TNA Region, Nashville Subregion, First Round: (1) John Cena vs. (32) Earthquake

[enviousdominous]

As a few other posters have said, Cena would come out on top here with the classic formula of the top babyface vs. the 450 pound monster heel. Earthquake would beat Cena down for a good portion of the match in order to sell the fact that Earthquake is over 200 pounds heavier. Earthquake would hit pretty much all of the offense generally associated with a super heavyweight: splashes in the corner, elbow drops, splashes in the center of the ring, etc.

As is expected, I'm also certain that a super heavyweight like Earthquake would do cliche super heavyweight moves. Earthquake didn't get to where he was by only applying the move-set of Giant Haystacks. He proved that big men could entertain at a higher level by employing moves like the running neck-breaker and standing dropkick.

Classic formulas don't work so well anymore, especially when it concerns a performer who's long out lasted his welcome. The crowd will dictate who will be the face and heel of the match, I don't see a TNA crowd accepting John Cena as a face just because that's how a traditional storyline would dictate his role.

He'd eventually hit his finisher, Cena would kick out, Earthquake would sell shock and dismay while the crowd popped. Cena would eventually manage to rally going for the "Five Moves of Doom", he'd attempt an AA on Earthquake, Quake would slip out of it and regain control for a bit, go for another big avalanche/splash in the corner, Cena would move & cause Quake to ram the turnbuckles, Cena would scoop him up on his shoulders and hit the AA for the win.

Let's be real here. If John Cena is allowed to kick out of a finisher in TNA, it shouldn't be part of a winning effort. I see Cena being allowed to kick out of Earthquake's finisher as his favor for losing to Earthquake.

If everything went as you said, I don't see Earthquake laying down for the first successful AA. I don't see the crowd accepting that as a finish if they just witnessed Cena kick out of Earthquake's finisher not long ago.

Earthquake had the ability to go for long matches, and both men would recognize how much bigger their match would be if it wasn't just another John Cena win.

I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that after kicking out of the first AA, John might try another one after a few spots only to have Earthquake grab the ropes and cause Cena to gas himself trying to pull Earthquake away, Earthquake falls on Cena and the ref makes the count failing to see that Cena's foot was on the ropes.

I see John Cena vs Earthquake being a program that has the capability of going longer than just one match. John Cena doesn't usually win his first encounter in what's meant to be a series, not these days anyway. Cena even took the first fall in his encounter with Ryback. I'd give it to Cena if he already laid down for Earthquake before.

 

[GI Cake]

TNA has a very different vibe than the WWE, there's also the fact that John Cena performing for what was technically a different company as his WWE character was mildly tested when he performed at One Night Stand. While the event was created by the WWE, there wasn't a single person in that crowd that would identify as more of a WWE fan than they were an ECW fan.

I don't think that TNA wouldn't look at this as though John Cena obviously has to win because he's had so many accomplishments within the WWE, I think that they would look at this as Earthquake being the underdog going up against a very arrogant pro-wrestling entity in John Cena. The person being cheered for during a second wind would be Earthquake, the person who would be cheered for after winning would be Earthquake.

So the difference between the two companies is a different vibe? In this vibe a jobber to the stars beats one of the biggest names in professional wrestling history? That really makes no sense.

 

[Con T.]

If you don't see any relevance to my points, please address them and explain why they don't make sense to you.

Fine; I'll go ahead and explain why your entire argument is absolutely ridiculous. Let's start at the very beginning.

Earthquake is going to beat John Cena

Let's break that down.

Earthquake

This is a guy who is the very definition of jobber fed to Hogan. Earthquake was a decent wrestler, but a career mid card guy. He never had any real main event success on his own, he never won a singles title, he never accomplished jack shit, save for injuring Hulk Hogan. Which, mind you, wasn't even in a match.

is going to beat

Who have you ever watched Earthquake beat of note?

Hogan? No.

Savage? No.

Warrior? No.

Sting? Lulz, no.

Earthquake didn't win very many big matches.

John Cena

And you expect me to think he'll beat one of the greatest wrestlers ever, in a tournament to crown the greatest wrestler ever?

I mean, I could stop there, I hope you realize how dumb that statement is. But I'll humor you.

Earthquake will win in TNA

Why? John Tenta was retired from American competition before TNA was a company.

Because TNA fans hate Cena? Can you prove to me that TNA fans hate Cena? They may hate WWE, but do you have any evidence that all TNA fans hate John Cena?

Nope. No, you don't. And even if they did, TNA still has enough sense to let the biggest star in wrestling today go over Earthquake. John Cena has been dealing with partisan crowds for years... What makes this any different?

He paved the way for big men like Rodney Anoa'i and Nelson Frazier to be taken seriously as main event performers.

Oh, fuck off. Yokozuna got over, because he got over.

Oh, and no one took Mabel seriously as a main event threat.

In every endeavor John Tenta has applied himself to outside of the WWF/WWE, he's succeeded and was a class act in doing so.

Success is very relative. And I find it very hqard to believe if John Cena went to another promotion, he wouldn't be made world champion in his first match.

I'm not going to check myself into a mental health clinic with the reason being that I'm a pro-wrestling fan who believes that in a TNA ring Earthquake would have a shot at beating John Cena.

You got issues, pal; that's the very least of your problems.

 

[enviousdominous]

So the difference between the two companies is a different vibe? In this vibe a jobber to the stars beats one of the biggest names in professional wrestling history? That really makes no sense.

Are you disagreeing that there would be a different vibe between the WWE and TNA, or are you mocking the use of the term in general?

