UFC 94: St-Pierre Vs Penn

[Marquis]

Main Card
Welterweight Championship: Georges St-Pierre vs. B.J. Penn
Light Heavyweight: Lyoto Machida vs. Thiago Silva
Light Heavyweight: Stephan Bonnar vs. Jon Jones
Welterweight: Karo Parisyan vs. Dong Hyun Kim
Lightweight bout: Nate Diaz vs. Clay Guida

Preliminary Card
Welterweight: Jon Fitch vs. Akihiro Gono
Lightweight: Thiago Tavares vs. Manvel Gamburyan
Welterweight: John Howard vs. Chris Wilson
Heavyweight: Jake O’Brien vs. Christian Wellisch
Welterweight: Matt Arroyo vs. Dan Cramer

Made this thread so we can also discuss the other fights on the card besides Georges and BJ.

Georges St-Pierre Vs BJ Penn. I'll start this off by saying i hope Georges dominates Penn. Hyping a fight or not, he does too much shit talking and i pray Georges shuts him up. Georges is probably my 2nd all time favorite fighter, so anytime a see him fight i am excited. But this isn't just any fight, no this in my opinion is the UFC's biggest fight to date. Their last fight ended in a split decision so I'm sure they both want to finish this in a decisive way. While both these fighters are amazing at every single aspect of MMA, the 2 things that probably stand out the most is BJ's stand up and Georges wrestling. BJ was picking George apart with his stand up last fight till he gassed. While judging from BJ's training videos its safe to say he will come in with better Cardio then last time, it won't save him in my opinion. I see Georges going for the takedown and controlling him on the ground with his obvious strength advantage. BJ is a BJJ champ, but the same way Hughes controlled Penn on the ground i see Georges doing. I say George via UD.

The fight that probably stands out the most aside from the main event would probably be Lyoto vs Thiago. Dana is already calling Lyoto the future p4p best fighter and for good reasons. Thiago is a very aggressive fighter, opposite of what Lyoto is. I see Thiago getting flustered with Lyoto's style thus making Lyoto capitalize on it to earn the UD. Also if Lyoto wins here, he will be crowned number 1 contender for Rashads title.

Nate Diaz Vs Clay Guida is my personal favorite fight on this card aside from the main event. You have two of the best and in my opinion most exciting lightweights going at it. I am a Diaz fan, but i don't see this fight going well for him. Guida's style is perfect to counter Nate's. I think Guida will keep the pressure on him non stop and score takedowns, thus making it hard for Nate to pull out a sub. I say Guida via UD for this one.

Karo Parisyan vs. Dong Hyun Kim. There is already rumors going around that Karo might not make it to this Saturdays fight, ether way this is a very tough one to call. Both are excellent Judo practitioners, so they should be pretty even on the ground. Standing i would give the edge to Karo no doubt. I'm pulling for Dong on this one and think he will wear out Karo and ground and pound him for the victory in the 3rd round.

As for the others fights. Jones Vs Bonnar should be a good slugfest. If in good health i say Bonnar takes this, hes simply just great at every aspect of the fight game. Problem is we don't know how his recent injuries have affected him. I am a big bonnar fan and hope he comes in at 100%. I say Bonnar via sub round 1.

Gono Vs Fitch, If Fitch keeps the fight standing i see him getting the TKO victory over Gono. I say Fitch round 2 KO.

P.S This fight should not be on the undercard..

 

[CENAtion]

We aer only a few hours away from this epic bout. We are about to see history made one wy or another, either Penn holding two titles at once, or GSP surplanting himself as a true legen probable hall of famer and possibly the best pound for pound fighter in the world. I believe the latter is going to happen. Penn to me just is unimpressive, its one thing to dominate the lightweight division but you are now going up against someone who is bigger, stronger, faster, in better shape, a better wrestler, just as good at striking, and in my eyes a better bjj fighter, and with far surperior conditioning. Penn's best shot is a lucky punch. If he cant connect i take GSP by third round knockout or winning by unanimous decision and just mopping the floor with him.

 

[jmt225]

Man, how ironic is it that Lyoto Machida, Mr. Decision himself, was the only person to truly stop his opponent last night? Unbelievable. Every single other fight was decided by decision, with the exception of GSP/Penn, which came from a corner stoppage.

