They need more time?

[Dexter]

I have a question about something I've read quite a bit on these forums.

In reference to certain mid-carders (Swagger, Morrison and Bourne are a few examples), several people have commented that they "need more time" before they're "ready" for main event status. I'm curious as to what exactly this means.

Specifically, what is it that makes them unready right now, and for what are they using that time they need? Thanks in advance for the clarification, because this is a concept I don't understand. As far as I can tell, all any of them need (not just the examples I mentioned, but really any mid-carder that doesn't just obviously suck), is one good push and they're there. Why wouldn't that work?



BTW, this might be something that's more appropriate to the General Wrestling forum, but I chose to put it here because I haven't seen this statement applied to wrestlers from any other promotion. That was my logic, at least. I could be wrong.

 

[Southwind]

Well one example most people will go back to is Randy Orton's failed 2004 title run and subsequent face push. It put Orton back a couple of years and he only got back on track because of the money feud he and the Undertaker put on.

There's a risk to it no doubt if you push somebody to quickly it could bomb and the company would suffer hell even Stone Cold was only pushed out of necessity and it wasn't a choice. My main problem is the WWE is doing nothing more specifically on Raw to get these future main eventers ready to to just that and main event.

 

[Milkyway!]

I have a question about something I've read quite a bit on these forums.

I'm willing to answer to the fullest of my potential

In reference to certain mid-carders (Swagger, Morrison and Bourne are a few examples), several people have commented that they "need more time" before they're "ready" for main event status. I'm curious as to what exactly this means.

Well, it means exactly what it says. Some people can carry the ball when given it to them, like Stone Cold Steve Austin, others drop it, and that can set them back for years. Take Randy Orton for example, the guy was given the ball, he dropped it. He was hurt by such a thing. This has happened many times over the years in, Chris Jericho, Randy Orton, Chris Beniot, CM Punk, etc. Some people have what it takes, others don't.

Its better safe, than sorry. If you give a wrestler a year, two, maybe three of building, then they prove themselves worthy, and always have that foundation they can drop back to.

Specifically, what is it that makes them unready right now, and for what are they using that time they need? Thanks in advance for the clarification, because this is a concept I don't understand. As far as I can tell, all any of them need (not just the examples I mentioned, but really any mid-carder that doesn't just obviously suck), is one good push and they're there. Why wouldn't that work?

Read above.

BTW, this might be something that's more appropriate to the General Wrestling forum, but I chose to put it here because I haven't seen this statement applied to wrestlers from any other promotion. That was my logic, at least. I could be wrong.

I would also like to point out The Rock. A man that I believe genuinely loved the business for what it is. He drew to the moon and back. But he quit for the movie business, why? Because like he said, he has allready done all the things there is to do in the wrestling business. Hes beaten the best, hes put over the best, and hes one every major title. Theres nothing left for him in the Wrestling business, because he did it all WAY too fast. Had they let him develop, and get his foundation and loyalty for the business. The Rock could still be with us here in the business, today. But because he was shot to the moon, once he got back, there wasn't a mars for him to go to.

 

[Dexter]

So then, Milkyway, taking your example of The Rock (good example btw, that made sense... the same could possibly be said of Lesnar and Lashley), maybe it's us, the fans, that needs time as much as it is the wrestlers. I say that because, like you pointed out, The Rock got pushed to the moon, and quite frankly, I burned out on him pretty quickly.

In other words, maybe we need time to get used to them and let them grow on us slowly rather than have them crammed down our throats all at once. The Miz comes to mind, and not just because he's on tv as I'm typing this. I wasn't a fan at first but he's slowly growing on me to the point that I think I'm ready to see him pushed a little further.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

Essentially, the best way to promote a wrestler is to slowly but surely move them up the rankings... this goes for any business & any wrestler. Sure, you may have some wrestlers who have honed their craft well before heading into the mainstream audience... but they need experience in the area of charisma or mic skills or ring presence. In order to do so, a slow and steady push will win the race for the wrestlers.

If we push somebody off the get-go & shoot them up the rankings, the wrestler must be able to deal with all aspects of professional wrestling that go with climbing the ladder. Take Jack Swagger, he was pushed to the moon & in four months won the ECW title. Why? For a show full of midcard & lowcard talent, he had all the creditentals. When he was traded to RAW, he stayed within the midcard area. Why? He has not got what it takes to become one of the major players of a global company's "A" Show as he lacks the mic skills at the moment. So, by allowing more time for Swagger to develop in the midcard, he can hone his mic skills or substitute it for other aspects to cover his weakness.

Basically, when we say that a superstar isn't ready, there is one or more vital aspect(s) of being one of the top player's within the respected company that seems to be missing from their resume.

 

[Blade]

Ok, here it goes.

The transition of midcard to main event is a two fold thing.

First, midcarders aren't believable as champions because they don't have any big wins or they've never been made to look like a main eventer by another wrestler.
Examples: Lesnar beat Hogan before winning the title, Austin wrestled Bret Hart in a 5 star match and Edge beat Cena during his (I think) second reign.
If a wrestler is elevated to main event even though he's never beaten a big star in his career, people just won't buy it.

