Undertaker and the IC Championship

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

Should Taker hold the Intercontinental Championship before he retires?

He’s not a Triple Crown champion, he’s never held the IC belt before. I was shocked when I first came across this today (hadn’t really ever thought about it) but then I thought back and I’m not shocked. Undertaker was a World Champion when he debuted. He was always going to go on and win it without needing the ‘stepping stone’ of the IC Championship. He held the Tag belts with Kane at one stage but he’s still an IC title away from becoming a Triple Crown Champion.

Of course Taker doesn’t need the IC title, he’s been over for decades. But, I ask you if he would help build the IC title. I for one wouldn’t mind seeing Undertaker get the IC belt and hold it for a good 6 months. Be dominant as usual and then have him put over someone deserving. It could do wonders for both the title and whoever he puts over. It would keep him from the World Championship scene and it would make Undertaker a Triple Crown Champion.

I mean, when you look at the list of Triple Crown Champions you see names like Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Ric Flair and so many more. Even guys like Jeff Hardy, CM Punk, Rey Myseterio and Taker’s own “brother” is on this prestigious list. The fact that his name is missing is sad in a way, it doesn’t hurt his career in anyway but it would be nice to see his name there.

Well, what’s your thoughts on the Undertaker having a run with the Intercontinental Championship?

 

[klunderbunker]

I don't see the point of it really. Taker isn't the kind of guy that needs the IC Title. He had a feud with Goldust for it back in like 96 and it just felt awkward. Taker has like 7 world title reigns or something like that. Guys on that level don't go down to the levels of Dolph Ziggler. Now a feud with those guys to bring them up is fine, but the IC Title just doesn't fit there. Taker is bigger than all titles and there isn't much point to having him do anything but go after the world title. He follows different rules and he's earned the right to be. He doesn't need the title.

 

[YEDemon]

I agree. Taker doesn't need the IC Title. To have him feud for it would be a joke, and almost a disservice to the Big Man. He's been a main eventer for almost twenty years, and you want to have him go down to the secondary championships that the WWE has only just begun to rebuild in the past year or so? Yeah, it wouldn't be believable. Hell, Taker has said before in one of his promos that he neither needs nor wants the gold at this point because he is beyond it. He goes for the gold because he knows it will make people come after him. The streak and the gold are the only reasons people will choose to fight him.

It is somewhat sad that Taker will not be on the list of Triple Crown champions, but when you think about it, it's really not that surprising, and to try and remedy that fact at this point is not going to work.

 

[M. Winters]

I think the IC title would be completely pointless at this stage of his career. He's already penciled into the hall of fame, the IC title would only hurt his legendary status at this point IMO.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

I don't see the point of it really. Taker isn't the kind of guy that needs the IC Title. He had a feud with Goldust for it back in like 96 and it just felt awkward. Taker has like 7 world title reigns or something like that. Guys on that level don't go down to the levels of Dolph Ziggler. Now a feud with those guys to bring them up is fine, but the IC Title just doesn't fit there. Taker is bigger than all titles and there isn't much point to having him do anything but go after the world title. He follows different rules and he's earned the right to be. He doesn't need the title.

True, he certainly doesn’t need it and I can see what you mean by it becoming awkward. But I can still see it working in some cases. What if McIntyre had feud over the title with Taker? I think that would have potential in working. I don’t know, I’m certainly more on the side of it wouldn’t work but something in me would like to see it for some reason. It wouldn’t hurt him to carry a lower tier title and it would be nice to see him as a Triple Crown Champion.

As I said he certainly doesn’t need the IC title, and he doesn’t need to become a Triple Crown Champion to retire as a legend but I just wouldn’t mind seeing it is all.

 

[Dhays9]

I feel that the Undertaker in no way needs it. When someone mentions The American Badass a.k.a The Undertaker everyone knows that your speaking about the legend of the buisness.

However, on the other spectrum we have the IC Title which needs someone with the status of The Undertaker. I'm Stating this for the fact that when someone thinks of the IC title today no one thinks of The Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin. We think of those who have had it and seen where there careers have gone. Either no where or demoted to FCW or outta WWE for one reason or another. Therefore, if you give the IC title to The Undertaker it is possible to give it that auora of a legitimate title. The crowd would figure if The Undertaker goes after the title than it must be important and would elevate whoever he went after and the superstars who won the title to come. This would make the mid-card an important and intergal part again. Instead of squash matches and make it more important.

