Ultimate Warrior's Best Match

[The Brain]

The Ultimate Warrior has a reputation as a terrible in ring performer. While I don’t agree with that I’m not here to try to convince you he wasn’t as bad as he’s made out to be. Instead I want to discuss Warrior’s two greatest matches. Despite his reputation I think most of us can agree that Warrior took part in two of the greatest matches of the early WrestleMania years. Both matches had a tremendous amount of hype and excitement along with great drama, action, and a hot crowd.

In 1990 The Ultimate Warrior’s popularity actually started to rival Hulk Hogan’s. He was Intercontinental champion but was starting to outgrow that title. It was time for Warrior to move on to bigger things. After a brief encounter at the Royal Rumble the stage was set for The Ultimate Warrior to challenge Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania VI for the world title while simultaneously defending his IC title. Not only was the face vs. face match ultra rare in those days but the title for title stipulation was a first. The Skydome was electric and the crowd was split between the two greatest heroes of the time. The match was absolutely brilliant in its simplicity. Hogan and Warrior matched each other power move for power move as the match was designed to show that Warrior was actually an equal to Hogan. They had the crowd in the palms of their hands every step of the way. Hogan kicking out of Warrior’s gorilla press slam and hulking up wasn’t exactly a surprise but it was exciting nonetheless. What happened next was a surprise. Hulk went for the famous leg drop but Warrior moved out of the way. He then hit Hogan with his big splash and pinned him to become world champion. It was the first time Hogan had been cleanly pinned in years and it looked like we had a new star to lead us into the 90s.

By WrestleMania VII Warrior had lost the title but still remained as popular as ever. It was the interference of Randy Savage that cost Warrior his title and which pushed their already existing rivalry into a vendetta. They decided the WWF wasn’t big enough for both of them and they agreed to put their careers on the line at WrestleMania. There weren’t any titles on the line but Warrior vs. Savage felt as big as any mania main event. The stakes were higher than even a world title match. Each man approached the match cautiously as neither could afford to make a mistake. They gave it everything they had as if it was their last match because for one of them it was. At one point Savage hit Warrior five times with his famous elbow drop only to have Warrior amazingly kick out. Eventually Warrior pounded Savage to the point of exhaustion as he just couldn’t go any longer. Warrior pinned Savage with one foot and proudly left the ring with his career in tact.

So which of these two the better Warrior match? The WM7 match is one of my all time favorites but my purpose of this thread is to ask which was Warrior’s best match. For as good as the WM7 match was it is best remembered for what happened after Warrior left the ring. The match was awesome but Warrior became kind of an afterthought because of the aftermath. Therefore I’m going to say WM6 was Warrior’s best match. That was his night to shine. Warrior more than held his own with the best and proved he could handle more than just a five minute squash. I don’t think there is any way to make a case for another Warrior match being as good as these two but if you think something else should be mentioned feel free to do so.

 

[Slash-LN]

Asking which match was better to me simply is asking which was better in quality. The Wrestlemania VII was a better quality match. Was Wrestlemania VI better for Warrior's career? Sure. But to me that doesn't mean the match itself was better.

Savage brought more out of Warrior than Hogan did. The in ring performance was better. If I had to choose one of the two over and over again it would be the WM7 match.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Hogan-Warrior @Mania VI, and it isn't even close.

The styles of Hogan and Warrior matched better than that of Savage and Warrior, and it really comes out in the story-telling that occurred at Mania VI. Feats of strength, power moves, no-sells by both, false finishes...and the crowd ate it up. It had a HUGE match feel, and the fact that neither had been pinned cleanly in years factored a lot in the mystique and suspense. The ending is great. Really...it was the closest we ever really got to Hogan v. Hogan...the crowd didn't know who to root for.

Savage/Warrior had no energy, Warrior seemed completely disinterested in the match, and it just had an overly hokie feel. I mean, really...a kick out after FIVE elbows from Savage? Nothing screams fake wrestling more than a guy receiving a devastating finisher five times followed by a kickout and subsequent match take-over just moments later. The finish was TERRIBLE...the crowd did not reach any kind of climax whatsoever.

 

[GameOver]

i think it's a no brainer Brain you called it,
WrestleMania 7 was his best match from a performance level bar non infact i would also go on record as saying Savage was the only opponent that bought the best out of him, everyone else just managed to survive there matches not looking awfull...
the only downside is what is remembered most out of that match? Elizabeth and Savage reuniting and Savage's career was meant to be done at that point and it would have been had Warrior not pulled a no show afterwards.

from an epic point of view and magnitude tho there's no denying Warrior vs Hogan was to 1990 what Andre vs Hogan was to draw power for WrestleMania 3 and truly what the word main event was meant for, in both cases the matches were pretty bysmall but they were epic in leadup and crowd attendance. and that PPV entrance promo from Vince McMahon....

something along the lines of

Upon the examination of the galaxies of space, images begin to appear....
Images of strange and powerfull forces.
But of all the forces in the universe, the two most powerfulll
Hulk Hogan .. and ... The Ultimate Warrior
Prepare to explode, Champion vs Champion, Title vs Title,
It's The Ultimate Challenge, IT's WRESTLEMANIA

still i go for WrestleMania 7 as i said that was his best performance ever.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

i think it's a no brainer Brain you called it,
WrestleMania 7 was his best match from a performance level bar non infact i would also go on record as saying Savage was the only opponent that bought the best out of him, everyone else just managed to survive there matches not looking awfull...

Not sure what match you were watching, but Warrior kicked out of five elbows with a classic pinfall attempt. Savage took a fairly botched shoulder tackle and was pinned with a cocky, standing, foot over the chest. How did that NOT make Savage look awful?