Anyway, I just really want to comment on two fights.

Nate Diaz vs. Clay Guida was fucking awesome, just as I expected, though I didn't agree with the judge's decision at all. I feel like Nate stopped every one of Guida's takedowns except for one or two, and I thought by defending everything Guida tried to do on the ground to perfection and the fact that Diaz COMPLETELY controlled the stand-up was enough for him to get the decision. Though, I must say hadn't Diaz tried that ridiculous shot in the first round when he was picking apart Guida on stand-up, he would've won that round decisively in every judge's minds. I think that alone is what cost him the fight at the end of the day, even though I disagree with the judge's decision.

But oh well I guess. I really like Guida and I think Nate Diaz loses nothing in this fight in Dana's eyes or anyone else in a top position in the UFC.

Also, fuck EliteXC. God I miss Nick Diaz. And the fact that those assholes are refusing to let him and all their PREVIOUS fighters out of their contracts is complete bullshit. Fuck it pisses me off to the fullest.

And lastly, of course I have to comment on the main event. Man, GSP was just awesome. I predicted he was going to win, but I really thought BJ would put up a better fight. And while Penn has nothing to be ashamed of, GSP completely dominated him.

I think with that performance last night, there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that right now GSP is p4p the best fighter in the World. I love Anderson Silva, but let's face facts. Silva has yet dominate someone who ranks up there in competition like GSP just dominated someone as incredibility talented as BJ Penn, and also Jon Fitch for that matter. The guy is unbelievable and seems to keep getting better and better. I don't see anyone in the Welterweight Division beating him anytime soon (I always thought Diego Sanchez would stand a chance, but he moved down to Lightweight for some strange reason, and I think Nick Diaz could put up a good fight against GSP, but that of course isn't happening anytime soon).

 

[Mr. TM]

Welterweight Championship: Georges St-Pierre vs. B.J. Penn
The main event was incredible. After the fourth round had ended, we were all very excited to see George St. Pierre get the knock out. Too bad it didn't happen, but it was still an incredible fight. Penn just didn't seem confident in himself the entire night. He was saved by the macadian nut head he has.


Light Heavyweight: Lyoto Machida vs. Thiago Silva
The only match with a knock out, I went with Machida on this one. He looked ready the entire night and put on a great display of defense first.

Light Heavyweight: Stephan Bonnar vs. Jon Jones
Jon Jones may have become one of my favourite fighters after last night. He put on a great display last night, very unorthadox, but very effective. Went to the judges, and he was the clean favourite.

Welterweight: Karo Parisyan vs. Dong Hyun Kim
Boring match here, I was expecting something better from these two judo styled fighters. Kim was my favorite in this match, except for the see through tighty whities.

Lightweight bout: Nate Diaz vs. Clay Guida
I was disappointed with the match overall and the descision. I gave the match to Diaz in my books, but overall, it was a ton of bear hugging and not enough brawling. Clay needs a fucking hair cut if he wants to be able to see in the ring.

 

[Kasey]

I was very happy with the card when it comes right down to it. The main event didn't go the way I hoped, but then again I was on the underdog wagon rootin' for Penn, so I'm not that crushed by it. Besides, he has bigger fish to fry at 155, anyhow (Florian should be a great matchup). I'm very disappointed to hear about the apparent greasing that GSP was involved in. Especially that several other fighters have now come forward about it. The sad thing is that I don't think GSP would even need it...but that doesn't dispense him from potentially being a dirty fucking cheat anyway.

Lyoto continues to impress the hell out of me and he completely stymied Silva in every sense of the word. Lyoto basically packed his lunch...bundled him up...and promptly bought him a first class ticket on the pain train. I still think it's stupid as all hell to have Rampage fighting Jardine to see if he gets the next shot at the LHW title. Lyoto has disposed of everyone they've put in front of him. How many fucking victories does it take to get a shot at a title? The obligatory Fitch count of eight? Don't even get me going on Fitch being relegated to the undercard...oh, but at least we got to watch Missile-Tits Parisyan work his "magic."

