UFC 104: Machida vs. Shogun

[jmt225]

Main card

• Light Heavyweight Championship bout: Lyoto Machida (c) vs Mauricio Rua
• Heavyweight bout: Cain Velasquez vs. Ben Rothwell
• Lightweight bout: Gleison Tibau vs. Josh Neer
• Lightweight bout: Joe Stevenson vs. Spencer Fisher
• Welterweight bout: Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida

Preliminary card

• Middleweight bout: Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen
• Heavyweight bout: Antoni Hardonk vs. Patrick Barry
• Middleweight bout: Jorge Rivera vs. Rob Kimmons
• Light Heavyweight bout: Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer
• Light Heavyweight bout: Kyle Kingsbury vs. Razak Al-Hassan
• Heavyweight bout: Stefan Struve vs. Chase Gormley

.......................................................​

Oh man I am fucking stoked for this main event! The rest of the card is a bit meh, but that main event has me really excited.

Machida vs. Shogun is a fight you fucking dream about. Shogun hasn't looked too hot since coming to the UFC, but I have a feeling we're going to see the Shogun of old come October 24th. He's now had time to fully recuperate from his knee surgery, and I just know for a fact he's training his ass off for this fight. And if we see the Shogun from PRIDE against Lyoto Machida, man are we in for a fucking treat. Now, I'm not sure whether or not Shogun at his best can defeat Machida, but I do think he can put up a hell of a fight and will push Machida to a place we have yet to see him. I cannot wait for this one.

But like I said the rest of the card isn't really anything special. Cain Velasquez vs. Ben Rothwell will be okay I guess, but does anyone see Rothwell putting up a decent fight? I sure as hell don't. Gleison Tibau vs. Josh Neer will be entertaining I'm sure, but it screams Preliminary bout more so than main card fight (I mean these two guys are coming off losses, but yet guys like Bader and Okami are on the Preliminary Card). Joe Stevenson vs. Spencer Fisher should be a fantastic fight though and that's the one I'm most looking forward to outside of the main event. And I'm a HUGE fan of Anthony Johnson (who's definitely my favorite Welterweight in the UFC behind GSP), so of course I'm looking forward to seeing him kick some ass, but I wish his opponent could have been Matt Brown instead of Yoshida.

The Preliminaries have a couple of interesting fights, however. Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer should be good and Bader's toughest fight yet. And Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen also intrigues me just because we haven't seen Okami fight in forever.

But all in all, the main event single handily makes this show. It's going to be fucking EPIC.

Edit:

Guys, if you're going to post predictions, please give reasons why you predict what you predicted. Please, and thank you.

 

[Rizza]

I agree on the Main Event looking epic while the rest of the card could be better, there are some certain fighters I am happy see fighting (Okami,Bader, Valesquez) I just really don't care about there opponents.

Main Card

Lyoto Machida (c) vs Mauricio Rua
This is going to be awesome I enjoy both mens fights alot, but I am not particularly big fans of either. This is the only fight on the card I can't just stamp a prediction on, It looks too close to call, but I think I will be pulling for Machida. While both are deadly strikers and versed in ground game, I'l make this one on just list of names that Machida has beaten, Evans, Thiago Silva, Ortiz, BJ Penn, Stephan Bonnar, and Rich Franklin, that already is a absolutely amazing list of names, and why Rua is got some very big names under his belt too( Overeem ,Rampage, Nogoueria, Liddell,) most of his big name wins came in Pride, where things were alot different with rules, and he was fighting in a ring compared to a cage .This should be a dynamite fight with the pace Rua likes to keep but when the dust clears I see Machida keeping the title.

Cain Velasquez vs. Ben Rothwell

Cain Velasquez vs. Ben Rothwell will be okay I guess, but does anyone see Rothwell putting up a decent fight? I sure as hell don't.

Sure, I see him putting a decent fight, I just don't see him winning. I see this kinda going like the Arvlowski fight in Affliction. He will look decent, might even get a big hit in or two, but a combo of his weak all-round game and his bad cardio, and I say Valesqiuz with his good stand up knocks his big ass out in the 3rd.

Joe Stevenson vs. Spencer Fisher
Should be great fight, like anything with Spencer Fisher it will probaly be explosive as hell, and I hope Spencer Knocks him out, as I am not a fan of Joe Daddy. Realistically though I see Joe Stevenson winning, as much as I don't like him, He is a force to be reckoned with at 155, with his only UFC losses coming in the forms of Sanchez, Penn, and Florian, and Josh Neer. Except for Josh Neer those losses are nothing to be ashamed about. I think this one goes to Stevenson by decision.