 

[Soulblazed]

I liked the Savage/Warrior match..It had the psychology of a main-event match, it also included Sherri and Warrior getting into it, so I like it better than the Wrestlemania 6 match..Another honorable mention would be Warrior's matches with Undertaker..Besides Hogan and Savage, Taker seems to be the only other person who managed to get a truly watchable match out of Warrior

 

[Wrestlefan27]

I remember both of these matches. I was a huge Warrior/Savage fan and even though I thought Warrior vs. Hogan was really great when I was younger, (I leapt out of my seat cheering when Warrior won) when I go back and watch the match now, it is an utter snoozefest.

I loved Warrior vs. Savage, these were two of my childhood favorites going at it and I loved everything about the match until the awful ending. I feel like Warrior kicking out out five finishers totally ruined wrestling as I knew it. It was like a "fingerpoke of doom" moment. only without the inital hilarity. It damaged Savage, it damaged the concept of "finishing moves" and it damaged the business as a whole. At least in my eyes. That said, I still choose Warrior/Savage as his best match.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

I remember both of these matches. I was a huge Warrior/Savage fan and even though I thought Warrior vs. Hogan was really great when I was younger, (I leapt out of my seat cheering when Warrior won) when I go back and watch the match now, it is an utter snoozefest.

I loved Warrior vs. Savage, these were two of my childhood favorites going at it and I loved everything about the match until the awful ending. I feel like Warrior kicking out out five finishers totally ruined wrestling as I knew it. It was like a "fingerpoke of doom" moment. only without the inital hilarity. It damaged Savage, it damaged the concept of "finishing moves" and it damaged the business as a whole. At least in my eyes. That said, I still choose Warrior/Savage as his best match.

So, basically, you're choosing against a match that, when you watched it...you were intensely emotionally involved and cheered incessantly at its conclusion...in order to vote for a match that ultimately (pun VERY intended) ruined professional wrestling in its totality for you and everyone else. How does that make ANY sense?

What makes Hogan/Warrior a snoozefest? It's a really well-worked match by both involved, though most of the credit definitely should go to Hogan...the far superior in-ring performer. The crowd loved it...you loved it...most people in the world consider it to be Warrior's greatest match, for reasons other than the fact that it's the only time he won the belt.


People really need to find Al Snow's shoot interview talking about what makes a wrestling match a "good" wrestling match.

 

[thebarber]

Wrestlemania 7 was Warriors best match, compared to the Hogan match at Mania 6. I personally think Warriors regaining of the IC Title vs Rick Rude at Summerslam 1989 was his best in ring performance. Savage being beaten the way he was at Mania 7 was a booking decision, and Savage went with it. The match is remembered for what happened after the match between Savage and Liz, not the one foot on chest pinfall

 

[ilapierre]

Steamboat Rickey: I couldn't disagree more with your opinion. Hogan and Warrior was a great matchup but a lot of it looking back was mostly hype. It was the first time in the Hogan era that a fan favourite matched up with a fan favourite for a pay per view world title match. Without the title on the line, without it being at Wrestlemania, without it being the first time in 6 plus years Hogan had been pinned then this match would have been something similar to the Halloween Havoc 98 rematch. You say the Savage/Warrior match had no energy, what match were you watching? It wasn't a fast paced match because it was one where each wrestler was suppose to be careful with each and every move so not to make a career ending mistake. The intensity was through the roof and to me that intensity was way more epic than some typical Ultimate Warrior squash match. You've been criticizing everyone here who almost all easily recognize which was the better match and your overall argument is embarrassing man. Warrior seemed disinterested in the match? Ok then. A hokie feel? Do you even remember which match we're talking about here? This was one of the best all time Wrestlemania matches. If you want to watch something hokie go watch CM Punk defend his title with help from the Shield buddy. Sure, this is the first match in history where Warrior calmly walked down to the ring. Does that make him disinterested in the match? No. It means he took that match more seriously than any before. These days there's retirement matches every year and the wrestler who retires always finds a way back into the ring within a year. But in 1991? When a wrestler lost a retirement match, they retired. There was no coming back. So there was a very real feeling about this match at the time even though it might not come across the same for the young folk on youtube 20 plus years after the fact. Savage and Warrior were the second and third best wrestlers of the era and for a lot of us of all time. One had to retire. This was a huge deal. This would be like if Rock battled Austin in a retirement match back in the Attitude era. Or if Cena vs Punk in the PG era. I understand the argument that the Hogan vs Warrior match meant more for Warrior at the time because he was the first to beat the Immortal one and was now carrying the company. But look how that worked out. I'd argue Savage vs Warrior should have been the world title match at WM 7 and should have been much more important to the Warrior. It would have been had he stuck around for a few more years. The WM 7 match was a better overall match and the Warrior kicking out of 5 big elbow drops was extremely huge in putting over the Warrior. One time only could anyone kick out after experiencing 5 big elbow drops. How did this make Savage look weak? Warrior could not be pinned fair and square in a ring. Rick Rude did it at WM 5 due to interference from the Brain. Slaughter did it at Royal Rumble 91 after Savage hit the Warrior over the head with a sceptre. The immortal and unpinnable Hulk Hogan was pinned fair and square by him. If anything, Warrior kicking out of 5 elbow drops made Savage look extremely strong. He was the closest to ever cleanly pin the Ultimate Warrior, even closer than Hogan. Savage had many DQ and countout and steel cage victories over Warrior. Savage looked pretty damn strong. As a heel about to turn face, he did everything he, or anyone could to beat the Ultimate Warrior and couldn't have done anything else. He put the Ultimate Warrior over and Warrior basically spit on the sport months later. Beating one of the biggest legends in a loser must retire match and kicking out of that man's finisher, dropped 5 times, should have been enough to make it clear Warrior was the top dog in WWE for a decade regardless if Hogan was holding the strap.