As for the Diaz/Guida fight? I loved the outcome. The Unified Rules scoring system is flawed. However, it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy (note my galactic proportions of sarcasm on this one). I can't fucking stand the Diaz brothers and am glad to watch anytime they lose. Especially when Nate's highlights for the fight involved a couple of gimme leg sweeps and proving that he does have ape arms. At least his wrestling is top notch, right? You'd have thought that seeing his own brother lose in the same type of fight to Sherk would've prompted both of them to focus more on actually stuffing takedowns and wrestling better. Then again, neither of them typically has shit for head movement with their boxing, either (although Nate is better than Nick...but that's not saying jack-shit).

The biggest revelation was watching Jon Jones' performance. If that kid gets his cardio/pacing issues under wraps and learns how to pick his spots, then the rest of the division better pay serious attention. That kid's hips are amazing when it comes to throws. Shit, he practically busted out a pro-wrestling match on Bonnar and even with a low gas tank pulled out the best armlock belly-to-belly since Gangrel was allowed to run around on Monday Nights. Good stuff.

Cumulatively? A good night.

 

[Mr. TM]

I was very happy with the card when it comes right down to it. The main event didn't go the way I hoped, but then again I was on the underdog wagon rootin' for Penn, so I'm not that crushed by it. Besides, he has bigger fish to fry at 155, anyhow (Florian should be a great matchup). I'm very disappointed to hear about the apparent greasing that GSP was involved in. Especially that several other fighters have now come forward about it. The sad thing is that I don't think GSP would even need it...but that doesn't dispense him from potentially being a dirty fucking cheat anyway.

A controversy arose during the fight when GSP's cornermen were caught rubbing GSP down with vaseline. Chuck Liddell, who was watching from the crowd, saw St-Pierre's cornermen rubbing him down and said something to the commission, who intervened. Members of the NSAC came into the octagon and wiped St-Pierre's torso down, though no significant amounts of vaseline were discovered. St-Pierre's camp claim the rubbing was part of a ritual to line up St-Pierre's energy, and apologized for any vaseline that may have been transferred to his body. Though his corner denies any wrongdoing, Penn's corner complained about St-Pierre possibly being lubricated after their first fight. Jason Miller and Matt Serra also have come out with similar claims, though all but the St-Pierre vs Penn II fight incident remain unsubstantiated.

You know I hate this, People call him a cheater because he is fucking unstoppable. He is the hardest working man in the business, and no one can stand up to him it seems. So they have to look for ways to make him look like a loser. The Commissioner also stated that he suspects the rumours were for the most part false, and GSP won a great fight.

Heck, if GSP had been grease up, it still is no different, GSP dominated the match as it was. Penn was scared from the beginning and had no answer for GSP's speed.

 

[Kasey]

You know I hate this, People call him a cheater because he is fucking unstoppable. He is the hardest working man in the business, and no one can stand up to him it seems. So they have to look for ways to make him look like a loser. The Commissioner also stated that he suspects the rumours were for the most part false, and GSP won a great fight.

Heck, if GSP had been grease up, it still is no different, GSP dominated the match as it was. Penn was scared from the beginning and had no answer for GSP's speed.

I would agree with you...however several other fighters have apparently gone on record solidifying the claims that were made. Sherk, Mayhem, and Serra have corroborated the issue (and apparently is was Serra's camp that informed Penn's crew BEFORE the fight even went down). Since Penn's camp was warned BEFORE the fight and made it vocal the commission members in attendance knew what to look out for, which is why they went over to make sure GSP was wiped down between the first and second rounds.

I'd never doubt GSP's work ethic (except before the first Serra fight). It's obvious that he busts his ass and is a phenomenal fighter. However, when not one...but SEVERAL other fighters make mention of this same thing (and so far I've only read the comments from Mayhem) then I definitely begin to wonder. If it's true, it disgusts me to high heaven because that motherfucker doesn't need to cheat. The only thing this does is taint his legacy, credibility and especially his reputation (as well as the sport). It'll also bring into question the results of his fights as this may or may not have been going on since 2005.

Time will tell as to whether or not his amazing ground-and-pound was aided substantially by cheating. I honestly think that he still would've won every fight he did, regardless. However, they damn sure wouldn't have been the cakewalks they ended up being for the guy. He'd have to earn his money a little bit more. Besides, in a sport where PED busts are a common occurrence, I wouldn't put it past someone (even a supposed saint like Georges) to look for every advantage possible.

