Tommy Dreamer Retirement Angle

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

So on tonight's ECW, Tommy Dreamer cut a pretty decent promo explaining that his latest angle is "if I don't win the ECW title by June 6th, I will leave".

Personally, it'd be a bit of a down-note if he doesn't win it and just retires then, but we're all naturally expecting him to win it now at some point. Now, I'm not one of those "ECW is not like the old one" guys that drones on and on about how "it's not extreme enough anymore" or how they don't have the same guys and all that crap. And to me, Dreamer's been nothing but a jobber wrapped up in nostalgia who - in some magical way that I don't understand fully - has been able to remain a semi-credible contender for that particular title, but absolutely no other titles, whilst still losing almost every single match he has. But all in all, I'd actually like to see Dreamer win the ECW title sometime.

Another thing to address is, from whom, and when? Well, I'm not impressed by Jack Swagger in the slightest bit like a lot of people are, but naturally, I'm hoping the guy proves me wrong. I hope he learns how to cut a promo, learns how to be a little more entertaining in the ring, and learns how to be a heel that actually would make me boo him. If they go the route of having him be an arrogant guy, he'll need to figure out how to do that first off without coming off like an idiot with that lisp...and the bad acting...and the stupid "point to my grin or just sweep the canvas" stuff that is nothing to be impressed with....BUT...if they do in fact figure out a way to get him over as that arrogant young kid who is actually beating his opponents and isn't just cheating to get the win, then I could see Dreamer being the old school guy that puts him in his place. But it'll only work if they can get Swagger to that level, because if he stays the way he is now or has some other sort of title reign (like the cheating heel that can't win without interference and runs away from his opponents), then from a storytelling point of view, there's absolutely no reason for Dreamer to be the one to beat him.

Here's another interesting note: Dreamer said tonight "June 6th". If you look on WWE.com, the One Night Stand ppv is on 06-07-2009. One day after his supposed fake retirement date? Hm...

Your thoughts on this angle and how it'll play out?

 

[klunderbunker]

I hope he wins it. Dreamer is one of the true seemingly nice guys in wrestling. You never hear about him being a jerk or politicing or anything like that. If nothign else he's the complete opposite. There would have been a logical booking strategy to make him one of the biggest names on the new ECW, but instead he's been the jobber as always and he seems happy with that. If he wants to retire and just do front office stuff which I'm sure he'd be able to get a job doing, then give him the belt and let him retire as champion. Dreamer as the ECW Champion is something that was truly special about ECW because it was the perfect symbolism for the total underdog to finally capture the gold and prove everyone wrong. Let him do that again then retire. It would hurt no one at all to give him a fluke win and then a tournament or something for the belt.

 

[Khalifa]

I hope he wins as well. But frankly i don't see him winning it. He will be on a winning streak from now till then and will have huge wins over matt hardy, Swagger and some one from Raw like kane or something. It is obvious it will be a extreme rules match at ONS with him facing who ever but he will only just loose after a great match . I think it's time for him to retire. He has had a nice run and you don't want him to end up like Ron Simmons now do you? He has had his time in ECW putting over guys he should of and well Loosing to people he shouldn't be. What ever the outcome i will be happy with.

 

[donutman]

Dreamer is the ultimate professional. Doesn't seem to care about wins and loses and just does what a wrestler is suppose to do. I really hope he gets the title. If there was one way to get the title on him, this is the perfect way to do it. But It won't surprise me if they don't put it on him. I also see him either winning or losing in a classic extreme rules match at ONS. Another scenario I see is him winning the title before the deadline and then dropping it at ONS.

 

[mcflyboy]

Personally, I think Dreamer is done. He certainly hasn't really been pushed, and he's really all that's left of the old ECW. I never watched the old ECW, so I don't have any fond memories or nostalgia or anything. But personally I think that this angle is nothing more than an excuse to give Dreamer a chance to give a farewell speech when he's done, instead of just disappearing completely due to either being released or quitting. Perhaps its a nod to the die hard fans that are still out there.

I could be wrong, but what happens if he wins the title? Will the majority of fans care? How long will he be able to successfully defend?

