I didn't see that one coming.
Sorry about that. I just like facts. It's not that I'm against the theory of National Healthcare. It's a sound idea. It's just that for a multitude of reason, that it is doomed to failure.
I don't see why. From the way Obama presented it, its going to save us more money, than anything.
My insurance is $80 a month. With the national plan, it will be over $200 a month. How the fuck does that save me money? And this bullshit idea that we are going to be able to keep that insurance after a national switch is ludicrous. The insurance companies will lose customers and be subject to more government interference and regulation, which will force them to raise their prices. This means, that at some point, I will be forced to switch as well. Let's hope I never get terminal, because some bureaucrat will be able to decide if it it cost effective to even treat me.
Just look at the prices on insurance these days. My father has to work two jobs, just to be able to pay for insurance.
My dad is on medicare. I'm going to explain how bad this system is in a little bit. Just wait.
Funnily enough. Neither does Obama, nor his Health Care plan.
He doesn't have a health care plan. He just endoreses one of the fifteen flowing through Congress right now. A little research would do you well here.
If you paid attention to what was said, Obama made it clear.
He has never made anything clear. Just like during the campaign he uses vague and empty rhetoric to make everything sound rosy. He is good at that, but the guy dodges more bullets than Neo, and the results aren't nearly as positive.
Citizens of the United States of America are the ONLY ones recieving this Health Care. No illigal immigrants will be offered, nor given the oprotunity to recieve the the National Healthcare benefits.
That's new, and you know it. It is a response to the failure of the town hall meetings, and he's trying to make it more appealing to those of the right that, as ordinary citizens, have made him look like a fool.
Sounds a bit silly. Insurance, and Healthcare is needed. What Obama is proposing isn't a 100% government ran Healthcare system. Its compitition to cause the insurance companies lower their extremely high rates.
OK, so you think that taking customers
away from insurance is going to drop prices? So, if Walmart bought less widgets, they would cost less? The bulk purchasing of medical care is how insurance companies keep prices down. The competition will last all of fifteen minutes before the insurance companies are forced to raise prices or shut down. This is what the left wants. They want to shut down industries that support the right while simultaneously making people more dependent upon the government. This is how they stay in power. Watch them lose 25-30 seats in congress next year and see how the American people are turning on this idea. Bill Clinton, who is exponentially smarter and more capable than Obama failed to pass this idea, and realized it in time to minimize the damage done politically.
Good health insurance (family) costs up to 500$ a month. Incase she didn't notice, she would be saving about 3500$ a year.
Costs me less than a $1000 a year. Public option is upwards of $2500 a year. Growing up, $2500 a year was about all my mom ever paid for me, her, and my dad, and until she moved out, my sister. A family of four will cost around $3500 a year. This, using my math skills is more. The only people paying $5000 a year are people who buy healthcare outside of a company plan. For this reason, I think the government should legalize co-ops, with no government intervention beyond removing a stupid regulation.
Which Obamas plan is to cut out Medicare entirely, and his budget on the plan is 90 billion dollars a year. He'll be saving 560 billion dollars a year.
He's not cutting medicare, he's basically extending. Do you know how Medicare works? My father, who is on medicare, deals with an insurance company, while the government pays for the insurance. He gets medication for 5% of cost, until he reaches a certain cost. At that point, he has to spend $5000 of his (my) money on medication before the government kicks back in. My co-pay for an office visit, on private insurance, is $15. His, on medicare, for the elderly, poor, and destitute, is $25. The government plan is inefficient, too costly, and quite a burden on the poor. My father's health does not allow him to work, and my mother, who was retired, had to take a job at fucking Macy's to help me help him pay for his health care. There are three months a year when they have to tap into their retirement money just to pay for medication, and this is WITH my help. Imagine if I didn't have a good job, like so many people who try to help their parents manage this inefficient system.
In 10 years time, its said to only have spent up to 900 billion dollars. Which is less than 2 years of that we spend on Medicare according to your numbers.
You are completely fucking brainwashed by that stupid fucking speech. The CBO, which scores policy initiatives for budget considerations, has estimated the cost to be roughly a trillion dollars a year. They know better than Obama and his staff of brainwashed speech writers. Believe me, this is just another instance where someone should have called him a liar. You need to do some research Milky, and not take this lying President at his word. What exactly has Obama come through on so far to make you believe that this won't be a massive failure? Milk is cheaper, that doesn't mean he can manage healthcare. Furthermore, one of his czars is the top in his field.....population control. Please don't tell me that this is the President you want running healthcare when your parents get to be as sick as mine.
Canada's Healthcare plan is entirely diffrent compared to what Obama is trying to get passed through. What Obama is trying to get passed through is the ending of the monopoly set from Insurance companies of today.
