Todays Wrestlers: Dont look like "wrestlers"; arent tough guys anymore.

[Mitch Cumstein]

I really just want to hear everyone else's opinions on this rather than it be a rant.

Do you feel as if too many wrestlers today dont have "the look"?

Two things jump out at me when I think about this:

1: Lack of "larger than life" size
2: Lack of unique look

For some reason, now a days most of these wrestlers look like frat boys who work out a lot rather than larger than life fighters. There are so many wrestlers on the WWE roster (including "up and coming stars") that if you placed them in the WWE or WCW 10-15 years ago they would be members of the Mean Street Posse rather than taken seriously.

Miz
Alex Riley
Heath Slater
Justin Gabriel
Daniel Bryan
Evan Bourn
Ted Dibiase
Zack Ryder
Cody Rhodes
Jack Swagger
Alberto Del Rio
David Hart Smith


These guys all come to mind.


Coincidently, do you think this ties into that statement Batista made about how "a lot of the guys are just not tough guys anymore"? Do you think wrestling is not attracting the these type of men anymore?


3:00-3:55
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7dMVmLseUM


Discuss.....

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Uh well. They arent allowed to take steroids anymore, hello. Of course the guys who were on fucking gorilla hormones(I shit you not) back in the day were bigger.

They have also figured out its not a bad idea to tap into the female demographic, hence all the pretty boys with their pretty hair. They all most certainley have a look, "the look" is just different in the modern era.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

They have also figured out its not a bad idea to tap into the female demographic, hence all the pretty boys with their pretty hair. They all most certainley have a look, "the look" is just different in the modern era.

He isn't adorable to you?


Interesting topic. Most have criticized the WWE's untold policy about 'bigger is better' when it comes to the wrestlers. Well, most guys on Raw are under 6'3" (Khali is the tallest at 7'4" and Barrett is 6'7") and under 250lb (Khali is heavy and Henry is a fat ass). The WWE has really sized down, but unless you are being that f'n picky..

I don't know what to say.

 

[bluejt16]

i'll agree with some of them guys but alberto del rio, cody rhodes and ted diabiase i do not agree with, cody rhodes new gimmick is one of my favourite things on smackdown, it's annoying but it works, and del rio is the same, since he's come to the WWE i've fast forwarded every single match that guy is in, but he has a good image. the cars he comes out to the ring with are great to. and ted dibiase, though his gimmick is a bit out dated and like his fathers, they've modernised it a bit by instead of have virgal they have maryse, who is the best looking diva on raw!


as for batistas statement, i wouldn't totally agree with that but he does make a good point. but when you look at the roster there are quite a few "tough guys" on there, obviously when you've got guys like daniel bryan and evan bourne it's hard, but heck look at big zike, that guy is a machine!

 

[Ultra Awesome]

Well, in my opinion, to be considered a 'tough guy' doesn't only mean that they are big, bulked-up, steroid users. A 'tough guy' nowadays can easily be portrayed by someone like Wade Barret. He's not big, he's not that muscular; but he is a figure that holds authority and doesn't let anyone stand in his way from getting what he desires. Therefore, one can easily portray him as a 'Tough guy'.

But going into this topic, it's like Nor-Cal said, a lot of the new generation of wrestlers' appearance has to do a lot with the fact that it is a new era; an era where steroid usage is NOT permitted and well, being a 'pretty boy' is the IN right now. So, techinically, these wrestlers that you mentioned above DO infact have the look. They just don't have the look that wrestlers from previous eras have had.

In the end, it really doesn't matter. So long as these guys are able to deliver amazing feuds along with decent promos and decent in-ring ability, it's all fine. But if they were to go in to something like dressing in women's outfits and such, than yeah, something is deeply wrong with that.

 

[Cmac3311]

The best thing about these guys not having the old school wrestler look is simple, the fans can relate. We live in a society that loves reality TV, and lets be honest, wrestling isn't cool in most mainstream circles. The freaks of yesterday were larger than life cartoon characters that people my age got to look up to, times were simpler back then and people were into the larger than life personalities.

Today however our airwaves are dominated by reality TV, hell Jersey Shore is the most watched show on TV, that's saying something in itself.

When people watch wrestling today, they like seeing guys like Daniel Bryan, Evan Bourne and Justin Gabriel because they are no different than you and I in size or in body type. They are hugely talented performers and excellent role models for kids and it can send the message of not being a cyborg or gorilla; but simply being strong in your own body type and skin.