But yeah, I think this angle is here because his time is close to being done. Either he won't win the title and he'll be granted a farewell speech, or he will win it but as soon as his title reign is over (which probably won't be long), he'll be done.

 

[Harthan]

It's clear Dreamer's going to win. This is about details.

My first instinct was - "June 6 is early June, One Night Stand is in early June...genius!" However, upon further inspecting, One Night Stand 2009 will be on June 7, leading me to believe that either Dreamer made a big mistake in his lines (which I doubt, because I think he said June 6 a number of times), or they simply won't do it at One Night Stand. I think now that is really his contract expiration date, and they plan on giving him the title beforehand.

I, personally, am anticipating it at WrestleMania. What I'd like best for WrestleMania is a Triple Threat between Swagger, Bourne, and Dreamer, Dreamer wins, then has a good long run with it feuding with Bourne and whoever they draft onto ECW. The only other thing I can think of is a win in Philadelphia, but the next scheduled show (Raw, SD, ECW, or PPV) in Philadelphia is the Great American Bash, which is past deadline.

So, I think the title win is obvious, and it's going to be a markout moment. It should be hardcore, because it's the only thing that makes sense, and the only way to make Dreamer look good. I'm sure Dreamer will run with the title through the Bash - the money and fan response in sending Dreamer into Philly with the ECW Championship is way too good to pass up, and probably drop at SummerSlam to Bourne or Swagger.

 

[Shocky]

Tommy Dreamer, there is just something about the man. For the msot part, he's been a guy that has kept his nose clean throughout his career, and genuinely gives a damn about the business. There is something about a guy that is loyal to the end, and that's what that man was to ECW. You might not like the original ECW, but to read Tommy Dreamers story, and to see how much the man personally invested and put into keeping that company a float is truly commendable.

Tommy Dreamer as champion, I'm not sure. Part of me would say this, if One Night Stand was to go back to its routes from a few years ago, as in the Hammerstein Ball room, then this could work. But if it goes into teh Jacksonville Municpal Center or something stupid liek that this year, it won't work. If Tommy Dreamer doesn't win the title by 6/6, and ONS is held in the Ballroom the next night, then you could expect one helluva retirement party for a man that gave so much to ECW.

On the other hand, you have an older guy, that has done everything in his power to keep his nose clean, and put over the other guy while employeed by the WWE. Tommy Dreamer loses, but makes other people look great in the process. Tommy Dreamer has meant more to the development of the young ECW guys then anyone else in the company. The WWE might be, hey, the ECW title isn't a real world title, we know this by Jack Swagger as champion, why not give this guy a run with it as a showing of respect to him.

For me, you may not like the old ECW, hell you may not like Tommy Dreamer, but the guy deserves respect. He's not an insufferable asshole like a Hardcore Holly that didn't deserve one push taht he got. This is an all around nice guy, that has done whatever the business has asked of him without thinking twice. Tommy Dreamer deserves a nostalgia run.

 

[Mr. TM]

It is almost like the story of Rocky. An old beat up overall nice guy is coming from the underdog position in the hopes of winning it all. No one can actually see him doing it, but he has the hope still. I would suspect that he would win on One Night Stand. It could be a great match, with him in an extreme rules battle. there will be blood and Singapore canes. I would suspect that he would battle against Swagger. Think about this. Yuo want Swagger to be a heel. Then put him against the babyface of ECW, Dreamer. Have Swagger say that there is no chance he will ever win against him. Have a Wrestlemania match with these two. Have Swagger smear Dreamers face into a bloody mess. All inspiration for Dreamer. Dreamer could come back from it all, and pull out a huge win at One Night Stand and have an incredible come from behind win. If he is actually thinking about retiring, retire the next night. I almost think that his line was a mistake, why would he hype up a Saturday with no SNME on it? More to come I assume.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I'm going to join the club that says he wins it. As was previously stated, he is a truly nice guy who deserves it. He could go in and say "I am ECW, give me the belt," but he doesn't do that. He even goes as far as to put over the newest guys. Think about it: How many times is he a debutant's first match/feud? No one has paid dues like Tommy has.

