Thoughts on The Rockers??

[supernatural1981]

Last night i watched a WWE Vintage episode here in the UK all about The Rockers.

I grew up with them being my favorite tag team and i remember having a VHS which had Marty Jannetty vs Pat Tanaka in MSG and Jannetty reversing a pile driver for the win. Anyway what are your thoughts/memories of The Rockers??


Are they overrated due to the fact Shawn Michaels was a member of the team?

Is Marty Jannetty underrated due to his tag partners singles legacy??

Should they of held the WWF tag team titles (officially) at least once??

so lets hear what your thoughts on an innovative, high flying team that produced possibly the greatest wwe superstar ever.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Should they have held the tag titles officially at least once?

Probably, but I understand completely why they didn't.

They were a fun team to watch, and considering how deep the tag division was in their day, combined with the fact that they would run multiple shows nightly back then... the Rockers were the type of team that they could keep away from the titles, and still draw.

Plus Demolition, who were the champs the majority of the time they were together, were such good champions, and in the big man late 80's, it wasn't quite believable that a team as small as the Rockers could realistically beat them.

But you could put the champs on one show as a draw, and then have the Rockers on another show and that would draw too. Since that's the name of the game at the end of the day, that's all that mattered. I know myself, if making the Rockers my champs isn't going to increase my gate on one show, but will decrease my gate on my second show... then I'm not making the Rockers my champs.

Plus if you want to take it a step further, their attitudes backstage probably didn't give the company a lot of confidence in them as champions. The Rockers were fired more than once I believe for basically being dicks, and they didn't really get behind either Michaels or Jannetty until after the steroid trials, when they needed to get behind the smaller guys that weren't so obviously juiced.

Had the Rockers come along as a team 5 years later, they probably would have been the most decorated champions in WWE history. Of course, one of them ended up doing a little better for himself than that.

 

[wrestler36]

The Rockers were an awesome tag team during the late 80s and early 90s. They were very innovative for their time. I think it was RR '91, Michaels performed a moonsault which I had only seen The Genius Lanny Poffo do. A lot of their quickness and tandem moves made them stand out from the crowd. I believe they actually did win the tag titles at a non televised event (maybe recorded for Coliseum Home Video?) but never aired it because one of the ropes broke. Check out their match with the Hart Foundation in 1990 at Saturday Night's Main Event. Tag wrestling at their best. But, there were the Rougeaus, Harts, Demolition, Natural Disasters, Powers of Pain, LOD etc, so the division was pretty saturated. Funny enough, at the time, I had thought that Jannetty was going to be the breakout of the group as he was the one who usually received the hot tag. I'd like to say that he was underrated, but his drugs and partying was his own undoing

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

The Rockers were a fantastic team, and deserving of the praise they got. I agree with MojoRisin. They could've been given the tag titles at some point very easily, but they were over enough and putting on great matches, that it was worth it for them not to be the champs. Some of their matches with the Hart Foundation and The Rougeaus were some of the best tag team matches I've seen. I think Janetty was underrated in comparison to Michaels, but I can't knock Michaels at all. The guy was talented and solid on the stick.

From all accounts, Janetty sabotaged himself in his career, so not much to be done about that. At least Janetty had his chance to shine in their singles feud.

 

[LODemolition]

I was never much of a fan of them growing up, but I will say that they should've held the tag team titles at least once because they had quite a few fans and they did work really well as a team. It's a shame they didn't give them the championships at the next event after the rope broke on SNME. I understand not airing this match because of this fact, but I never understood why this changed Vince's mind about putting the straps on them. Maybe they broke up soon after. I don't know how much time passed between this match against the Hart Foundation and Shawn's heel turn.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

I never really appreciated The Rockers when I was growing up. After going back and watching a lot of their work at an older age I really began to appreciate just how talented they were. It didn't matter who they were working, they always put out solid performances.

I don't think they were overrated, or underrated. I think they were utilized in the best way they could have been considering the level of their personal problems with drugs and alcohol. While they had all the ability in the world to carry the tag straps the just didn't have the reliability to hold them in a time period when tag wrestling was still very much taken seriously.

It also can't be forgotten that a lot of what plagued The Rockers' success was Michaels getting injured and them throwing different guys in with Marty. A young Shane Douglas, and even Jim Powers were thrown in with Marty to run house show loops while Michaels was out with a knee injury.

 

[justtxyank]

From all accounts, Janetty sabotaged himself in his career, so not much to be done about that. At least Janetty had his chance to shine in their singles feud.

Actually, Michaels sabotaged Jannetty's career by lying about him to Vince and getting him fired. That set off a chain reaction that put Jannetty in a downward spiral.