Then there's overness with the crowd. Over time, given the right push, wrestlers become more over, more accepted by the crowd. It can be either over a few years or it could be from one match or angle, but a wrestler must be very over to be in the main event. If a wrestler doesn't get pops from the crowd, then it's obvious no one cares about him. Therefore ratings would go down if he was in the main event.

So yeah, those are the 2 things that midcarders need before they can be in the main event. Hope that answers it for you.

 

[Nascarman]

Swagger and Morrison are ready now Bourne will not make it to ME leavel he will get old after a while. I was really pulling for Morrison Friday. Swagger is the next HHH!!

 

[BOSS Productions]

I get what your saying but pushing some so fast can be a bad thing look at Brock Lesnar he accomplished everything in WWE at the age of 26 the things Lesnar accomplished so fast is what people like Jeff Hardy had to work 9 years for and look what happened to Lesnar he left WWE because he wanted to pursue other things and you can not blame him he did everything he needed and wanted to do in WWE.Now lets say WWE does that to someone like MVP who knows how fast he will develop and go over as champ the faster he does this the faster he leaves WWE you know.

 

[crowbartotheface]

My theory on the subject is don't job future ME's. There is no reason the Miz should be losing to Cena. Put the kid over. He has Mic skills and his wrestling isn't bad either. But if you keep having him job to someone like Cena he's never going to get put over. You need to get that one clean win over a big name to catapult your career. You know what I take that back... The Miz doesn't need to win he just needs a convincing match or a decent rivalry. The key to a decent rivalry is back and forth action. Not one sided predictable bullshit.

There was a Raw is War back in the Attitude era where they were trying to put over Stone Cold and they had him go up against Taker... as a matter of fact its on the SC dvd come to think of it... He didn't win but he put up a beautiful struggle so much that on the commentary he said it was the most important match of his career. Thats why creative... i forget who the head was at the time... put him over. Within a year he had the title.

The new wrestlers do need to prove themselves I do agree with that. What I don't agree with is how creative is handling it. Don't make them pussycats without the cat who job on a nightly basis. Set them with something to work on so that they can build a career and make a name. No one makes a name by jobbing. And those who do never produce championships later down the line. Exception Mikey Whipwreck. But everyone loved Mikey. God I miss the old ECW.......



Just my two cents... not that it matters...
Heyman for Pres 2012

 

[BernacK6]

There needs to be a better progression of things with individual stars. Does anyone actually recall Austin and Rock's rise to fame? They started in the Intercontinental Title Bracket and developed a rivary against one another that carried to the next bracket. This is back when the belts weren't friggin props. Remember when holding the IC Title meant you were the next Superstar in line to make a run at the WWF Title? This is how these divisions need to be utilized. Kofi Kingston, while one of my favorite wrestlers, should be fighting for the US Title, not necessarily holding it, strictly because I would not consider him one of the next few in line for the WWE Title. These midcard titles need to be around the waists of established superstars so that when the next step is taken and these men are defeated, it is believeable then that the performer could ascend to the next bracket. Austin, Rock, Hart, HHH, etc. all held the IC Title and performed in some of their most classic matches while wrestling for/defending that title. This is why there doesn't seem to be a pecking order. Smackdown has it right with Mysterio holding the IC Title, because he is an established, former Heavyweight Champion. If you can't perform with Rey, you shouldn't be competing for the next title. When Rey drops the IC Title (should it be to an up and coming mid-carder), watch whomever wins it to skyrocket to the top.

 

[Dexter]

Thanks for the answers, guys. Essentially, what brought all this up was a blog I read and found somewhat interesting a few days ago (might have been Paul Heyman?). It was basically negative about the current state of affairs in TNA and WWE, and his ideas on how to fix the problem over the next 5 years.

I just found it confusing that it would take 5 years to fix the problem if you felt you'd identified it. If you know what's wrong, why not fix it now? But I guess, applying that to what you guys are saying, it takes time to build up your "future", so to speak. Assuming you do it right.

Makes sense. Thanks again for the enlightenment.

 

[Mustang Sally]

.... maybe it's us, the fans, that needs time as much as it is the wrestlers.

That's a good point, and you can add one more group that needs time......management. Unless a wrestler comes to WWE with a sterling reputation built with another company (example: Goldberg), the guys in charge want a newbie to pay his dues before allowing him to assume a top spot. I've felt that John Morrison had the look of a star when he first arrived, but the powers-that-be determined that he work his way up the ladder. To his credit, Morrison has been doing it.

By the way, when considering people who pay their dues, I'd like to point out one guy who did it the right way: Hunter Hearst Helmsley. For all the criticism I read of him on this board, the man took the hard road to the top...... getting squashed in 30 seconds by the Ultimate Warrior and engaging in unholy messes like the Arkansas Hog Pen match with Henry Godwinn. He took the rocky road to success and didn't have anything handed to him. I don't know exactly when he hooked up with Stephanie, but there's no disputing the body of work HHH put in before marrying the boss' daughter.
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