My reasoning for using the word vibe was to recognize the obvious fact that the TNA fan-base and the WWE fan-base can be very different sometimes. You can rarely post on article on the front page without causing an inevitable flame war between the two camps. One side thinks they're better than the other one, that's a basic summary of their vibes.

I agree that your interpretation of what I meant makes no sense, it's your own fault that such an obvious statement confused you.

John Cena being universally booed when he competed in front of ECW fans, and his being booed by at least half of the crowd in front of WWE fans, shows me that he'll probably be booed if he tried to market his talents to the TNA crowd. The vibe would be that they don't want the kind of entertainer that he is in their ring, they most certainly wouldn't want him to enjoy a spot as their number one guy.

 

[enviousdominous]

Fine; I'll go ahead and explain why your entire argument is absolutely ridiculous. Let's start at the very beginning.

Believe me, I appreciate the effort.

Let's break that down.

This is a guy who is the very definition of jobber fed to Hogan. Earthquake was a decent wrestler, but a career mid card guy. He never had any real main event success on his own, he never won a singles title, he never accomplished jack shit, save for injuring Hulk Hogan. Which, mind you, wasn't even in a match.

And as I've pointed out before, that was a different time. Hogan was already on top, Hogan wanted Earthquake to help keep him there. Within only a year of being on the roster in the WWF, Earthquake was already in the main event because Hulk Hogan wanted him there. I would call that an accomplishment for anyone who was coming up when Hogan was on top.

Who have you ever watched Earthquake beat of note?

http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwf/msg-show-nov-3990-5118.html

http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wcw/nitro-4080.html

Hogan? No.

Check number three in the first link.

Savage? No.

Check number eight in the second link.

Warrior? No.

They never worked together outside of John Tenta's debut.

Sting? Lulz, no.

He's not up against Sting, that's a different debate

Earthquake didn't win very many big matches.

He was an over heel, he knew that his job was to make the good guy look good. The crowd, especially a TNA crowd, doesn't want that same old story anymore. No matter how much both men attempt to dictate their reaction for them, Earthquake is going into this one as the favorite to win.

And you expect me to think he'll beat one of the greatest wrestlers ever, in a tournament to crown the greatest wrestler ever?

I don't expect you to think anything, I'd prefer it if you didn't just play to my expectations of you.

I mean, I could stop there, I hope you realize how dumb that statement is. But I'll humor you.

Again, thank you for your time.

Why? John Tenta was retired from American competition before TNA was a company.

Alright, how would you predict their reaction if he had never died and returned as his old gimmick?

Because TNA fans hate Cena? Can you prove to me that TNA fans hate Cena? They may hate WWE, but do you have any evidence that all TNA fans hate John Cena?

My reasoning for believing that the TNA crowd wouldn't accept Cena is based on the fact that Cena can barely hold a WWE crowd these days, and that his past performances in front of crowds that don't identify as WWE crowds hasn't gone very well for the direction of his character. I don't think that all TNA fans hate the WWE, I think that the odds are not in John Cena's favor that the TNA crowd would react favorably to him. It's a different place in a different time.

Nope. No, you don't. And even if they did, TNA still has enough sense to let the biggest star in wrestling today go over Earthquake. John Cena has been dealing with partisan crowds for years... What makes this any different?

I'm not trying to prove that the idea of TNA rebelling against Cena's image is a science, I'm suggesting the idea based on occurrences where John Cena attempted to market his image to a different crowd in the past. The vibe regarding John Cena doesn't seem to have changed since then.

Oh, fuck off. Yokozuna got over, because he got over.

You were so adamant about requiring evidence, and now you make this statement.

I think that Earthquake helped big men like Yokozuna get taken seriously by being a big man that was good enough to impress the likes of Hulk Hogan. Maybe he would have been pushed anyway based on his family tree, I personally feel that his rush to stardom was helped by John Tenta.

Oh, and no one took Mabel seriously as a main event threat.

I never said that anybody took him seriously as a main event threat, I suggested that his being in the WWF was aided by the fact that John Tenta proved that big men could perform well.

Success is very relative. And I find it very hard to believe if John Cena went to another promotion, he wouldn't be made world champion in his first match.

Which performer will appeal to an undecided fan is very relative as well.

John Cena defended his belt in front of an ECW crowd, and lost because if he didn't then everyone would have demanded refunds and no other One Night Stand would have been able to draw. John Cena's been world champion so many times that it's not interesting for some people anymore to see him defy the odds and win another championship. Earthquake was only granted a few opportunities to vie for a world title, he'd be more determined than Cena and I predict that the crowd would expect to see Earthquake finally get his due.

You got issues, pal; that's the very least of your problems.

This debate isn't about me, please stop worrying about me. It's getting a little creepy.

 

[Thriller Ant]

And as I've pointed out before, that was a different time. Hogan was already on top, Hogan wanted Earthquake to help keep him there. Within only a year of being on the roster in the WWF, Earthquake was already in the main event because Hulk Hogan wanted him there. I would call that an accomplishment for anyone who was coming up when Hogan was on top.

Hogan put Brutus Beefcake in the main event of Starrcade. Hogan getting people pushes is in no way indicative of a person's talent level.

http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wwf/msg-show-nov-3990-5118.html

http://www.profightdb.com/cards/wcw/nitro-4080.html

You did read those, right? A count out on a house show and a count out on Nitro, which was notorious for having main events end without clean finishes. Saying that Tenta is better than Hogan and Savage because he has one count out victory over each is completely ridiculous.

