UFC Reportedly Finalizing Deal for Fedor

[X]

Fedor Emelianenko, UFC Reportedly 'Finalizing Deal'

Posted Jul 28, 2009 6:19PM By Michael David Smith (RSS feed)

The Los Angeles Times is reporting that the Ultimate Fighting Championship and Fedor Emelianenko are finalizing a deal that would bring the heavyweight champion of mixed martial arts into the Octagon and would represent the most significant free-agent signing in the history of MMA.

The UFC said on Tuesday that news would be broken at a Friday conference call, and the Times report, which cites unnamed sources, says that UFC president Dana White will make the announcement that Fedor has been signed.

However, rumors of Fedor's imminent signing with the UFC have arisen before, and in the past those rumors have turned out to have no merit. The Los Angeles Times report came just hours after Fedor's promotion, M-1 Global, announced that Fedor will hold a press conference on Wednesday. It seems odd, to say the least, that Fedor and the UFC have scheduled separate media events if they're about to announce that they have joined forces.

And so we're left wondering whether the Times report is correct, or whether this is just another example of a Fedor-UFC rumor that doesn't pan out. A heavyweight title unification fight between Fedor and Brock Lesnar would be the biggest fight in the history of the sport, but fans shouldn't get their hopes up about it just yet. At least not before Fedor himself sheds some light on the report at his press conference on Wednesday.

Well this is hardly the first time we've heard this before, but considering the recent folding of Affliction, I've felt it's only a matter of time before the UFC finally has Fedor. Probably the best fighter in the entire world right now (for his own weight atleast), I know every single one of us would mark out big time for Fedor in the UFC, and what we all know what ultimately build up to Fedor vs. Brock.

Let's discuss this, and everyone keep their fingers severely crossed and pray to whatever God or deity you choose that this report is true. We'll know it's credibility by tomorrow either way.

EDIT: Well it looks like I may have posted this thread prematurely.

A Tuesday report from the Los Angeles Times that the UFC and Fedor Emelianenko are finalizing a deal has been denied by a representative from Fedor's promotion, M-1 Global, suggesting that the best heavyweight in MMA will not, in fact, be signing on to fight in the Octagon any time soon.

"I can give you a guarantee it's not accurate," Apy Echteld of M-1 Global told Josh Gross of SI.com.

As we noted when the Times initially reported that Fedor and the UFC were close to a deal, M-1 has scheduled a press conference for Wednesday at which Fedor will address the media. It's hard to see how that squares with the Times report that the UFC will announce the signing of Fedor on Friday.

Fedor does most of his talking through M-1 and has indicated that he has no interest in fighting for the UFC unless it's in a joint promotion with M-1. The UFC has said it has no interest in joint promotions with anyone.

 

[SavageTaker]

Damn it X, I was about to make this thread when I was done reading the article. You beat me to it.

Anyways, this probably means only good things for UFC. I’m sure we’re going to get the obvious Lesnar vs. Fedor fight? But my question is when? Will they hype it up for a long time or will the rush right into it? I hope they hype it for some considerable amount of time. I don’t think Dana and anyone else in the UFC are going to rush it because they probably want to make a lot of money off of this fight. Whether they rush it or hype it, it will still happen and this is a dream fight probably for a lot of people. Another fight I would like to see if they sign with Fedor is him against Frank Mir. That would be a great fight that I would definitely like to see happen. I hope they do finalize a deal so that we can get some of the dream fights we would like to see. If they sign, him that would be a great signing for them.

 

[Marquis]

Denying a published report Tuesday by the Los Angeles Times, M-1 Global officials told SI.com that Fedor Emelianenko and the Ultimate Fighting Championship are not close to finalizing a deal that would bring mixed martial arts' top heavyweight in the Octagon. I can give you a guarantee it's not accurate," said Apy Echteld of M-1 Global, a St. Petersburg, Russia-based promotion and management company of which Emelianenko is an equity stakeholder.

According to the Times' report -- which referenced an unnamed source unaffiliated with the UFC and "with information about the negotiations" -- UFC president Dana White was set to announce the signing of Emelianenko on Friday. The source also said negotiations between the top MMA promoter and the Russian champion's camp were "very civil," and that both groups were discussing details on the pending public announcement.

Echteld declined to comment on negotiations between M-1 Global and the UFC, which are rumored to be taking place Tuesday in Los Angeles. He pointed to a press conference Wednesday in Anaheim, Calif., for "important" news on Emelianenko's fate.

Well according to SI who i trust more then the LA times, they are not close to any deal. I won't believe any source of Fedor signing till i actually see it from the UFC itself. Fedor still has the same management, nothing has changed. As long as Fedor is under M-1 i can never see a deal with him going to the UFC go through. M-1 is hellbent on co promoting, which the UFC in no way, and will most likely never do. On top of this he wishes to compete in a full contact sport of Sambo, where he can easily get injured. The Sambo maybe the UFC will bend for, but co promoting? Could never see it happen.

 

[jmt225]

Same ol' ridiculous shit.

Damn Fedor's management pisses me off. I just have no clue why they want the UFC to partner up with M-1 Global so badly. Seriously... without the UFC, Fedor is fucked. M-1 Global can't offer Fedor jack shit, so why is there so much fucking loyalty to them? There's got to be some shady shit going on there.

Anyway, my hopes are still up nonetheless. I so badly want Fedor to sign with the UFC that wishful thinking will always overpower reality in my head in this situation. All you can do at this point is hope Fedor and his ******ed management come to their senses to do what's best for not only them, but for all of Fedor's fans as well.

 

[SavageTaker]

Here’s how I see things, Dana White doesn’t need Fedor. But it doesn’t mean he doesn’t want him. It would be nice to have him so he can be put up against Lesnar and Mir, which are probably 2 dream fights for some, and so that the UFC can make money off of those fights. However, the UFC will still be making a lot of money with or without Fedor. They don’t really need him but it would be nice to add him in. It’s never a bad thing to add some more fighters to your roster.

On the flip side, Fedor is the one who needs UFC. They are the major leagues when it comes to MMA and if he wants to be in the major leagues then UFC is the place for him. Joining UFC is what’s best for his MMA career. He’s the one who needs UFC. As far as UFC partnering up with M-1 Global, why should they? The UFC doesn’t need to partner up with anyone. They’re the biggest and probably the most popular MMA Company in the world, they don’t need to partner up with anyone. What would they gain from a partnership? They would gain nothing from a partnership. No one enters a partnership unless they are going to be gaining something and in this case I really don’t see the UFC gaining anything that will help them more as a company by partnering up with M-1. There’s just no point to them doing that in my opinion.

I really do hope he does sign though and gets rid of his current management. They aren’t helping him at all and Fedor doesn’t need them. He can get a way better management than the people he currently has. He doesn’t owe anything to them so why he’s still with them is something very mysterious. It just really seems like it is something weird and shady like jmt mentioned. Hopefully they do come to their sense and realize that Fedor is the one who needs UFC not vice-versa.

 

[Marquis]

So Fedor had a press conference just a few minutes ago, and i was getting the details minute to minute via a the twitter page of Michael David Smith from fanhouse.

The whole press conference was the same shit we been hearing for a long time now. Fedor and M-1 still insist on co promoting with the UFC. Fedor and the UFC are close to no deal at all despite what other sources say. Fedor completely trusts M-1 apparently. And to make things worse he will be the face of the new EA MMA game. Which the UFC said if anyone is part of, they will never enter the UFC. So basically all this press conference did was re insure to me that Fedor will never be in the UFC. Fedor's own brother Aleks Emelianenko spoke out against M-1, saying they are only using Fedor for their own business projects. If Fedor won't listen to his own brother who he trains with, i don't know who he will listen to.

Basically to quote Jmt, "same ol ridiculous shit". When i saw that LA report i said no fuckin way, and now i saw no fuckin way ever.

