Vince McMahon Talks About Current Ratings

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Getting Noticed By Management
Vince McMahon did a 2015 WWE fourth quarter earnings conference call today, and during the Q&A portion of the call Vince spoke about current WWE TV ratings.

He explained that the company is not as worried about TV ratings as they once were, and he added that while WWE TV ratings might be down, they are not as down as other shows which air on the same networks as WWE programming.

He also said people just aren’t watching as much TV as they used to, and while TV is still important to WWE, with all the social and digital content they now have, people are consuming content when they want to as opposed to when it airs on TV, which is very important to WWE.

Vince noted WWE used to “live and die” by TV ratings, but those days are gone, and we are in a new era of media.

He definitely speaks a lot of sense here. Ratings are down the world over for entertainment shows especially. The reason for that is the emergence of things like Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, HBO, and most recently, the WWE Network, where people consume what they want, when they want. the WWE Network has seen some good growth and the YouTube channel is also thriving. If anything, it's a feather in the cap of WWE that the show gets decent ratings at all. It speaks to the products longevity and staying power. Raw is still quite a successful show by the numbers, even if the ratings are less than half (or even a third) of what they used to be. Now, is it going to last 20 more years at the rate of it's ratings decline? Who knows. The show has a unique format and target audience, so it's difficult to compare the cancellations of past sitcoms, etc to Raw. But the situation isn't as drastic as some of us make it out to be. And the USA Network just took on Smackdown, so I don't think they're too displeased with WWE's production.

Yes, the product can obviously always be better. However, Vince's point is totally legitimate and the fact that they can still tout that they are still on top of the world despite lower ratings is what really makes his point. Some in depth analysis on this "new era of media" as it pertains to the WWE would make for a fascinating read.
 
Marginalizing the Ratings issue, He's right to an extent, but the networks still care about ratings. If Vince doesn't, they'll keep slipping and the Network isn't self sustainable yet.

The Ratings are plunging because the show isn't as interesting as it used to be. They're still very very relevant in the grand scheme of things.

Vince can't say it's a big deal, WWE Stock has already been dropping, Hell it dropped from 16.50 to 14.20 today, Imagine if Vince didn't damage control the Roman Reigns Era.
 
Marginalizing the Ratings issue, He's right to an extent, but the networks still care about ratings. If Vince doesn't, they'll keep slipping and the Network isn't self sustainable yet.

The Ratings are plunging because the show isn't as interesting as it used to be.

Vince can't say it's a big deal, WWE Stock has already been dropping, Hell it dropped from 16.50 to 14.20 today, Imagine if Vince didn't damage control the Roman Reigns Era.
I wouldn't put much into the stock price dropping today, stocks across the board are getting murdered as people are switching to government bonds.

They're in no danger of getting cut from USA, as they're still the highest rated program they have. The damage would be from reduced rates at the next contract renegotiation; remember, their last negotiation, the WWE didn't fare too well. What's important is how much their revenue from sources like the WWE Network and their deals with streaming companies have offset or overcome that loss in the TV deal.

What is really important to the WWE is maintaining RAW as a gateway to their other offerings. They need the exposure of television to be able to sell their network, live events, etc. That's not presently in any danger, but they need to keep enough people watching to have it make sense to USA Networks.
 
Vince is right. lower rating but still highest on USA and USA wants wrestling and WWE is the most popular, so they are in no danger. wwe isnt going anywhere anytime soon
 
To some extent, he's right because TV ratings are down across the board because there are so many various media outlets these days in which people can and do watch whatever shows they're into.

As to WWE's stock, it took a hit as well after the last quarterly financial report, yet surged in the days following. Something like 2 days after he gave the last quarterly report, the stock surged some 20% in a single day. When it comes to the stock market, it's almost like a living thing in that it's hard to predict what it will do at any particular time. I mean, I read over WWE's quarterly report and you'd think that, overall, the stock would be surging as there were some very strong numbers. The WWE Network is averaging roughly 1.25 million paying subscribers, it's been continuing to add tens of thousands of new subscribers with each financial report, revenue for 2015 was the highest in company history with $658.8 million, revenues for TV, house shows, the network and merchandise. I dunno, I'm not some sort of financial whiz and the stock market scares the crap outta me, so I have nothing to do with it and it's mostly because I just don't understand it.