My reasoning for believing that the TNA crowd wouldn't accept Cena is based on the fact that Cena can barely hold a WWE crowd these days, and that his past performances in front of crowds that don't identify as WWE crowds hasn't gone very well for the direction of his character. I don't think that all TNA fans hate the WWE, I think that the odds are not in John Cena's favor that the TNA crowd would react favorably to him. It's a different place in a different time.

This could not matter any less in a one-off match in the first round of a tournament.


Wrestlers like Earthquake exist to lose to guys like Cena. That's how wrestling has worked for ever and will continue to work for decades to come.

 

[enviousdominous]

Hogan put Brutus Beefcake in the main event of Starrcade. Hogan getting people pushes is in no way indicative of a person's talent level.

You shouldn't be so hard on Hogan, alright.

Being allowed to work a main event with Hogan in the WWF in 1990 would be a dream for any performer, and Earthquake played his role superbly. I agree that getting a push from Hogan shouldn't be one's only reason for recognizing their talent, I made other points you know. For that matter, getting a push from Hogan shouldn't be immediately related to how he once put Brutus Beefcake in the Starrcade main event. Try to be a little more fair.

You did read those, right? A count out on a house show and a count out on Nitro, which was notorious for having main events end without clean finishes. Saying that Tenta is better than Hogan and Savage because he has one count out victory over each is completely ridiculous.

I didn't say that Tenta was better than Hogan and Savage. I was asked if he's ever defeated anyone of note, and he most certainly has. Obviously those wins didn't impress you, which is fine. This match isn't going to be no DQ and/or no count-out. Hogan or Savage would have never allowed John Tenta to get any kind of a win over either of them if they didn't respect him.

This could not matter any less in a one-off match in the first round of a tournament.

This theoretical match is taking place in a TNA arena, that makes all the difference.

Wrestlers like Earthquake exist to lose to guys like Cena. That's how wrestling has worked for ever and will continue to work for decades to come.

This isn't supposed to be a PPV match for a belt, this is a random match under TNA rules where John Cena will take on Earthquake.

If you haven't noticed, sometimes the villain becomes the hero in the world of pro-wrestling. Sometimes the crowd turns on the notion that they're supposed to witness the same old story told over and over again.

 

[Thriller Ant]

You shouldn't be so hard on Hogan, alright.

Being allowed to work a main event with Hogan in the WWF in 1990 would be a dream for any performer, and Earthquake played his role superbly. I agree that getting a push from Hogan shouldn't be one's only reason for recognizing their talent, I made other points you know. For that matter, getting a push from Hogan shouldn't be immediately related to how he once put Brutus Beefcake in the Starrcade main event. Try to be a little more fair.

Fine. Earthquake got the push because Hogan knew it would look cool when he beat him. Earthquake wasn't pushed because of talent, he was pushed because he was a big guy that Hogan could play the underdog against and look cool beating him.

I didn't say that Tenta was better than Hogan and Savage. I was asked if he's ever defeated anyone of note, and he most certainly has. Obviously those wins didn't impress you, which is fine. This match isn't going to be no DQ and/or no count-out. Hogan or Savage would have never allowed John Tenta to get any kind of a win over either of them if they didn't respect him.

A count out victory on Nitro doesn't mean that Savage respects him and a count out victory on a house show doesn't mean that Hogan respects him, but let's assume that's true. That still doesn't make Earthquake capable of beating either of them cleanly.

This theoretical match is taking place in a TNA arena, that makes all the difference.

No, it doesn't.

This isn't supposed to be a PPV match for a belt, this is a random match under TNA rules where John Cena will take on Earthquake.

If you haven't noticed, sometimes the villain becomes the hero in the world of pro-wrestling. Sometimes the crowd turns on the notion that they're supposed to witness the same old story told over and over again.

Again, that's fine, but it doesn't matter at all. The fact that TNA fans might cheer for Earthquake over Cena doesn't change the fact that Cena is exponentially better than Earthquake and would win this match handily.

 

[Franchize1990]

After all of the debating that I've read here on this thread, I have to give my vote to John Cena. The only difference that having the match taking place in a TNA ring would be the TNA creative people would book Cena as a heel if the fans were that much against him as the one guy has been saying throughout this whole debate. Having said that, if you have a heel Cena in a TNA tournament, you'd easily have the #1 pro wrestling heel today and for smart booking purposes, give Cena a pass to the TNA region finals where the only way he'd fail was if he ran into a face. And as Envious has stated, there's a group of people who are tired of watching the good guy win all of the time so, who knows? Cena might just walk through this region without any problem.

Speaking of TNA, it's not like WWE wrestlers have a hard time adjusting to the new change of scenery such as a TNA ring. A good amount of stars from the WWE have had a decent track record within TNA, heel or face. Kurt Angle, for example, was placed in the main event scene right out of the gate and was booked to win their World Championship within 6 months of his wrestling debut. Christian was able to take the title a little after two months after he had his first match with TNA. Cena has not only been the bigger mainstream star out of the three of them but has done more in a WWE ring than the both of them. So, without a shadow of a doubt if the TNA ring was to make such a difference, it would still have no effect on Cena's match with Tenta.

Accomplishment wise, Cena is a 14 time world champion who has had a track record of making guys over 400 pounds look like your everyday 20 pound dumbbell. Upsets may happen in the professional wrestling world, but a guy like Earthquake would not be able to do it.

 

[nightmare]

I have not watched TNA much recently, but did their ring get magical powers at some point? How the hell is the outcome of this match changed by the fact its in a TNA ring? Because the small crowd surrounding it are mostly smarks? Does that somehow mean Creative decides to eliminate Cena in the first round for the lulz? Does being in TNA mean Tenta is called Shark Boy 3XL & thus a fan favorite? Can I possibly add another question to this paragraph for emphasis? Well?