As for Wrestlefan27: Warrior kicking out of Savage's finisher 5 times did not ruin finishing moves. Hogan no sold everyone's finishers for years, did that ruin wrestling? Were all those times like fingerpoke of doom moments? Wrestlemania is a time reserved for special moments and fantastic feats. Kicking out of someone's finisher, even if it was delivered 5 times, is something that pretty much never happened before and hasn't really happened since. Savage kicked out of Warrior's finisher and that's also something that had never happened ever either. Had something like this happened on RAW or Saturday afternoon wrestling then yeah you might have a point. But this was Wrestlemania. At Wrestlemania the impossible can happen. Look at how great Vince McMahon could wrestle against legends like Hogan come Wrestlemania. McMahon kicking out of leg drops? Taker vs Michaels or Trips and everyone kicks out of the tombstone piledriver? Taker kicks out of sidekicks and pedigrees? It's stuff reserved for Wrestlemania. Finishers are alive and well to this day even with all the wrestlers kicking out of them weekly on RAW or Smackdown. So yeah, Warrior kicking out of 5 elbow drops didn't hurt wrestling or Savage. This was one of Savage's finest matches and he's had a ton of amazing matches. And, Steamboat, the finish was amazing. Savage was defeated and had nothing left in the tank. The crowd didn't blow up as if Stone Cold dropped his 456th stunner on Vince because NO ONE wanted to see Randy Savage retired. Savage was hugely popular even though he was a heel The crowd was in shock, I don't think anyone wanted to see either man retired permanently. Neither were all that old and both were in their prime. And they were still getting over the fact that both men kicked out of finishers no one ever got up from. The match was amazing and the aftermath is what makes it perhaps the most epic of Wrestlemania matches. It ranks right up there with Hulk vs Andre and Hulk vs Rock at WM 18. It might not have been a wrestling clinic like Steamboat vs Savage four years earlier but it was, with everything that happened, a much more epic and memorable match.

 

[dtroppe]

Both are excellent matches! My favorite Warrior match is Warrior v Owen Hart on RAW. Just an all around good match. Warrior was escalated to Main event status before he had a lot of in ring skills and it yet he was still one of the most memorable wrestlers of all time.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Steamboat Rickey: I couldn't disagree more with your opinion.

I couldn't disagree more with your spelling of my name.

Hogan and Warrior was a great matchup but a lot of it looking back was mostly hype.

Not a good start. Hype gets people to tune-in in the first place. That means money is made. When the most money is made, that's usually the quantitative measure that the wrestling is good.

It was the first time in the Hogan era that a fan favourite matched up with a fan favourite for a pay per view world title match.

Which is unique and interesting...unlike the classic babyface/heel matchup that Savage/Warrior offered. Also, how many career v. career matchups had wrestling seen up to that point? If not career v. career...loser leaves town, etc? This stipulation was often used in wrestling as wrestlers moved from territory to territory. A guy would "retire" or "leave town" only to show up elsewhere later. Did anyone REALLY think that either would really stay retired?

Without the title on the line, without it being at Wrestlemania, without it being the first time in 6 plus years Hogan had been pinned then this match would have been something similar to the Halloween Havoc 98 rematch.

Really? I don't recall botched fireball attempts, poor move-timing, and a ridiculous interference-finish in Hogan-Warrior I. I recall good timing for the most part, a hot crowd, and a really exciting finish.

You say the Savage/Warrior match had no energy, what match were you watching?

A match that carried infinitely less meaning to the crowd than a match that contained Hulk Hogan.

It wasn't a fast paced match because it was one where each wrestler was suppose to be careful with each and every move so not to make a career ending mistake. The intensity was through the roof and to me that intensity was way more epic than some typical Ultimate Warrior squash match.

First: Oh yeah? Is that why Savage went for 5 elbow drops? It would seem that an individual concerned with salvaging his career would have gone for some pinfall attempts, but that's just me.

Second: Through the roof? No. That's the next match between Hogan/Slaughter.

Third: Better than a Warrior squash match? Ok. Hogan kicked out at 3.1 in Hogan/Warrior I. Hardly a squash.

You've been criticizing everyone here who almost all easily recognize which was the better match and your overall argument is embarrassing man.

If my argument is embarrassing, which adjective would you use to describe your own?

Warrior seemed disinterested in the match? Ok then.

Yes. At least you agree on something.

A hokie feel? Do you even remember which match we're talking about here? This was one of the best all time Wrestlemania matches.

For the Macho/Elizabeth reunion at the end. The match itself sucked.

If you want to watch something hokie go watch CM Punk defend his title with help from the Shield buddy.

Yeah, not at Wrestlemania though. And no one is arguing that those are Punk's best matches. Irrelevant point in regards to Hogan/Warrior I.

Sure, this is the first match in history where Warrior calmly walked down to the ring. Does that make him disinterested in the match? No. It means he took that match more seriously than any before.

He didn't run down the aisle because there wasn't enough room. The aisle in the Colosseum was too narrow and he would have run into people's hands. You could see he was frustrated by fans grabbing him as he walked down the aisle.

I would suggest that Warrior thought that he should have the strap or his match should be going on last. Warrior's energy was much lesser against Savage than with Hogan. And since when is the main event at Wrestlemania with two belts on the line less significant than a career?

These days there's retirement matches every year and the wrestler who retires always finds a way back into the ring within a year. But in 1991? When a wrestler lost a retirement match, they retired.

Read what I already wrote.

There was no coming back.

Really?

So there was a very real feeling about this match at the time even though it might not come across the same for the young folk on youtube 20 plus years after the fact. Savage and Warrior were the second and third best wrestlers of the era and for a lot of us of all time.

And Hogan was #1. Thus, Hogan/Warrior.

One had to retire.

Actually, both did. But many years later.

This was a huge deal.

But as I'm systematically showing you and everyone else...not nearly as huge of a deal as Hogan/Warrior.

This would be like if Rock battled Austin in a retirement match back in the Attitude era. Or if Cena vs Punk in the PG era.

No, because this match did not contain Hogan. Your parallel would be correct if you said, "Rock/Triple H" or "Punk/uhhhh Sheamus"?