To answer some of the OP questions, yes, they should have won a title. But yes, they are also overrated because of how good HBK ended up becoming.

 

[HBsam31]

I agree with Mojorisin as well. The division was just to stacked at the time, and I understand why they didn't win the tag title. As a kid I never believed that they could beat Demolition anyway. They were a bit more believable against the Harts, but even still.

I don't think they were either overrated or underrated. I think they are remembered for exactly what they were. A very talented team that was doing some things that we hadn't seen yet at the time, and very entertaining to watch.

If they had came along a little later I think they would have been multi time tag champs, but they came in a day were every single person and team didn't get a chance to carry titles.

 

[sdelfin]

Mrmojorisin made a bunch of excellent points in his reply. On camera, the Rockers could have been champs under the right circumstances with it working, but perhaps they were never thought of as reliable enough to handle it. As was pointed out, The Rockers could be a draw without the belts due to their look, their style and their ability to have great matches with anyone. Though never tag champs, they did get the chance to shine against a big-name team in the Brain Busters, ultimately coming out on top as Blanchard and Anderson were on their way out.

As for why the WWF didn't do the 1990 broken-rope title change over, as was brought up earlier, the story I've heard was that the Anvil wasn't going to stick around, so they put the belts on the Rockers as a result. Neidhart decided to stay around a bit longer, so the title change was no longer necessary. Considering how strongly Power & Glory was booked up until that time, going over the Rockers convincingly, I always speculated they were being positioned as the team to take the belts from the Harts or the Rockers. Obviously, they changed plans when the Nasty Boys came in. Power & Glory's push then fell off a cliff.

I always liked the Rockers a lot. I was a kid, so the seemingly flashy style was appealing. For a while, Marty and Shawn were about the same level, and both could have been successful in singles. They both had a good look, though Shawn was definitely more marketable there. I always enjoyed their enhancement matches for TV. Their matches with the Brain Busters were tremendous. They had amazing house show matches all the time, which was basically their whose reason for existing in the WWE. I will never forget the 1991 Royal Rumble and that absolutely incredible opening match they had with the Orient Express. The Rockers had an amazing start to 1991, but with the LOD around, there was nothing for them to do.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Actually, Michaels sabotaged Jannetty's career by lying about him to Vince and getting him fired. That set off a chain reaction that put Jannetty in a downward spiral.

To answer some of the OP questions, yes, they should have won a title. But yes, they are also overrated because of how good HBK ended up becoming.

I've heard a lot of back and forth on that one, including an alleged fight that started between them that also somehow got Piper and Savage involved. There was a gap between their break-up where Michaels put Janetty thru the window and their actual feud in 1993 that was due to Janetty's arrest for drugs. Even if Michaels had set Janetty up to get in trouble with McMahon, that was the incident that put him off TV for nearly a year.

 

[closet_fan]

I never liked the Rockers much. When they were the "Midnight Rockers" in the AWA, they seemed like a cheap knock off of the NWA's Rock & Roll Express.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The Rockers were perhaps the unsung heroes of the WWF for a time, that is both of them... not Shawn as is so commonly written.

Why? As a team they could be put anywhere on the card from opening match to main eventing a B show, they could work with 90% of the roster in a top level match and they were offering the first real glimpse that you didn't need to be a roided monster to get over, ability (and looks) could do it just as well...

Their title win was down to Jim and his famous lawsuit for trouble on a plane. Vince was gonna fire him for not paying him back an advance for legal fees... when Neidhart agreed to start paying it back he was staying so the rope fiasco gave them an out to keep the belt on the Harts a little longer. I am guessing Jim never stumped up cos he was basically buried once the Hart's split.

Of the Rockers the misconception is that Shawn was the better of the two. He really wasn't back then, he was quite bland and clearly needed to work with the slightly more experienced workers to get the best out of him. Marty had more all round appeal and had Shawn not been a scumbag after Rumble 93, would have likely had a much better singles run. Sadly Shawn did bury him (and Curt Hennig told Vince as soon as Shawn let slip he'd lied) and that damage more than anything is responsible for Marty's downward spiral, he came back with a pure "Billy Martin" from Vince, restored to exactly where he was on the card and won the IC as originally planned. Sadly by then he'd spend 3 months drowning his sorrows and they didn't get back the same worker they fired or to put it another way... Shawn won... I've copped heat for saying this before but I stand by it, Shawn was in a big way responsible for Marty's issues, thus it was hypocritical of him to get involved in his "saving". Shawn perhaps became the worker he did as he had the chances that he and Jannetty would likely have shared had he not been canned in Jan 93 but it also led to him become the man who was so despised in the locker room by the time he lost his smile in 97, lost to Austin and 98 and lost his job by being sent home in 99.