This match could take place on a trampoline oustide Home Depot & the outcome is still the same. John Cena picks up a victory & Tenta goes home to eat his feelings.

 

[enviousdominous]

Fine. Earthquake got the push because Hogan knew it would look cool when he beat him. Earthquake wasn't pushed because of talent, he was pushed because he was a big guy that Hogan could play the underdog against and look cool beating him.

That doesn't in any way concur with the point that I made. Selling a program the way that Earthquake did can't just be done by any random big guy off the street, Earthquake was pushed because he was a big guy with the talent to sell the program to the crowd.

A count out victory on Nitro doesn't mean that Savage respects him and a count out victory on a house show doesn't mean that Hogan respects him, but let's assume that's true. That still doesn't make Earthquake capable of beating either of them cleanly.

You've already conceded that Hogan chose to work a program with John Tenta because he knew that it would work, and it did. You've admitted that it was true that Hogan respected John Tenta.

A count-out win is still a win. This isn't a debate about whether or not Earthquake would win clean, this is a debate about whether he could win at all. He's beaten Hogan and Savage in the past, count-outs happen in TNA sometimes.

No, it doesn't.

I've already explained many times why it matters that this is in a TNA ring, I'll do so again for the sake of debate.

John Cena is a very unique performer, he's being promoted as the top face of a company that refuses to see his character in any other way. When he performed in front of ECW fans, even he knew that he wasn't walking out of that show with a win. Crowds tend to sour on the guy, I predict that TNA fans would react similarly to the ECW fans. John Cena is a golden child in the WWE, which in my opinion would make him toxic in TNA.

Again, that's fine, but it doesn't matter at all. The fact that TNA fans might cheer for Earthquake over Cena doesn't change the fact that Cena is exponentially better than Earthquake and would win this match handily.

Cena doesn't just win every match, I'm sure you find him to be exponentially better than a lot of people he's lost to. Sometimes he takes a loss because he's promised a huge pay off later, sometimes he takes a loss because it makes sense money-wise to put someone else in his place. John Cena can lose to someone like Earthquake.

 

[Thriller Ant]

That doesn't in any way concur with the point that I made. Selling a program the way that Earthquake did can't just be done by any random big guy off the street, Earthquake was pushed because he was a big guy with the talent to sell the program to the crowd.

Zeus did the same kind of program Earthquake did. You know, the guy who wasn't a wrestler.

You've already conceded that Hogan chose to work a program with John Tenta because he knew that it would work, and it did. You've admitted that it was true that Hogan respected John Tenta.

I was playing along with the fantasy world you live in. We'll never know if this is true, and it literally could not matter any less.

A count-out win is still a win. This isn't a debate about whether or not Earthquake would win clean, this is a debate about whether he could win at all. He's beaten Hogan and Savage in the past, count-outs happen in TNA sometimes.

It was a house show and Nitro. This is a tournament to crown the best wrestler of all time.

I've already explained many times why it matters that this is in a TNA ring, I'll do so again for the sake of debate.

John Cena is a very unique performer, he's being promoted as the top face of a company that refuses to see his character in any other way. When he performed in front of ECW fans, even he knew that he wasn't walking out of that show with a win. Crowds tend to sour on the guy, I predict that TNA fans would react similarly to the ECW fans. John Cena is a golden child in the WWE, which in my opinion would make him toxic in TNA.

So make him a heel. He's still better than Earthquake.

Cena doesn't just win every match, I'm sure you find him to be exponentially better than a lot of people he's lost to. Sometimes he takes a loss because he's promised a huge pay off later, sometimes he takes a loss because it makes sense money-wise to put someone else in his place. John Cena can lose to someone like Earthquake.

This is a single elimination tournament. There is not payoff later. This is essentially the blow off match and Cena is winning the blow off match against Earthquake 100 times out of 100.

I'm trying to explain this to you because it seems like you really don't get it. This isn't a question of if Cena could lose to Earthquake in a random one-on-one match. This is the first round of a major tournament where if you lose, you go home. Cena is not losing a match in this scenario, period. He probably wouldn't lose anyway, but he's definitely not losing in this scenario.

 

[ocekit]

I see Earthquake and John Cena wanting to give the crowd their money's worth, I see the crowd only getting what they paid for if John Cena loses.

While I understand your argument, and admire your dedication to Earthquake's cause, I just don't agree with this point. I don't usually buy into the effect of region or arena unless it's an overwhelming home field advantage (El Santo in Mexico, for example) or it causes a change in the match rules (like when we used to have the ECW Region), especially since this is an international tournament. There's no home field advantage for either man in a TNA ring and we don't know for sure whose side the crowd would be on.

If the crowd was for some reason against Cena and you see them getting their money's worth out of a loss, he's a big enough name that they'd likely book him as a heel, have him go deep into the tournament to rile up the crowd and build him up, and have him lose to a bigger name than Earthquake down the line in an even better match. That's how the crowd would get their money's worth.

 

[enviousdominous]

After all of the debating that I've read here on this thread, I have to give my vote to John Cena.

Care to reference the exact points that helped influence your decision? I'm having a hard time believing that you required any actual coaxing considering how you decorate your posts.

The only difference that having the match taking place in a TNA ring would be the TNA creative people would book Cena as a heel if the fans were that much against him as the one guy has been saying throughout this whole debate.