I personally hope and think that this will be a Wrestlemania match, judging by the fact that 9 times out of 10 the WWE puts big moments like this at major PPV's, and there are none bigger than Wrestlemania XXV. There is also no question in my mind that it has to be an ECW Rules match. Let him do the trashcan Tree of Woe, put someone through a table, and I hope (even though it probably won't happen) they let him use the Dreamer Driver, which I assume he stopped using because it looks like the FU... I mean the Throwback.

This would also make ECW's title picture more interesting. As of right now, the only men in the main event are Hardy, Henry, Swagger, Finlay, and probably (hopefully) Bourne when he comes back. This would not only propel another face into that stale main event picture, but hopefully give the show an air of surprise or unexpectedness. This could start a trend of guys fluctuating between the main event and midcard of a show that can get boring very quickly due to a small roster.

On a side note, I'm hoping a Tommy Dreamer title run gets rid of that ugly ass new ECW belt.

 

[8five]

I watches the rise and fall dvd of ecw awhile back and one major point of it was that Tommy Dreamer never wanted the ECW championship. The only reason he got it was because of Mike Awesome jumping to WCW while still being ECW championship. I don't think he wants to win the belt again because that isn't what he or his character is about. The Tommy Dreamer I will always remember is the guy who stuggled for years to beat Raven and finally acheived it. That was the "championship" his character always strived for. If Tommy truly wants one more reign before he goes into the ECW gm spot then let him have it. I just think he will come up just short further putting over the young heel champion and making him more hated and then at one night stand he will get to say his goodbye and the spotlight he has earned will be shone upon him at the ECW ppv

 

[My$terio_Fan]

I'm torn on this issue. While I like that the WWE seems to be giving Dreamer a decent angle and/or send off I just don't know how I feel about the angle. First off like what everyone said Dreamer comes across as a person who actually cares about the product. He seems nice enough and seems to give his all(even though his all isn't the best).

Dreamer has been nothing but a jobber as soon as ECW started. When he was apart of the Originals he won a few matches but was still overshadowed. Does ECW really need to put their belt on a jobber? If this was Raw or Smackdown, I would say no way in hell, but since it is ECW and guys like Hardy, Kane, and Chavo have been champ why not Dreamer.

The belt is already look at as being equal to the other championships so it's not like Dreamers reign would discredit it. Also if the WWE could play this "underdog"/"legend" angle out right it could be a somewhat watered down version of the Flair angle(1% the impact)but if the creative team writes this properly it could be ECW's version. Have Dreamer win matches but never get the big belt. Then the last ECW before his "retirement" let him win the belt, hold it for a few weeks then have him drop the title to some young guy and let him exit with his dignity. Also ECW never seems to have very good storylines going on and this could be a decent one that could get the fans more involved.

 

[reanimat3d]

Tommy Dreamer will not win back the ECW title. They've just given it over to a fresh face, who will continue to be undefeated throughout his entire reign, why would the WWE want to kill all the power that Swagger has by ending his streak & title run to a well known jobber?
Dreamer's role within the WWE is to make other wrestlers look good, and that's exactly what they will do with this angle. If you think that people won't boo Swagger even now he's beaten Hardy, having him retire Tommy Dreamer will be the perfect way to usher in a new era of ECW, with the companies newest mega-heel as the face of it.
Mark my words, Dreamer will retire.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Tommy Dreamer WON'T Win The Championship: This isn't me wanting him to not win, this is me forcing myself to believe who Tommy Dreamer is and always has been, likely always to continue being.

Dreamer has said himself, and many around him have stated that he doesn't care for winning Championships. His goal, his desire, is to see the product (Wrestling, namely E.C.W.) succeed. To help in any manner he could, to help push anything around him to being better. So to me, this is a storyline that is ultimately going to be designed to give Jack Swagger a beginning point to his continuing Legacy.

Think about it. You have a rookie, who many are unsure of and some love him. But you still have a rookie, who's just won the Heavyweight Championship. There are those out there that could say his Undefeated streak isn't impressive because he truly hasn't defeated "mega" Superstars. They've all been mid-carders, at best. (even if they're headliners in E.C.W.)