When it comes to the corporate aspects of WWE, I have more confidence in Vince than I do when it comes to creative choices. TV ratings are down and they're important but, again, media is changing and has been changing significantly over the past few years especially. It's true that people aren't watching TV like they used to and they do watch stuff now pretty much whenever they feel like it. My 9 year old niece watches everything nowadays on her tablet or computer instead of TV and that's becoming the growing trend. I don't think it'll ever really replace TV, people will still watch TV, but the numbers won't be as they once were. It seems like only mega powerhouse shows like The Big Bang Theory and The Walking Dead aren't as heavily affected as most other shows.
 
Marginalizing the Ratings issue, He's right to an extent, but the networks still care about ratings. If Vince doesn't, they'll keep slipping and the Network isn't self sustainable yet.

The Ratings are plunging because the show isn't as interesting as it used to be.

Vince can't say it's a big deal, WWE Stock has already been dropping, Hell it dropped from 16.50 to 14.20 today, Imagine if Vince didn't damage control the Roman Reigns Era.

The WWE stock is not impacted by ratings. Besides the fact that the entire market has been slipping since August, the overall problem with the WWE stock right now is the same that it has always been - 25% of it is owned by short sellers. Basically, a quarter of the WWE stock is owned/borrowed by people w/ the sole intention of selling off the stock in massive quantities, causing the price to drop, with the intention of buying it back at the lower price. This makes the stock extremely volatile.

There are exceptions where the stock price drastically fell independent of short sellers. The most recent came in May 2014 when the WWE announced their new TV deal with Universal. The reason the stock fell so hard that day was because Vince McMahon guaranteed a minimum 100% increase on the prior TV deal, causing the stock to soar based on speculation When the new deal came in at a 50% increase, people bailed.

I can see how you'd think the ratings impacted the TV negotiations, but that's not necessarily true. ESPN pays MLS 15 times the amount that Universal pays WWE. MLS broadcasts average about 249,000 viewers on ESPN. Roughly 3.7 million people watched Monday Night Raw this week alone. So it isn't ratings that matter... it's the people that comprise the ratings that matter.

Networks pay big money for TV rights because it makes their advertising space more valuable. The issue with WWE is that 65.6% of its audience has a high school degree or less -- 70.4% of its audience has a household income of less than $35,000 per year. Those are the numbers the network cares about because those are the number that advertisers want to see. The unfortunate truth for the WWE is that the overwhelming majority of its fan base has almost zero buying power. This greatly reduces the value of the advertising space - which, in turn, greatly reduces the amount of money a network is willing to pay for the TV rights.

That's just one reason why ratings don't matter - and why they, in turn, have almost zero impact on the WWE stock.

Was this the case in 1998? Not so much. Sure, the buying power of the average fan was roughly equivalent to what it is now... but the TV ratings did a lot more back in the days of the Monday Night Wars. The most obvious effect had to do with the fact that the two companies were chasing the same advertisers. So if Nitro was destroying Raw in the ratings (which they were), then the advertisers were more likely to give their money to TNT than to USA -- which in turn would devalue the WWE in future negotiations with Universal. Additionally, the WWE was still relying more on a live events business model, wherein the majority of their money came from being on the road. Aside from the TV money, MNR essentially served as a 2-hour commercial for the live events they ran the rest of the week. If fewer people watched MNR, then it typically translated to fewer people attending the live events. So it hurt business all around.

In the past decade, the WWE shifted its business model. The majority of its live events profit comes in the 1st or 2nd quarter (depending on when WrestleMania is being held - March or April). The rest of the fiscal year is based more on a TV production business model. And while it does sound a bit contradictory to say that the WWE doesn't care about ratings despite operating the majority of its year under a TV production business model, there's a big reason that's the case.

OTT content is taking over cable TV. McMahon is right on so many levels when he says that people are changing the way they watch TV. Millennials are the first generation to grow up with DVRs. They're the first generation to grow up with the internet. And they represent the biggest demographic in the country. The viewing habits they grew up with - being able to watch whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted to watch it - coupled with their frugal spending habits (a proven result of carrying too much student debt) and being accustomed to instant gratification have caused millennials to abandoned cable for streaming services that are less costly and more accessible and convenient.

