Underrated: Buff Bagwell or Raven

[BillAlfonso]

Here's my question, who was more underrated, Buff Bagwell or Raven? Raven was a good worker and was solid on the mic but his gimmick was sick and unique in the business that it was all he needed which you can say for a lot of the top stars in the industry. Buff Bagwell was a great heel, imo, and that's where he really hit his stride. His whole "Notorious B.I.G.(Big Poppa) & Puff Daddy/Scott Steiner(Big Poppa Pump) & Buff Bagwell(Buff Daddy) gimmick was amazing. I know that he's regarded as a tag team specialist but he did manage to win the titles with 4 different guys.

 

[takerfan24]

Raven. hes been in ecw and he was great but in tna he seemed like a guy who came into tna just to get paid so he could feed his family. buff bagwell was a great wrestler but i think raven was better

 

[douce1973]

Buff had "the stuff" - but his star was tarnished because of his apparent backstage attitude. If I had the booking reigns on a promotion, he'd definately be one of my top heels - provided he kept his attitude in check.

But my top heel would be Raven. This man, even with all of his "medicinal" issues, lived and breathed for the next great storyline. When given the chance, he could conceptualize some great long lasting feuds. Do you think Tommy Dreamer was the creative driving force for their years long fued...I don't think so. As a booker, I would have loved to hear Raven's ideas on a long heel run as Champ and test his ability to keep it fresh creatively.

Quote the Raven.....

 

[the420something]

Raven hands down. Buff Bagwell's biggest claim to fame is that he was in the nWo. Raven made people care about Tommy Dreamer, could could a better promo sitting on his ass, in every company he was in he had a defining match type that would showcase both him and his opponents very well. I get the argument that most of his memorable matches were gimmick matches. But Raven is a former ECW World Heavyweight Champ(back when it ment something),a US champion,and NWA World Champion. But IMO his ability to start/lead stables is nothing short of impressive.

Raven's Nest
The Flock
Seretonin
The Gathering

While I admit to giving the F the ratings back in the day, When I flipped over it always felt Buff was nothing more than a male diva. And It should stand for something that Bagwell had no solo success, and recieve no major reaction in any promotion not called WCW.

Raven wins with an Evenflow DDT.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

Raven.

Buff Bagwell had a GREAT look....but he really didn't bring anything else to the table. His mic skills weren't all that good, and I can't remember one outstanding match he had. Without his physique, Buff Bagwell would've never seen any spotlight in the world of pro wrestling.

Raven's character was(and still is sometimes) very unique. His promos could be so dark and creepy. Raven isn't bad in the ring, and at least he can be entertaining.

 

[Calderownz]

Raven.

It's actually closer then some might think. The word underrated means that the majority rates him lower than he should be. In some ways, that relates more to Bagwell then Raven. Buff isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be.

At the same time, for as much Internet praise as Raven gets, he was still highly under-utilized and isn't nearly half as credited as he should be.

So, in some ways, it's a tie. The tie breaker comes with the fact that Raven was better in my opinion.

 

[INDYjon22]

I actually like Buff Bagwell more, but the simple fact is Raven was more underrated. He could cut some of the greatest promos in the entire business, in his prime. And he was a very good wrestler. His matches in ECW, WWF, and the early days of TNA. His hardcore matches with Rhino in WWF and TNA are still some of my favorite matches to watch. The same goes for his match at Wrestlemania 17 with Big Show and Kane. He could work with anyone on the card, from the bottom or the show to the main eventers.

I liked Buff a lot, he still is someone I really like, but he was not even a fourth the wrestler Raven is. And he is nowhere near on par on the mic with Raven. Raven is much more underrated, and I actually commend TNA on actually giving Raven a World title run.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Obviously Raven

While some may argue that Raven was not underrated, having won heavyweight gold in ECW and TNA and championships in WCW and WWE, which not many other wrestlers have done, the man is so talented that he should have achieved alot more than he did, and I think alot of that is down to WWE and WCW under-rating him and not allowing him the chance to spread his wings.

Raven is one of the true masters of the promo, and too few people realise this, due to his lack of opportunities in WWE, where he was basically made a jobber at the time of his most exposure. He is captivating on the mic, and one of the best storytellers in the business. WWE missed a huge opportunity when they failed to utilise Raven's talents, and a gimmick which was unique and revolutionary in the wrestling business. He is under-rated by a lot of fans because they never saw him in ECW and only have memories of him struggling in WWE and being rooted in mid-card level in WCW.

Bagwell on the other hand never impressed me. He had a phenomenal physique, which will always get you somewhere in the wrestling business, but he offered little else IMO. I think he did as well as he should have in wrestling, and people think of him at the level that they should. An average mid-carder

who wore a stupid hat

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

Theoretically is simply has to be bagwell seen as nobody rates him in the slightest and there have obviously been worse wrestlers than him whereas raven has a bit of a cult following with fans. Raven is rated about the level that he is at in general whereas bagwell was in truth underated so it has to be bagwell. Doesn't mean hes as good a wrestler

 

[byrnside]

Point and case right here.. I didn't mind Buff at all, he was pretty good on the mic, but frankly I don't really remember much else about him. Other than him breaking his neck on Rick Steiner, and he was a primadonna and wore his hat after Vince McMahon told him not to. Probably could've had a pretty decent career in the WWE too. The fact remains, Raven was a much better performer, and was 10x the man on the mic as Buff. The Flock was one of the coolest things WCW did in the late 90s.. Of course like everything else, they took it too far and the WWE all but burried him. If used properly, could've EASILY been the top heel in the WWE to this day. Could you imagine a modern day flock feuding with John Cena or Randy Orton or any top WWE guy? Could make for some awesome TV.

 

[CM Pulsar]

Buff definitely had "it": a good look, solid in-ring ability, and he could talk. The biggest problem besides whatever attitude issues he may have had was the way WCW handled him after his injury. They had a golden opportunity to turn him into a huge babyface when he came back: the fans WANTED to cheer him. When he forgave Steiner on TV I remember wanting to cry, that's how moved I was. And then of course you had to have random NWO swerve #453049 and put the kibosh on the whole thing. Buff became a face later on (more out of necessity than anything else since 90% of the top guys then were heels), but he didn't have a tenth of the momentum he could have had if they had just run with it after his injury.

As far as Raven goes, he was just amazing. I remember first becoming familiar with him when he came to WCW and being completely drawn to his character. Here was this dark, brooding guy who looked like the sort of dude who would play in a band I listened to, who wore the shirts of bands I liked to the ring. He was solid in the ring even better on the mic.

With that being said, I would actually pick Buff as "more underrated". Not because I think he is BETTER than Raven (he isn't), but because he had a lot of potential and it just didn't work out due to bad booking and his own faults. And I think because of that a lot of people will never see him as more than a mid-carder, when he could have been a lot more.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

As much as I like Buff Bagwell, he was completely overrated. Raven on the underhand was just a wrestling era too late. Raven is the old school type of methodical heel, one that gets inside you're head and create doubts. He's basically a younger Jake Roberts. Raven was great on the mic, and deadly in the ring. It all boils down to psychology, and Raven knew how to play that card. Raven is underrated due to the fact that in my opinion he was in an era where there wasn't much of a need for a character like him. I could be wrong though.