That one guy made a few other points too you know. I can see TNA begging John to just accept a heel role for his debut, I have a hard time seeing John accept a heel role considering he'll probably never be able to come back from one. If he turns heel and fails, his career fails. If he stays a face and fails, he keeps his loyal fan-base intact.

Having said that, if you have a heel Cena in a TNA tournament, you'd easily have the #1 pro wrestling heel today and for smart booking purposes, give Cena a pass to the TNA region finals where the only way he'd fail was if he ran into a face.

I get the feeling that you would rate John as the number one anything he sets his mind too. You know how Cena can play a great heel? By continuing to promote himself exactly as he has been promoting himself. It's working tremendously well for him in the WWE, you might think that he's the greatest heel of all time already considering how much of the WWE crowd boos him.

And as Envious has stated, there's a group of people who are tired of watching the good guy win all of the time so, who knows? Cena might just walk through this region without any problem.

That all depends on who is playing the good guy though. I made that argument when it was stated that this match looks like it would be to the standard of an early 90's face vs heel showdown. I feel that fans are a little more savvy these days regarding whether they accept the given role of a particular performer. It's not so much that they don't want to see a predictable program of a face vs a heel, it's that they don't want to see certain people get a series of mildly entertaining wins that they seem to feel that they're entitled to.

Speaking of TNA, it's not like WWE wrestlers have a hard time adjusting to the new change of scenery such as a TNA ring.

That all depends on the performer.

A good amount of stars from the WWE have had a decent track record within TNA, heel or face. Kurt Angle, for example, was placed in the main event scene right out of the gate and was booked to win their World Championship within 6 months of his wrestling debut.

That's Kurt Angle, a man whose resume goes a lot farther than just what he accomplished in the WWE. His popularity with the WWE helped him get over with TNA management, the fact that he still had a lot to prove of himself was what helped him get over with the TNA fans.

Christian was able to take the title a little after two months after he had his first match with TNA.

Christian is a very different performer when compared to John Cena. At that time John Cena wouldn't have sullied his good name by competing in one of their tiny venues, Christian was willing to help put TNA into a place where it could compete with the WWE.

Cena has not only been the bigger mainstream star out of the three of them but has done more in a WWE ring than the both of them. So, without a shadow of a doubt if the TNA ring was to make such a difference, it would still have no effect on Cena's match with Tenta.

Did Cena's mainstream star power help him when he was competing in front of ECW fans? I would say that his infectious character hurt his potential to get over with them more than it helped. TNA fans didn't just like Kurt Angle and Christian because they had some amount of success in the WWE, they liked them because they were willing to shed their WWE image and exclusively represent TNA. John Cena can't shed the image that the WWE made for him, no matter where he works he'll do so as a WWE franchise.

Accomplishment wise, Cena is a 14 time world champion who has had a track record of making guys over 400 pounds look like your everyday 20 pound dumbbell. Upsets may happen in the professional wrestling world, but a guy like Earthquake would not be able to do it.

This type of granted track record is part of why fans are so adamant about wanting to see him fail. Upsets do happen in the professional wrestling world, and it would be Earthquake's time to finally have his.

 

[enviousdominous]

Zeus did the same kind of program Earthquake did. You know, the guy who wasn't a wrestler.

I don't believe that Zeus is on the same level as Earthquake just because they both feuded with Hogan at one time. Hogan never let Zeus beat him.

I was playing along with the fantasy world you live in. We'll never know if this is true, and it literally could not matter any less.

It would matter for me to mention that you had earlier conceded the point that Hogan respected John Tenta considering you were starting to suggest otherwise. That's how an argument works.

It was a house show and Nitro. This is a tournament to crown the best wrestler of all time.

This is a match that for all we know is occurring on an episode of Impact Wrestling. I didn't see any suggestion that this is a PPV grudge match.

So make him a heel. He's still better than Earthquake.

That doesn't rebut my point, it confirms it. You argued that the TNA ring doesn't matter, and now you're admitting that you were wrong by not explaining how this match occurring in a TNA ring doesn't matter.

This is a single elimination tournament. There is not payoff later. This is essentially the blow off match and Cena is winning the blow off match against Earthquake 100 times out of 100.

Maybe in a WWE ring. Cena didn't win his debut for the WWE, he didn't win when he was presented to an ECW crowd, I'm willing to put money on him losing at Wrestlemania 30. This is not Cena's year, especially not in a different company.

I'm trying to explain this to you because it seems like you really don't get it. This isn't a question of if Cena could lose to Earthquake in a random one-on-one match. This is the first round of a major tournament where if you lose, you go home. Cena is not losing a match in this scenario, period. He probably wouldn't lose anyway, but he's definitely not losing in this scenario.

I appreciate any explanation you care to give. The crowd has seen Cena do it all and the majority of them seems tired of watching him do it all over again. The crowd hasn't seen Earthquake reach the top of the card and be granted the right to stay there, allowing that of him would be fresh and interesting.

 

[enviousdominous]

While I understand your argument, and admire your dedication to Earthquake's cause, I just don't agree with this point. I don't usually buy into the effect of region or arena unless it's an overwhelming home field advantage (El Santo in Mexico, for example) or it causes a change in the match rules (like when we used to have the ECW Region), especially since this is an international tournament. There's no home field advantage for either man in a TNA ring and we don't know for sure whose side the crowd would be on.

Kudos for being so respectful. John Cena is supposed to have home field advantage in the WWE in the same manner that El Santo had home field advantage in Mexico, though the WWE crowd is often very vocal about their lack of support for him. Even though the WWE crowd seems to have soured on him, he is the embodiment of what the WWE promotes. I feel that John Cena taking his image to another company would be like El Santo waving the Mexican flag on his way to a match held in Puerto Rico.