 

[z99zazn]

What this whole situation makes me realize is that its wonderful that Fedor can't really be burried. Say, if this was wrestling, and Vince got a hold of a huge star he didn't create, he would probably burry him. Well Dana White and UFC, if they do get Fedor, can't really burry him because thats not how things can really work in UFC. I hope Fedor is gonna sign with them, because a fight with Lesnar would be huge. MMA is taking off big time, and I think this fight would be able to really elevate it to its highest level ever. I saw a thread awhile back about a Fedor vs Brock fight being bigger than Ali and Frazier, and that is not accurate, but it would be bigger than anything we've ever seen in MMA. Let's hope we find out we got a future mega-fight on our hands on Friday!

 

[jmt225]

Holy shit, look at what the UFC was reportedly offering this motherfucker to fight for them:

- The UFC offered Fedor a 6 fight, 30 million dollar contract. That's 5 mil a fight

- The UFC offered Fedor an immediate title shot

- Lesnar/Fedor would be the biggest PPV in MMA history (we assume), and the UFC offered M-1 Global a cut of the PPV on top of Fedor's purse.

- Fedor was free to wear as many M-1 logoed items as he wished.

- The UFC also relented on allowing Fedor to compete in combat sambo.

Can you fucking believe ANYONE in MMA would say no to something like this? If this is true... then man, fuck Fedor. I've always said fuck his management and gave him the benefit of the doubt, but you know what? Fedor's a big boy; he can make his own damn decisions, and for him to allow his ridiculous management to say no to such an offer pisses me off and makes me lose all my respect for him.

Also, it's like I said in my other post, he can't just think about himself, but he has to think about his fans as well. His fans want him in the UFC fighting Brock Lesnar. And for him to decline basically the greatest offer any fighter in the sport has ever been offered is not only saying fuck you to the UFC, but he's also saying fuck you to the fans of Mixed Martial Arts as well.

 

[SavageTaker]

Is Fedor mental or something? He’s being offered everything an MMA fighter dreams of and more. Yet he’s still declining? What the hell is he thinking? The UFC has done everything they can to please him yet it appears it’s not enough. Really? The only thing he’s not getting is the co-promoting with K-1 which his management wanted but at least the UFC is allowing him to promote them with whatever he basically wants. He’s getting everything he wants and more yet that’s not good enough? Like you said jmt, he’s a big boy now, he doesn’t need anyone telling him what his decision are going to be…especially if the decisions are coming from bad management. I swear to you, if I wouldn’t get my ass kicked for slapping him across the face I would do it. The deal he is getting is something that you just can’t say no to, unless there are some extreme circumstances that force you to say no but I don’t see any extreme circumstances so why doesn’t he just say yes and give his fans what they want. And the thing his fans want is for him to fight Brock Lesnar and probably for some of us for him to fight Mir, even if he might win that fight. I just don’t see how he didn’t just say yes as soon as he was offered the deal and it really does seem like something really odd is going on. If he declines the deal then all I have to say is Fuck Fedor because he's an idiot for not accepting the deal.

 

[X]

If this is true, than fuck Fedor is right, he's an asshole. I don't care how loyal he is to M-1 or how proud he is to be a Russian, refusing an offer like this is insane. Seriously, what could possibly be preventing them from signing this deal? Do they want Dana White to suck Fedor off on live television or something? This makes zero sense for someone not to sign that deal. Zero. That's the best god damn deal in the history of MMA.

Seriously, what outlandish demands could M-1 possibly want from the UFC? A stake in the company or something? I agree JMT, if this turns out to be true, I've lost a bit of a respect for Fedor as well. I for one don't understand why he wouldn't want to fight in the league with the absolute best talent in the world. Is he content with beating up on nobodies or something?

 

[Marquis]

I for one don't understand why he wouldn't want to fight in the league with the absolute best talent in the world. Is he content with beating up on nobodies or something?

The UFC has the best talent for every division except the HW division. Who does the UFC have at HW to be considered the best? A 4-1 Lesnar? With wins over Heath "the gatekeeper" Herring? A 45 year old Randy couture with a year lay off? A nobody in Min-Soo Kim? Brock's only notable win is Mir, who hes 1-1 against. Aside from Brock you have, Randy who is 46 and we don't know where he is at right now till after his fight with Nogueira. Nogueira who Fedor beat twice in his prime. And Frank Mir. Doesn't look like a great heavyweight division to me.

Outside of the UFC on the other hand you have, Barnett, Monson, Werdum, and Overeem. All credible opponents Fedor has not faced. Now I'm in no way saying these fights would be better, but the heavyweight division outside of the UFC, and inside the UFC seems pretty even to me. Fedor can still have decent fights outside of the UFC. Personally i would love Fedor in the UFC for a dream fight with Mir.

 

[Mr. TM]

Fedor may have just proven that for some men, money is not everything. He knows that entering into a UFC contract seems like a dream for many Mixed Martial Arts fighters, but it is not his it seems. He is very loyal to M-1, and is proving his worth. As Marquis has said, the Heavyweight division of the UFC is not the best collection of fighters. I am excited to see the heavyweights go on UFC, but they are lit up with star power in their other division. Fedor knows this and many MMA fan who follow the sport outside of UFC knows this.

Outside of UFC, Fedor is allowed to be completely versatile. He gets to fight for his promoter, he gets to fight where he wants, and he gets to fight the fighters he wants. The UFC wants Fedor a lot more than Fedor wants the UFC.

 

[jmt225]

Marquis, I could not disagree more. Brock Lesnar, Randy Couture, and Frank Mir are the three toughest opponents out there for Fedor to face, and the three biggest draws. Brock might still be young in the sport, but he's showing himself to be legit. Couture might be 46, but the man can still go as he has shown over and over again. And I don't need to explain Mir.

Outside of those, you have a VERY impressive young crop of guys about to explode onto the scene in Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, and Junior dos Santos. And then you have season vets in Nog, Cro Cop, Kongo, and Gonzaga in the UFC Heavyweight Division as well.

And as far as the names you listed, Barnett needs to fucking pass a drug test first. Overeem is good, but who has he really beaten? Monson lost against Tim Sylvia in one of the most boring fights in history. I don't care how many fights he's won since then, because they're all pretty much nobodies. And Werdum, Marquis? The same guy Junior dos Santos knocked out in the 1st Round? You're really going to bring him up in the discussion of best Heavyweights in the World? That clown also has a lost against Arlovski.

 

[Mr. TM]

A problem I have is this. Fedor's first match will be against Lesnar for the belt, if it happened, barring a title change before then. If Fedor were to be defeated, then he will have to build momentum again, which only hurts him as a fighter. He doesn't want to lose, and I believe he wouldn't.

If he wins with ease against Lesnar, than what? I believe Mir would be more interested in Lesnar for a third time in that circumstance. I don't even know if Randy will be going by this time, and Fedor will be without competition for a few fights, possibly even 4 more. I am sure Fedor does not want to fight weaker guys then himself and prove nothing when he can be out fighting a bigger crop with possibly better talent.

The only way this works out remotely is if Lesnar and Fedor have a close match. If the deal is signed, I hope for this.

 

[Marquis]

Marquis, I could not disagree more. Brock Lesnar, Randy Couture, and Frank Mir are the three toughest opponents out there for Fedor to face, and the three biggest draws. Brock might still be young in the sport, but he's showing himself to be legit. Couture might be 46, but the man can still go as he has shown over and over again. And I don't need to explain Mir.

Lesnar is 4-1, and i broke down his wins already. Couture is 46, forty fuckin six. Love the guy, but he needs to get passed Big Nog to prove he can still compete.

Outside of those, you have a VERY impressive young crop of guys about to explode onto the scene in Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, and Junior dos Santos. And then you have season vets in Nog, Cro Cop, Kongo, and Gonzaga in the UFC Heavyweight Division as well.

The young crop are decent, but you have a good ranked young prospect in Rogers outside of the UFC as well. As for Nog and CroCop? Really man? Fedor beat both, Nog twice. Kongo just got schooled by Carwin, and Gonzaga is not consistent enough.

And as far as the names you listed, Barnett needs to fucking pass a drug test first.

Its called Japan. No need for Drug tests there.

Overeem is good, but who has he really beaten?

I tend to think hes overrated myself, but he holds notable wins over Buentello, Belfort twice, and Hunt.