 

[The Crock]

This would drop down Undertaker to such a low level, that honestly, it would kill any sort of "immortality" he had. So that being said, no, he should not hold the IC Belt. Most pro wrestlers don't care about being Triple Crown champions, especially people who have accomplished as much as 'Taker has. Honestly, who gives a shit if he's ever held the IC Championship? The man is 18-0 at 'Mania. This is completey insignificant to 'Taker... And it should stay that way.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

This would drop down Undertaker to such a low level, that honestly, it would kill any sort of "immortality" he had.

How can you honestly say that it would take him to such a low level. The Undertaker is always going to be super over and a run with a non world championship certainly isn’t going to hurt that. He’s one of the few guys that could carry the IC title in a feud as if it’s a world title feud.

Honestly, who gives a shit if he's ever held the IC Championship? The man is 18-0 at 'Mania. This is completey insignificant to 'Taker... And it should stay that way.

I don’t care whether he holds it or not, he’s always going to be a huge legend of the business and that’s my point. You said it yourself, he has the WM streak and he’s been main eventing for near 20 years. In no way would carrying the title ruin his career or tarnish his legacy.

Picture Taker holding the IC belt and having a great feud with someone like McIntyre or a heel Christian. It’s a feud that could be way better than Jericho/Mysterio last year. Taker would make people want to watch that feud, a feud that is centered around a belt that has lost a lot of prestige over the years. People would watch, the belt would become popular again and his opponent would have a great chance at getting over.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea.

 

[The Brain]

I really don't think Taker should ever hold the IC title. There is a certain style and image I picture for the IC title and Taker isn't it. I'm not a fan of big men holding the IC title. It felt strange when Kane had it. Also I'm not crazy about a former world champion going for the IC title. That is a step back. Triple H holding the IC title in 2001 did not feel right at all. I think Taker would be even more strange. Can you picture Hulk Hogan holding the IC title in 1991? That would just be wrong. I feel the same way about Taker.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

I really don't think Taker should ever hold the IC title. There is a certain style and image I picture for the IC title and Taker isn't it. I'm not a fan of big men holding the IC title. It felt strange when Kane had it. Also I'm not crazy about a former world champion going for the IC title. That is a step back. Triple H holding the IC title in 2001 did not feel right at all. I think Taker would be even more strange. Can you picture Hulk Hogan holding the IC title in 1991? That would just be wrong. I feel the same way about Taker.

I disagree. If the performer is able to take the title and run with it in order to put someone (or the belt) over then it works. Jericho and Mysterio did wonders for the belt last year and it continued until Mysterio was suspended. He was working to put Ziggler over but then it all fucked up.

The whole point of my idea for Taker to hold the title is 1. He helps out the title and who ever he works with around it and 2. He becomes a Triple Crown Champion.

Now, I'm not really worried about whether or not he becomes a Triple Crown Champion or not, he's always going to be a huge draw and a HOF inductee one day. The title won't hurt his legacy in anyway. I do however want to argue that Taker could pull off a successful feud with the belt and could put both the belt and who ever he works with over without losing any credibility he had.

 

[Chill]

I wouldn't see the harm in Taker going after the IC Title to be frank, in fact I think it'd be refreshing to see him feud with a young mid carder and help get them over. Imagine if Ziggler eventually beat Taker to win his second IC Title, it would do wonders for Dolph's credibility and it wouldn't hurt Taker that much because of his reputation and accomplishments. I understand some people might vomit at the thought of The Undertaker losing to a guy like Dolph Ziggler but that's only because WWE have afforded him 'God -like' treatment the last few years, but all I'm saying is that a one off feud in the mid card could be different for the fans and it could really get the mid carder over in a big way if done right. So yes, I agree with hArdyPUNKmArk, but the belt on Taker and let's see if he can give whoever he works with a chance to make a name for themselves...

 

[Jack-Hammer]

To be honest, I'd love to see The Undertaker go after the IC title. I've only seen Taker have one IC title match in all the years I've watched the WWE and it was on Raw against Jeff Jarrett. He'd hit the Tombstone and the Roady, AKA Road Dogg, interfered and got Jarrett disqualified. Other than that, Taker has never been in the IC title scene and I'd like to see it personally because it could lead to some really fun and interesting match ups. Plus, solid feuds with Taker could elevate the likes of Dolph Ziggler or Kofi Kingston through the roof.

Looking at it from another point of view, having Taker in the IC title scene could be seen as a major demotion for the Dead Man. Taker has been consistently in the main event picture to one degree or another since the late 90s. On the other hand, it didn't seem to hurt Ric Flair any back when he won the IC title.