It's entirely possible, and reasonable, that the WWE foresees the trends of OTT vs Cable and is merely positioning itself to shift all programming to the network following the conclusion of this current TV deal. The break-even figure between putting Raw on the network vs putting it on USA is less than half the current audience. At the very least, the WWE is going to have some strong leverage in their next negotiation with Universal - regardless of the ratings.
 
Remember when Dixie Carter did that Youshoot live thingy where she was saying that "PPV was a dying model so we don't care about it" before the next sentence was "I'm just lucky to be making millions from it". We all laughed at her for talking complete bollocks?

This is Vince's version of Youshoot, except he feeds it to investors and they're nowhere near as gullible as a youshoot audience.

He's 70, ratings are dropping (which will cause issues when the tv deal comes up for renewal again) surely they can just make him a real life Jack Tunney now?
 
If Raw was must-see TV, people would be watching. The "people can watch TV wherever and whenever they want" argument is ultimately just an excuse for why ratings suck right now. That argument might be true, but in terms of pro-wrestling, everyone knows ratings follow the product. If the product was good, people would be watching it live instead of dvr'ing it and skipping three quarters of the show. I know I would.

The reality is, less and less people are tuning in weekly. Ratings have been on a downward trend since at least last year. Anybody who listens to this and believes it is really partial to Vince or the WWE, because I don't know how one can watch Raw and actually believe that wrestling is as popular as ever.
 
They're in no danger of getting cut from USA, as they're still the highest rated program they have. The damage would be from reduced rates at the next contract renegotiation; remember, their last negotiation, the WWE didn't fare too well. What's important is how much their revenue from sources like the WWE Network and their deals with streaming companies have offset or overcome that loss in the TV deal.

WWE still got their biggest TV deal ever.

On the thread topic, Raw is #1 on Monday nights when MNF is off the air. Smackdown is oftentimes #1, top 3 at a minimum. Raw and Smackdown's 260 hours of original scripted programming per year is unmatched across the cable spectrum. Granted, ratings aren't what they used to be. But relative to the current market, WWE is exceedingly robust.
 
Vince is correct in saying that people just aren't watching TV as much any more- the declining rating for the vast majority of entertainment shows proves this. There's only a few shows that haven't been affected by this. Personally, I very rarely watch much on TV unless there's something I cannot miss. I have both Netflix and WWE Network and I'd say I haven't watched a single minute of regular TV this last month.

People are consuming entertainment content and programmes via Netflix, their laptops, phones, YouTube, social media outlets etc. The changes have come around so rapidly, and WWE are at the forefront of it, being one of the most social brands in the world and launching their own subscription based network.

However, even though they've just had their most profitable year to date, Vince MUST still be concerned with the ratings. Its common belief (at least on this site) that WWE's current TV show sucks, and that's definitely contributing to the drop in ratings as well as the changing viewing habits of fans. If the show continues to remain sub-par, then people will stop watching current WWE programming altogether, and WWE can't hope to survive just from Network subscribers watching old content. They need to satisfy the modern TV fanbase too, and the current programming isn't doing that.
 
From everything we've read of Vince McMahon in years past, I would think......no surprise here......that what he says to the public and to his stockholders is one thing, and what he really thinks is another.

So, while he's probably quasi-sincere in his logical statement about TV ratings being off due to the impact of other forms of social media.....he probably still goes apeshit in private meetings in Stamford when he sees a dip in those ratings.

Depending on what mood Vince is in, he always sees reason......except when he doesn't.
 
I think Vince has a point. Personally, I don't watch TV live anymore and haven't in a while. I tend to watch both Raw and SmackDown on my DVR on Saturday's. I'm not sure how that kind of thing affects ratings. Raw is just too long to watch live. Why watch it for life 3 hours and 15-30 minutes (it goes over 3 hours every week) when I can skip all the bs and watch an hour of actual matches and story lines I care about later?

And SmackDown is just crap, I record it and skim through it in 30 minutes.

What's sad is that I probably spend the same amount of time watching total divas as I do Raw and more time than I spend watching SmackDown.

Honestly even NXT is starting to fall off. At first it moved along quickly and the guys at the top of the card made the main roster. It's was fresh and hit the reset button every could of months. Now Finn just seems like NXT's version of Cena. He and Baylee both need to get moved up. They are just far better than there opponents at this point. And the tag team division is pretty terrible now.
 