I understand the argument that the Hogan vs Warrior match meant more for Warrior at the time because he was the first to beat the Immortal one and was now carrying the company. But look how that worked out.

It worked out to be one of the most electrifying and entertaining matches in Wrestlemania history. What's your point?

I'd argue Savage vs Warrior should have been the world title match at WM 7 and should have been much more important to the Warrior.

And you'd be wrong if you had any idea what was happening in Iraq at the time.

It would have been had he stuck around for a few more years.

He didn't though.

The WM 7 match was a better overall match and the Warrior kicking out of 5 big elbow drops was extremely huge in putting over the Warrior.

No, actually. It was quite detrimental to Savage and made the match look like a sideshow. Fake wrestling at its finest.

One time only could anyone kick out after experiencing 5 big elbow drops.

Thank goodness for that.

How did this make Savage look weak?

Uhhh...because Warrior kicked out of Savage's best move...after he hit it five consecutive times? Seems pretty self-explanatory. At that point, Savage might as well have just packed his bags for his super legitimate retirement.

Warrior could not be pinned fair and square in a ring. Rick Rude did it at WM 5 due to interference from the Brain. Slaughter did it at Royal Rumble 91 after Savage hit the Warrior over the head with a sceptre.

And neither could Hogan, making their match THAT much better. And the fact that Warrior won made it incredible.

The immortal and unpinnable Hulk Hogan was pinned fair and square by him.

Thanks for making my point. There's hope for you, yet.

If anything, Warrior kicking out of 5 elbow drops made Savage look extremely strong.

And all hope is lost. The logic behind that statement...well...I honestly cannot think of a word to use.

He was the closest to ever cleanly pin the Ultimate Warrior, even closer than Hogan. Savage had many DQ and countout and steel cage victories over Warrior. Savage looked pretty damn strong.

If by strong you mean not being able to pin Warrior after hitting his best move five times in a row and subsequently losing complete control of the match to a quickly rejuvenated Warrior.

As a heel about to turn face, he did everything he, or anyone could to beat the Ultimate Warrior and couldn't have done anything else. He put the Ultimate Warrior over and Warrior basically spit on the sport months later.

Ok. Hogan and Warrior put each other over. Savage gained nothing based on the match itself. Better match goes to the one that is most beneficial to both.

Beating one of the biggest legends in a loser must retire match and kicking out of that man's finisher, dropped 5 times, should have been enough to make it clear Warrior was the top dog in WWE for a decade regardless if Hogan was holding the strap.

But it wasn't. That's why Hogan went on last at Mania VIII and Warrior returned during that match instead of Flair/Savage going on last with Warrior returning during THAT match.



Overall, a poor attempt to show me up. But if you would like to continue, I surely will not try to dissuade you. I may or may not have time to respond.

 

[ilapierre]

Steamboat Ricky. Your opinion is your opinion and you're free to believe what you want. Go right ahead and pick apart my opinion even if a lot of us here can't agree or really get your opinion. I don't have to quote every single word and sentence of yours to show you up. You do a good enough job making a stupid argument. Like Hogan vs Warrior, Savage vs Warrior at WM 7 is one of the greatest matches in the history of WWE. It had just as much hype as Hogan vs Warrior but it was a far greater match in the ring and in all around effect. Making it BETTER.

I love your line 'a match that carried infinitely less meaning to the crowd than a match that contained Hulk Hogan.' I could tear this and all your close minded beliefs into tiny bits but why bother? You know you're right and that's all that counts to you. Hogan was the be all and end all to everybody because that's how you remember it. You obviously can't remember the pops and heel hatred generated by Warrior and Savage during this time because of your Hulk Hogan tunnel vision. You think nobody gave a shit about Warrior or Savage if Hogan wasn't involved. Give me a break. Most Hogan fans were big into Savage and Warrior. I was way more into Savage, so were a lot of my friends and I also knew a ton of people who preferred Warrior over Hogan. And nobody gave a shit about fucking Sgt Slaughter. Hulk Hogan was the top draw and got the big ovations. But to say Warrior and Savage couldn't draw similar attention or reaction from the audience. That's ridiculous.

Hogan/Warrior wasn't a squash match. I didn't say it was. It definitely wasn't a high energy match by any means though although it had that huge feel to it. I'm not trying to diminish how huge a match Hogan vs Warrior was. At the time it was right up there with Hogan vs Andre for drawing. But, like most posters on this thread, I just don't believe it was Warrior's best match. Oh yeah the IC title. Big fucking deal. Had Warrior lost, he would have only lost the world title to Hogan. The IC title would still be his. Could you imagine Hulk Hogan carrying the IC title? You keep telling me Hogan was bigger and better than Savage and that makes the Warrior/Hogan match so much better. But that's exactly where you're wrong. Savage was the better wrestler, the better entertainer and the best at putting over anybody. Savage was huge man, he wasn't some second rate main eventer. Ok so fans came to see Hogan because he was the big draw. Hogan vs Slaughter was good vs evil, America vs Iraq. You're right it was a huge deal at the time. But fans went home remembering above all else the Warrior vs Savage match. Decades later it's still the Savage/Warrior match that's remembered. Savage often upstaged Hogan even though Hogan was the company's top draw. Remember Andre vs Hogan? Biggest match of all time but still upstaged by one of the best matches of all time: Savage vs Steamboat. A match Steamboat's legacy hinges on. Good thing Savage was willing to even step in the ring and plot out the whole match for him. And put him over. Hogan wouldn't have even stepped into a ring with Steamboat, let alone the same dressing room. You'd think Steamboat pinning Savage would hurt Savage's career. This small little guy beats Savage and takes his title. How could Savage ever compete with the heavyweights? Steamboat beat Savage but Savage was world champ a year later. Savage lost a retirement match to Warrior and couldn't beat him after 5 elbow drops. How could Savage ever wrestle again? He was back at WM 8 and won the world title by pinning the greatest wrestler of all time. So, no, I don't think Savage losing to the Warrior ruined Savage's career any more than him losing to a puny lightweight mid carder like Ricky Steamboat.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Steamboat Ricky. Your opinion is your opinion and you're free to believe what you want. Go right ahead and pick apart my opinion even if a lot of us here can't agree or really get your opinion. I don't have to quote every single word and sentence of yours to show you up. You do a good enough job making a stupid argument. Like Hogan vs Warrior, Savage vs Warrior at WM 7 is one of the greatest matches in the history of WWE. It had just as much hype as Hogan vs Warrior but it was a far greater match in the ring and in all around effect. Making it BETTER.