Monson lost against Tim Sylvia in one of the most boring fights in history. I don't care how many fights he's won since then, because they're all pretty much nobodies

So? Since losing to Barnett he has beaten Sergei, and Nelson. Two fine wins for the HW division. Should we discredit all fighters with previous loses to minor talent? Like Anderson?

And Werdum, Marquis? The same guy Junior dos Santos knocked out in the 1st Round? You're really going to bring him up in the discussion of best Heavyweights in the World? That clown also has a lost against Arlovski.

That clown has fuckin beat Overeem, Vera, Gonzaga, and Aleksander Emelianenko. He also most likely holds the best BJJ credentials in the heavyweight division.

 

[jmt225]

Lesnar is 4-1, and i broke down his wins already.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure deep down you know he's currently the biggest threat out there for Fedor, especially in a cage.

Couture is 46, forty fuckin six. Love the guy, but he needs to get passed Big Nog to prove he can still compete.

And when he does, you can't ever bring up his age again, k?

The young crop are decent, but you have a good ranked young prospect in Rogers outside of the UFC as well.

You and I both know all three guys I mentioned would fucking SLAUGHTER Rogers. Brett Rogers is going to be exposed very soon. He's no more talented than Kimbo Slice.

As for Nog and CroCop? Really man? Fedor beat both, Nog twice. Kongo just got schooled by Carwin, and Gonzaga is not consistent enough.

I'm not saying Cro Cop and Nog are both in Fedor's league, but they're both definitely in the league of the Heavyweights you mentioned outside of the UFC.

Its called Japan. No need for Drug tests there.

But who wants to see that, now?

Barnett's legacy is forever ruined. That's a fact, man.

I tend to think hes overrated myself, but he holds notable wins over Buentello, Belfort twice, and Hunt.

In my opinion, he's the only one on your list any good outside of Barnett, but I still think he would get his ass handed to him by Lesnar, Couture, Mir, and a couple of others in the UFC.

So? Since losing to Barnett he has beaten Sergei, and Nelson. Two fine wins for the HW division. Should we discredit all fighters with previous loses to minor talent? Like Anderson?

Still though, do you really believe that Monsoon is anywhere near as good as the top Heavyweights in the UFC? That's what this discussion is all about. Name one HW I named in the UFC you think Monsoon can beat.

That clown has fuckin beat Overeem, Vera, Gonzaga, and Aleksander Emelianenko. He also most likely holds the best BJJ credentials in the heavyweight division.

Still though, his last fight was a 1st Round lost to a Rookie in the UFC. How the fuck does that put him anywhere near the elite in the Heavyweight Division?

 

[Marquis]

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure deep down you know he's currently the biggest threat out there for Fedor, especially in a cage.

Deep down I in no way think its his biggest threat.

And when he does, you can't ever bring up his age again, k?

He's only had 1 fight in nine months, almost a year. Tell me why do you consider him such a threat still? He needs to beat Big Nog first before i can see him a threat to Fedor.

You and I both know all three guys I mentioned would fucking SLAUGHTER Rogers. Brett Rogers is going to be exposed very soon. He's no more talented than Kimbo Slice.

Carwin i say would win, not sure about Cain. And for Dos Santos, he likes to bang from what i have seen. Do i think he will out strike Rogers? Nope. Also Rogers is only 28. I never called him a great heavyweight, just a good prospect.

I'm not saying Cro Cop and Nog are both in Fedor's league, but they're both definitely in the league of the Heavyweights you mentioned outside of the UFC.

That's funny. CroCop was getting tooled by Overeem till the match ended by NC. Overeem happens to be one of those outside the UFC talents. CroCop's last notable win was 3 years ago, which was Barnett. CroCop has yet to prove he can hang with the current crop of heavyweights. As for big Nog, i do think a good number of those heavyweights i mentioned can beat him. The very same Nog we saw in the Mir fight, i think those Heavyweights stand a fine chance against. Right now, i see neither of the two in the leagues of the heavyweights i mentioned.

But who wants to see that, now?

Barnett's legacy is forever ruined. That's a fact, man.

What the hell does wanting to see the fight have to do with it being a credible opponent? Ruined his career in the states? Sure. Some don't want to see it? Doesn't matter. Still doesn't change the fact he is a credible opponent outside the UFC.

In my opinion, he's the only one on your list any good outside of Barnett, but I still think he would get his ass handed to him by Lesnar, Couture, Mir, and a couple of others in the UFC.

That's your opinion, i think he would Knockout Lesnar, and tool Couture.

Still though, do you really believe that Monson is anywhere near as good as the top Heavyweights in the UFC? That's what this discussion is all about. Name one HW I named in the UFC you think Monson can beat.

I think Monson can beat Kongo, Gonzaga, and Cain. He would submit Kongo, I say he would TKO or decision Gonzaga since i doubt Gonzaga can submit a black belt like Monson. Cain would get submitted also.

Still though, his last fight was a 1st Round lost to a Rookie in the UFC. How the fuck does that put him anywhere near the elite in the Heavyweight Division?

So one lose discredits your previous wins? Golly, news to me. And this Rookie ain't just some random rookie, he's under the tutelage of Anderson Silva and Big Nog. He also happens to have a decent kickboxing record. I see no shame in getting knocked out by him.

 

[jmt225]

Deep down I in no way think its his biggest threat.

Then who is?

He's only had 1 fight in nine months, almost a year. Tell me why do you consider him such a threat still? He needs to beat Big Nog first before i can see him a threat to Fedor.

Look at what he showed against Brock Lesnar. That was a very valiant effort. And then you look at the Gonzaga and Sylvia fights, Couture still has something left in him for sure. If Nog dominants him, then you have an argument, but until that happens... Couture is still a threat to ANYONE in the Heavyweight Division.

Carwin i say would win, not sure about Cain. And for Dos Santos, he likes to bang from what i have seen. Do i think he will out strike Rogers? Nope. Also Rogers is only 28. I never called him a great heavyweight, just a good prospect.

Rogers has not shown himself to have any ground skills, and his gas tank is very limited. Both Cain and Dos Santos would destroy him.

Also, Dos Santos is a prodigy of Anderson Silva and Big Nog, so yeah... he's getting trained in his kickboxing from Silva, and his ground skills from Nog. There's absolutely no chance Rogers would be able to touch him on the feet, and most definitely on the ground.

That's funny. CroCop was getting tooled by Overeem till the match ended by NC. Overeem happens to be one of those outside the UFC talents.

Yeah, just one. But hardly anyone else you mentioned could take Cro Cop (let's not forget that Cro Cop has 3 wins over Barnett) and you know it.

CroCop's last notable win was 3 years ago, which was Barnett.

And when was Barnett's last notable win? Or Monson? Or Werdum?

CroCop has yet to prove he can hang with the current crop of heavyweights.

He's still a legend and will be able to prove himself in the upcoming months. And he's still better than Monson, Barnett, and Werdum. Overeem is the ONLY guy from your list you could have an argument for. And we're talking about someone who at the BOTTOM of the UFC Heavyweight Division, which once again proves that what you stated about their being more, better HWs outside of the UFC to be extremely false.

As for big Nog, i do think a good number of those heavyweights i mentioned can beat him. The very same Nog we saw in the Mir fight, i think those Heavyweights stand a fine chance against. Right now, i see neither of the two in the leagues of the heavyweights i mentioned.

Werdum and Monson would get schooled on the ground against Nog. Barnett and Overreem are the only people from your list who would stand a chance against him.

What the hell does wanting to see the fight have to do with it being a credible opponent?

It has a lot to do with it. If people don't want to see it, then that doesn't make Barnett a credible opponent.

And besides man, I highly doubt we'll ever see this fight whether Fedor goes to the UFC or not, so it doesn't really matter.

Ruined his career in the states? Sure. Some don't want to see it? Doesn't matter. Still doesn't change the fact he is a credible opponent outside the UFC.

If they would ever fight, which is not a guarantee.

That's your opinion, i think he would Knockout Lesnar, and tool Couture.

