled that situation(Montreal and the events leading up to). Think of you we are talking about again, Vince McMahon. Why in God's green Earth would he tell you the truth of that matter if he in fact did owe Warrior money? If he was telling you the truth, why would he have worked SO hard to make sure you thought the worst of Ultimate Warrior? Common sense has to take a role here, and I am glad to deliver it to you.

I think that Vince did exactly what he was already obligated to do in paying off Warrior, but for his actions in going about getting paid and showing that Vince McMahon CAN be pushed around, he fired him to show who is boss, and make a statement to the rest of the locker room that HE is the one calling the shots and no one no matter how big can tell him when he is right or wrong.

 

[DirtyJosé]

WHY VINCE SHOULD HAVE PAID:

Warrior was pretty damn hot at the time. This wasn't the '92 Warrior, who was puking his guts out over Papa Shango. This was just after his world title reign, which is about the peak of his involvement with the company. Losing him last minute for arguably the 2nd biggest pay per view of the year is no small problem. There most certainly was a looming threat of low buys(depending how far off the show was from the day Warrior gave his ultimatum) and anger ticket holders possibly demanding refunds.

As the owner, McMahon certainly had to act in the best interest of the fans.

WHY VINCE SHOULD HAVE TOLD HIM TO WALK:

First of all, while the practice of attempting to strong arm some money out of McMahon isn't unique (see also: why no one knows who Nailz is) it certainly didn't help that it was shown that McMahon could be coerced into paying up. The message some got out of this was that if you aren't concerned with continuing your employment with the WWE, you could bilk him out of quite a bit of money if in the right situation (and indeed, this situation would play itself out again, by guys like Jeff Jarrett).

Secondly, McMahon does have to act in the best interest of the fans, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have found a work around. The OP's suggestion of Sid Justice was certainly a possible solution, and I'm there were a few other guys in back who could have picked up the ball. Some of them may even have been able to use that opportunity as a spring board to the top of the company. Any number of scenarios could have been concocted to explain the change in the card, and could have been a starting point towards developing some new feuds and storylines, instead of wasting it on a guy you knew you were going to fire as soon as fucking possible.

Paying off Warrior had long lasting repercussions in the locker room, and served to inspire WWE's clamp down on copyrights and intellectual property. I think there may have been a big stink about things from the fans initially, but that in the long run it would have been better to let Warrior walk out and instead show the boys in back that no man is above McMahon, and that extortion doesn't fly at the Titan Towers.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

I think he should have paid him, he should have told him he'll pay him after the fight and then fired him without paying him...that was a mistake, Warrior was really over at the time as well..but when you look back and think of the chances he was given, he really screwed it up for himself...

It does show Vince cares about the fans, to ahve Warrior in the match and to satisfy the fans...he did that for US...How ever much money Warrior was owed whether he was owed of not for his WrestleMania match, back then WWE were getting money throwed at them, but hey you never want to lose money do you??

Ware was given 2 more chance after this and he proved he was the same person.. leaving again randomely..

 

[luxferre]

From what iv'e heard Vince owed Warrior the $500,000 from Warrior's match with Savage at Mania that year. If your boss owed you that amount and was stalling on paying up wouldn't you do whatever you could to get it? I would.

Not saying warrior was right in doing what he did, but it was understandable given the amount in question.
Remember when Jarret held Vince up for $300,000 just to drop the I.C strap to chyna?
The business is about making money,if your'e not in it for that then poor fool you.

 

[Fansince84]

Now Warrior shouldn't have pulled off the pay or no show back in the day, he was arrogant and young. But I do have to make a point because so many people love to bash the Warrior yet he is one of the nicest guys if you meet him and he truly appreciates his fans more than many other great wrestlers. From one of his blogs on his site he writes....

"Of course, there’d been no reason for me to thank these people if there weren’t, first, the other people: the Ultimate Warrior fans. In YOUR case, it is not so much that I can’t say enough, it’s more that there are no words to describe the emotions I have when it comes to all of you. You were the best and you still are. One of the expressions I created many years ago still fits today: “Created by Destiny. Bonded by Belief.” How true it still is.

The Ultimate Warrior persona impacted all our lives in a positive and inspiring way and even as the years go by our affections for the experience and the bond that was built never fades away. Our lives are still powerfully influenced and our hearts are still warmed by the memories of Ultimate Warrior’s energy and determination and the statement he made. You drove hours from others cities, brought your own young children who were not yet even born when I was active in the business but have been turned onto Ultimate Warrior through the pictures, videos and stories you cherish, and you even flew from other countries to just smile, say hello, shake a hand, snap a few pictures, grab a couple of autographs. As many of you witnessed for yourself, you tugged at my heart until I was, often with moist eyes, wearing it on my sleeve.