At any rate, I highly doubt that such a thing will happen. I wouldn't be surprised to see Taker get one more run with the WHC by the end of this year. Before he retires, Taker will ultimately have at least one more world title run at some point. When you're an 8 time World Champion, being a "Triple Crown Champion" doesn't really seem to be all that important.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

The Undertaker at this stage of his career is a person that belongs in the Main Event scene. He is a person that cannot drop down a division like Mysterio or Jericho and take hold of the Intercontinental Championship as there would be no way to logically book him losing it, considering disqualifications and such can't change the hands the title is being held by. The IC Title would hold him down and he would bring nothing for the belt at all... so there really isn't a point to him claiming the stake.

If Undertaker was someone like Ric Flair that would continue to wrestle for another 10 years and slowly yet surely fall back down the card by allowing the youth to take over, then he'd be a viable person to challenge and possibly win the title. Truth is though, Taker won't be getting to that point of his career due to the amount of nagging injuries that he has sustained and the amount of damage he puts himself through after putting on solid match after solid match. So no, the IC title isn't something he needs to achieve.

 

[Doctor_What]

I remember a few years ago 2001 I beleive Taker won the Hardcore Title. It just didn't seem right. I feel if he won the IC title at this stage of his career it would be as pointless as his Hardcore title win was back then. He doesn't need it and it would do nothing for him.

 

[Ferbian]

It honestly doesn't matter if he wins the championship or not. If we're discussing this purely because we want to see Undertaker as a Triple Crown champion, I would say it's ridiculous. And that's nothing against your post or idea Hardypunkmark. However it is a point against the fact that Undertaker really doesn't need a championship anymore, probably shouldn't even have one.

Undertaker is another version of Shawn Michaels in the way that he sure doesn't need any championship to be legitimate and over. Hell he doesn't even need to win every feud, except for his Wrestlemania feuds obviously. So to give him an Intercontinental championship to add something to his resume, to further his legacy obviously - Well that's, like I said, ridiculous.

Leave the younger guys who actually benefits from the championship to having that belt, and contending for it. Undertaker sure could add some legitimacy to the victories and such, and credibility. However it can be accomplished easily by themselves.

Undertaker, like many other true main event wrestlers, does not need to be bumped down to the mid-card to help elevate it, or to build anything of their legacy. Undertaker is just like Triple H, John Cena, Randy Orton and Edge as primary ones, we will never see them step down to the mid-card. Jericho, Big Show and Rey Mysterio are there for that, legitimate upper mid-carders / lower main event wrestlers. They're there to solve that problem.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

It honestly doesn't matter if he wins the championship or not. If we're discussing this purely because we want to see Undertaker as a Triple Crown champion, I would say it's ridiculous. And that's nothing against your post or idea Hardypunkmark. However it is a point against the fact that Undertaker really doesn't need a championship anymore, probably shouldn't even have one.

Undertaker is another version of Shawn Michaels in the way that he sure doesn't need any championship to be legitimate and over. Hell he doesn't even need to win every feud, except for his Wrestlemania feuds obviously. So to give him an Intercontinental championship to add something to his resume, to further his legacy obviously - Well that's, like I said, ridiculous.

Leave the younger guys who actually benefits from the championship to having that belt, and contending for it. Undertaker sure could add some legitimacy to the victories and such, and credibility. However it can be accomplished easily by themselves.

Undertaker, like many other true main event wrestlers, does not need to be bumped down to the mid-card to help elevate it, or to build anything of their legacy. Undertaker is just like Triple H, John Cena, Randy Orton and Edge as primary ones, we will never see them step down to the mid-card. Jericho, Big Show and Rey Mysterio are there for that, legitimate upper mid-carders / lower main event wrestlers. They're there to solve that problem.

Great post.

I agree with everything you've said. But, from the first few posters I got the feeling that most believe it would hurt Undertaker which is what I'm mainly trying to argue against because I don't think his legacy/career would be tarnished by an IC run at this stage of his career. Yes Ferbian, if they put the title on him simply to make him a Triple Crown Champion then I agree it would be ridiculous. I wasn’t saying I want him to have the title so he can be become one, I just thought about him and the title when I realised he wasn’t a Triple Crown Champion which led me to post this discussion to see what people thought about Taker holding the IC title today.

Look, I can accept that it’s not going to happen but I do believe that Taker could take the title and put on a great feud, lose to a deserving up and comer and still walk away with the exact same amount of credibility. The title would not hurt his career at all.