While we do stream alot more programmes hes deluded to say ratings dont matter walking dead i bet is the most streamed show on the internet but it atleast draws 10 million people an episode on tv. If the show was good enough the ratings would be higher it's as simple as that
 
I always saw conference calls as BS and the companies just tell you how everything is rosy but can't say there are issues or people would sell their shares. I don't think USA Network was too happy with Vince saying tv ratings don't matter. Advertisers are how USA pays the WWE for RAW. If less people are watching then that's less money sponsors will pay if their product is not viewed enough and giving them enough ROI.
 
If Raw was must-see TV, people would be watching.

People are watching. They're just not watching on TV.

Breaking Bad didn't top 3 million live viewers until the second half of its final season. And it didn't break 2 million until the first half of its final season. And if any show has been considered must-see in the last decade, it's Breaking Bad.

The amount of TV watched by 18-35 year olds has been steadily declining for years. It's not a quality thing; it's a culture thing. Raw certainly isn't as popular as it used to be, but the TV ratings don't even come close to painting the full picture.
 
Year 2016, i really dont remember when was the last time i watched TV "old school" style.

With internet, DVRs, On Demand, etc. People doesnt sit to watch something "live", except for sports.

Vince is right in this one, ratings as we know are a thing of the past, new ways of measure viewership and popularity should appear in the next few years to properly represent the real rating.
 
People are watching. They're just not watching on TV.


I should have been clearer. If WWE was must-see, people would be watching it live. Also, it's arguable that people "watch" Raw. Based on some of the comments here, half the show is skipped through by the 18-35 demo.

Breaking Bad didn't top 3 million live viewers until the second half of its final season. And it didn't break 2 million until the first half of its final season. And if any show has been considered must-see in the last decade, it's Breaking Bad.


This is a good argument. I'm not completely sold on the two being compared side by side though. I look at WWE as more of a "sport" than I do a TV show in relation to their programming. Look at the NFL. Ratings remain through the roof because fans want to watch football live, when it's on. Fans rarely stream football games the next day or dvr the games unless they absolutely have to. However, when it comes to the WWE, people don't seem to care enough to tune in on 9pm on Monday. Seriously, what are you doing at 9 o clock on a Monday that you can't watch Raw for a bit? Better product=better ratings. At least in my estimation.

Raw certainly isn't as popular as it used to be, but the TV ratings don't even come close to painting the full picture.

I'm not completely sold on this either. I think we're tricked into believing that droves and droves of people around the world still go crazy for WWE. Current ratings may not paint the full picture, but they are, at the least, tangible proof that WWE's stock with fans is dropping and has been for years.
 
If Raw was must-see TV, people would be watching. The "people can watch TV wherever and whenever they want" argument is ultimately just an excuse for why ratings suck right now. That argument might be true, but in terms of pro-wrestling, everyone knows ratings follow the product. If the product was good, people would be watching it live instead of dvr'ing it and skipping three quarters of the show. I know I would.

The reality is, less and less people are tuning in weekly. Ratings have been on a downward trend since at least last year. Anybody who listens to this and believes it is really partial to Vince or the WWE, because I don't know how one can watch Raw and actually believe that wrestling is as popular as ever.

I don't agree.

In Australia, for example, where I live, WWE RAW is on LIVE Tuesday at noon (that's based on the time difference between the USA and Australia). Now, most people can't see it live, because they are working or at school, meaning that few see it live.

Secondly, over here, we only get it on cable, and only 30% of homes have cable TV in Australia (as opposed to 90% in the USA), so you have to have pay-TV to see it. At least now with WWE Network and the internet, there are other options.

Hey, before 1998, the only time when we saw WWE was at 3am in the morning when one of our stations ran it between 1986-89. Then we got zero TV coverage for ten years and only kept in touch with it through wrestling magazines which were three months old.
 
What I think is that Vince McMahon is partially right as well as partially wrong. :shrug:

Partially Right
People really prefer other sources over TV nowadays like Mobiles, Tablets, Laptops etc. They can easily record it nowadays and see desired segments instead of watching full episode of Raw on TV. So People are still watching but prefering other sources over TV.