Am I looking too far into this? Possibly. But realistically, IMO, these guys get over because we can relate to them. I used to look up to Chris Benoit when I was growing up because he was 5'8", which is close to my size. Did he get squashed? Fuck no, he went out there and kicked the shit out of you and win or lose, the Crippler earned mad respect. (before the terrible events a few years ago).

Also if you look at MMA, 90% of the fighters are not juiced up freaks of nature, some are lanky, (Jon Jones, Nate Diaz), fat (Roy Nelson, etc.) and some are just in great lean shape (GSP, Rampage,etc.)

I have no problem with guys being of normal size and build, it's the quality of work in the ring that they present night in and night out that sticks out in my mind. And for some of us who wish they could be between those ropes on the grandest stage of them all, it's a little bit more realistic when those guys look like you do.

 

[Mitch Cumstein]

Well, in my opinion, to be considered a 'tough guy' doesn't only mean that they are big, bulked-up, steroid users. A 'tough guy' nowadays can easily be portrayed by someone like Wade Barret. He's not big, he's not that muscular; but he is a figure that holds authority and doesn't let anyone stand in his way from getting what he desires. Therefore, one can easily portray him as a 'Tough guy'.

But going into this topic, it's like Nor-Cal said, a lot of the new generation of wrestlers' appearance has to do a lot with the fact that it is a new era; an era where steroid usage is NOT permitted and well, being a 'pretty boy' is the IN right now. So, techinically, these wrestlers that you mentioned above DO infact have the look. They just don't have the look that wrestlers from previous eras have had.

In the end, it really doesn't matter. So long as these guys are able to deliver amazing feuds along with decent promos and decent in-ring ability, it's all fine. But if they were to go in to something like dressing in women's outfits and such, than yeah, something is deeply wrong with that.

You make some good points. However, wrestling is theatrical, not real life. Since these guys arent actually fighting, they have to give off the perception that they are larger than life tough guys.

Also, I think the fact that a lot of the older wrestlers were ex football players or amateur wrestlers helped them portray a aggressive, tough, physical character in and out of the ring. Whether it was the roid rages or not is a different story. But too many times now a days I feel like I see wrestlers struggling to look convincingly tough, strong, fierce, scary, or violent.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

You make some good points. However, wrestling is theatrical, not real life. Since these guys arent actually fighting, they have to give off the perception that they are larger than life tough guys.

Yes, and this is where people like Wade Barret come in. Look at his appearance; he's not exactly a "monster", but he still looks like he can play the role of a "tough guy", seeing as how he gives the whole psychological feel that he is a dominant wrestler (i.e. tough guy). Other examples include people like Big Show and Undertaker. Though, these guys are more or less from what can be considered the previous era, so I won't put emphasis on them.

Also, I think the fact that a lot of the older wrestlers were ex football players or amateur wrestlers helped them portray a aggressive, tough, physical character in and out of the ring. Whether it was the roid rages or not is a different story. But too many times now a days I feel like I see wrestlers struggling to look convincingly tough, strong, fierce, scary, or violent.

I can see what you're saying but look at it this way: Alot of what makes a wrestler a tough guy is due to the psychological attribution that their gimmick/appearance gives off. If you are a big guy (tall) and are in the very least muscular (or fat), and if you can portray a character where he is dominant (and such), then really you have your 'tough guy' right there.

Sure, it would be nice to see a 'tough guy' be more like that of the look of Batista or how Triple H was like back in '02 (do you remember that?---Guy was ripped and big as fuck); but like I said, this is a different era we live in now and well steroids are not allowed. So you just have to deal with with what have...

 

[Klown_Karnage]

Well, as Bob Dylan put it "the times, they are a-changin'".

The fact is that most of the fans in the old days were looking for these characters to be big and overblown. The more freakishly big, the better they liked it, and the more "believable" their victories were. Also, in early wrestling, the theatrically exotic and "supernatural" were also more pushed and less questioned. This lead to a lot of gimmicks that now-a-days would be considered not only ridiculous, but downright insulting to many. Anybody remember Kamala?

But times changed. Audiences began to want more "realism" (and, of course, they eventually stopped the steroid abuse) so gimmicks and wrestlers changed. It became not so much solely about what went on in the ring and backstage segments became more important. It became not so much how big you were as how well you could "preform".

In the now, I agree that many of the wrestlers don't seem that "tough". Many of them look as if they should be in the latest boy band rather than in the ring. At this time, it looks as if the WWE is dealing primarily in "ken dolls" because they're popular. Not only that, but it's the sort of look that their sponsors and the rest of the corporate media are trying to push. The media goes through eras as to what they are trying to tell the average male and female what they're supposed to look like and I think that the WWE, in order to keep their sponsors, is more than happy to push whatever look is in style at the time. Of course, that last might just be my own media paranoia.