He would have to pass the drug test first to do it. And even if he did, you're right it's opinion. And my opinion is that Barnett would get destroyed by both of those guys.

I think Monson can beat Kongo, Gonzaga, and Cain. He would submit Kongo, I say he would TKO or decision Gonzaga since i doubt Gonzaga can submit a black belt like Monson. Cain would get submitted also.

I'll give you Gonzaga if he's having a bad day, but Cain and Kongo? I guarantee there are only about 3% of MMA fans out there who think that midget could take them. And if Monson could sub those two, then how come he couldn't sub Tim Sylvia?

And again... Cain and Kongo are towards the bottom of the UFC Heavyweight Division, so again... he's another person who still doesn't hold to be credible when compared to the UFC top tier HWs, and you listed Monson as one of the top tier HWs outside of the UFC. So, again... your argument doesn't hold water because of this.

Moreover, isn't Monson about to head off to jail, anyway? Just another thing that hurts one of your fighter's arguments.

So one lose discredits your previous wins? Golly, news to me. And this Rookie ain't just some random rookie, he's under the tutelage of Anderson Silva and Big Nog. He also happens to have a decent kickboxing record. I see no shame in getting knocked out by him.

I see no shame in it either, but the fact remains... losing in such a manner and that being your last fight does hurt your resume, especially when a person out there is trying to argue this guy as being better than the top tier Heavyweights in the UFC, such as you are doing.

So, let's recap Marquis. You say that the UFC doesn't have the strongest Heavyweight Division because Josh Barnett (a steroid user whose legacy is forever tarnished), Alistair Overeem (another suspected steroid user, who is most known for punching Cro Cop's nuts), Jeff Monson (whose last fight in the UFC was an embarrassing loss to Tim Sylvia, and also a guy who is about to receive some jail time), and Fabricio Werdum (whose last fight was a 1st Round loss to someone making his UFC debut) all don't compete there. Yeah, man... you see why I don't buy what you're selling, my friend?

 

[Marquis]

Then who is?

Nobody .

Look at what he showed against Brock Lesnar. That was a very valiant effort. And then you look at the Gonzaga and Sylvia fights, Couture still has something left in him for sure. If Nog dominants him, then you have an argument, but until that happens... Couture is still a threat to ANYONE in the Heavyweight Division.

It was a valiant effort, but since that fight he has had almost yet ANOTHER one year lay off. Although you don't want to mention age, he is 46. I can't imagine anyone being a legit contender with one losing fight within a year and 9 months.

Rogers has not shown himself to have any ground skills, and his gas tank is very limited. Both Cain and Dos Santos would destroy him.

Still doesn't change hes a good prospect, like i said he just turned 28 this year. And who needs a ground game? Lots of good strikers don't have one.

Just need takedown defense.
Also, Dos Santos is a prodigy of Anderson Silva and Big Nog, so yeah... he's getting trained in his kickboxing from Silva, and his ground skills from Nog. There's absolutely no chance Rogers would be able to touch him on the feet, and most definitely on the ground.

No chance? I think you're cutting Rogers a bit short. He may be one dimensional, but his forte is his striking. He holds a 3 inch reach advantage over Dos Santos, and looks like he has some well sized fists on him. I do truly think he would knockout Dos Santos in a flurry.

Yeah, just one. But hardly anyone else you mentioned could take Cro Cop (let's not forget that Cro Cop has 3 wins over Barnett) and you know it.

But can the CroCop of today still hang with Barnett? I love CroCop but who has he beat in the last 2 years for you to consider him a legit threat?

And when was Barnett's last notable win? Or Monson? Or Werdum?

Barnett's was probably Yvel, Sergei Kharitonov for Monson, and Vera and Gonzaga for Werdum. I would put any of those wins above any of CroCop's these past two years.

He's still a legend and will be able to prove himself in the upcoming months. And he's still better than Monson, Barnett, and Werdum. Overeem is the ONLY guy from your list you could have an argument for. And we're talking about someone who at the BOTTOM of the UFC Heavyweight Division, which once again proves that what you stated about their being more, better HWs outside of the UFC to be extremely false.

He's a legend, but he still has to prove himself. And who the fuck has CroCop beat as of late to make you think so highly of him still? Al-turk? I in no way think CroCop can hang with the heavyweights i mentioned today.

which once again proves that what you stated about their being more, better HWs outside of the UFC to be extremely false.

Never said that. If you read my original post which i quoted off Xfear i said EVEN divisions inside and outside of the UFC. Never which one was better.

Werdum and Monson would get schooled on the ground against Nog. Barnett and Overreem are the only people from your list who would stand a chance against him.

Really? I love big Nog, but his BJJ credentials are nothing compared to Werdum's and Monson's. Unless Nog has some great credentials I am not aware of.

It has a lot to do with it. If people don't want to see it, then that doesn't make Barnett a credible opponent.

Uh no, it doesn't. Will people not wanting to see it somehow magically effect Barnett's loses and wins? No. He is still a credible opponent whether people want to see him or not.

And besides man, I highly doubt we'll ever see this fight whether Fedor goes to the UFC or not, so it doesn't really matter.

I think very differently. This match seems highly possible in Dream.

He would have to pass the drug test first to do it. And even if he did, you're right it's opinion. And my opinion is that Barnett would get destroyed by both of those guys.

Huh? First of all, Overeem has yet to fail a drug test that I am aware of. He has fought in the states under strikeforce. Secondly, i was talking about Overeem, not Barnett.

I'll give you Gonzaga if he's having a bad day, but Cain and Kongo? I guarantee there are only about 3% of MMA fans out there who think that midget could take them. And if Monson could sub those two, then how come he couldn't sub Tim Sylvia?

When has Kongo shown a notable ground game? His ground and pound? When has he shown notable JJ defense? He hasn't even fought a BJJ artist on Monson's level that I'm aware of. Well the fight with Sylvia was three years ago, fighters do improve.

And again... Cain and Kongo are towards the bottom of the UFC Heavyweight Division, so again... he's another person who still doesn't hold to be credible when compared to the UFC top tier HWs, and you listed Monson as one of the top tier HWs outside of the UFC. So, again... your argument doesn't hold water because of this.

So who do you want me to mention? Mir? Lesnar? I don't think he can hang with the top tier of the UFC HW division, i do think he can hold his own against everyone else. I think you are missing my point.

Moreover, isn't Monson about to head off to jail, anyway? Just another thing that hurts one of your fighter's arguments.

Hasn't been sentenced yet, i remember reading it will most likely be a 90 day jail sentence. 3 months seems harmless to me.

I see no shame in it either, but the fact remains... losing in such a manner and that being your last fight does hurt your resume, especially when a person out there is trying to argue this guy as being better than the top tier Heavyweights in the UFC, such as you are doing.

I don't think hes top tier, but i do think hes a credible heavyweight.

So, let's recap Marquis. You say that the UFC doesn't have the strongest Heavyweight Division because Josh Barnett (a steroid user whose legacy is forever tarnished), Alistair Overeem (another suspected steroid user, who is most known for punching Cro Cop's nuts), Jeff Monson (whose last fight in the UFC was an embarrassing loss to Tim Sylvia, and also a guy who is about to receive some jail time), and Fabricio Werdum (whose last fight was a 1st Round loss to someone making his UFC debut) all don't compete there. Yeah, man... you see why I don't buy what you're selling, my friend?

Recap is needed. First of all if you reread my post to X i said EVEN. I would like to make that very clear to you first. EVEN divisions. Now you admit Barnett and Overeem are two top heavyweights. Then that's two for two with Lesnar and Mir. The UFC has Lesnar and Mir, the outside have Overeem and Barnett, but the outside also happens to still have Fedor. So when talking top tier heavyweights, i would give the edge to the division outside the UFC.

Then there's the other heavyweights. Cain and Carwin are fine prospects. Outside the UFC you most likely have Rogers only. So the UFC has better prospects. Then there's all the other heavyweights. Kongo, Gonzaga, Randy, and Big Nog. We compare that to Monson, Werdum, and Arlovski. Seems even to me considering Kongo and Gonzaga are not consistent enough.