However whatever happened, when the Rockers finally did get back together, it was Shawn who wanted it, and pushed for it to be more than a one off. Their match with La Resistance was brilliant and it was like Jannetty had a second lease... Something happened backstage to ruin it, again... but at least the team got back together once.

They'll be most remembered for their split...and it's still the best executed heel turn of all time in the WWF... you saw it coming but you didn't see THAT coming... the brutality of it, the blading involved and the cocky fixing of the jacket made Shawn Michaels...just as those two returns through the crowd made Jannetty for his fifteen minutes of success. If they were both in a Rumble they'd go straight for each other, they sold it beautifully and it made their eventual one match reunion the more special.

Many say DX should go in to the HOF, personally I'd like to see the Rockers go in first. Even if Demoliton won the tag titles more, the Rockers are the team I associate much with greatness in that era and it'd be a nice moment for Marty to get proper recognition for his part in the Shawn Michaels story.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

The Rockers are remembered as fondly as they should be. In regards to them never officially being tag team champions, remember they were in an era where title changes were few and far between, giving extra credibility to the belts (these days, it's more of a shock when someone leaves the WWE having NOT held a title of some description, sadly.)

They had some cracking exchanges in the epic all-tag team eliminator at Survivor Series 1988 (probably one of the top 5 elimination matches ever), and lit up every show they were on with their high flying offence. Indeed, it was a major disappointment when Shawn's knee injury meant their Summerslam 1990 match with Power & Glory was in effect reduced to a handicap match.

My favourite two Rockers matches came in 1991. First the match vs the Orient Express at the Royal Rumble. That card is one of my favourite ppvs, and the tag opener was the match of the night. Secondly, for those that haven't seen the UK tour card, 'Battle Royal at the Albert Hall', they opened that with a very good loss to the Nasty Boys.

All things come to an end, and Michaels took one of the greatest heel turns in history in throwing Jannetty through the Barber Shop window. I don't know why Vince reportedly hated their Royal Rumble '93 clash, I loved it - again a match of the night on ppv involving the Rockers. Such a shame it didn't culminate at the scheduled Wrestlemania IX title change - their rematch would have improved a widely hated 'Mania, and reinforced Michaels' later Mr Wrestlemania moniker, as his match v Tatanka is arguably his worst WM outing.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The issue with the match was Sherri, they had had a match down on the road for over a month that was gaining rave reviews without her involvement. Vince supposedly decided to add her on the day and it ruined the match. That and Janetty clearly popping his shoulder out mid match to the point where Heenen commented on it. Sure he got through it but those two things ruined it in Vince's eyes... he was supposed to see the launch of his next 2 stars... Shawn politicked his way out of it by blaming Jannetty and blatantly lying... he then did the same to avoid jobbing out to Tatanka at 9 by implying the Native American had an attitude and was getting it too fast. As Tatanka was one of the best iked guys on the roster at the time, most disbelieved but it convinced VKM enough to nix the change and go with the finish that kept his monster push alive. Once they got wise to Shawn's act though, he dropped it in short order and then was suspended for continuing to mess around. With the exception of that Jannetty loss, Shawn basically jibbed out of dropping a belt for years by either losing his smile, getting beat up by marines or simply fired.

It's hard to say what would have happened, but had Marty won at Mania as planned without the enforced layoff he would have been certainly higher up the card for a couple of years. You could argue he'd end up where Jeff Jarrett did.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

The issue with the match was Sherri, they had had a match down on the road for over a month that was gaining rave reviews without her involvement. Vince supposedly decided to add her on the day and it ruined the match. That and Janetty clearly popping his shoulder out mid match to the point where Heenen commented on it. Sure he got through it but those two things ruined it in Vince's eyes... he was supposed to see the launch of his next 2 stars... Shawn politicked his way out of it by blaming Jannetty and blatantly lying... he then did the same to avoid jobbing out to Tatanka at 9 by implying the Native American had an attitude and was getting it too fast. As Tatanka was one of the best iked guys on the roster at the time, most disbelieved but it convinced VKM enough to nix the change and go with the finish that kept his monster push alive. Once they got wise to Shawn's act though, he dropped it in short order and then was suspended for continuing to mess around. With the exception of that Jannetty loss, Shawn basically jibbed out of dropping a belt for years by either losing his smile, getting beat up by marines or simply fired.

It's hard to say what would have happened, but had Marty won at Mania as planned without the enforced layoff he would have been certainly higher up the card for a couple of years. You could argue he'd end up where Jeff Jarrett did.