I don't have the time to pick apart this post, particularly because you mostly repost the same argument you made in the last post with even less to back up your statements.

Savage/Warrior as part of Mania VII did 400,000 buys compared to Mania VI (Hogan/Warrior)'s 550,000: a buyrate that would not be surpassed until Stone Cold Steve Austin won his first title. So, if Savage/Warrior had as much hype as Hogan/Warrior...then one of two things happened:

1) The hype sucked.
2) People cared less.

I would put my money on the latter.

I love your line 'a match that carried infinitely less meaning to the crowd than a match that contained Hulk Hogan.' I could tear this and all your close minded beliefs into tiny bits but why bother? You know you're right and that's all that counts to you. Hogan was the be all and end all to everybody because that's how you remember it.

I also remember how WWE made far more money during the time Hogan was on-top than at any other time in its history. Sounds like Hogan meant a lot to a lot of people...not just me.

You obviously can't remember the pops and heel hatred generated by Warrior and Savage during this time because of your Hulk Hogan tunnel vision. You think nobody gave a shit about Warrior or Savage if Hogan wasn't involved. Give me a break. Most Hogan fans were big into Savage and Warrior. I was way more into Savage, so were a lot of my friends and I also knew a ton of people who preferred Warrior over Hogan.

Actually, Hogan/Savage did 767,000 buys, showing that people cared about Hogan/Savage almost twice as much as they cared about Savage/Warrior. But hey, it's just statistics.

And nobody gave a shit about fucking Sgt Slaughter.

Slaughter was receiving death threats to the extent that he legitimately had to have protection wherever he went. Tell me, was Savage getting that kind of heat?

Hulk Hogan was the top draw and got the big ovations. But to say Warrior and Savage couldn't draw similar attention or reaction from the audience. That's ridiculous.

Actually, it's not ridiculous. You can watch the videos to find out for yourself. Or you can look at the PPV buys if you would like something objective.

Hogan/Warrior wasn't a squash match. I didn't say it was. It definitely wasn't a high energy match by any means though although it had that huge feel to it. I'm not trying to diminish how huge a match Hogan vs Warrior was. At the time it was right up there with Hogan vs Andre for drawing.

Not really. Hogan/Andre did about 850,000 combining Closed-Circuit w/ PPV buys.

But, like most posters on this thread, I just don't believe it was Warrior's best match.

Most posters? I missed that because I was too busy seeing that the poll was heavily in favor of Hogan/Warrior.

Oh yeah the IC title. Big fucking deal. Had Warrior lost, he would have only lost the world title to Hogan. The IC title would still be his. Could you imagine Hulk Hogan carrying the IC title? You keep telling me Hogan was bigger and better than Savage and that makes the Warrior/Hogan match so much better. But that's exactly where you're wrong. Savage was the better wrestler, the better entertainer and the best at putting over anybody.

Dollars and cents indicate that Hogan was far better at being a wrestler and/or entertainer, as he drew far more money than Savage did.

Savage was huge man, he wasn't some second rate main eventer.

Except he was...to Hogan.

Ok so fans came to see Hogan because he was the big draw.

Which is what really matters, right?

Hogan vs Slaughter was good vs evil, America vs Iraq. You're right it was a huge deal at the time. But fans went home remembering above all else the Warrior vs Savage match. Decades later it's still the Savage/Warrior match that's remembered. Savage often upstaged Hogan even though Hogan was the company's top draw. Remember Andre vs Hogan? Biggest match of all time but still upstaged by one of the best matches of all time: Savage vs Steamboat. A match Steamboat's legacy hinges on. Good thing Savage was willing to even step in the ring and plot out the whole match for him. And put him over. Hogan wouldn't have even stepped into a ring with Steamboat, let alone the same dressing room.

You're right. Hogan would just go ahead and have him as a tag-team partner.

[YOUTUBE]iZCQ2fNLo_w[/YOUTUBE]

You'd think Steamboat pinning Savage would hurt Savage's career. This small little guy beats Savage and takes his title. How could Savage ever compete with the heavyweights? Steamboat beat Savage but Savage was world champ a year later. Savage lost a retirement match to Warrior and couldn't beat him after 5 elbow drops. How could Savage ever wrestle again? He was back at WM 8 and won the world title by pinning the greatest wrestler of all time. So, no, I don't think Savage losing to the Warrior ruined Savage's career any more than him losing to a puny lightweight like Ricky Steamboat.

I didn't say that it ruined Savage's career either, but I'm beyond expecting you to actually read my argument. Just like points in your other post (and most from this one, also) Savage/Steamboat has no relevancy to the topic at hand.

Hogan/Warrior wins both in terms of quantitative data and the eye test. Clear as day.



For what it's worth, I own a Macho Man t-shirt and wear it proudly to this day. That's one more than the number of Hogan shirts I own.

 

[TM Punk]

Im not going to be a complete tool bag and try taking about who drew what and use what i read off of wikipedia like theyre my own thoughts. I'm just going to tell you my opinion. The Hogan match won match of the year in 1990 (no, i didnt look that up). Also, when you look back at Wrestlemania's past, there are 5 specific matches that are ALWAYS looked at as the biggest matches in mania history: Hogan vs Andre, Rock vs Austin, Hogan vs Rock, Rock vs Cena (it deserves it), and Hogan vs Warror. All of these matches are filled with SPECIAL moments. And they all had, and still carry significance among the WWE Universe. So to try and compare a Hogan vs Warrior, to Warrior vs Savage... they arent comparable. Maybe Savage and Warrior had a little bit more technically sound match. It doesnt matter. The impact, and the energy produced when the irresistable force meets the immovable object definatly makes up for the lack of small packages, and headlock takeovers.