Whatever the case, eventually times will change again, and who knows in what direction. We'll just have to wait and see what becomes fashionable next.

 

[waylonmercy]

I believe and hope the wrestling industry has shifted its focus away from HUGE guys who are using steroids continuously and going towards wrestlers who are shorter and smaller. The thing about shorter/smaller wrestlers is that they appear to be more athletic and better workers. It helps the WWE lower the bar in the sense of not having crazy spots like in hell in a cell or ladder matches and being able to entertain the fans by having safer wrestling. A better worker is not going to be as sloppy and you get less injuries. Also the lack of steriods will help WWE reduce the backlash from wrestlers dying younger.

One other thing, you don't have to be big to be tough. I'd NEVER cross a wrestler. I am sure they are taught moves that if real could do serious damage and these guys arent wimps by any means. Id take a guess that even the smallest of wrestlers are tougher than most of us.

 

[PhD]

I think the idea of big=steroid abuser is getting way too much currency in this thread. Dating back to the 19th century, pro wrestlers were always the dudes who were bigger than average. This doesn't mean that you need to be a 300 lb. monster, but you need to look credibly tough. And I think the TS has a solid point in noting that way too many guys on the WWE roster don't pass for tough in a conception. The foremost culprit of this is The Miz, a guy who looks like he's never been in a fight in his life.

And if people like realism so much, why is the NFL so popular? Normal people aren't that big. And how about NASCAR? Not many people have cars that can go 200 mph. You could think of plenty of examples, but suffice it to say that it wouldn't be hard to think of plenty of instances where "realism" is not a guiding principle in popular entertainment.

Whatever the reason, I would mind seeing more credibly tough-looking wrestlers in the WWE, guys that are closer to the Randy Orton prototype, or even the Jack Swagger type. I think cruiserweights have their place, but there is no way in hell someone as small (and as mediocre a worker) as The Miz should be contending for a heavyweight belt in an entertainment mode that is supposed to be "realistic" fake fighting.

 

[DRANGOKANE]

With all due respect to waylonmercy if I got into a fight with most of the guys listed I wouldn't be too worried, I'm sure I'd win. There are guys from 10 plus years ago who weren't all roided up like Big Boss Man, Earthquake, Tugboat, Papa Shango, Kamala, King Kong Bundy, that i wouldn't want mad at me.

 

[Karaoke Superstar]

I think that's just the evolution of the business. John Cena or Randy Orton wouldn't be half as marketable if they looked like a serial killer. In the entertainment business appearance is as important as actual talent. And as for all the tough guys, if you are a pro wrestler you definitely are tough, the best fighters will end up in mma now that it is a viable option.

 

[shattered dreams]

I suspect these guys are still plenty tough. No matter how "pretty" you look there is no easy way to do what they do as often as they do it. The way WWE works matches allows you to be a little less tough, yes, but you still have to work your way up to there.

As far as look, I actually think they look more like wrestlers and less like sideshow freaks. Being tall is not a characteristic that many real wrestlers share, nor is having an exceptionally big gut.

 

[blackmetalbuick]

The argument about being "relatable" is totally stupid. Who watches wrestling because they really want to relate to the people in the ring? Especially on a physical level. You can relate through the characters, the personalities, the storylines, but I'm not watching wrestling to see someone who looks like the average joe. No matter how high the hype got, I could never get behind someone like Samoa Joe. No matter what he does, he's just a slob to me.

I heard this same "relatable" argument being applied to Daniel Bryan. It was being said people like, or should like him, because we can relate to him. Again, that doesn't appeal to me. Trying to suspend my disbelief enough that I think a submission move from a 180lb weakling would actually hurt is too much to ask. Someone like Benoit actually looked like he could rip your head off in the crossface. Daniel Bryan doesn't. The Miz is another person with nothing to offer in the physique department.

Do I think guys should be juicing there lives away for my entertainment? No. Some guys I can still watch. Punk, Barrett, they still come across as tough without being huge. There have always been guys on the roster who are not big but still believable. Besides, a decent physique can absolutely be achieved without steroids. You can look better than the Miz and still not be injecting yourself with all kinds of chemicals.

As some have said, it is a sign of the times. Unfortunately for me, I'm not watching because I want to see pretty people wrestling. And this applies to the product overall. I'd rather have the TitanTron and red curtains back instead of this overdone HD/LED crap all over the place. Thankfully there are a few like Sheamus who still have the look. And I don't think he takes anything too crazy either. His body fat isn't at any crazy low level, overall his definition isn't that great, he's pretty smooth, but still looks like a beast.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

Ok. I am done looking at the ridiculously cute picture I posted..