Anthony Johnson vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida

Damn, I enjoy both of these men, and don't want to see either of them lose, but If i have to pick I say Yoshida. I'l go ahead and admit it, I am a huge fan of just about anybody that practices Judo as their main discipline, just because growing up I somehow stumbled up on the Judo competition at the 1996 Olympics, and was just completely fascinated at the way a man could throw another almost looking effortlessly, now I didn't understand it then, like the points and what-not, but since I first started watching MMA, Judo practitioners have always been some of favorite, even though it is hard to find a very successful crossover of full Judo in to MMA. As for the fight goes I don't see Yoshida taking him in striking, in fact if this fight doesn't go to the ground then Johnson will fore sure walk away with a another KO on his belt.I just think Yoshida will take him to the ground and control him there and lock on a submission for the victory. Or at least I hope

Undercard

Yushin Okami vs. Chael Sonnen
Finally Okami will get his ass back in the cage and show why he is still on those damn middleweight rankings. I know alot of people don't like Okami, because he hasn't fought in ages and because he has a very slow, methodical style some see as boring. I think he kicks mega-ass though, and I think he will pull out the victory here. I don't think he will end it by KO though, because Cheal Sonnen a tough son of a bitch when it comes to that, and he isn't much of a submission artist either, I do see him dominating three rounds though and taking the decision.

Antoni Hardonk vs. Patrick Barry
Only reasons I am looking forward to this one is because

A) Its two bad-ass K-1 fighters(Barry more so then Hardonk but Hardonk has made a better transition to MMA)

B) Both of these men have been Trained(Barry more then Hardonk) by the fucking K-1 Legend himself Ernesto Hoost, who is looked up at like a god in the kickboxing world, and while though as fucked up as this might sounds, I think that even though he personally trains Patrick Barry he was working as one of Antoni Hardonks corner man, I doubt he will be for this fight, but just that these men have both been trained or cornerd by a legend makes me look foward to this fight alone. I think that if it stays standing Patrick Barry will take it, after all he was the more successful kickboxer. If it goes to the ground as weird as this sounds I see Hardonk taking it. Hardonk has tapped somebody out before and is more well rounded then the stand up Barry.
I say Hardonk tries to stand up thinking he can hang with Barry and gets a ambulance ride for his troubles. Can't call what round though.

Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer I watched the Mir/Nog season of the Ultimate fighter and was pulling for Bader all way there, so I will have to pull for him all the way here too. I really don't know about Eric Schafer I have only seen the fight where he choked out Houston Alexander, which looked impressive, except for is wasn't because it was Houston Alexander.
I missed his fight with Antonio Mendes, but I watched UFC 93 so I guess it was a undercard fight. I really can't call how this one is going to go, but I will say Bader by decision.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

The thing about this matchup is that both guys are so unorthodox in how they fight. This is a fight between the two most unique guys in the Light Heavyweight Division. Shogun is a spectacular fighter, utilizing all sorts of knees and kicks. Machida is incredibly elusive, and is the least hit fighter in the history of MMA. I think I remember hearing a stat like he gets hit once every two and a half rounds. He also is incredibly accurate in his striking, and his timing is right on.

If Shogun doesn't beat Machida here, then I think Machida's going to dominate with the title for years. There is nobody right now that can come close to beating him, besides Shogun.

Let's look at some of the other top light heavyweight contenders:

Rich Franklin/Rashad Evans/Thiago Silva/Tito Ortiz: Already beaten by Machida.
Forrest Griffin: Two losses in a row, took the worst gameplan possible into the Anderson Silva fight. No reason to think he could beat Machida.
Brandon Vera: Lost to Jardine, the gatekeeper of the LHW division. Machida would toy with him.
Randy Couture: Dropping back down to LHW... will probably beat Vera, but would probably be overcome by Machida's speed.

Forget Anderson Silva and Little Nog, Machida trains with them and said he wouldn't fight them. Jon Jones and Luis Cane would provide great challenges, but they're still a couple years away.

Personally, I think Machida wins in the third round by knockout. He's just too good right now, whereas Shogun's only had one convincing fight since coming to the UFC, and that was a win over a past his prime Chuck Liddell.

 

[Mr. TM]

Huge main event that is pretty close. Machida is 15-0, and he looks to keep that belt he works so hard to get. Shogun is coming off of a couple big wins over Coleman and Liddell. But after Machida knocked out Evans, I think he is ready for Shogun here. I think this will either be quick (late second, early third) or will go to descision for Machida.