So now you take a guy in Tommy Dreamer, who as Shocky and others have said/know, is the heart and soul of the Original E.C.W. who in the W.W.E. is a jobber who couldn't find his way into being a rightful contender for anything.. yet still, somehow, someway is one of the very best, always at the top possible contenders for the E.C.W. Championship.

You square in a reverse Ric Flair retirement angle, (where it's assumed people would get behind Dreamer) and that makes Tommy Dreamer that much more dangerous, and adds his entire legacy (mixed with all of the Old E.C.W.) on top of everything.

So, come June, I fully imagine something will happen that will either cause a 1-day hold on Dreamer's retirement, so the Jack Swagger v. Tommy Dreamer (Hardcore Rules) Championship match would happen at One Night Stand. OR.. I fully expect Dreamer to have his last goodbyes at that Pay per view.

Either way, I completely believe this is Tommy Dreamer's idea not to give himself a Championship and to go out with a bang.. but instead, to help elevate and give Jack Swagger a notch in building his legacy for the future.

It's always been Dreamer's true goal, to help everyone but himself, to succeed. Dreamer is a company man, not a "me" individual.

Now, in closing.. I definately would LOVE, greatly, to see Tommy Dreamer become the E.C.W. Champion. I just don't think this storyline was designed to be for Dreamer, so much as to be designed for someone to make their beginning stages of a legacy.. off retiring the heart and soul of E.C.W.

 

[Crush1]

I agree with Big Ol Willy that Dreamer has no chance in hell to win the ECW Championship. I've got nothing bad to say about this guy he's always a fan favorite, helping other young superstar, not being selfish, and the nicest guy in the business. It would be nice if he got one last chance to win the title and retire at One Night Stand, but i just dont see Swagger losing to Dreamer.

Tommy Dreamer was born to put people over. Why do you think he ever stayed in ECW? he was probably glad to work in the WWE helping his brand, and the younger guys. Dreamer is going to end up putting Swagger over because that makes sense. If Swagger forces Dreamer to retire in philly the dude would get MASSIVE heat, and that's what Dreamer wants. To put others over.

So in the end i can assure you Tommy Dreamer will NOT win the ECW championship.

 

[andymcg]

Hmm i dont really know what to make of this one , as many people pointed out , dreamer as a man always said he didnt care for championship reigns , and for that myself and alot of other people respect him greatly. Personally i would like to see him win it , then retire but i cant really see him winning it , as someone pointed out he likes to put people over , and if wwe had jack swagger beat dreamer in a extreme rules match , well that would ultimatly put him over big time.

My dream cernario however would be if dreamer was about to beat swagger , then in comes raven (seeing there 3 yeer long fued in the orginal ecw) and costs him the title , and then tommy resigns a contract with a promise he would anhilate raven. Wouldnt happen in 1 million years i know , but would be good.

 

[Joker ' Ferreira]

I only see a way to this angle to go.

Dreamer will pretty much get his second or third title shot at One Night Stand, he retires at June 6, but at June 7 he beats the champion at ONS 2009, then they will start a tournament as someone here already said.

Why this angle is important? Well, if its Dreamer the first person to beat, let's say, Jack Swagger at June 7, he would be, I believe 10 months as undefeated, he would get over as the heel main-eventer and beating Dreamer two times in a row just to get him a third title shot would be perfect.

Swagger could "give" Dreamer that third shot at ONS just to get him pissed off, saying that he couldn't wrestle because he was already retired, and then Teddy Long would come out and give the title shot anyway.

The other reason this feud would be important is because, WWE Draft if it happens again this year, it will be at June 8, well, if Swagger gets beaten by Dreamer he could trade brands the night after and could compete for the Intercontinental or US Championship and win his second title and he would continue his push in the WWE, I'm pretty much sure that Teddy Long will get drafted too, maybe to SmackDown!, so Dreamer can become ECW General-Manager...

 

[Father:_Polley]

Maluco, it's a very logical suggestion and probably will happen. The problem is that no-one really cares about Tommy Dreamer anymore. Yeah, he was a legend in the original ECW, but it's dead and gone and Dreamer is nothing more than a nod to what it was. I don't think anyone will really miss the guy too much when he goes. After all, he's nothing more than talent enhancement jobber like Val Venis was.