We can never know for sure whose side the crowd would be on, I've felt strongly enough about my opinion to substantiate it with comparisons like John Cena's spots being booed incessantly when he performed in front of ECW fans. I'm not saying that ECW and TNA are kindred spirits, I'm saying that the effect John Cena has on fans of other organizations is often toxic.

If the crowd was for some reason against Cena and you see them getting their money's worth out of a loss, he's a big enough name that they'd likely book him as a heel, have him go deep into the tournament to rile up the crowd and build him up, and have him lose to a bigger name than Earthquake down the line in an even better match. That's how the crowd would get their money's worth.

But then you have to look at how he's being booked now, and how booking John Cena to win at Wrestlemania 29 turned out for the WWE.

I don't think that John Cena would ever accept a role as a heel. I don't think that it makes sense financially and I don't think that John Cena would willingly alienate his fan-base. John Cena knows that the people who hate him won't just start loving him because he's suddenly doing the opposite of what he did before. He'll rile up the crowd regardless of what kind of character he plays, I don't see him risking his career by taking a heel role.

The crowd got their money's worth when John Cena laid down for RVD. While the crowd loved RVD, they really hated John Cena. That crowd would have paid to see John Cena lose to anybody, and Earthquake can make a strong performance. If you're wanting to promote John Cena, I wouldn't predict that he'll probably lose eventually given the concession that the crowd will probably hate him.

 

[Nate DaMac]

This idea that TNA fans are somehow comparable to ECW fans is laughable. TNA fans are the same as WWE fans. They aren't some niche promotion like ROH is or ECW was, they are WWE Lite. If Cena debuted in TNA, he would be the golden boy. He would be the biggest acquisition they have ever made. TNA fans would be ecstatic because, for the first time ever, they may be able to realistically compete with WWE and be seen something other than the 2nd best company.

Earthquake being signed by TNA would be akin to Mark Henry being signed to TNA. He'd get a push, but not at the expense of the biggest star of the past decade. And Mark Henry is better than Tenta.

 

[#tamale]

Kudos for being so respectful. John Cena is supposed to have home field advantage in the WWE in the same manner that El Santo had home field advantage in Mexico, though the WWE crowd is often very vocal about their lack of support for him. Even though the WWE crowd seems to have soured on him, he is the embodiment of what the WWE promotes. I feel that John Cena taking his image to another company would be like El Santo waving the Mexican flag on his way to a match held in Puerto Rico.

El Santo has homefield advantage in Mexico because he was the biggest draw in Mexico. John Cena has homefield advantage in the USA because he's the biggest draw in the USA. To them, the promotion they work for doesn't matter. They will always be the top draws and be treated as such.

So mid-card giants like Earthquake will be fed to the top stars on semi-major wrestling cards. It doesn't matter if it's WWE, TNA, or Venus. Outside of a run-in beatdown that Earthquake would give him to build for their match; John Cena will always beat Earthquake. It's what's best for business.

 

[Tastycles]

I'm not getting sucked into an argument on this, because any argument is ludicrous. The facts are this:

Earthquake is the sort of guy that exists in pro wrestling to beat up little faces and then lose to the big named face. A heel with no character depth. Cena is a prototype for being a top face. There is no argument that washes here, Cena wins.

 

[LSN80]

How did this get to the point where it reached seven pages? John Cena has been the top unchallenged face in wrestling longer then anyone in wrestling history. Longer then Rock. Longer then Hogan. Longer then Austin. He may not have the popularity and sustainability in that sense that the others do, but he's been on top longer as a face. That's one heck of an accomplishment.

Oh, and there's that pesky fact that in nine years, he's been a fourteen time World Champion. Earthquake? He got a feud with Hogan over the World Title, which he lost, and Hogan threw him out with ease when they were the final two in the Royal Rumble. He went on to win a Tag Team championship, but here's a list of people who have won the tag team championships as well in Cena's era.

-Ted DiBiase
-Cody Rhodes
-David Otunga
-Heath Slater
-Justin Gabriel
- Lance Cade(RIP)
- Trevor Murdoch
- Tyson Kidd
-Harry Smith
-Chavo Guerrero
-Drew McIntyre

Why did I list these names, and omit bigger stars such as Edge and Orton? Because unlike the names on the list(which is off the top of my head) all of these men achieved little else. Some are still with the company, and all of them are men Cena has beaten in one on one competition, mostly squashes.

Earthquake's biggest accomplishment is a very short Tag Team Championship reign with his buddy Typhoon. After one retention, they lost the titles back to Money Inc.

Let's keep one other thing in mind: Earthquake was billed as a monster heel, one who faces had to overcome the odds to defeat. Well gee whiz, does that sound like anyone we know? Maybe Mr. Hustle, Loyalty, and Respect himself?

John Cena has the chance to be the most accomplished wrestler, championships wise, in the history of professional wrestling. Not only this, but he's retained those championships against the biggest and best of his era. Earthquake's stint in the main event can be equated to a Umaga or Great Khali, both who Cena beat multiple times to retain his championship.

What would make Earthquake different? This isn't sumo, it's professional wrestling. And Earthquake finds himself up against, in my humble opinion, the greatest professional wrestler of all-time.