I like your point though about having guys like Jericho and Mysterio who can drop to that level for a few months to help out but can still be put into the main event comfortably. You’re right about guys like Triple H, Cena and Orton being like Taker in terms of them always being in the main event but don’t we want to see different things in the WWE? Don’t we want to see some creative differences in the current product? I would argue that having someone like Taker (who has never held the title before) win the IC Championship would be a breath of fresh air for that division and would provide a story a lot of people would undoubtedly be interested in. It would create a buzz for the title, people would be into it.

 

[darbare]

who cares if he isnt a triple crown champion.....the first title he won was the world title...when guys usually do that they dont dip down....kind of like Batista....he doesnt need the IC title for anything....he is above it....hell he is even above the world title really....

 

[Ferbian]

I agree with everything you've said. But, from the first few posters I got the feeling that most believe it would hurt Undertaker which is what I'm mainly trying to argue against because I don't think his legacy/career would be tarnished by an IC run at this stage of his career. Yes Ferbian, if they put the title on him simply to make him a Triple Crown Champion then I agree it would be ridiculous. I wasn’t saying I want him to have the title so he can be become one, I just thought about him and the title when I realised he wasn’t a Triple Crown Champion which led me to post this discussion to see what people thought about Taker holding the IC title today.

Yeah I don't see how people could possibly think it would hurt him in any way. Sure it would mean he's in the mid-card fighting for a championship he's far above. But other than that, it adds to his legacy, but he doesn't need to be down there. If he needs to hold a championship at all it's the world titles, and only the world titles.

Undertaker however is in a position where creating new stars would have to be his focal point. So the intercontinental championship shouldn't even be in WWE / Undertaker's thoughts, never should have. Undertaker was the kind of character that just needed to be shot to the stars, and done quickly. He was dominant, always have been, so they made him WWE champion, which was the right move. Not making him Intercontinental champion.

Look, I can accept that it’s not going to happen but I do believe that Taker could take the title and put on a great feud, lose to a deserving up and comer and still walk away with the exact same amount of credibility. The title would not hurt his career at all.

Anything involved Undertaker is bound to create some kind of decent to great feud, so of course him holding the Intercontinental championship would start a great feud. However I'm not sure who would be facing him, none of the mid-carders currently look anywhere near the position that they'd have a chance in hell to fight Undertaker and even survive. He showed leading up to Wrestlemania 26 how he can decimate 4 mid-carders (Hart Dynasty and Cryme Tyme). Why would he ever possibly have trouble with Kofi, Christian, Hardy, Ziggler, MVP or any of the otherwise useless mid-card talents Smackdown holds right now?

I never once said the title would hurt his career, of course it would help his career in terms of legacy and resume. However he doesn't need it, the mid-card doesn't need Undertaker's presence. The main event needs his presence, there's plenty of talent to be made up there in the main event, rather than what can be made by the mid-card themselves down in the mid-card. Jack Swagger and CM Punk are 2 to be build within the Main Event for now - Enter Undertaker.

I like your point though about having guys like Jericho and Mysterio who can drop to that level for a few months to help out but can still be put into the main event comfortably. You’re right about guys like Triple H, Cena and Orton being like Taker in terms of them always being in the main event but don’t we want to see different things in the WWE? Don’t we want to see some creative differences in the current product? I would argue that having someone like Taker (who has never held the title before) win the IC Championship would be a breath of fresh air for that division and would provide a story a lot of people would undoubtedly be interested in. It would create a buzz for the title, people would be into it.

I'm not saying we shouldn't encourage the possibility for difference in the product. However would you ever see it believable that any of the true main event wrestlers is even remotely worthwhile in the mid-card? The mid-card where they would practically be able to murder each and every one in the card. Especially looking at Randy who won the feud with Kofi, an upper mid-carder, successful one at that. John Cena who have defeated half The Nexus in single competition at times, Undertaker who is, well Undertaker. Triple H who is above practically anyone, and proved it with one of the current main event wrestlers, Kane (2002 I believe, Intercontinental champion vs World Heavyweight Champion?).

No, none of them would be remotely believable in there. Or make anything worthwhile down there, other than making themselves look too good, or if not, they would actually get hurt in their credibility. Undertaker and Chris Jericho are practically the two only ones in WWE right now that does not get hurt from jobbing to anybody. Shawn Michaels was among those people as well. And that just shows, that while Undertaker doesn't really get hurt from going down there, would he? Absolutely not, because he doesn't need it.