On a side note, two things these matches have in common. They both have Warrior in them, and they both stole the show at Wrestlemania. Maybe Warrior is a better wrestler than anyone ever gave him credit for.

 

[Doctor Awesome]

I chose to not read the poll or previous posts on the subject to enter mine and go back and see what others said. As soon as I saw the title of the thread, it was a no-brainer and I knew what I thought right away....Warrior/Savage at WM hands down!!! Here are the obvious reasons why...1. It was more emotional that Hogan/Warrior and 2. He was wrestling Randy f'n Savage who made the Warrior look like a God.

I can't think of a single Warrior match that I thoroughly enjoyed except for that particular one and he was just the filler. It was all about the finish and the loser retiring, but the finish was outstanding and then the aftermath with Sherry, Liz and Randy is still one of the best moments in company history, and Warrior was just blessed to be the other guy in the match.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Frankly I am stunned that the poll does not include the ACTUAL best match Warrior ever had, at Wrestlemania V against Rick Rude. Yes the Warrior took his first loss, but Rude was the one who actually made Warrior look a viable opponent for Hogan.

If you didn't add it cos you haven't seen it you need to go back and watch it, because The Warrior was never good in the ring with Hogan but with Rude carrying him he was certainly passable. Savage was in a difficult position, knowing people were expecting him to turn shit into gold. He did his best but that match was no where near what it could have been as Warrior was clearly into his out of control ego phase and even with the sappy return of Liz it didn't get above mediocre for me. I would have much rather have seen WM7 play out as Rude v Hogan for the title and Warrior v The Undertaker.

 

[sanefan_har]

I liked both matches. Like a poster above me said, Warrior ended up getting a lot less credit for being an above average wrestler.

However the match at WM7 had more emotion to it. When Savage kicked out of the Warrior's finisher, the Warrior almost believed he had lost that "touch"(kayfabe wise of course). The ending of the match was awkward, but both men were worn out and showed that aspect in the ending. Warrior's slow but powerful flying shoulderblocks (that's right there were 3, not one like many people WANT to remember) took the remaining stuffing out of Savage.

@WM6 When Hulk kicked out of the finisher, it was no surprise because he did that all the time. But the second time Warrior hit the splash it was more of a sudden impact on Hogan than inevitable pain, and that's what helped Warrior win(kayfabe wise, again).

Was WM6 great? Yes. Was WM7 great? Yes. Did WM6 have the emotion? Kinda, but nowhere near that of WM7. WM7 had emotion from the beginning to the end of the match. WM6 had near-fall after near-fall. And Hulk Hogan, the John Cena of the 1980-90s.

And then you have people like this.

Steamboat Ricky : He didn't run down the aisle because there wasn't enough room. The aisle in the Colosseum was too narrow and he would have run into people's hands. You could see he was frustrated by fans grabbing him as he walked down the aisle.


The biggest load of crap I've heard since "The world is going to end on 21st December 2012". Its like you visualized what you wanted to see and are just blabbering it thinking the whole world will just honor your so called intellect for saying something unusual and random. People these days . SMH.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Both matches in the poll were terrific, but I always felt the Warrior-Savage match was made significant because of the Sherri/Elizabeth storyline more than for the contest itself. Whether you liked Randy Savage or not, he had superior working ability and could coax a fine match out of anyone. Plus, he took more punishment than any main eventer I ever saw (with the possible exception of John Cena) and always made his opponent look great. That was the essence of the Warrior/Savage match.

Warrior/Hogan was another thing entirely. The Hogan legend was so firmly established at that time, I would have been willing to bet real money that the contest wouldn't end with a clean win by Warrior......which is to say, no one on the face of God's green earth would be allowed to pin or submit Hulk Hogan. That two "good guys" were opposing each other added something we never got to see in championship matches, that's for sure.

That the two men worked so hard in the match was sauce for the goose. That the contest went on so long added to the anticipation that was building since they stepped into the ring; the hope that Warrior could somehow pull it off.... as unlikely as that seemed. Still, I figured that all Warrior's efforts would wind up with the usual stomping of Hulk around the ring, shaking his fist and pointing "You!" at his foe, before applying that infernal "leg drop from hell" that added another "glorious" victory to his streak.

As the match progressed, I became convinced WWE wouldn't sully the affair with a cheap ending; no count-outs or DQs or crap like that. It was too important an event to allow that; each passing moment accented it.

When Warrior won cleanly, I couldn't believe it; I didn't know about Hogan's political maneuverings at that time (nor would I have cared) but the fact he allowed a clean loss completely floored me, largely because it was something we had never before seen.

Warrior was terrific; as much a loose cannon as he could be, he acquitted himself brilliantly in this match, doing just what he was supposed to do....and making himself look as if he deserved to be a champion even as he made Hogan look great, too.

Performers really do work harder at Wrestlemania.....this match proved it.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

And then you have people like this.

Steamboat Ricky : He didn't run down the aisle because there wasn't enough room. The aisle in the Colosseum was too narrow and he would have run into people's hands. You could see he was frustrated by fans grabbing him as he walked down the aisle.


The biggest load of crap I've heard since "The world is going to end on 21st December 2012". Its like you visualized what you wanted to see and are just blabbering it thinking the whole world will just honor your so called intellect for saying something unusual and random. People these days . SMH.

This picture captures what it would have been like if Warrior would have run down the aisle at full speed. Can't you see where a performer would feel uncomfortable doing that?