He's Mark Henry at Money In The Bank 13. Earthquake dominates for a couple minutes, Cena makes his comeback, Five Knuckle Shuffle, AA, STF, Earthquake taps to advance Cena to the second round.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

Kudos for being so respectful. John Cena is supposed to have home field advantage in the WWE in the same manner that El Santo had home field advantage in Mexico, though the WWE crowd is often very vocal about their lack of support for him. Even though the WWE crowd seems to have soured on him, he is the embodiment of what the WWE promotes. I feel that John Cena taking his image to another company would be like El Santo waving the Mexican flag on his way to a match held in Puerto Rico.

We can never know for sure whose side the crowd would be on, I've felt strongly enough about my opinion to substantiate it with comparisons like John Cena's spots being booed incessantly when he performed in front of ECW fans. I'm not saying that ECW and TNA are kindred spirits, I'm saying that the effect John Cena has on fans of other organizations is often toxic.



But then you have to look at how he's being booked now, and how booking John Cena to win at Wrestlemania 29 turned out for the WWE.

I don't think that John Cena would ever accept a role as a heel. I don't think that it makes sense financially and I don't think that John Cena would willingly alienate his fan-base. John Cena knows that the people who hate him won't just start loving him because he's suddenly doing the opposite of what he did before. He'll rile up the crowd regardless of what kind of character he plays, I don't see him risking his career by taking a heel role.

The crowd got their money's worth when John Cena laid down for RVD. While the crowd loved RVD, they really hated John Cena. That crowd would have paid to see John Cena lose to anybody, and Earthquake can make a strong performance. If you're wanting to promote John Cena, I wouldn't predict that he'll probably lose eventually given the concession that the crowd will probably hate him.

Well y'know, it's pretty obvious that Cena should win here. Are you a silly billy or something.

Cena beats Earthquake via Hurricanrana after 8 seconds. I think the money decision is Cena winning unanimously because everybody likes Cena, even you but you don't know it yet, but you will. So just vote right yeah?

 

[LSN80]

A count-out win is still a win. This isn't a debate about whether or not Earthquake would win clean, this is a debate about whether he could win at all. He's beaten Hogan and Savage in the past, count-outs happen in TNA sometimes.

Here's the problem with this scenario. Those count-out wins weren't in matches that meant anything, and Earthquake actually lost to Hogan by count-out for the WWF Title. This is a big-time match, equatable to the WWF Title.

If anyone loses by countout here, it's Earthquake.

Crowds tend to sour on the guy, I predict that TNA fans would react similarly to the ECW fans. John Cena is a golden child in the WWE, which in my opinion would make him toxic in TNA.

ECW was an alternative to the WWF. TNA? It's WWE with poorer booking and less talent. Cena would be a God-send to TNA, and the only prayer TNA would have in competing with WWE, ratings-wise.

Tenta, were he still alive, would be losing Monster's Ball matches to Abyss.

Cena doesn't just win every match, I'm sure you find him to be exponentially better than a lot of people he's lost to.

Him being a 14 time champion says that he's better then everyone he's competed in the ring with, accomplishment wise. He never faced Flair, the only man ahead of him, so he's never lost to a more decorated wrestler. Ever.

Sometimes he takes a loss because he's promised a huge pay off later, sometimes he takes a loss because it makes sense money-wise to put someone else in his place.

Cm Punk. Daniel Bryan. Edge. Randy Orton. Those four have been Cena's main foils, and all of them are multi-time World Champions. In the case of Edge and Orton, heels, they've won 11 and 12 respectively. This past feud with Orton aside, every feud Cena has had with both Edge and Orton ended with Cena victorious.

John Cena can lose to someone like Earthquake.

Again, think Mark Henry at Money In The Bank 2013. Henry created a tremendous angle, but the script was as it should have been. Henry tossed Cena around for a bit, but Cena adjusted, and Henry tapped out clean to the STF.

Earthquake never achieved the success that Mark Henry did, and that's not saying much. Where in there is any implication that Earthquake would be doing anything but tapping to the STF, as every star, mid-carder, and jobber of his era has done?

 

[Franchize1990]

Care to reference the exact points that helped influence your decision? I'm having a hard time believing that you required any actual coaxing considering how you decorate your posts.

I'm not going to lie, I went into this match up with the mindset that Cena takes this first round match-up easily against Earthquake. Having said that, I was reading the thread to see if there were any posts that could legitimately sway my opinion that this match would go any different. The exact points where it was confirmed in my mind was:

1.) "The only reason the crowd would pay money to watch John Cena wrestle in a TNA arena would be to watch him lose"

So why would TNA as a company make a bad business decision and have Cena lose here when they can continue to keep having those fans pay their money to keep watching Cena come close to losing, only to win until he runs into a more established guy? The reason Cena's win against JBL at WM 21 was so big was because JBL was the heel that kept finding ways to win against guys like The Undertaker, Eddie Guerrero, and Booker T. It got to a point where you wanted to see JBL lose and lose in a big way, such as the biggest ppv in pro wrestling, to a big star, such as John Cena. Unless you are willing to put Earthquake in the final four of this region, having Earthquake pulling off an upset like this makes absolutely no sense.

2.) "I'm under the impression that a TNA ring makes a huge difference."

Failed to sway me on this statement. While they are outside of the WWF/E ring, it still is inside the world of professional wrestling. In a professional wrestling ring, John Cena is still a 14 world champion amd is still one of the bigger draws in the business whether he's booked to win or lose. Earthquake doesn't have those credentials and, again, unless you have Earthquake going deep in this tournament to make him a legit bonafide star in pro wrestling, then you're wasting money compared to the money that you could be making farther down the road in this tournament.

Those were the two main quotes that you said that sealed the deal for me.