I think the problem is that the way a lot of the wrestlers are booked and in some cases, the wrestlers' natural look and charisma.

For people who don't know, that picture I posted was of Justin Gabriel. What does that picture scream: 'emo lackey' or 'nice guy'? Whatever it screams to you, the guy's current character is to be a flying monkey to Wade Barrett. Don't get me wrong, I am one of the few who thinks the guy has been very good in his role.. But come on. So, this one example of a guy who has natural babyface charisma and looks being booked as a 'bad guy.'


Or you look at someone like David Otunga (I don't like looking at them, but you can knock yourselves out). Both are look like they even tie their shoes with all that muscle mass. But are you intimated by David Otunga? I mean he looks mean and stuff, I guess. But does he strike fear into your heart (unless you are worried he is going to hurt someone)? If he does, make sure your mommy tucks you in before you go to bed. So, this is one guy who has the 'look' and 'act', but doesn't present himself like a tough guy.


Finally, look at someone like Wade Barrett. I think most people here can appreciate something that Barrett brings to the table. A lot of people bring up the fact that he is genetically blessed in size. But look at some of the other 6'5-6-7" ish guys they have. Outside of Sheamus and Alberto Del Rio, do you buy into their presence? Are you scared of Lance Hoyt? What about Shad or Edge? Luke Gallows? I am sure I am missing some people that are Wade's size.. But I think that shows how much presence they have.



Yea.. I need to stop listening to NXT when I post.

 

[InterestingDrug]

I disagree with this. As with anything, wrestler's looks go with the times. Does anyone want to see the old school long haired wrestler anymore? Hogan, Windham, Dr.Death, P.S.Hayes, etc. Does anyone want to see an out of shaped blob of a man wrestling? Dusty, Adonis, Rose, etc. Does anyone want to see a jacked up steroid freak anymore? Hogan, Warlord, Hercules, etc. Does anyone want to see a guy with a mullet wrestling? MagnumTA, Lugar, Beefcake, Michaels, etc.

The guys today are no tougher than they ever were. There were smaller guys back in the day.. Michaels, Savage, Flair, Hart, Hennig, etc. The difference today is that the smaller guys now actually have a chance to win the championship, whereas back then, they werent given a chance.

Short hair is the look now. Just be glad nobody is sportin the Justin Bieber yet.

 

[KoC417]

Just be glad nobody is sportin the Justin Bieber yet.

Oh dear lord... Justin Bieber look = instant career suicide. I mean think about it..if a WWE star sported that look 25 years down the road someone could revive the pic on raw and totally destroy his character. Think of Vince McMahon's...well...rather hilarious music video that Jericho/Benoit brought out of the closet.

But on to the topic at hand... Define "wrestler". When I hear look like a wrestler I think either Lean or fairly muscular and physically strong. Exactly what most of the superstars of today's era are. Back then sure superstars were jacked up on steroids/hormones/Viagra (in the case of Flair) but as people said times change. Now everyone is so worried about their kids taking enhancements(roids) etc they have commercials warning against the dangers, etc etc. The wrestlers of this era have the perfect look, and yet the roster maintains a balance of looks. You've got Khali, Mark Henry, Evan Bourne, Randy Orton, John Cena all different builds.
Looks change with Eras. Hell who honestly would've thought WWE would've dedicated a show strictly for women?? Not to sound sexist but in both organizations the womens division is an absolute joke. Yet in this era its almost demanded.

And who says they aren't tough guys? Edge came back from a legit major injury that would've ended most peoples careers. I personally wouldn't want to piss any of those guys off on the roster. Can't judge the skill of a fighter by his size.

Oh and I'd just like to add.. I'd rather sit thru 16 hours of Cruiser-weight/Light-heavyweight highlights than a 15 minute John Cena match. I personally prefer smaller superstars because they CAN take those intense fun to watch high risk moves as opposed to the jacked up looking monkeys like Batista & HHH who have 5-6 basic moves and that's it.
The smaller guys you've got:
Top rope drop kicks
Spring boards
Moonsaults
suicide dives
hurricanrana's
Shooting Star Presses
outside high risk moves

 

[vampirek]

I find it funny Batista would say such a thing when his replacement looks and is a better badass than him. Sheamus is proof you don't need to be all roid up to be a tough guy and you don't want too many of them on your roster. Batista really did have one thing going for him and that was his size, he had nothing else at least with Sheamus you have that impact of knowing he can drown an opponent with one kick.