Partially Wrong
But still quantity of people watching it has decreased. Believe it or not. You can make any amount of lame excuses but the truth is truth. One more thing, People prefer recording so that they can view desired segments. But if WWE makes whole show watchable, people will surely tune in on TV. Women Wrestling in WWE is much of a break time for a majority of people due to bad projection of so-called divas. Put much efforts and you will see the results.

:devil:
 
This is a good argument. I'm not completely sold on the two being compared side by side though. I look at WWE as more of a "sport" than I do a TV show in relation to their programming. Look at the NFL. Ratings remain through the roof because fans want to watch football live, when it's on. Fans rarely stream football games the next day or dvr the games unless they absolutely have to. However, when it comes to the WWE, people don't seem to care enough to tune in on 9pm on Monday. Seriously, what are you doing at 9 o clock on a Monday that you can't watch Raw for a bit? Better product=better ratings. At least in my estimation.

The issue with this train of thought, where I totally see where you're coming from (especially as for 9/10ths of its history pro wrestling was presented as a legit sport) is that we know it isn't. It is a soap opera, a serial drama, set in the wrestling arena. People watch live sport in part because they would rather see it live, but in part because if they miss it, there's a realistic chance of them getting the result spoiled for them, on new shows, all over the Internet, etc. Secondly there's much more of a culture about watching live sport. Yet wrestling, except ft the major events or celebrity angles, you would struggle to have spoiled for you if you didn't watch it live unless you went on a wrestling website. So in a way there's a lot less pressure to watch it live.

Viewing trends have definitely changed. I know a handful of people who watch shows regularly on 'ordinary' tv, but most are happy to watch shows on OTT format like Netflix or the BBC iPlayer. Personally speaking, almost all the to I watch is on my tablet, mostly the iPlayer, All4, the WWE Network and Lucha Underground on Daily Motion/YouTube. (I like in England btw) - I do shift work so it works for me. And the demographic one step down from me (I'm 32), the 18-25 demo, there IS tons of evidence to suggest the way they consume their tv is similar to mine. Which, ultimately, is why WWE were so keen to launch the Network
 
Vince McMahon has a point, with what is available to viewers it's impossible to maintain to get to ratings that Wrestling had during the Monday Night Wars, that's not to say WWE isn't as popular, the likes of the Network, streaming etc. gains membership and viewers as well.

At the same time, if ratings continue to fall then perhaps WWE won't have as much bargaining tools next time the renewal comes round, financially it might not matter, we'll not know until it's time to cross that bridge.
 
WWE still got their biggest TV deal ever.

On the thread topic, Raw is #1 on Monday nights when MNF is off the air. Smackdown is oftentimes #1, top 3 at a minimum. Raw and Smackdown's 260 hours of original scripted programming per year is unmatched across the cable spectrum. Granted, ratings aren't what they used to be. But relative to the current market, WWE is exceedingly robust.

I thought it their new NBC deal was a disappointment.
 
People (myself included) don't care about WWE like they once did. Why should they? The product is boring, predictable, and monotonous.

People still watch it. Maybe not live but on Hulu, online, DVR, etc.

However IF Raw was good enough, people would watch it live and be excited for when it comes. In short, Raw isn't and people aren't.

How many other TV shows' ratings have dropped at the rate WWE has the last few years?
 
Bullshit excuse.

The show airs LIVE on USA it does not air LIVE on WWE Network or any where else.
The quality of live streaming is much better on TV than it is on a illegal website stream.

If people REALLY wanted to watch Raw they would watch it LIVE!. Streaming services were still going strong a year ago when WWE was doing much better in the ratings it wasn't until the disastrous Seth Rollins title reign that people started to leave in drones.

It is obviously a problem with WWE creative.
 
He's right to some extent. People aren't watching as much TV as they used to and, in the age of on demand content, he had his finger right on the pulse. I guess that why the WWE network is so imported to the WWE at the moment. Vince knows his figures, he always has. He's happy with his buys into his network and that's why he's not too bothered about TV ratings.

But if he was being honest with himself, I bet he would be glad to see his product doing much better on cable than it has been doing. And I bet he knows that, deep down, that comes down the way the WWE package has been presented recently. The fact of the matter is that there is still a thing named "must see TV". The WWE used to be that during the Attitude Era and as much as he wouldn't like to go back to the chaos of that Era, I'm positive he would love to be back on the cutting edge of TV.
 

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