Besides Undertaker winning the Intercontinental championship for the sake of creative difference in the product, well it would have the IWC screaming in anger because Undertaker doesn't need to be in the mid-card, much less the champion when WWE, as well as many others would agree that others need the titles more. Although I'm not sure WWE is 100% of others needing it more, I'm sure they would rather push a youngster, than further a great legacy what would mean very very little with that title reign.

 

[Calum.AOS]

Wasn't there a storyline afew years back about Ric Flair trying to get the IC title for some sort of "crown" status, I recall Triple H being involved somewere (apologies if I am mistaken)

I think the only way WWE could have Undertaker as a belivable IC champion would be to acknowledge that he is only 1 title away from being a triple crown winner. Or, have a new talent (possibly Mcintyre) get the IC title back, then challenge Taker with the belt on the line.

I agree that it may possible "demote" The Undertaker slightly, but imagine the push that would follow if a new talent beat him for the belt?

 

[andyplatinum]

The only way I can see this happening is if he wins it along with the world title. However for that, he'll need to have a long run on smackdown, instead of going away and then making a comeback every 3 months...

 

[kcordloh]

This thread really made me laugh, because the thought that holding the IC Title would damage the Undertaker is ridiculous. As for him being able to mop the floor with anyone, doesn't that mean if someone feuds with him and mops the floor with him they are instantly "made"?

Imagine The Undertaker is banned from going after the WHC (who knows why). So he decides to pursue the IC Title, and feuds with Dolph. After a DQ in the first match, Dolph beats Undertaker clean as a freshly wiped baby's bottom. And then does it again. Kinda like how Batista went from "eh" midcarder with little credibility (no major wins to speak of besides early 2005 Kane and Viscera and Rhyno) to instantly forever over with his 3 wins over HHH.

This whole notion of someone becoming a joke because someone has their number is hogwash. Everyone has their weakness, and just like WCW passed on an opportunity to make Goldberg's weakness technical wrestlers (could destroy the NWO, but Benoit/Hart types usually won) WWE let's their wrestlers like HHH, Undertaker, Cena become unbeatable.

 

[SpoodBeest]

It would be a good thing if Undertaker actually went lower in the card and a feud for the IC title against Dolph Ziggler. Could you imagine what it could do for the career of Ziggler if he were to defeat Taker clean on at least one occasion I'm sure that would be a major thing. Eventually Taker would win a match and the title to complete his legacy and follow through with a triple crown title but it would be beneficial to have him drop the title right back to Dolph after a very short title run.

This of course is all wishes and dream coming from the mind of an internet fan, but it would be great to see Undertaker work with and put over mid-card talent and who better to work with than Dolph Ziggler who is a mid-carder on the rise. But he won't much like I don't see John Cena ever becoming a triple crown winner. The two will stick to the main event positions they have on each of their brands and stay their consistently for a good while. But Taker having a run in the mid-card battling for the IC title would end up doing more harm than good for the champion Dolph Ziggler, I'm just saying.

 

[Sasori]

What kind of a mid carder could even beat 'Taker for the title!?!? He's never lost in a fluke roll up, only via interference and DQ.

'Taker is also above the title as people pointed out, he also wouldn't be a fighting champion at this day in age he makes a Smackdown appearence like what? Every 4 months?

So NO 'Taker should not be the IC champ at this day and age, maybe somewhere in the '90s but not now. Not ever.

 

[YEDemon]

Even if they did ban him from going after the title, do you really see him listening to whoever banned him. Hell, Taker has tombstoned Vickie and abducted Teddy Long at different points in the past two years. Banning him isn't gonna work.

Yeah, Taker is way too far gone to try and move him down to the midcard. Taker has never been midcard and never will be.

 

[hArdyPUNKmArk]

Yeah, Taker is way too far gone to try and move him down to the midcard. Taker has never been midcard and never will be.

Of course Taker will never be seen as mid card. That’s the whole point of possibly having him feud over the IC title against a mid carder. Undertaker being the huge draw he is would be able to do wonders for a superstar trying to break out of the mid card into the main event. Someone asked who could beat the Undertaker, guys like McIntyre come to mind. He’s someone who would be able to put on a great IC title feud with Taker to be eventually put over.

I like the idea of having McIntyre (as an example) holding the IC title when he challenges Undertaker and puts the belt on the line. That way Taker isn’t really going after the title, someone’s bringing the offer to him.

Look, I know that Undertaker is beyond the IC title and will probably never hold it but I find the idea interesting and think it would work if booked right, that’s all.