GSP did win a great and smart fight. However, with these questions and the registered grievance filed by Penn's attorneys, the shit may still hit the fan. His next fight I can guarantee he'll be bone dry when he steps in the cage. Too bad he got fingered before a fight with Thiago. Because if he is a cheater, then he'd definitely need the advantage over this guy instead of BJ because Alves will come in heavier and won't be bullied by a 20-lb size advantage like B.J.'s midget ass was.

 

[Marquis]

Took me awhile to get to this, but i will finally post my thoughts on the PPV.

Guida Vs Diaz. Close match. While Diaz was obviously landing more damage then Guida, Guida did negate a couple of subs and had the overall better positions threw the fight. I gave this fight to Guida judging by UFC rules.

Lyoto vs Thiago. Not much to be said here. Thaigo wasn't as aggressive as i thought he would be, but Lyoto was very accurate with his countering as i thought he would be. Who woulda guessed the only KO of the night would come from Lyoto?

Bonnar vs Jones. I was very disapointed to see Bonnar lose this fight, while he did fight a very young and talented Jon Jones. I think Jones just caught him on a off night. Hopefully this was all just ring rust and we will see Bonnar back at 100% in his next fight.

St-Pierre vs Penn. Wow when i said Georges would control Penn on the ground the same way Hughes did, i did not expect it to go exactly that way. George dominated Penn both standing and on the ground. Making me very happy.

Now about the bullshit vaseline accusations. I just see it all as an excuse. The accusation has been made, so now all these people are coming out making the same accusation. The only person that i know of to say GSP was slippery after their fight was Serra. But even then Serra did not make a big deal out of it since it could have just been sweat. Am i gonna believe Mayhem? Fuck no. Hughes? Even less then Mayhem. Greg Jackson and GSP both said if BJ wants a rematch they'll give him one. Although i don't want to see a BJ vs GSP III. I say give them the fight so GSP can prove again why he is the better fighter then BJ at 170.

 

[imdamiz]

FIrst, I wasn't very impressed with this card now onto the fights:

Guida-Diaz:Found this fight to be very boring as Guida latched onto Diaz's back for a solid 3 minutes and didn't really do anything that impressive. Guida expressed intrest in a fight with Sean Sherk who I think would totally dominate Guida.

Kim-Paryisian: Though Kim had this fight won but Karo aka Sausage Tits somehow got the victory?? Put Karo back in there with some better competition and have him come in a bad shape like he did and he'll get slaughtered.

Jones-Bonnar:Was totally suprised by Jones' performance, thought Bonnar would outstrike him, take him down and work some ground and pound. Good showing by Jones just needs to work on his cardio a bit more as he moves up against competition.

Machida-Silva: SIlva looked a bit out of shape and he gave into Machida's plan of coming after him, until he got KTFO which is quite uncharacteric of Machida from what he's shown in the UFC

GSP-BJ: GSP dominated BJ who was out of shape. TO everyone saying this whole greasing thing isn't a big issue:yes it is. Go back and rewatch the fight, BJ was completly unable to work a high guard on GSP and everytime he brought his leg up it slipped. Also, Chuck Liddell pointed out to the SAC GSP was greasing. Something like this doesn't happen in several fights "accidently" as being claimed by GSP's corner. Also GSP is top 3 on p4p Fighters: Fedor whose only loss was a controversial cut stoppage re-cemented his place as the p4p King with his awesome KO of Arlovski. Anderson Silva is number 2 as he has maybe one or two serious contenders at 185 in Damian Maia and Michael Bisping. and then GSP, and if GSP wants to claim being the top p4p fighter in the world, then move up to 185 and fight.

 

[imdamiz]

Matt Hughes said after his second fight with GSP that GSP felt extremely slippery. And these guys have been fighting for a long time so I'm sure they can tell the difference between sweat and a foreign substance. Also, what has Matt Hughes done in his career where you wouldn't believe him?? He's a Legend in this sport, he's never cheated, he's been a great role model for young fighters....def someone who can't be believed

I say let GSP fight Alves and BJ fight Ken-Flo and they both win, hell let BJ/GSP III happen and let GSP wear a rash guard so theres no controversy.