The aisle at Mania VI was considerably larger (as were other times that Warrior did his intro)...so, seems pretty logical to me. The lack of usual theatrics at the beginning of the match by Warrior really took away from what Warrior does best.

 

[HBKistheHOF]

I'm pretty shocked too that you didn't include any Warrior/Rick Rude matches.

I have never liked the Ultimate Warrior but I loved both feuds for the IC & WWF titles with Rick Rude. They had some very memorable matches at Summerslam & Wrestlemania among others. And who can forget the Royal Rumble pose down?! Warriors feud with Rude REALLY excelled both men & was by far Warriors best feud ever IMO & a highlight of Rude's.

Also, while they never had a high-profile singles match I'm aware of, the only other person I loved seeing Warrior face was Mr. Perfect. The Perfect Team vs. The Ultimate Warriors at Survivor Series 1990 is one of my alltime favorite SS matchups & a highlight of Warriors somewhat limited career IMO.

But out of your two options, I gotta go with Savage. I'm partially biased cause I've never enjoyed Hogan & Savage is one of my all time favorites & can't have a bad match. But honestly besides the double clothesline & Edge sitting in the audience, I don't remember a single thing about Hogan/Warrior. Yeah it was an "epic" confrontation for it's time & the first time someone beat Hogan at Mania but the match itself kinda sucked. Savage & Warrior had a GREAT match & was a very emotional & memorable Mania bout.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

For me it was Hogan vs Warrior. A match this big between two top baby faces in the business didn't happen often at all. The build up was perfect and who would have thought that Hogan and Warrior could put on such a great match with each other?

I actually thought that Rude Vs Warrior was better than Savage vs Warrior. I love Savage his style didn't mesh well with Warrior.

People really need to find Al Snow's shoot interview talking about what makes a wrestling match a "good" wrestling match.

Doesn't really matter what Al Snow thinks because this is a subjective subject. Not trying to sound like an ass.

This picture captures what it would have been like if Warrior would have run down the aisle at full speed. Can't you see where a performer would feel uncomfortable doing that?

The aisle at Thomas and Mack Center in Las Vegas was a lot more narrow than that. He still ran down with no problems. This was when he was fighting Andre.

 

[ilapierre]

Steamboat Ricky: I'll give you one thing, good job on digging up the Hogan/Steamboat tag team match. But are you 26 years old? I don't know what I'm listed at here but I'm 31 in reality. I was 10 and you would have been 5 during WM7. How do you know for sure Savage and Warrior had no hype? I would have remembered that period of time better than you. Is it because you watch it on youtube now the crowd didn't pop like they did for Hogan/Slaughter or any other high profile Hogan match? America was at war, fans would have popped or marked out more visibly for Hacksaw Jim Duggan than they would have for either Warrior or Savage in a loser must retire match. I watched WM7 when it came out on video and I knew the ending but hadn't seen the match. I was on the edge of my seat hoping there'd be some loophole and neither would have to retire. I think when you look back at the video of this you see a lot of fans glued to their seats with their eyes on the ring but not really popping or booing. Savage was in the process of turning face and wasn't overly heel in the match. The fans were suppose to cheer Warrior and hate Savage but nobody was gonna pop to see two of the top three draws become instantly retired. This was a special match with much different circumstances than any high profile match ever. Like I said before, it'd be like if Rock was up against Stone Cold or Triple H on the grandest stage of them all back in 2000 and the loser had to retire in their prime when business was booming. Except by 2000 loser must retire matches didn't mean a whole lot anymore. Nowhere near what they meant in 1991. Anyway, the point here is that a loser must retire match between two of the top 3 stars in the company during a boom period wouldn't receive the same visible reaction as a straightforward face vs heel match.

Ok so supposing your facts are accurate, the buyrate of WM 6 would have been based on the Hogan vs Warrior main event. The rest of the card was not that spectacular. This match was absolutely huge. It put more butts in seats than anything besides Hogan/Andre or Hogan/Rock. I agree. So Warrior's best drawing match was his match vs Hogan. Anyone's best drawing match was their match against Hogan. According to you, WM 7 did 400,000 buys which is a bit less. The buys for that would have also been based on the main event which was Hogan vs Sgt Slaughter. So Hogan and Warrior outdrew Hogan/Slaughter. Savage vs Warrior wasn't part of a double main event. It was just the second biggest match on the card. Everyone expected it to be a better match than the main event but no one knew for sure what to expect. I don't think you can say the hype sucked or that people cared less about Savage vs Warrior because that Wrestlemania drew 150 000 less buys. 400,000 was still a lot of buys. What you could say though is fans cared considerably less about Hogan in the main event with Sgt. Slaugther.

Anyway, Savage vs Warrior was suppose to be the second big match but it exceeded expectations. It wasn't the second best match and it didn't have the obvious ending like the main event. It was an epic match and aftermath, it set the mood for the feel good vibe for the rest of the evening. Nobody who bought this PPV and no one in the audience knew how big this was going to be or how memorable this match was going to be. That was the true beauty of it. It was a gem overshadowed by a pretty lopsided main event. People didn't care as much going into the match as they ended up caring during of afterward. Should we say that Savage vs Steamboat sucked because everyone came to see Hulk vs Andre? Or could we say Savage vs Steamboat was an amazing match because it was in front of the largest wrestling audience of all time? That's flawed logic. So Warrior winning the world title from Hogan at WM 6 drew better and was better (should have been way better) from a career standpoint for the Ultimate Warrior. But Warrior vs Savage was a better match, had more emotion and stands the test of time better. When you look back at Hogan vs Warrior it's clear that this was only a temporary passing of the torch by Hogan as he was able to politic himself back into top spot within a year.