That one guy made a few other points too you know. I can see TNA begging John to just accept a heel role for his debut, I have a hard time seeing John accept a heel role considering he'll probably never be able to come back from one. If he turns heel and fails, his career fails. If he stays a face and fails, he keeps his loyal fan-base intact.

But most of the fans that turned on him absolutely loved John Cena when he was a heel in the WWE. It's a major reason that he turned face in the first place. He played the perfect heel in the ECW One Night Stand PPV and, yes I know that he lost that match. But, he lost because that was the big payoff for that feud. It hasn't reached that point where it's time for Cena to lose yet.

I get the feeling that you would rate John as the number one anything he sets his mind too. You know how Cena can play a great heel? By continuing to promote himself exactly as he has been promoting himself. It's working tremendously well for him in the WWE, you might think that he's the greatest heel of all time already considering how much of the WWE crowd boos him.

I'd label him as the top heel in TNA because as you have said in this debate, the "TNA fans would react similarly to the ECW fans." That is the type of reaction that only some of the top heels get and other heels could only dream of getting. If people are paying to watch you get beat instead of the other person winning, that means you are a great heel in a classic use of the term. Heels have to win to make the crowd hate them more and more. I'll say I'm going with Cena until if/when he meets up with Sting. Then, the argument for a TNA ring would have a huge impact on the result. Not now.

That all depends on who is playing the good guy though. I made that argument when it was stated that this match looks like it would be to the standard of an early 90's face vs heel showdown. I feel that fans are a little more savvy these days regarding whether they accept the given role of a particular performer. It's not so much that they don't want to see a predictable program of a face vs a heel, it's that they don't want to see certain people get a series of mildly entertaining wins that they seem to feel that they're entitled to.

I believe those fans want to see a good story with their favorite wrestler getting over at the end of the day whether he's a face or a heel. If there's no favorite in the story, then they'll want to see a story that makes sense at the end of the day. Normally, that results in the good guy going over the bad guy. Either way, there is nothing wrong with delaying what the fans want for a good payoff. Just look at Daniel Bryan for WM 30.

That all depends on the performer. That's Kurt Angle, a man whose resume goes a lot farther than just what he accomplished in the WWE. His popularity with the WWE helped him get over with TNA management, the fact that he still had a lot to prove of himself was what helped him get over with the TNA fans. Christian is a very different performer when compared to John Cena. At that time John Cena wouldn't have sullied his good name by competing in one of their tiny venues, Christian was willing to help put TNA into a place where it could compete with the WWE.

So Cena's popularity in North America wouldn't get him over with TNA management? He's the most liked athlete according to Facebook why wouldn't TNA use that to help put more butts in the seats? I'm not saying put the belt on Cena from the time he steps foot in a TNA ring, but having him lose to Earthquake in the first round of a big-time tournament is just not that realistic. The more often you have Cena wrestle, the more people you have watching your product.

Did Cena's mainstream star power help him when he was competing in front of ECW fans? I would say that his infectious character hurt his potential to get over with them more than it helped. TNA fans didn't just like Kurt Angle and Christian because they had some amount of success in the WWE, they liked them because they were willing to shed their WWE image and exclusively represent TNA. John Cena can't shed the image that the WWE made for him, no matter where he works he'll do so as a WWE franchise.

Again, Cena's role in font of the ECW fans was that of a heel. And his popularity in the WWE did indeed help him in front of the ECW fans. A less popular Cena doesn't generate the reaction that Cena got. Similar to what you said, you could have put just about anybody in RVD's position at One Night Stand but, you couldn't have Cena replaced and have the same type of feel to that match. Cena is probably the ultimate definition of a company man. The reason he represents the WWE in everything he does is because he works for the WWE. It wouldn't be that far of a stretch to imagine that if he were to be a part of the TNA brand, everything he'd do then would be for the promotion of TNA. I don't believe Ken Anderson has completely shed the WWE stigma, as he still does the entrance in TNA that he was known for in the WWE.

This type of granted track record is part of why fans are so adamant about wanting to see him fail. Upsets do happen in the professional wrestling world, and it would be Earthquake's time to finally have his.

And they will keep paying to watch Cena matches with the hope that he gets beat. And then Cena will win. They fans pay again, then Cena wins in the second round. This can go on and on to the point where whoever beats him in the tournament would go into the TNA Hall of Fame off of that match alone. But, that doesn't happen if Cena is eliminated early. Don't blow it this early by having Earthquake beat Cena then having a match where nobody is watching between Earthquake and Arn Anderson/Christian.

 

[The Brain]

Three years in the future, snippet from a spam thread discussing the 2017 WZ tournament starting soon: "Remember that one year when someone had like 50 posts trying to get Earthquake past John Cena? LOL"

You've made your mark enviousdominous but we all know Quake has no chance here. You probably would have just been better off saying you met Earthquake and liked him personally so you want to give him a vote because of you personal admiration. That would have been reasonable, but that probably wouldn't have given you what you wanted. I have a feeling you're enjoying taking on the world in this thread even though you know it's a lost cause. Nothing wrong with that if that's how you like to pass the time but we all (probably including you) know Cena should win and is going to win. Earthquake never did anything significant as a singles wrestler outside the program with Hogan in 1990. The Natural Disasters were a decent tag team but that's not quite enough to go over one of the best ever. I'm not really looking to join your debate (but I probably will if you want me to). I just wanted to get my post in as I'm trying to participate in every match, even the obvious ones.

 

[HBsam31]

Cena wins this one easily. Earthquake was brought in to lose matches like this. I liked Earthquake and he had a good career, but this is John Cena. The face of a company. Cena has beaten everyone, and he would beat Earthquke. Cena moves on to the second round.