Not just now as I write this but that whole day, there were several instances were there were not words to tell you how much it meant. I know you came to see me, but I need you ALL to know the honor of meeting you made an equal heartfelt and lasting impression. The only words to describe the fondness you shared is to tell you that you are the best — and you are better. You were better fans and you are better people. I will never forget what you meant to the success of the Ultimate Warrior and how much that experience we “lived” together still means to the living and learning I get to do in my everyday life. Thank you for being who you are. I know our paths are destined to cross again."

Now that is great coming from a wrestler that so many people love to bash. Love him or hate him he made a huge impact while he was around and really treated his fans great in person. Yes he no showed and left and came back and left and came back but he knows that he would be NOTHING IF IT WASN'T FOR HIS FANS and he admits it. You can also check out youtube videos of fans meeting him and see how nice he is to them. He might be a little nuts at times but he def cares about his fans.

 

[President Evil]

For those who think that theres another side to the Warrior-McMahon story at Summerslam 1991 think again.

From what Ive seen, yes Warrior was pissed when that self-destruction dvd came out, but he didnt offer "his side" of the story. He basically didnt have an excuse for what happened. Plus Hogan, Gene Okerlund, and Sgt Slaughter were all on the same page on this one. The evidence was too heavy here against Warrior.

Warrior got some fucking nerve to pull some shit like that. Mcmahon gave him the world. Mcmahon soon realized that Warrior wasnt the only face-painted muscle monkey on earth. And kicked him the fuck out.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

There were many other people who could have filled in... particularly who were near to debuting at that show.

Sid is one, but remember Ric Flair joined WWE at that time, now I would have had someone take out Warrior earlier in the show... Had Sid remain as ref and have Ric Flair as the mystery partner for Hogan... the "Dream Team" so to speak complete with "Real Worlds title belt... the two work together awkwardly at first but build momentum to some blazing hot tags before a Leg Drop/Figure Four combo to end the match... the show ends with Ric Flair and Hogan staring down with both their belts... BONG! The Undertaker comes out and attacks Justice...

 

[Fred R.]

For those who think that theres another side to the Warrior-McMahon story at Summerslam 1991 think again.

From what Ive seen, yes Warrior was pissed when that self-destruction dvd came out, but he didnt offer "his side" of the story. He basically didnt have an excuse for what happened. Plus Hogan, Gene Okerlund, and Sgt Slaughter were all on the same page on this one. The evidence was too heavy here against Warrior.

Warrior got some fucking nerve to pull some shit like that. Mcmahon gave him the world. Mcmahon soon realized that Warrior wasnt the only face-painted muscle monkey on earth. And kicked him the fuck out.

Warrior actually did reply to it after the dvd came out in one of his website rants.

"About holding you up for money, you got that wrong, too. Of course, it’s a fantasy you’ve created, so that makes it true in your twisted mind. There was an issue about a Wrestlemania 7 payoff, but the strong-arming being done was by you and your conniving financial thug at the time, Doug Sages, not me. Instead of being straightforward with me about what the payoff was going to be, you kept dragging out avoiding any discussion about it while Sages unethically concocted a counterfeit loan to me, which I knew nothing about till much later, say, around Summerslam time. How coincidental. When I called you on it, you duplicitously scribbled down and rushed me a letter praising me for my contributions to the company, my one-of-a-kind work ethic, and that you were proud to have me not just as a talent but know me as a friend -- and, then, Surprise! you pulled a 180 on me and courageously suspended me after the ‘91 Summerslam match by handing me a tough, condescending letter. You expected me to drop to my knees right then and lick one of the three balls you claimed you had, begging you to take me back, right there in that MSG locker room, right there in front of your adulterous ball licker at the time, Mrs. Emily Feinburg, (so you could show her, I guess, how big a man you were), but I told you that Emily was the one good at it and you wouldn’t be seeing me for quite some time. I didn’t lie. I got my bags, went to AZ, moved to NM and left you ill with worry about where I was. “Where’s MY Warrior?’ you boohooed for months. It is a flat-out Wizard of OZ fantasy that I ever held you or WWF up for money."

 

[Davekdc0064]

You know after watching both The Self Destruction" and two Warrior shoot interviews on youtube, I'm leaning towards believing Warrior in regards to Vince owing him money.
There's telling your side of the story, and then there's bashing to the point of near oblivion. It makes more sense to me, knowing what we do about Vince the business man, and Warrior the.....warrior that Vince owed him and Warrior had the attitude of "I'll just take my ball and go home if I don't get whats rightfully mine". If that (or something very similar) is the case, then hell yes Vince should have paid Warrior every cent.
Now Warrior probably should have found a different way of making his demand, as whether he was owed or not it was a dick move, but all in all if he was owed for a performance he was owed. Period.