 

[gd]

This seems like this is one of the better main events UFC's had recently, at least as far as hype goes. Machida, although undefeated, seems to still be a question mark to some. I think it'll be a tough fight against Shogun, but Machida will most likely win and solidify himself as the best LHW in the world.

The rest of the card isn't that great. Not too excited about the Velasquez fight, he should win though. I like Anthony Johnson, hopefully he can put it all together and strat movin' up the ranks.

The one fight that should be really good is Fisher/Stevenson. They are both very solid fighters, but not exactly championship material. Regardless, they will definetly have a great fight that'll likely go 3 rounds. I'm not sure who'll win, and I'm not sure it really matters, but it'll be fun to watch.

 

[X]

I'm definitely looking forward to this fight. I've been hearing people say Machida is overrated, but I think if anything he's underrated. He's just deadly on every level from his striking to his groundwork. Shogun is going to give him a hell of a fight I think, but I think I still see Lyoto retaining here. He's just red-hot right now. Can't wait to see this fight.

I'm a more casual MMA fan, so the rest of the card is pretty meh to me. I am a big fan of Anthony "Rumble" Johnson though, so I'll definitely tune in for his fight as well. To me he's got to be one of the most exciting and explosive fighters in the world today.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

What concerns me is the lack of mainstream appeal the main event will have, and the result it will have on PPV buys. Right now, you've got The Ultimate Fighter - Heavyweights drawing record numbers thanks to the name recognition and curiosity of Kimbo Slice. He's not a great fighter, but he draws people.

Conversely, neither Machida or Rua are terrific characters. Neither are really compelling or facinating. They are both great fighters, and would make a great fight, but neither have the name to be able to draw in casual fans or get people whipped into a frenzy the way guys names Griffin, Evans, and Jackson do. And especially not the way guys named Lesnar, Silva, Lidell, Couture, Franklin, Hughes, or Ortiz do.

I will be rooting for quick knockouts in at least 2 fights simply because I want to see Ryan Bader fight. I'm a big fan of his, and I've said for a while that I could see him as a future champ.

I will be watching, absolutely. But I am not as excited as some of you appear to be.

 

[jmt225]

The thing is IC, after UFC 104, the UFC has 4 straight HUGE shows coming up, that will all generate buys/ratings.

UFC 105 features Randy Couture, who is one of the biggest draws in the sport, and it will air on free tv, and I'm sure most of that show will hype up UFC 106. And speaking of which....

UFC 106 could possibly end up drawing the best numbers in UFC history. Not only does it feature Brock Lesnar in the main event, but it has has TITO ORTIZ (the UFC's biggest draw before Lesnar came along) vs. Forrest Griffin (another big draw in his own right) on the undercard as well. That is going to be a HUGE show.

UFC 107 is filled with potential FOTY canidates.

The TUF 10 Finale is going to be a big show, most likely hyping up UFC 108, which features Rashad Evans and could also feature Kimbo Slice.

What UFC 104 is doing, however, is two things:

1. Catering to the "hardcore" fanbase, who will shall out $50 for this card.

2. Build up some young talent and give them some pay-per-view time/$$$$.

That's why this card is the way it is. Not every card can feature huge draws, because you then leave yourself fucked in future cards. However, you put something like this together, which the keyboard warriors jackoff over, and the young guys get a chance to make a name for themselves (fact is... this show will be covered by ESPN, whereas a Fight Night won't), yet... it also gives you a month off from the big fights and let's the casual fans save up their money for the big fights coming in November.

That said, I bet this still does around the 400,000 buy mark.

 

[bealzer1010]

Well all I saw were the last 2 fights since my laptop wasn't connecting to the TV!

Rothwell was definitely getting up from taking those shots and wasnt dazed, looked bad but he was eating them, I know Mazzagatti warned him he would stop the fight if he kept taking those shots, but it was the wrong time to stop it there Im pretty sure Velasquez just would've finished him off a little bit later in the rd. I still think Rothwell should've been able to get to his feet! Much better fight for Velasquez than the Congo fight. Id say definitely let Cain get the winner of Lesnar/Carwin, With both of them being very good wrestlers I bet Velasquez is going to have a much harder time getting either guy to the ground!!

Machida Rua should've at least been a draw IMO. Rua was way more aggressive and seemed to land the harder shots and you could just hear them, His leg kicks to the body and Machida's legs were nasty. It seemed every everytime Machida would start to get going with some strikes Rua came with a nice counter to stop Machida. It never seemed Machida was hurt at all from all the Rua kicks and punches some had his attention but nothing to have him finished. To me thats the only reason why he won the fight!! I think if Machida could've defended some of those kicks he would've been able to get something going in the later rd's but his lower body was beat. I hope Rua gets a rematch right away definitely deserves it and Im sure Machida would want to show he can beat him in better form.

