Time To Man Up...

[NSL]

...and admit I was wrong...

Sly,

I was wrong to think the relaxed spam rule would kill the forums. While I still think there's quite a bit of "crappy" posts around here, it didn't have quite the negative effect I thought it would. In fact, I've quite enjoyed my time in the NWS sections, and have even dabbled in the wrestling sections...

You were right, I was wrong...Go ahead and gloat about it...

-NSL

 

[BooCocky]

Well Obviously, Sly is never wrong...

 

[NSL]

Well Obviously, Sly is never wrong...

He's been wrong before. Just not on this.

 

[Slyfox696]

Well Obviously, Sly is never wrong...

This.

 

[BooCocky]

Never... Not once...

 

[NSL]

Never... Not once...

1. He thinks Rick Steiner is better than Jerry Lynn as a singles wrestler.

2. He refuses to believe that ECW's existence spawned the Attitude Era, and ensuing Monday Night Wars.

 

[BooCocky]

Steiner is the man.... and ECW was hardly a threat...

 

[NSL]

Steiner is the man.... and ECW was hardly a threat...

Steiner was good, but he was no Jerry Lynn.

ECW was a threat in the major markets of Philly and NY. That's all Vince and Eric needed to be worried...

 

[Kanye South]

I think WCW can be credited for starting the Attitude Era. The nWo forced the WWE to start coming up with more innovative and edgy stories.

 

[NSL]

I think WCW can be credited for starting the Attitude Era. The nWo forced the WWE to start coming up with more innovative and edgy stories.

The nWo was '96. ECW started in '92.

 

[Kanye South]

The Attitude Era didn't start getting big until '96.

 

[NSL]

The Attitude Era didn't start getting big until '96.

Because there was 3 years of ECW building up stars that WWF and WCW were stealing, as well as moves and storylines. Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, and a list of others all got their starts under Heyman and Gordon in Philly.

EDIT: Also, Terry Taylor (who was helping with booking at the time), admits to stealing ideas and angles from ECW.

 

[Slyfox696]

The nWo was '96. ECW started in '92.

Which only proves that WCW started Attitude.

Because Attitude is a WWF movement of programming. And the WWF never did Attitude until WCW kicked it's ass with a product that skewed to an older audience.

And WCW skewed to the older audience because that was the more common audience for the TNT television station, not to mention the general NWA style promoting they were still doing at the time.

ECW had nothing to do with it. At all. Anyone who says different either doesn't know what they are talking about, or has a bias in the matter.

 

[klunderbunker]

Steiner over Lynn? Ummmmm.....thinking no, given Steiner's pure awfulness towards the end of WCW. At his best, yes, Steiner over Lynn, but I'll take Jerry overall. It's close though.

Second, I wouldn't say ECW caused the Attitude Era. It might have inspired it and yes there was stuff stolen from ECW, but I wouldn't say ECW caused it.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Which only proves that WCW started Attitude.

Do people disagree with that? Everything that WWE did was a reaction to the attitude in WCW.

Because Attitude is a WWF movement of programming. And the WWF never did Attitude until WCW kicked it's ass with a product that skewed to an older audience.

WCW should have made commercials with that word.

And WCW skewed to the older audience because that was the more common audience for the TNT television station, not to mention the general NWA style promoting they were still doing at the time.

ECW had nothing to do with it. At all. Anyone who says different either doesn't know what they are talking about, or has a bias in the matter.

ECW was about violence. WCW was about adult story lines. The stories made Attitude, not the blood.

 

[Kanye South]

People give ECW too much credit. ECW was no fucking threat to the WWE. And out of the people you listed, none were influential in the Attitude Era other than Jericho and to a smaller extent, Guerrero and Benoit. Both were basically just midcarders for the Attitude Era. Mysterio didn't come until '02.

 

[NSL]

ECW was about violence. WCW was about adult story lines. The stories made Attitude, not the blood.

Does everyone that never watched ECW think it was all blood and violence? Or, are there people that see that they had an entirely different product? They brought the luchadors to the US, they had great technical wrestling, and they had some great storylines. Raven/Sandman, Franchise/Pitbulls, Dreamer/Raven, Lynn/RVD, RVD/Sabu, Taz/Sabu, the bWo...

 

[Slyfox696]

Does everyone that never watched ECW think it was all blood and violence?

Nope...it was full of terrible storylines and piss bucket wrestling too.

But, there's a reason why ECW SOLD the image of blood and violence...because the majority of its workers weren't good enough to put on competent matches without it.

They brought the luchadors to the US

No they didn't. I have already proved this several times now.

they had great technical wrestling

No they didn't. Just because workers tried to work a technical style, didn't mean they had great technical wrestling.

and they had some great storylines. Raven/Sandman, Franchise/Pitbulls, Dreamer/Raven, Lynn/RVD, RVD/Sabu, Taz/Sabu, the bWo...

Overrated, insignificant, boring, terrible, terrible matches, don't know, and a parody....that's great storylines?

 

[NSL]

Overrated, insignificant, boring, terrible, terrible matches, don't know, and a parody....that's great storylines?

If I'm following this, you're saying the Franchise v. Pitbulls feud was insignificant? How? It started with Shane Douglas winning the TV Title, and carried hyim, and the belt, to the top of the company. It entrenched him as the top heel, and it ave the belt more credibility than it ever had before, and that wasn't equaled until RVD won the belt and ran with it. The Pitbulls may have become "insignificant" following the feud, but it was the catalyst to Shane being one of the faces of the company.

 

[Coco]

Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, and a list of others all got their starts under Heyman and Gordon in Philly.

Do you really think Jericho, Benoit, Austin, Malenko, Mysterio and Guerrero wouldn't have been picked up by the WWF or WCW if there was no ECW?

 

[NSL]

Do you really think Jericho, Benoit, Austin, Malenko, Mysterio and Guerrero wouldn't have been picked up by the WWF or WCW if there was no ECW?

The fact you included Austin here makes me discredit anything you say about ECW. He was fired by Bischoff, because WCW didn't think he was marketable. They figured he was past his prime, and would be nothing but a bum. It was in ECW that he was allowed to blossom, and create the Rattlesnake character, and that's what got him in the WWE.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

Do you really think Jericho, Benoit, Austin, Malenko, Mysterio and Guerrero wouldn't have been picked up by the WWF or WCW if there was no ECW?

GO read my debate in the alternate Battle Royal