So with saying that the divisions look even to me. Now in terms of which division has the better fights for Fedor. You have two top tier heavyweights in Lesnar and Mir, and two in Overeem and Barnett. Again, that seems even to me.

 

[jmt225]

Nobody .

Lol... okay. Better question: Out of everyone out there, who would be Fedor's toughest opponent?

It was a valiant effort, but since that fight he has had almost yet ANOTHER one year lay off. Although you don't want to mention age, he is 46. I can't imagine anyone being a legit contender with one losing fight within a year and 9 months.

I understand what you're saying, but Randy Couture is not human. And to me, there's not a big difference between 45 and 46. If he could perform that well at 45 years young, then I strongly believe he can carry that on to age 46. A year off only helps a man his age, in fact.

Still doesn't change hes a good prospect, like i said he just turned 28 this year. And who needs a ground game? Lots of good strikers don't have one.

What makes me doubt Rogers so much if that every fight I've seen him in thus far, his opponents were all strictly stand-up fighters, who weren't very good at it to begin with.

No chance? I think you're cutting Rogers a bit short. He may be one dimensional, but his forte is his striking. He holds a 3 inch reach advantage over Dos Santos, and looks like he has some well sized fists on him. I do truly think he would knockout Dos Santos in a flurry.

We'll agree to disagree here. Even though they'll most likely never face each other as I don't see Rogers going to the UFC anytime soon, I do believe time will tell that Dos Santos is the much better fighter nonetheless.

But can the CroCop of today still hang with Barnett? I love CroCop but who has he beat in the last 2 years for you to consider him a legit threat?

Maybe. I wouldn't put money on it, but it's definitely a possibility.

Barnett's was probably Yvel, Sergei Kharitonov for Monson, and Vera and Gonzaga for Werdum. I would put any of those wins above any of CroCop's these past two years.

Fair enough. I still think Cro Cop would defeat Monson and Werdum, though.

He's a legend, but he still has to prove himself. And who the fuck has CroCop beat as of late to make you think so highly of him still? Al-turk? I in no way think CroCop can hang with the heavyweights i mentioned today.

I said Cro Cop was at the bottom of my list when it came to the Heavyweights in the UFC, so I really don't think that highly of him. Hell, I think he's on his way to losing against Dos Santos. However, I do believe he's still CLEARLY better than 2 out of the 4 guys you mentioned.

Really? I love big Nog, but his BJJ credentials are nothing compared to Werdum's and Monson's. Unless Nog has some great credentials I am not aware of.

Monson couldn't submit Sylvia, Nog could. So, there you go on that one. As far as Werdum, well maybe you have a point, but I'm sure you'll agree that Nog is way more well rounded than Werdum overall.

Uh no, it doesn't. Will people not wanting to see it somehow magically effect Barnett's loses and wins? No. He is still a credible opponent whether people want to see him or not.

The less people who want to see you, the more your name slips down in value, so yes... I do think it counts for something and hurts a fighter's credibility. People will never look at Barnett the same after this. For example, if Barnett did defeat Fedor now, people would believe it would only be because of steroids. How does that not hurt Barnett's credibility?

I think very differently. This match seems highly possible in Dream.

Time will tell with that one.

Huh? First of all, Overeem has yet to fail a drug test that I am aware of. He has fought in the states under strikeforce. Secondly, i was talking about Overeem, not Barnett.

Sorry about that, I misread it. But I did bring up Overeem's name later, and he's been suspected of using 'roids. He's never failed a drug test, but looking at him and the fact that he's fought in Japan, who as you yourself mentioned earlier is notorious for its lack of drug tests, leads people to suspect that he's been on steroids. Hell, just look at this:

I promise that's not Photoshoped. If you go to Google and type in Overeem's name, 'alistair overeem steroids' will be the most searched thing for him. So, yes... he is a SUSPECTED steroid abuser. It's not proven, but obviously... a lot of people out there think he's done them.

When has Kongo shown a notable ground game? His ground and pound? When has he shown notable JJ defense? He hasn't even fought a BJJ artist on Monson's level that I'm aware of.

But what makes you think he would be able to get Kongo down in the first place?

So who do you want me to mention? Mir? Lesnar? I don't think he can hang with the top tier of the UFC HW division, i do think he can hold his own against everyone else. I think you are missing my point.

I think I did misinterpret that a little bit, but at the same time... you can't list Monson as among the names out there who Fedor has yet to fought against as one of his toughest competition, when there are clearly more names in the UFC who could take Monson out.

Hasn't been sentenced yet, i remember reading it will most likely be a 90 day jail sentence. 3 months seems harmless to me.

I know; I just felt like bringing it up, lol.

I don't think hes top tier, but i do think hes a credible heavyweight.

Credible is one thing, in Fedor's league is completely another.

Recap is needed. First of all if you reread my post to X i said EVEN. I would like to make that very clear to you first. EVEN divisions.

That I can admit to, though I still disagree.

Now you admit Barnett and Overeem are two top heavyweights.

No, as of now, I admit Overeem is a top tier Heavyweight, whose fucking injured right now, and most known for punching Cro Cop's nuts more than anything.

Barnett, as great of fighter as he is... you can't really put him in the top tier Heavyweights until he redeems himself, which is no guarantee he ever will.

Then that's two for two with Lesnar and Mir.

Ignoring what I just said, Barnett and Overeem at the top of their game... I think Lesnar and Mir would defeat both of them, especially Overeem.

The UFC has Lesnar and Mir, the outside have Overeem and Barnett, but the outside also happens to still have Fedor. So when talking top tier heavyweights, i would give the edge to the division outside the UFC.

But that's not fair to bring up Fedor, lol, because the discussion is where Fedor's toughest competition is. Of course with Fedor outside of the UFC, it even things up a little bit, but still... that's not what we're discussing.

Then there's the other heavyweights. Cain and Carwin are fine prospects. Outside the UFC you most likely have Rogers only. So the UFC has better prospects. Then there's all the other heavyweights. Kongo, Gonzaga, Randy, and Big Nog. We compare that to Monson, Werdum, and Arlovski. Seems even to me considering Kongo and Gonzaga are not consistent enough.

I still don't think Monson and Werdum would stand a chance against any of those guys, and another point to be brought up... I don't think they would put up a better fight against Fedor than those other names would either, including Big Nog and Cro Cop.

So with saying that the divisions look even to me. Now in terms of which division has the better fights for Fedor. You have two top tier heavyweights in Lesnar and Mir, and two in Overeem and Barnett. Again, that seems even to me.

No man, you have to throw Couture in there as well. And I guarantee there's only a limited of people who believe Overeem and Barnett are top competition to Fedor as the three names I mentioned are.

 

[Marquis]

Lol... okay. Better question: Out of everyone out there, who would be Fedor's toughest opponent?

Lesnar and Overeem. Lesnar because if Fedor doesn't scramble properly(which I'm sure he will) he will be in for a long night of lay and pray. Overeem for being well rounded, but also having notable stand up with knocking out Badr Hari.

I understand what you're saying, but Randy Couture is not human. And to me, there's not a big difference between 45 and 46. If he could perform that well at 45 years young, then I strongly believe he can carry that on to age 46. A year off only helps a man his age, in fact.

Really? I would think the amount of inactivity would not help him at all, infact hurt him. A rest is fine, but that much inactivity can not help anyone. I also believe he can still be a threat at HW, but he needs to prove it. Which he has the chance to against Big Nog.

What makes me doubt Rogers so much if that every fight I've seen him in thus far, his opponents were all strictly stand-up fighters, who weren't very good at it to begin with.

Well he has to fight either Werdum or Overeem eventually no matter what. So a fight with one of those two should tell us where his ground game is. Just keep in mind he is young with a 10-0 record.

We'll agree to disagree here. Even though they'll most likely never face each other as I don't see Rogers going to the UFC anytime soon, I do believe time will tell that Dos Santos is the much better fighter nonetheless.

Time will tell which of the two is the better the fighter. Rogers sooner then Dos Santos.

Maybe. I wouldn't put money on it, but it's definitely a possibility.