 

[Joker ' Ferreira]

Maluco, it's a very logical suggestion and probably will happen. The problem is that no-one really cares about Tommy Dreamer anymore. Yeah, he was a legend in the original ECW, but it's dead and gone and Dreamer is nothing more than a nod to what it was. I don't think anyone will really miss the guy too much when he goes. After all, he's nothing more than talent enhancement jobber like Val Venis was.

I don't like Dreamer and I didn't watch ECW back then but he is getting the same pop as Rob Van Dam would receive at ECW...

So that means something and taking out Matt Hardy he is the top face of the brand, ok, you can say that Finlay is over enough but he is not the one over, its like Edge with Vickie, Hornswoggle does all the work.

Tommy Dreamer needs to get a last run with the title even if its just for hours, because he needs to get out in a good way, I don't see him just losing the match, his last opportunity, its not like Flair, it was himself that said that he would retire, so it's totally different.

But I guess it can go either way.

 

[Father:_Polley]

I could sidetrack this thread spectacularly with my views on Finlay... but I won't. Dreamer still gets the pop because he's the last of the originals. There's really no other reason since he's nothing spectacular on the mic or in the ring.

He'll win the title, he might not actually make it before the deadline, but it'll happen, just to pay homage to who Dreamer was before WWE made ECW their development playground.

 

[RBH]

The fact of the matter is with the way they have been writing Tommy Dreamer as a loser for many years so I do not see how he will win the ECW World Title even before June. Dreamer has only won the title once from what I recall and it lasted like half an hour. The WWE never saw him asa World Title contender or a World Title holder. Not even for the ECW World Title. They ahd him get squashed by every single ECW World Champion in recent memory. It seemed like whenever a new heel won the title, Dreamer would be the first guy to challenge them and get beat ultimately. The fact is that maybe they will give him a 1 day title reign but I do not see it happening.

 

[Rusty]

First off, people actually think or want Jack Swagger to hold the ECW Championship for 6 whole months?! I can't stress how outrageous that is. Mainly because since ECW returned in 2006, nobody has held that title for longer than 5 months. And we all know that smarks hate long title reigns. He'll have defeated every Tom, Dick and Harry by April, much less June.

But anyway, I like this Tommy Dreamer retirement angle. The guy deserves credit for having so much passion for this business and more importantly, ECW. This angle is perfect to give Tommy one last and final reign as the ECW Champion. The guy has done nothing but put the younger guys over since 2006. Unlike Ric Flair, I don't want Dreamer to lose in his final match. He does that all the time, so let him win for once. I would have Dreamer face Matt Hardy in an Extreme Rules Match at One Night Stand for the Championship. Matt Hardy would obviously be the champion going into that match.

Have Dreamer win the match but both will come out of that bloody and brutal match looking very strong. But after the match it would be great if Tommy cut a promo saying that his time is finished and he wants to "pass the torch" to someone else that he knows is going to be a successful ECW Champion and a future star/world champion in the making. He shakes hands with Matt Hardy and gives him the torch (via ECW Title). It may sound rather silly, but unless they want to turn Swagger into a babyface, it should be Matt Hardy who faces Dreamer in his last match.

That way people will be emotional and it would be a great moment in WWE/ECW history. I really hope they let Dreamer either win his final match, or have him win the ECW Championship for one last time.

 

[Tim]

I would have Dreamer face Matt Hardy in an Extreme Rules Match at One Night Stand for the Championship. Matt Hardy would obviously be the champion going into that match.

Did you read what everybody else has already said Rusty? One Night Stand is on June 7th, so unless Dreamer changes it, he can't win the title at One Night Stand. He'll already have retired by then.

That being said, I do see Dreamer winning the title at One Night Stand and after him realising when One Night Stand is, changing the date to the 7th and getting a match with the ECW champion at One Night Stand. Make it an Extreme Rules match, that's an original ECW match. Make the match the Main Event, and have Dreamer lose the match, but Teddy Long come out and say his foot was under the rope, and make the match continue. Have Dreamer win it using the DDT, and he can get the remaining ECW originals out to celebrate with him.... Oh wait. Have Dreamer celebrate with the fans after finally winning the title. Sometime after that, have Dreamer forfeit the title and retire, and have his career end on a high note.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

First off, people actually think or want Jack Swagger to hold the ECW Championship for 6 whole months?! I can't stress how outrageous that is. Mainly because since ECW returned in 2006, nobody has held that title for longer than 5 months. And we all know that smarks hate long title reigns. He'll have defeated every Tom, Dick and Harry by April, much less June.