A list of American Healthcare Providers:
* AIG
* Allstate
* American Automobile Association
* American Family Insurance
* American Income Life
* American National Insurance Company
* Amica
* Arbella
* Assurant Employee Benefits
* Auto-Owners Insurance
* CapitalOne
* CNA Financial
* Colonial Life
* Commerce Insurance Group
* Country Financial
* Chubb Corporation
* Encompass
* Erie Insurance Group
* Esurance
* Evergreen USA RRG
* Farmers Insurance
* GEICO
* Genworth
* GMAC Insurance
* Hanover Insurance
* The Hartford
* Independent Health
* Infinity Auto Insurance Company
* John Hancock Insurance
* Liberty Mutual
* Merchants Insurance Group
* Metropolitan Life Insurance Company
* Mutual of America Life Insurance Company
* Mutual of Enumclaw
* Mutual of Omaha
* Nationwide Insurance
* New York Life Insurance
* OneBeacon Insurance Group
* Pemco
* Principal Financial Group
* Progressive
* Prudential Financial
* Regence Group
* Response
* Safe Auto Insurance Company
* Safeco
* Safeway Insurance Group
* Selective
* Shelter Insurance Companies
* Standard Insurance Company
* State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance Company
* Symetra Financial
* The Travelers Companies, Inc.
* TIAA-CREF
* Unitrin Direct Auto Insurance
* USAA
* Westfield Insurance
How the fuck is this a monopoly? Do you even fucking know what a monoploy is? How is this not competition? There is enough competition as it is. I'm sorry that some people can't afford the service, but there are ways to make it available to them without a government takeover of the industry.
Hes trying to get some compitition, from the government, to lower the prices for EVERYONE.
You don't understand what you're writing about. You're basing it all on one speech, which was full of vague misinformation and contradictory made up "evidence." There is a reason Congressman Wilson called him a liar. It's because he is.
Well, this thread was resurrected and I feel I shall input my new and improved idea on the matter. While taking a shot at one of FTS' points and another dude's as well. Because it's what I do. Bustin' the chops, as it were.
Just do better than Milky. That was entirely too easy.
My idea, while I would like to argue was mine and mine alone, was inspired from another gentleman. Why not just expand Medicare out to everyone?
Because Medicare is entirely inefficient and wasteful government bureaucracy.
The overhead of Medicare is a fraction of that of the humongous insurance companies.
That's not true. Government has never run anything as efficiently as private industry.
http://www.cahi.org/cahi_contents/resources/pdf/CAHI_Medicare_Admin_Final_Publication.pdf
This article basically states that government reports of Medicare and Medicaid ignore the administrative costs, or the money they spend running the industry and paying the insurance companies to dole out the allowed list of medications and procedures chosen by the government. Yes, Razor, the government is lying to you. The
true cost of private insurance is roughly 2/3 of the actual cost of Medicare.
The system is entirely sufficient, in that you don't hear of old and poor people dying of cancer because their Medicare refused to fund their treatment. Expanding it out to whomever needs it will most likely raise costs, but that's what a Democrat does.
Why not lift the regulations that allow private companies to offer co-op style plans, which allow people to join a group plan, similar to an employer offered plan, to share costs amongst users, and allow an entity which is trying to gain profits to run an efficient system.
Go into power, raise taxes, and raise funding for Education, Medicine, and the Poor. You don't have to spend outrageously like Obama is starting to, (He's only trying to channel FDR guys. Now he just needs a World War to pull us out of the funk...shit...
), but damn it all. You act as if you didn't know a Democrat would spend money.
1. FDR was a terrible President, who allowed Pearl Harbor to happen in orderto hide the failure of The New Deal.
2. Maybe if he keeps encouraging sojourns into Pakistan, he'll get his war.
3. Just because you put more money into entitlement programs does not mean that you are making them better. Democrats also like to add massive bureaucracies to run these entitlements, raising administrative costs.
Looking at education as an example, Republicans have always been in favor of giving block grants to school districts to be spent as they see fit, however, Democrats like to mandate where every penny is spent. The saying that all politics are local is never more apparent. Individual districts know where the money needs to be spent. Under Bill Clinton, who I like, billions were spent on the internet and computers in schools with not enough teachers and crumbling walls.
Really FTS? How is this any different from when a conglomerate tells you they dont' think you need a experimental procedure or expensive medication? This argument is so damn faulty, I'm almost insulted you used it.
Medicare is refusing to pay for knee surgery for my father, and instead gave him three options, a $4200 cocktail of shots that they don't cover, acupuncture, and amputation. Please, deal with the system for a bit before making generalizations about its greatness.
I'm going to let you handle your debate with someone else without helping him.
I just want you to know how inefficiently the government runs Medicare, and help you to know that Obama's speech was full of lies and misinformation, much like the rest of his administration. He doesn't want to run GM, but he is. He wants to close Guantanamo, but he won't. He ended the Iraq war by following the schedule Bush laid out before he left office.
But hey, Milk is half price, so, ummm, awesome.