Anything is a possibility in this sport, but the fact that you wouldn't put your money on it tells me no, you don't think the CroCop of today can beat Barnett.

Fair enough. I still think Cro Cop would defeat Monson and Werdum, though.

Well you can keep thinking that, but CroCop has yet to prove he can hang with any legit HW these days. We will agree to disagree.

I said Cro Cop was at the bottom of my list when it came to the Heavyweights in the UFC, so I really don't think that highly of him. Hell, I think he's on his way to losing against Dos Santos. However, I do believe he's still CLEARLY better than 2 out of the 4 guys you mentioned.

Well i do hold CroCop in high regard, he is my all time favorite fighter, but i do realize hes on a big slump right now, and has yet to prove he can hang with even mid tier heavyweights.

Monson couldn't submit Sylvia, Nog could. So, there you go on that one. As far as Werdum, well maybe you have a point, but I'm sure you'll agree that Nog is way more well rounded than Werdum overall.

Again though, Monson has improved since then, while Nog has looked quite bad in his last fight. As for Nog being more well rounded? Prior to Mir i would have agreed, but not sure about now. Werdum's stand up is no where near Nog's i would say, but he has some decent leg kicks.

The less people who want to see you, the more your name slips down in value, so yes... I do think it counts for something and hurts a fighter's credibility. People will never look at Barnett the same after this. For example, if Barnett did defeat Fedor now, people would believe it would only be because of steroids. How does that not hurt Barnett's credibility?

So should we take into account all pride fights? I'm sure more then half of the fighters in pride were juiced up. If Barnett loses to Fedor, sure, come with the excuse train. I don't think it should take anything away. A wins a win in my book. Does Steroids give Barnett better technique? More talent? Better skill? Just a better body. Most heavyweights have a better body then Fedor.

Sorry about that, I misread it. But I did bring up Overeem's name later, and he's been suspected of using 'roids. He's never failed a drug test, but looking at him and the fact that he's fought in Japan, who as you yourself mentioned earlier is notorious for its lack of drug tests, leads people to suspect that he's been on steroids. Hell, just look at this:

I promise that's not Photoshoped. If you go to Google and type in Overeem's name, 'alistair overeem steroids' will be the most searched thing for him. So, yes... he is a SUSPECTED steroid abuser. It's not proven, but obviously... a lot of people out there think he's done them.

He's suspected, that's fine, but the man has fought stateside under the strikeforce banner. Until proven otherwise, he is clean. I wanted to share this also

But what makes you think he would be able to get Kongo down in the first place?

Monson was a division 1 wrestler at Oregon state. Also a pac-10 champion. I'm sure he can take Kongo down.

I think I did misinterpret that a little bit, but at the same time... you can't list Monson as among the names out there who Fedor has yet to fought against as one of his toughest competition, when there are clearly more names in the UFC who could take Monson out.

Never said toughest, i said decent in my first post. A division 1 wrestler with fine BJJ credentials and some notable wins seems like a decent threat to me. And no, I don't think a good number of HW"s in the UFC can take out Monson.

Credible is one thing, in Fedor's league is completely another.

No one is in Fedor's league, no one has to the record to show it.

That I can admit to, though I still disagree.

Agree to disagree as usual.

No, as of now, I admit Overeem is a top tier Heavyweight, whose fucking injured right now, and most known for punching Cro Cop's nuts more than anything.

Well his hand is fine if i remember reading, just pulled out to make sure. Better safe then sorry, besides we should be happy he didn't lose his hand in the ass kicking he gave those bouncers. And if someone remembers Overeem mostly for busting CroCops nuts, then they need to educate themselves more.

Barnett, as great of fighter as he is... you can't really put him in the top tier Heavyweights until he redeems himself, which is no guarantee he ever will.

Why can you not put him up there? I don't understand how this steroid issue all of sudden discredits his whole record. He will remain a top fighter, and should be one. His reputation may be ruined, but not his history and credibility as a fighter.

Ignoring what I just said, Barnett and Overeem at the top of their game... I think Lesnar and Mir would defeat both of them, especially Overeem.

I think Lesnar would beat Barnett, but i feel Overeem would knockout Lesnar. As for Mir, I'm not sure about who would take a fight between him and Barnett. I would lean towards Mir via TKO. Overeem and Mir seem very similar to me. Except one of them excels at stand up, Overeem, and Mir excels in his ground game. That one seems hard to call also.

But that's not fair to bring up Fedor, lol, because the discussion is where Fedor's toughest competition is. Of course with Fedor outside of the UFC, it even things up a little bit, but still... that's not what we're discussing.

It is fair since I am under the impression we are both discussing how even the divisions are, and which has more top competition for Fedor. As of now, and forever most likely, Fedor will remain a outside the UFC heavyweight.

I still don't think Monson and Werdum would stand a chance against any of those guys, and another point to be brought up... I don't think they would put up a better fight against Fedor than those other names would either, including Big Nog and Cro Cop.

Lol CroCop, I've bashed him enough already, but really Jmt. He hasn't even beaten a mid tier fighter in the past two years, but anyway. I truly believe Monson and Werdum can submit quite a few heavyweights, if not all of them, except for who i consider the top tier Heavyweights.

No man, you have to throw Couture in there as well. And I guarantee there's only a limited of people who believe Overeem and Barnett are top competition to Fedor as the three names I mentioned are.

I'll throw Couture in when he beats Big Nog, and I'm not sure who these people are, but if they are over looking Barnett and Overeem for mister 4-1, and Mir, then they should look up Overeem and Barnett more.

 

[jmt225]

Lesnar and Overeem. Lesnar because if Fedor doesn't scramble properly(which I'm sure he will) he will be in for a long night of lay and pray. Overeem for being well rounded, but also having notable stand up with knocking out Badr Hari.

Overeem is well rounded, but not in one aspect is he better than Fedor. Fedor has better stand-up, ground game, and wrestling. At least Brock has Fedor beat at one thing, which of course is wrestling (and also has such a huge size advantage). So at the end of the day, I'd say Brock's his toughest opponent out there.

Really? I would think the amount of inactivity would not help him at all, infact hurt him. A rest is fine, but that much inactivity can not help anyone. I also believe he can still be a threat at HW, but he needs to prove it. Which he has the chance to against Big Nog.

Yes, it hasn't hurt him before, so why should it now?

I guess it's a moot point at the end of the day, because come late August, we'll all find out for ourselves. I just hope the best Nog there possibly can be shows up, instead of the one we saw fight Mir.

Well he has to fight either Werdum or Overeem eventually no matter what. So a fight with one of those two should tell us where his ground game is. Just keep in mind he is young with a 10-0 record.

Fair enough.

Time will tell which of the two is the better the fighter. Rogers sooner then Dos Santos.

I don't know about that one. Dos Santos has Cro Cop up next, and if he wins, then he should be on to some big fights.

Anything is a possibility in this sport, but the fact that you wouldn't put your money on it tells me no, you don't think the CroCop of today can beat Barnett.

I wouldn't put my money on Brock Lesnar beating Fedor, but I do believe it can happen. Same case here. And the fact remains, at the end of the day, Cro Cop is 3-0 against Barnett.

Well you can keep thinking that, but CroCop has yet to prove he can hang with any legit HW these days. We will agree to disagree.

But when you look at his fights, he hasn't shown that he couldn't either. The loss against Gonzaga was a fluke, Kongo should've gotten points deducted, and even though he was technically losing the Overeem fight, it was still a No Contest at the end of the day, against a very talented fight, the one you claim is Fedor's toughest opponent out there. So, again man, while Cro Cop might not have any big wins lately, you still can't technically count him out.

Well i do hold CroCop in high regard, he is my all time favorite fighter, but i do realize hes on a big slump right now, and has yet to prove he can hang with even mid tier heavyweights.

Fair enough, but just like with Couture, time will tell. Though, like I said earlier, I do think Dos Santos will have his number. After that though, I expect Cro Cop to rebound hard against some of the fighters I'm sure the UFC will throw at him.