 

[Marquis]

Matt Hughes said after his second fight with GSP that GSP felt extremely slippery. And these guys have been fighting for a long time so I'm sure they can tell the difference between sweat and a foreign substance. Also, what has Matt Hughes done in his career where you wouldn't believe him?? He's a Legend in this sport, he's never cheated, he's been a great role model for young fighters....def someone who can't be believed

I say let GSP fight Alves and BJ fight Ken-Flo and they both win, hell let BJ/GSP III happen and let GSP wear a rash guard so theres no controversy.

Foreign substance? You are aware there are a bunch of people keeping on eye on them while they are at there corner. It if it was anything, it can only be vaseline. Also just like how someone noticed it in his fight with BJ, don't you think someone would have noticed it during his Hughes fight?

As to why i do not take Hughes word for much, please read his book. I will not bother going into detail since there's almost something an every fuckin chapter that makes you questions Hughes character. If you do not wanna bother to read it look up a summary.

 

[imdamiz]

Foreign substance? You are aware there are a bunch of people keeping on eye on them while they are at there corner. It if it was anything, it can only be vaseline. Also just like how someone noticed it in his fight with BJ, don't you think someone would have noticed it during his Hughes fight?

As to why i do not take Hughes word for much, please read his book. I will not bother going into detail since there's almost something an every fuckin chapter that makes you questions Hughes character. If you do not wanna bother to read it look up a summary.

I'm sorry for using the words "foreign substance" but vasoline is what was meant by that sorry. Chuck Liddell is the one who noticed that GSP was greasing, not the NVSAC, Dana White, or anyone else, it was Chuck Liddell. Now whose to say that it hasn't happened before and it wasn't noticed?? It was done very casual which could easily be bypassed by many people during past fights. Hughes, Serra, Mayhem...those guys are in there fighting we aren't, they know if a guy is feeling extra slippery and its not just due to sweat. Also there are guys who rub vasoline into themselves days before they fight and then when they sweat it greases them up, although I'm not laying this claim to GSP, just stating another way to grease.

As for Hughes, I own his book and have read it several times, I love it. DOn't really find anything in it questioning his character, more like admiring his character, when he loses he accepts it and heads back to the gym harder than before to improve himself. i'd believe Hughes word over most of the other fighters in the UFC, including GSP.

 

[Marquis]

I'm sorry for using the words "foreign substance" but vasoline is what was meant by that sorry. Chuck Liddell is the one who noticed that GSP was greasing, not the NVSAC, Dana White, or anyone else, it was Chuck Liddell. Now whose to say that it hasn't happened before and it wasn't noticed?? It was done very casual which could easily be bypassed by many people during past fights. Hughes, Serra, Mayhem...those guys are in there fighting we aren't, they know if a guy is feeling extra slippery and its not just due to sweat. Also there are guys who rub vasoline into themselves days before they fight and then when they sweat it greases them up, although I'm not laying this claim to GSP, just stating another way to grease.

As for Hughes, I own his book and have read it several times, I love it. DOn't really find anything in it questioning his character, more like admiring his character, when he loses he accepts it and heads back to the gym harder than before to improve himself. i'd believe Hughes word over most of the other fighters in the UFC, including GSP.

Yes but just like how Chuck noticed it you would assume someone else would to, and if it has happened before and no one noticed, its not GSP's or his camps fault. For example if you look closely when GSP goes back to his corner at the end of round 1 during his recent match up with penn you can see the NSAC official standing next to him. Then at the end of round two you can't see much of GSP's corner, but you can see an official throw a towel on his back. Then at the end of round three there are two commission officials standing in his corner, and you see one clearly wipe him with a towel.

So what does this tell me? GSP's cornerman was just giving him a thai massage assuming nothing was wrong with it since no one called him on it. Bravo for Chuck for noticing something the NSAC officials did not even notice when they are standing right fucking infront of him.

When i read the Hughes book it did not cast him in a positive light. I recently started rereading it again so i can give you pinpoint examples of what i mean.

 

[Kasey]

Yes but just like how Chuck noticed it you would assume someone else would to, and if it has happened before and no one noticed, its not GSP's or his camps fault. For example if you look closely when GSP goes back to his corner at the end of round 1 during his recent match up with penn you can see the NSAC official standing next to him. Then at the end of round two you can't see much of GSP's corner, but you can see an official throw a towel on his back. Then at the end of round three there are two commission officials standing in his corner, and you see one clearly wipe him with a towel.