 

[RAUl Mf. L0wk0]

The Cain Velasquez/ Ben Rothwell fight was definetly fight of the night. Even though i also thought it might have been stopped too early it was dope and Rothwell was gonna go or sooner or later even if he rised to his feet. Because Cain looked too dominate against him. I was really surprised, I was rooting for Cain but i thought he had no chance at all to beat the more experience Big Ben. He just looked terrible. Velasquez brought his game and was really impressive.

But I for one think Cain isnt ready just yet to face the Heavyweight Champion just yet. They should throw more fights his way because he is just getting better and better. He still showed that he cant finish a fight with top fighters and maybe he should work on some submissions because I saw many chances he had to a attempt a choke of some sort. So give him more fights! Have Minotauro fight the Champ first! aha

Go Cain Velasquez tho!

 

[jmt225]

Just some quick thoughts:

The Cain Velasquez/Ben Rothwell fight was going great until that moron Steve Mazzagatti stopped it. But honestly, I don't think it really mattered because Velasquez was dominating that fight in every aspect and would have eventually finished him anyway. However, I still don't believe Velasquez would defeat someone like Brock Lesnar. He's just not strong enough. But, if he were to move down to 205, I think he could very well dominate that division.

Joe Stevenson looked the best he's ever looked tonight in my opinion; much better than he did against Nate Diaz. I was very, very impressed. Hopefully we can get him against someone like Clay Guida or Roger Huerta next.

I was very happy with the Anthony Johnson win. Yeah, it sucked he weighed in 5 pounds too heavy, but I still think he's the second best Welterweight in the UFC. Hopefully he can get his weight together and win another big fight, so he'll get his shot against GSP.

And Ryan Bader vs. Eric Schafer was a great fight, but I'm afraid Bader is about to become one of those wrestlers who thinks they're boxers just because he has power in his punches. If he does that, then he will next beat any of the upper-tier Light Heavyweights in the UFC; however, if he sticks with got him to the dance and only uses that power punch for special occasions where it's necessary, then he could go very far. Champion? Maybe not that far, but definitely in the top 5 in the UFC Light Heavyweight Division.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I could not believe that Rua lost that match. Frankly, I think you could have legitimately scored all five rounds to him. Lyoto got some hard knees, kicks and punches in and was evasive, and he wasn't overwhelmed, but he was clearly beaten. I also can't believe it was a unanimous decision.

I wanted Lyoto to win, so we could have a legitimate Light Heavyweight Champion. He won, but he is definitely not a legitimate champion. I don't think he should even be the champion.

I'm not usually a believer in conspiracy theories but I know some people will be thinking this is the UFC protecting their new poster boy from a fighter who was much tougher than they expected.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

The Cain Velasquez/Ben Rothwell fight was going great until that moron Steve Mazzagatti stopped it. But honestly, I don't think it really mattered because Velasquez was dominating that fight in every aspect and would have eventually finished him anyway.

That was a flat out execution of Rothwell that Cain was performing. I think the call to stop it was correct. Cain was dominating from the start, and I thought he had already beaten him in the first. Mazzagatti warned Rothwell saying that he couldn't let him take anymore real bad hits. Cain got him up against the cage and started teeing off. Rothwell at that point wasn't defending himself, and Mazzagatti had to stop it. I hate to defend Mazzagatti, but he made the right call.

I could not believe that Rua lost that match. Frankly, I think you could have legitimately scored all five rounds to him. Lyoto got some hard knees, kicks and punches in and was evasive, and he wasn't overwhelmed, but he was clearly beaten. I also can't believe it was a unanimous decision.

I wanted Lyoto to win, so we could have a legitimate Light Heavyweight Champion. He won, but he is definitely not a legitimate champion. I don't think he should even be the champion.

I'm not usually a believer in conspiracy theories but I know some people will be thinking this is the UFC protecting their new poster boy from a fighter who was much tougher than they expected.

I'm a huge Machida fan, and even I 100% agree that he had no business winning that fight. Last night, I thought Shogun had taken every round except the third, and possibly making a case for Machida taking the fifth. After re-watching just now, I think Machida DID take the first round, barely, and he took the third, but I still had Shogun taking the 2nd, 4th, and 5th. SI's Josh Gross reported that Cecil Peoples gave rounds 1-3 to Machida, and 4 & 5 to Shogun. Same for Marcos Rosales. 'Doc' Hamilton had Round 1 & 5 Shogun, 2-4 Machida.