Anyway I'm not denying that anyone came close to outdrawing Hogan back in the day. Hogan was always my second favourite wrestler until Bret Hart got big. When Hogan turned heel and joined the NWO he became my second favourite wrestler all over again. His WCW days as leader of the NWO surpass for me the red, white and blue American hero days where no one could beat Hogan. I watched WCW and bought PPVs to see Hollywood Hogan. I'm never going to deny what Hogan did for wrestling or how high profile most of his matches were. I think his match with The Rock was way better than his Warrior match. Hogan vs Rock at WM18 may be my favourite match of all time because I did not expect to witness what I did coming into the match. Hogan's match with Andre is the most memorable one in the history of wrestling entertainment. All these matches included Hogan and were obvious draws because they were the main attractions. But Savage vs Warrior at WM 7 is one of very few high profile matches of the period which didn't include Hogan and wasn't the main event but completely blew people away. Had fans known how epic and memorable that match was going to be and had there been no Iraq war, this match would have completely overshadowed such a poor main event matchup.

As for Slaughter's half year of fabricated heat, you could have made Jim Powers an American turncoat and he could have main evented WM 7. He would have received just as many death threats. That's heat directed more at WWE for going ahead with that character and angle. Not so much the wrestling personality. Without the Iraq war, no one gave a shit about Sgt. Slaughter. He was always just one of those lower card guys before and that's where he ended up again after Summer Slam.

As for the poll, anyone who goes to this effort to complain about anybody with a differing opinion could also troll this site on secondary WZ accounts to vote for Hogan/Warrior in an effort strengthen his otherwise pretty weak argument. There are a lot more posters here who prefer Savage vs Warrior because they enjoyed the match and theatrics better. We're fans, the question was which Warrior match was the best not which match drew more PPV buys. You can't determine how good a match is by looking at the PPV buyrate. There could be a ton of other factors not related to either match as to why one PPV had a higher buyrate than another. Perhaps more fans tuned into WM 6 to see Dusty Rhodes and Sapphire kick Savage and Sherri's ass. Perhaps less fans didn't buy WM7 as much because Warrior wasn't champ anymore. You put too much stock in the buyrates. You could say that more fans were interested and anticipated an amazing Wrestlemania 6 and that the interest and anticipating was a little less for Wrestlemania 7. But that doesn't add or take away from the quality of the card or the main event matches. Drawing PPV buys determines which wrestlers and matches sold more. It does not determine who had the best matches. That would be determined after a qualitative analysis of the PPV. Had wrestling fans known that Hogan would leave the NWO and revert back to the red and yellow at Wrestlemania 18, then perhaps the buys would have been way better. The match means more looking back after the fact than it ever did going into Wrestlemania 18.

Savage was secondary to Hogan during this era and no one else. That's not a knock against Savage. Hogan is the most important wrestling entertainer of all time. Not the best, but definitely the best draw and biggest household name world wide. Saying Savage was a second rate wrestler is a bit ridiculous though. That's like saying that Lou Gehrig was second rate because he was overshadowed by Babe Ruth. Or Mario Lemieux was second rate because Wayne Gretzky was more important to hockey.

That's cool you own a Savage shirt. I never had a Savage one but I owned a Hogan beater. I saved it till 2003 when I marked out and ripped it up on national TV during a taping of Smackdown when Hogan came out as Mr. America. I was only there for Hogan. He drew me to the event. I definitely didn't come out to see Nash vs Triple H. But Hogan didn't come close to having the best match of the night. At least I can separate my subjective preference to watch Hogan from the fact Hogan doesn't usually give you the best match of the night.

And who gives a shit if Warrior walked to the ring or ran. The Warrior had never walked to the ring before. Perhaps it was because the aisle was too tight. So what? Warrior walked instead of running like a hyped up fool because this match meant more than any match before or after in his career. There was no room for error or overexerting himself (kayfabe). Warrior would have walked out had he been in the same kayfabe predicament at Trump Plaza or the Skydome.

For what it's worth, the Rick Rude/Warrior match was a pretty damn good match. From what I remember it was a better straightforward wrestling match than the other two and it's severely underrated. I think for match quality and overall effect though with careers on the line, with Warrior winning, kicking out of 5 big elbow drops and the whole aftermath that the WM7 match was Warrior's best.

 

[sanefan_har]

Steamboat Ricky I remember a jobber match I saw, it was the Warrior v Scott Colton. That aisle had to be one of the narrowest I've ever seen. Gorilla Monsoon on commentary noted that the hands of fans from both sides were touching each other. And bang comes Warrior running full speed. @WM7 Warrior was playing up the intensity of the match involved and hence he walked to the ring. And the fans tugging him, I watched the clip again. You were wrong, he was yet again playing up the intensity of the match by actually ignoring the fans and staring at Savage until he got to the ring apron. It(the entrance of Warrior) was all for storyline's sake and you're playing it up like some exclusive backstage report that never even happened (*cough*LaBar*cough*). And the isle was wide enough for Warrior to run through. Its just that booking decided it wouldn't be as noteworthy.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Steamboat Ricky I remember a jobber match I saw, it was the Warrior v Scott Colton. That aisle had to be one of the narrowest I've ever seen. Gorilla Monsoon on commentary noted that the hands of fans from both sides were touching each other. And bang comes Warrior running full speed. @WM7 Warrior was playing up the intensity of the match involved and hence he walked to the ring. And the fans tugging him, I watched the clip again. You were wrong, he was yet again playing up the intensity of the match by actually ignoring the fans and staring at Savage until he got to the ring apron. It(the entrance of Warrior) was all for storyline's sake and you're playing it up like some exclusive backstage report that never even happened (*cough*LaBar*cough*). And the isle was wide enough for Warrior to run through. Its just that booking decided it wouldn't be as noteworthy.

Ok, I'll ignore the fact that he was shrugging fans off of him and telling them to get off of him. Hogan/Warrior was intense with a lot on the line...Warrior ran. Same thing here. Warrior looked irritated walking down the ramp. Warrior has been known to do things not according to plan (no-showing events, wearing a baseball hat during a promo with King, etc); seems like a pretty reasonable hypothesis. I'll leave it at that.