People go on about The Miz, why does he need to be all roid up and be a tough guy? It doesn't suit his character at all. His character is about nobody ever beliving he could make it to the big time yet time and again proves everyone wrong. He's basically the classic sneeky heel character. He doesn't rely on size, but takes advantage in other ways to pick up wins or down an opponent.

 

[darqknyt]

I think its not as simple as just saying that wrestlers no longer take steroids, hence they arnt bigger which somehow equals being pussy.The real tough guys like Reagal, JBL,Lance Storm etc weren't ripped or freakin' giants.I think its because of how sterilized the WWE has become.Back in the day,wrestlers used t become tough by having to travel around the world making a name for themselves on the indy scene, surviving riots in dingy arenas etc.These days, guys just go some wrestling school, go through to FCW( and OVW proir) and end up on TV 2yrs later.Guys don't have the drive to succeed like the older generation.

And also, the legit tough guys these days are going into MMA.It telling when you look at the guys who attend MMA shows:Taker, Batista, Austin etc.I've never seen Cena at a UFC event.If MMA was big back in the day, all the "tough guys" of pro-wrestling wouldn't even have gotten into prowrestling.

 

[Thesage1989]

I believe and hope the wrestling industry has shifted its focus away from HUGE guys who are using steroids continuously and going towards wrestlers who are shorter and smaller. The thing about shorter/smaller wrestlers is that they appear to be more athletic and better workers. It helps the WWE lower the bar in the sense of not having crazy spots like in hell in a cell or ladder matches and being able to entertain the fans by having safer wrestling. A better worker is not going to be as sloppy and you get less injuries. Also the lack of steriods will help WWE reduce the backlash from wrestlers dying younger.

One other thing, you don't have to be big to be tough. I'd NEVER cross a wrestler. I am sure they are taught moves that if real could do serious damage and these guys arent wimps by any means. Id take a guess that even the smallest of wrestlers are tougher than most of us.

yuup you right i always say i love wrestling but i aint ever getting in the ring. The look is ok with me yes some look a little bland but hey its the era we are in so i would make much fuss

 

[mikeyado]

Miz
Alex Riley
Heath Slater
Justin Gabriel
Daniel Bryan
Evan Bourn
Ted Dibiase
Zack Ryder
Cody Rhodes
Jack Swagger
Alberto Del Rio
David Hart Smith


These guys all come to mind.

Trust me, you would not want to get into a fight with Daniel Bryan, he is a grappler and a legit Ju Jitsu expert. As for Alberto Del Rio- WTF?! He's six five and used to do professional MMA! He's hard as nails. Just because he looks a bit refined and doesn't have a hairy back and some teeth missing, doesn't make him not tough.

 

[Trot]

While i agree that the Wrestlers of today dont have that same, "i eat lightning and shit thunder" look they dont realy need to, tough isnt realy a look, its an attitude, Miz dosnt look "Hard" but, hes in good shape, hes fit, Miz dosnt trow people around the ring, he is an oppertunistic fighter, he scarpers around and then beats on you for a few mins before hiting you with the SKF, Daniel Bryan dosnt look like a tought guy, but he may be one of the toughest guys on the WWE pay roll,

Clay Guida is a 155 pound runt, dosnt look pysiclay over powering, but hes damn sure one tough guy

if u put all ur tough eggs in the roid condition basket, then were gonna have all these Juiced Up WWE stars, living untill there 37, but hey, aslong as am entertained.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Today's wrestler is certainly preferable to the fat, old guys who used to lumber around the ring. Men like Bulldog Brower used to be the typical professional wrestler.

These guys never saw the inside of a gym..... and they trained on beer. They looked like a federation of Trevor Murdochs'.

Today's wrestler is an extension of a society that takes better care of itself. I'm reminded of pro football, in which players in the 1950's and 60's didn't even bother working out during the off-season. They would report to training camp overweight and use the camp to get back in shape. Today, players can't afford to do that if they want to keep their jobs. The sport is better because of it.

Same with wrestlers. The steroids era tipped things over too far in the opposite direction from Bulldog Brower, but it all led to the sleek looking wrestlers we see today.

Personally, I would rather look at Drew McIntyre than Dusty Rhodes......any day.

 

[Maestro48239]

I prefer the nowadays look of the average WWE superstar, case in point, Daniel Bryan, hes probably one of the best workers in the E right now.

Batista always bugged me with his holier-then-thou attitude, and I for one am glad he's gone. sure there are still a few roided out looking monsters, big Zeke, and Skip Sheffield come to mind, but do you honestly see either of them EVER getting a world title push? sure Zeke was the last one to hold the ECW title, but that is more like an IC or US title then a world title.