I don't know if I can buy all this evil mastermind on a cosmic scale stuff with Michaels without some sort of cite from somewhere. It just seems like so much hearsay. There's not much doubt that Shawn was an ass when he came on the scene as a singles competitor, but the master manipulator stuff doesn't completely pass the smell test because it assumes complete idiocy on the part of VKM, and everyone else shutting up and letting Michaels have his way.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

It has been cited by a lot of guys over the years in shoots and heavily implied that Shawn and Vince were very close. Even in the days of the sheets before the IWC this stuff was out there and being talked obout... it doesn't imply idiocy... just indulging a particular person.

The facts were:- Sherri was not involved in the matches on the road, only at the PPV which was a last minute change, Marty was immediately released after the match then rehired in his same position (which Vince NEVER does if you've screwed up in any way), Tatanka didn't win the title at Mania, nor did Perfect at Summerslam and the title was only taken from him by "suspension" (in reality he was fired).

Whether you believe this or not, those facts lend themselves to the "hearsay", that Marty was unjustly fired, restored to his position but was damaged and Shawn then refused to job to Hennig at Summerslam 93 as "payback" for snitching, also ensuring the match was a letdown (it was one of Shawn's poorer matches, on purpose?)

Shawn did not drop his 2nd or 3rd IC titles, his three tag titles with Diesel and Austin, he did not job his 2nd World title either and "laid down" for his buddy Triple H for the Euro belt... This is a man who made a career post Rockers and pre 2002 out of not losing titles and doing all he could to avoid doing so Vince was indulging him at every turn. How close was it that he didn't job to Austin? Pretty close, except "hearsay" says that Taker and Austin made sure he went through with it...

 

[supernatural1981]

some excellent points made by everyone and some of the backstage stuff that i have read about Shawn at that time and up until his back injury/1st retirement leads credence to what THTRobtaylor is saying about Shawn being quite a tit back then.

would anyone go as far to say that at the time of the split Marty was maybe the better performer in ring or was Shawn always "THE MAN" ala Bret hart to Jim Neidhart??

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Without question Marty was better at the end of 91 than Shawn was and stayed that way through till his firing after the Rumble. He had more experience, a better rounded skill set and more of a "ring general" mindset than Shawn had at the time. If you look back at the Rocker's they rarely worked against teams their own ages or experience, they always worked with more experienced teams with heels who could help lead Shawn through the match. Shawn developed and his "titness" allowed him to do it, he protected his spot jealously and that meant he progressively began to take charge in matches but it's no secret that his first 2 years as a solo act was him working with more experienced guys... Tito, Martel, Davey, Bret, Marty, Hennig, The Harts again as a team and then Razor at Mania. All of those guys against him to that point were known as ring generals and able to build the match. To Shawn's credit he learned from them and if you disagree look at the one PPV match where he did face a fellow young talent... Mania 9... it didn't work, cos Shawn couldn't lead the match as the heel and seemed more intent on burying the competition than building them both.

Marty wouldn't have been as long term as Shawn, but he was a good mid-upper mid guy until it went wrong. He could have easily been a Tito Santana or Jim Duggan replacement. But that 3 month lay off killed it... 3 months of drowning your sorrows in god knows what, because you had legit been wronged is gonna damage anyone, physically and mentally. From reading about his family and stuff it might have been inevitable, but that perhaps makes it worse...cos Shawn would have known all that, and known what could happen...

Shawn Michaels the worker, became one of the best - as a man he'll always be lacking, whatever religion he now has. Marty was a great worker who fell low cos of demons bestowed on him by others and character flaws that let him down. If Jake could turn it around though, Marty certainly can - he was never THAT bad that he screwed up at work... he was just a mess out of it after 93...

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

Interesting information, thanks.

It did make sense from a storyline perspective to include Sensational Sherri in the Royal Rumble match, especially if the long-term plan was for Janetty to win the Intercontinental Title at Wrestlemania IX - one of the oldest clichès in wrestling is to have the heel champion win the initial battle 'unclean', and the face to reign triumphant when the dust settles. So I don't imagine Sherri's involvement was cited as 'taking away' from their Rumble match.

One thing about Jannetty - people have focused on his post-RR93 firing and issues, whether the fault of Michaels or otherwise. No one seems to have made reference to Jannetty missing 11 months in 1992. I understand he was let go in the build-up to Wrestlemania VIII (apparently WWE really wanted the Rockers to face off at a Wrestlemania, so they must have been popular with management at least) in part due to being arrested. Had that not occurred, perhaps Jannetty would have gone on to be the breakout star of 1992, though I truly believe that Shawn Michaels' ascension into greatness would have still taken place at pretty much the same rate, politicking douch or not.