Again though, Monson has improved since then, while Nog has looked quite bad in his last fight. As for Nog being more well rounded? Prior to Mir i would have agreed, but not sure about now. Werdum's stand up is no where near Nog's i would say, but he has some decent leg kicks.

There was something wrong with Nog in that Mir fight; we've talked about this before. So, you can't really count that against him, in my opinion. And no matter what you say Marquis, I do not believe you believe Monson could ever defeat Big Nog.

So should we take into account all pride fights? I'm sure more then half of the fighters in pride were juiced up. If Barnett loses to Fedor, sure, come with the excuse train. I don't think it should take anything away. A wins a win in my book. Does Steroids give Barnett better technique? More talent? Better skill? Just a better body. Most heavyweights have a better body then Fedor.

Barnett is very skilled, though. A lot of those Pride fighters who were on 'roids sucked shit (with the exception of someone like Wandy, who you can see now off the 'roids,isn't fairing so well), especially the Heavyweights. The point is... steroids will give someone as skilled as Barnett an advantage. Fedor can catch guys like Mark Coleman and Hong-Man Choi in submissions, but it's not going to be so easy against Barnett. So if Barnett is juiced up and able to lay 'n pray, it's not a fair fight at the end of the day and people will discredit him for it.

He's suspected, that's fine, but the man has fought stateside under the strikeforce banner. Until proven otherwise, he is clean.

Fair enough.

And as far as that picture goes, look, I'm all for innocent until proven guilty, but that looks like a man 'roided up to me, lol.

Monson was a division 1 wrestler at Oregon state. Also a pac-10 champion. I'm sure he can take Kongo down.

I think there's too much of a height difference for that happen, personally. If he couldn't take Sylvia down, I don't think he'd be able to take Kongo down.

Never said toughest, i said decent in my first post. A division 1 wrestler with fine BJJ credentials and some notable wins seems like a decent threat to me. And no, I don't think a good number of HW"s in the UFC can take out Monson.

Well, we'll just agree to disagree here.

No one is in Fedor's league, no one has to the record to show it.

Anderson Silva's in Fedor's league.

Well his hand is fine if i remember reading, just pulled out to make sure. Better safe then sorry, besides we should be happy he didn't lose his hand in the ass kicking he gave those bouncers. And if someone remembers Overeem mostly for busting CroCops nuts, then they need to educate themselves more.

Fair enough.

Still though, Overeem's been sidelined just as long as Couture, I'd like to point out.

Why can you not put him up there? I don't understand how this steroid issue all of sudden discredits his whole record. He will remain a top fighter, and should be one. His reputation may be ruined, but not his history and credibility as a fighter.

See, that's where I think you're wrong, because I don't think people will take Barnett seriously anymore. People will look at him as a disgrace, who single handily killed Affliction's fight promotion. That's going to leave a huge stigma on the rest of his career, one I personally believe he'll never be able to rebound from.

I think Lesnar would beat Barnett, but i feel Overeem would knockout Lesnar.

Whoa... that's a bold statement, my friend.

Seriously, I don't think Overeem would stand a chance at stopping Lesnar's takedowns.

As for Mir, I'm not sure about who would take a fight between him and Barnett. I would lean towards Mir via TKO. Overeem and Mir seem very similar to me. Except one of them excels at stand up, Overeem, and Mir excels in his ground game. That one seems hard to call also.

Well, you know I'm a Mir mark and have the utmost respect for him. To be completely honest, right now... the only Heavyweights I think can defeat Mir are Lesnar and Couture. Everyone else, including Fedor, I think Mir would be able to take. I know that's a bold statement on my part, but I truly, honestly believe that.

It is fair since I am under the impression we are both discussing how even the divisions are, and which has more top competition for Fedor. As of now, and forever most likely, Fedor will remain a outside the UFC heavyweight.

Which sucks, right? I mean, whether you want to claim there are good Heavyweights for him to fight outside of the UFC, you do want Fedor in the UFC at the end of the day, don't you? Ignoring the fact that now it looks like it'll never happen, wouldn't you rather see Fedor face UFC's top Heavyweights and maybe a dream match against Anderson Silva, rather than the names you listed outside of the UFC?

Lol CroCop, I've bashed him enough already, but really Jmt. He hasn't even beaten a mid tier fighter in the past two years, but anyway. I truly believe Monson and Werdum can submit quite a few heavyweights, if not all of them, except for who i consider the top tier Heavyweights.

They could submit Cro Cop if it were a Jiu-Jitsu contest, Cro Cop would knock their ass out in a MMA fight, though.

Seriously... even with his recent mishaps, when was the last time Cro Cop got submitted anyway?

I'll throw Couture in when he beats Big Nog, and I'm not sure who these people are, but if they are over looking Barnett and Overeem for mister 4-1, and Mir, then they should look up Overeem and Barnett more.

Lol, fair enough I guess.

 

[Marquis]

Overeem is well rounded, but not in one aspect is he better than Fedor. Fedor has better stand-up, ground game, and wrestling. At least Brock has Fedor beat at one thing, which of course is wrestling (and also has such a huge size advantage). So at the end of the day, I'd say Brock's his toughest opponent out there.

Well if you put Fedor in a K-1 fight against Overeem, my money would be on Overeem. So if Overeem can possibly beat Fedor in a pure strikng match, like Lesnar could in a wrestling match, i would say they are equal threats, but since Overeem is more well rounded I see him more of a threat.

Yes, it hasn't hurt him before, so why should it now?

When hasn't it effected him? When he beat Sylvia? Doesn't take much to beat him apparently. Didn't help him for his Brock fight, maybe I'm missing an example here you can list.

I guess it's a moot point at the end of the day, because come late August, we'll all find out for ourselves. I just hope the best Nog there possibly can be shows up, instead of the one we saw fight Mir.

I also hope a different Nog shows up then the one in the Mir fight.

I don't know about that one. Dos Santos has Cro Cop up next, and if he wins, then he should be on to some big fights.

Yes, but Rogers next fight is a big one. Unlike Santos's. Thus why Roger can prove himself quicker.

I wouldn't put my money on Brock Lesnar beating Fedor, but I do believe it can happen. Same case here. And the fact remains, at the end of the day, Cro Cop is 3-0 against Barnett.

If you are not willing to put your money then you think logically they wouldn't win, or else you put the money down.

But when you look at his fights, he hasn't shown that he couldn't either. The loss against Gonzaga was a fluke, Kongo should've gotten points deducted, and even though he was technically losing the Overeem fight, it was still a No Contest at the end of the day, against a very talented fight, the one you claim is Fedor's toughest opponent out there. So, again man, while Cro Cop might not have any big wins lately, you still can't technically count him out.

See all that is fine and dandy, but none of it is proof to still count him in. Fact is at the end of the day he lost to Kongo and Gonzaga, and was getting tooled by Overeem.

Fair enough, but just like with Couture, time will tell. Though, like I said earlier, I do think Dos Santos will have his number. After that though, I expect Cro Cop to rebound hard against some of the fighters I'm sure the UFC will throw at him.

You mean rebound off more Al-turks?

There was something wrong with Nog in that Mir fight; we've talked about this before. So, you can't really count that against him, in my opinion. And no matter what you say Marquis, I do not believe you believe Monson could ever defeat Big Nog.

Well if the Nog in the Mir fight shows up, i don't know how you don't think Monson will win. We will see if Nog was just having a bad day when he fights Randy.

Barnett is very skilled, though. A lot of those Pride fighters who were on 'roids sucked shit (with the exception of someone like Wandy, who you can see now off the 'roids,isn't fairing so well), especially the Heavyweights. The point is... steroids will give someone as skilled as Barnett an advantage. Fedor can catch guys like Mark Coleman and Hong-Man Choi in submissions, but it's not going to be so easy against Barnett. So if Barnett is juiced up and able to lay 'n pray, it's not a fair fight at the end of the day and people will discredit him for it.

Coleman was on roids I'm sure, Fedor did fine with him. Now I'm not saying Barnett is Coleman in anyway, but the fact is its a good chance in pride, where Fedor made his name, that most of the fighters were roided up. Don't see this being any different. Fedor should be used to fighting roiders, and his fans shouldn't see it as something new in Fedor's career.