How else would you re-write history, if not by allowing the young rookie to enter into a league of his own, with the new "longest title reign" of the reformed E.C.W. Championship?

I think you need to put your Jack Swagger hateorade down and wake-up to the future of the 3rd Brand in the World Wrestling Entertainment.

But anyway, I like this Tommy Dreamer retirement angle. The guy deserves credit for having so much passion for this business and more importantly, ECW. This angle is perfect to give Tommy one last and final reign as the ECW Champion. The guy has done nothing but put the younger guys over since 2006. Unlike Ric Flair, I don't want Dreamer to lose in his final match. He does that all the time, so let him win for once. I would have Dreamer face Matt Hardy in an Extreme Rules Match at One Night Stand for the Championship. Matt Hardy would obviously be the champion going into that match.

If the W.W.E. wants to completely shit all over a storyline that could single-handedly reface their shithole of a reformed company, then sure, let Hardy foolishly and stupidly win the title back.. only to face Dreamer in a cry-baby tampon match. I'm sure the New York crowd would love that.

Have Dreamer win the match but both will come out of that bloody and brutal match looking very strong. But after the match it would be great if Tommy cut a promo saying that his time is finished and he wants to "pass the torch" to someone else that he knows is going to be a successful ECW Champion and a future star/world champion in the making. He shakes hands with Matt Hardy and gives him the torch (via ECW Title). It may sound rather silly, but unless they want to turn Swagger into a babyface, it should be Matt Hardy who faces Dreamer in his last match.

Rusty, step the shit away from the keyboard and think before you post. How insanely ******ed, not to mention downright stupid would it be to have someone defeat you and WIN a Championship.. just to say.. "You know what, I spent these previous 6 monthes really looking over my career, and dispite reaching the ultimate goal.. nah, nevermind I quit. Here yah go, it's Silver anyway."

You claim you want what's best for the company, and more namely the E.C.W. brand. Yet you turn around and want to see people just "handing" the Championship back and forth. More importantly, you wanna see it handed off, AFTER that individual JUST LOST in an attempt to win it. How credible would that make the E.C.W. Championship look then?

That way people will be emotional and it would be a great moment in WWE/ECW history. I really hope they let Dreamer either win his final match, or have him win the ECW Championship for one last time.

Rusty, the only type of emotion you'll get out of people would be booing and anger. You wanna know what they should truly do?

Let Jack Swagger play off of a Justin Credible original E.C.W. character, and basically trash that piece of shit title, then shit all over Dreamer's legacy. If Dreamer's truly calling it quits, his career won't be remembered for anything he's done in W.W.E. anyways.. so you might as well let Swagger gain from it.

Instead though, you wanna give Matt Hardy the opportunity to suck Dreamer off in a "I love you, you love me, we're a wrestling Family" match-up.. that's suppose to be for the 3rd biggest title, in W.W.E.

 

[Joker ' Ferreira]

So, one week goes by and all we get is... a backstage promo with Paul freaking Burchill?

It's this route they want to go with it? Tonight Dreamer will be squashed in 10 seconds in the Rumble so I don't see the point to them make this announcement so soon, if they made it after the Rumble it would make sense, right now it adds nothing to the table.

Dreamer wont start winning right now, probably just in 2 or 3 weeks, so, why doing it now? To make it even worse when Dreamer gets squashed? I just don't get it.

 

[klunderbunker]

I think what they're trying to do with it is put Dreamer at absolute rock bottom before he starts to climb to the top. June 6th is over four months away. There's just not enough guys on the ECW roster to stretch that out for. He needs to go very slowly right now because if he goes too fast, he'll run out of opponents way before June. This is being timed perfectly right now and it's by far the most intriguing storyline ECW had had in a long time. To rush it would be a shame. I like it so far, the little that I've seen of it. Please do the man justice WWE.