So what does this tell me? GSP's cornerman was just giving him a thai massage assuming nothing was wrong with it since no one called him on it. Bravo for Chuck for noticing something the NSAC officials did not even notice when they are standing right fucking infront of him.

When i read the Hughes book it did not cast him in a positive light. I recently started rereading it again so i can give you pinpoint examples of what i mean.

Actually, Serra's camp notified Penn's camp prior to the fight. The NSAC caught Nurse fucking around because they were tipped off pre-fight and knew what to look for. When a handful of fighters now come out mentioning what they thought were ill doings and even the UFC changes it's entire cornering policy, it doesn't paint a legit picture. Now I've even heard rumblings of fighters talking about Rashad doing this shit. If Alex Rodriguez has shown us anything in the past week, it's that "heroes" aren't above taking a fucking shortcut or lying through their teeth to save their own ass for it. I like GSP as much as the next person, but I wouldn't doubt if the fucker greased himself up like he was going tanning. Who knows what the pending inquiry will yield...but don't be surprised if GSP eats shit for this. I won't.

And Hughes is a galactic douche. But he wasn't the only one talking about GSP turning himself into a K-Y spokesman. If it was just Hughes saying that, I'd call bullshit. But he wasn't the only one...

 

[Marquis]

Actually, Serra's camp notified Penn's camp prior to the fight. The NSAC caught Nurse fucking around because they were tipped off pre-fight and knew what to look for. When a handful of fighters now come out mentioning what they thought were ill doings and even the UFC changes it's entire cornering policy, it doesn't paint a legit picture. Now I've even heard rumblings of fighters talking about Rashad doing this shit. If Alex Rodriguez has shown us anything in the past week, it's that "heroes" aren't above taking a fucking shortcut or lying through their teeth to save their own ass for it. I like GSP as much as the next person, but I wouldn't doubt if the fucker greased himself up like he was going tanning. Who knows what the pending inquiry will yield...but don't be surprised if GSP eats shit for this. I won't.

And Hughes is a galactic douche. But he wasn't the only one talking about GSP turning himself into a K-Y spokesman. If it was just Hughes saying that, I'd call bullshit. But he wasn't the only one...

So since they were tipped off pre fight, wouldn't have the officials have noticed this during the fight? I'm not saying that Penn's camp didn't warn the NSAC, but if the NSAC knew before hand, shouldn't they have taken notice of this during the fight especially when each fighter had an official in there corner? And yes i have also heard rumors that similar things were said about Rashad.

I will make one thing clear on my standing of this situation. Did GSP's corner fuck up?, that's not debatable they did. What is debatable is if it was intentional or unintentional. I still stand that it wasn't intentional.

 

[Kasey]

So since they were tipped off pre fight, wouldn't have the officials have noticed this during the fight? I'm not saying that Penn's camp didn't warn the NSAC, but if the NSAC knew before hand, shouldn't they have taken notice of this during the fight especially when each fighter had an official in there corner? And yes i have also heard rumors that similar things were said about Rashad.

I will make one thing clear on my standing of this situation. Did GSP's corner fuck up?, that's not debatable they did. What is debatable is if it was intentional or unintentional. I still stand that it wasn't intentional.

They did notice it. That's why Keith Kizer went into the cage and made sure GSP was wiped off and he simultaneously admonished Jackson and Nurse. Rather than stop the fight and start a riot, the decision was made to follow protocol and wipe him down...but the damage was done. It may have been unintentional, but where there's smoke...

 

[Marquis]

They did notice it. That's why Keith Kizer went into the cage and made sure GSP was wiped off and he simultaneously admonished Jackson and Nurse. Rather than stop the fight and start a riot, the decision was made to follow protocol and wipe him down...but the damage was done. It may have been unintentional, but where there's smoke...

Ah see that's what i was trying to find out. They didn't stop it to avoid a riot. Aside from the fact a riot might of have ensued, couldn't have been that big of deal as it has become for them not to stop the fight. But as you said when there's smoke...

Thank you for clearing this up for me.