And as far as that picture goes, look, I'm all for innocent until proven guilty, but that looks like a man 'roided up to me, lol.

He's probably on the Norcal diet and supplements.

I think there's too much of a height difference for that happen, personally. If he couldn't take Sylvia down, I don't think he'd be able to take Kongo down.

Well Sylvia weighs 20 pounds or more then Kongo, and is much taller. So having trouble taking Sylvia down i can understand, but Kongo is shorter and lighter then Sylvia.

Anderson Silva's in Fedor's league.

Now you're just blatantly baiting me Lol.

Still though, Overeem's been sidelined just as long as Couture, I'd like to point out.

Well at least he was fighting bouncers during his sidelining.

See, that's where I think you're wrong, because I don't think people will take Barnett seriously anymore. People will look at him as a disgrace, who single handily killed Affliction's fight promotion. That's going to leave a huge stigma on the rest of his career, one I personally believe he'll never be able to rebound from.

I agree with all that, but i fail to see how it changes the fighter he was. This steroid issue doesn't magically change his record.

Whoa... that's a bold statement, my friend.

Seriously, I don't think Overeem would stand a chance at stopping Lesnar's takedowns.

Well Assuming Overeem isn't as a dumb as Mir, he would at least try to scramble to his feet. Where he can easily get a KO, on the ground hes no chump himself.

Well, you know I'm a Mir mark and have the utmost respect for him. To be completely honest, right now... the only Heavyweights I think can defeat Mir are Lesnar and Couture. Everyone else, including Fedor, I think Mir would be able to take. I know that's a bold statement on my part, but I truly, honestly believe that.

I agree with what you said except throw in Overeem. Again, they are very similar fighters. Except one excels at the ground, and one on the feet.

Which sucks, right? I mean, whether you want to claim there are good Heavyweights for him to fight outside of the UFC, you do want Fedor in the UFC at the end of the day, don't you? Ignoring the fact that now it looks like it'll never happen, wouldn't you rather see Fedor face UFC's top Heavyweights and maybe a dream match against Anderson Silva, rather than the names you listed outside of the UFC?

Well like i said in my original post, i would love to see Fedor in the UFC for a dream fight with Mir.

They could submit Cro Cop if it were a Jiu-Jitsu contest, Cro Cop would knock their ass out in a MMA fight, though.

CroCop has decent takedown defense, but I'm not sure these days. You base a lot of CroCop on the past, but hes been on a slump. I know you THINK he can rebound and all that crap, but he has yet to prove it.

Seriously... even with his recent mishaps, when was the last time Cro Cop got submitted anyway?

By Big Nog i think way back in 03. One thing we have to remember is a ring isn't really ground friendly. While a cage is. Though to be fair, i still don't think he would get submitted.

 

[jmt225]

Well if you put Fedor in a K-1 fight against Overeem, my money would be on Overeem. So if Overeem can possibly beat Fedor in a pure strikng match, like Lesnar could in a wrestling match, i would say they are equal threats, but since Overeem is more well rounded I see him more of a threat.

Well, I'm not so sure about that. While Fedor's kicking is pretty much non-existent, his boxing is still incredible and he has unbelievable knockout power. I think overall, while Overeem obviously has more tools, Fedor still has the advantage on the feet because his boxing just overshadows everything Overeem offers there.

When hasn't it effected him? When he beat Sylvia? Doesn't take much to beat him apparently. Didn't help him for his Brock fight, maybe I'm missing an example here you can list.

But he looked great against Brock, had that fight going his way before he got caught. I mean, you really think about it... if Brock doesn't land that one punch, Randy Couture most likely goes on to win that fight.

Yes, but Rogers next fight is a big one. Unlike Santos's. Thus why Roger can prove himself quicker.

Who is his next fight? I haven't heard anything about it. If you're assuming his next fight will be a big one, than you could be wrong on that one. He very well could end up fighting a tomato next.

If you are not willing to put your money then you think logically they wouldn't win, or else you put the money down.

Well, I don't bet at all on MMA anyway, so there.

Seriously though, you put a gun to my head and tell me to pick a winner, I think I would go with Cro Cop at the end of the day. Honestly.

See all that is fine and dandy, but none of it is proof to still count him in. Fact is at the end of the day he lost to Kongo and Gonzaga, and was getting tooled by Overeem.

While what I said doesn't prove anything, nothing you can say either makes it fact that he's still not an excellent fighter. Nothing has exactly been "proven" yet when it comes to Cro Cop.

You mean rebound off more Al-turks?

He'll get a can if he loses, and then he'll get another big fight after that. If he somehow wins against Dos Santos though in old Cro Cop fashion, then all the wondering and speculation is over.

Well if the Nog in the Mir fight shows up, i don't know how you don't think Monson will win. We will see if Nog was just having a bad day when he fights Randy.

Even the Nog in the Mir fight would beat Monson striking wise, lol. Monson sucks on the feet, man. As far as the ground game goes, I still would see Nog holding his own. He probably wouldn't be able to catch Monson, but I HIGHLY doubt Monson would be able to catch him. The fight would go to a decision with Nog winning. If Nog is his normal self, then he finishes off Monson with ease.

Coleman was on roids I'm sure, Fedor did fine with him. Now I'm not saying Barnett is Coleman in anyway, but the fact is its a good chance in pride, where Fedor made his name, that most of the fighters were roided up. Don't see this being any different. Fedor should be used to fighting roiders, and his fans shouldn't see it as something new in Fedor's career.

Yeah, but my point was that the guys he did fight on 'roids obviously weren't as skillful as Barnett is all around. Coleman for example doesn't have the ground game Barnett does. Same case for someone like Kevin Randleman. Fedor getting overpowered by those guys was okay because he could easily catch them on the ground. However, if Barnett is using, it makes it an extremely harder fight for Fedor than those other guys because as I said, it's not easy to catch Barnett like it is someone like Coleman or Randleman.

He's probably on the Norcal diet and supplements.

lol

Well Sylvia weighs 20 pounds or more then Kongo, and is much taller. So having trouble taking Sylvia down i can understand, but Kongo is shorter and lighter then Sylvia.

Kongo's still very tall though, and there's no way Sylvia is stronger than Kongo. No way in hell.

See the difference? lol

I agree with all that, but i fail to see how it changes the fighter he was. This steroid issue doesn't magically change his record.

Fair enough.

Well Assuming Overeem isn't as a dumb as Mir, he would at least try to scramble to his feet. Where he can easily get a KO, on the ground hes no chump himself.

It's not so easy to scramble away from Brock though. Once that monster gets his hands on you, and with his quickness and aggressiveness, he will eventually.... there's no stopping him from taking you down.

I agree with what you said except throw in Overeem. Again, they are very similar fighters. Except one excels at the ground, and one on the feet.

I actually think Mir would be able to hold his own against Overeem on the feet, and as you said he definitely has the ground advantage. So, overall, Mir takes it, in my opinion.

CroCop has decent takedown defense, but I'm not sure these days. You base a lot of CroCop on the past, but hes been on a slump. I know you THINK he can rebound and all that crap, but he has yet to prove it.

He has been on a slump against guys who are strictly stand-up fighters. And as I explained, one was because of one kick, one was because he kept getting kicked in the balls, and the other you could argue his opponent was just superior, even with it being another case of someone repeatedly hitting Cro Cop's poor, poor balls, lol.

 

[jmt225]

Okay, to ignore Marquis and I's discussion for a bit and get back fully to the topic at hand, Fedor just a few hours ago gave this sit down interview with Sherdog to explain his side of things:

[youtube]tyXfTFjPF2w[/youtube]​

So, yeah... everything I said earlier, I take back.

How can you not love this motherfucker? He's so humble, respectful, and laid back. You will not find any athlete as good as their sport as he is at his, and still be like that, especially in America.

Anyway, he pretty much put all the rumors to rest and made sense of everything. The UFC did not offer that list of things I posted earlier, and you can understand how him wanting to fulfill his contract with M-1 Global does fuck up this entire negotiating process.