I don't think the UFC has any real motivation to go ahead and fix fights. Shogun is the more explosive fighter to begin with, and thus, more marketable. Dana said himself at the press conference that he thought Shogun won, and that the judging is a major problem that they're trying to lobby to get remedied. Dana saying to never let the fight get to the judges rang true more than ever last night. The judges, especially Cecil Peoples, are terrible, and have no business judging MMA fights. Shogun had more lethal strikes, and had really taken it to Machida in the fight. Even in the third round, which is the only convincing round Lyoto had won.

Obviously this fight was too close to call, and luckily, Dana and Lyoto both seemed on board for a rematch last night. And for all intents and purposes, this was the best fight of the year, only with a shit decision. A rematch is sure to be even better than this one, with someone actually finishing the fight this time. I really think that Shogun is back to his PRIDE form, and I think he out Machida'ed Machida last night. I think he'll win the rematch.

For what it's worth, here's the FightMetric, which also had Shogun winning: http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

Last night was my first UFC ppv, after ordering years worth of WWE ppv's I finally jump ship, and what do I get, a WWE screwjob finish.

I enjoyed my purchase to no end, and the Shogun - Machida fight was the best my eyes have ever witnessed, but I could not believe the scored Machida with the unanimous decision. I really felt like Vince walked into the staple center and worked some scripted magic.

I really enjoyed how the crowd was hot for Machida for the first few rounds, but slowly turned as the fight went on, and by the end of the fight it seemed all of L.A was hot for Shogun. The decision was total bull shit, and a re match is a must. One things for sure, I was sold on the UFC last night, even with the screwy finish.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'm getting more and more annoyed by this, particularly after I just saw these figures. I mean, seriously, what in the holy blue world of fucking stupidity?

Shogun landed 82 strikes out of 149.
Lyoto landed 42 strikes out of 116.

Shogun had 55% accuracy
Lyoto had 36% accuracy

Shogun landed 17 shots to the head (12 power shots).
Lyoto landed 14 shots to the head (8 power shots).

Lyoto landed 24 shots to the body
Shogun landed 16 shots to the body

Shogun landed 49 leg kicks.
Lyoto landed 4 leg kicks.

Shogun landed 48 strikes from distance.
Lyoto landed 26 strikes from distance.

Shogun landed 34 strikes from the clinch.
Lyoto landed 16 strikes from the clinch.

Strikes landed per round;

Round 1

Total strikes:

Shogun: 19
Machida: 11

Round 2:

Shogun: 21
Machida: 7

Round 3:

Shogun: 19
Machida: 15

Round 4:

Shogun:10
Machida: 3

Round 5:

Shogun: 13
Machida: 6

Watching the match and looking at those stats, Machida did not win. Simple as.

I was a big Machida fan before that fight. Still would be if the decision had gone against him. But I just can't support a paper champion, which is what Machida is right now.

And I've never heard as stupid an argument as "you've got to beat a champion decisively to win the belt". What sort of dumb shit as that? No. The winner of the fight gets the belt - and Shogun won that fight, even if Machida wasn't a fucking corpse afterwards; which is apparently what the judges were looking for.

 

[X]

Yeah that fight really just turned me off from the UFC honestly, what the fuck is wrong with their judges, seriously? Were they even watching the fight? I'm not one to go for conspiracy theories but I'm seriously starting to contemplate whether or not some of these fights are getting fixed or whether some judges are having outside influences weigh on them. You'd think a fucking MMA judge would be able to grasp something that even casual MMA fans can.

Absolute travesty of a finish to that fight, Shogun was robbed, plain and simple. I like Lyoto as well, but that was just a fucking insult. These two need a rematch, ASAP. Dana should be ashamed of his judges.

Of the fights on the rest of the card (the ones that I saw), none were particularly memorable to me, apart from Bader vs. Schafer which I thought was damn entertaining.

Man, what a travesty. Shogun should kick Dana in the face next time he sees him.

 

[jmt225]

It must be said that the UFC has absolutely NOTHING to do with who judges what fights. The Nevada State Athletic Commission are the people who assigns the judges to the fights, not the UFC (it's the same thing for the referees, too). So, if you want to blame anyone, then blame the Nevada State Athletic Commission. Cecil Peoples has ALWAYS been a terrible, terrible judge, yet he sticks around.

Anyway, I still don't see anything to bitch about. I've seen worse decisions. Like I said in the other thread... this actually works out for the best because now we're going to get a rematch sooner rather than later (Dana White has already promised), and I'm sure in that fight we'll get a clear winner.

Just look at the whole situation like the last fight between Shogun and Machida never ended; there's still five more rounds for them to go.