The worst ever heel turn at the greatest ever PPV

[Stone Cold Tea]

I want to talk to you about a heel turn. More specifically Austins heel turn at ‘Mania 17. Now a lot of wise heads in the business have gone on record as saying that there was no need to turn Austin heel as he was still white hot with the fans despite what Austin himself though. Heck even Austin himself has gone on record as saying that he wished that he had called an audible right there in the middle of the ring and stuck a Stunner on Vince.

Well the one of the reasons that I think Austins turn didn’t go down well from the start is that the way they did it just flat out sucked. In fact, it was plain fucking stupid. I’m sure all of you have seen ‘Mania but I’ll recap the turn for the threads sake.

We start off with arguably the biggest Main Event of all time in Austins home town where his road to recovery from neck surgery intertwined with the Road To WrestleMania. In Austins backyard he’s facing The Rock. Just before the start it’s announced the match is a No DQ. No raised eyebrows there it’s the Attitude Era right? Well about halfway through the match Vince comes down to ringside. When JR says what’s he doing out here Paul Heyman responds with ‘’It’s his company, he has a vested interest in the outcome of this match’’. Or something along those lines. Nothing unusual so far.


Now this is where it gets fucking stupid.
The Rock lays the Peoples Elbow onto Austin and looks to have him down for the 3 count. That is until Vince jumps in the ring and pulls The Rock off of Austin. Stupid. By doing that it looks like Vince is out there to help Austin. That isn’t going to make Austin look bad. He hasn’t done anything wrong.


So we get to the next part of this turn. Ausin holds The Rock up whilst Vince blasts him in the dome with a chair. The Vince hands Stone Cold a steel chair with which he proceeds to beat the absolute snot out of The Rock. Still though it’s a no DQ match Austin isn’t breaking any rules. Hell it looks like Vince wants Austin to be champ if hes here helping him win the title. Vince must have finally come to his senses after taking that coast to coast yeah?

Then the final part. Austin has a beer with Vince and shakes his hand. That’s when the penny drops if your watching this on t.v and can hear the commentary. Austins hometown fans wouldn’t boo him so it doesn’t matter to them.


What we ended up with was a heel turn that took damn near ten fucking minutes to execute where it wasn’t even clear what the hell was going on.
In my opinion you could have turned Austin heel around that timeframe. Not necessarily at ‘Mania. Maybe a month or so down the line. I have an idea for this which I will contribute to the thread later.

Now one of the reasons that the heel turn popped into Austins head was because he said ‘’something big always happens at ‘Mania’’. Well they had that something big. You’d just purchased WCW. Announce it at ‘Mania. Wait 6 days. Don’t like that idea? Okay then have some of the WCW superstars run interference at the end and take Austin and Rock out when the match is over.

Now that’s longer than I intended so if you read all that then thanks 

My questions for you guys are:
What was your opinion on the heel turn?
Why do you think it failed?
How would you have booked it?
If there really had to be a ‘Mania moment what would you have had it be?



Edit:Whoever changed hell to heel in the title. Thanks

 

[wrestler36]

I agree with you pretty much on everything. You didn't even have to go through the entire plot at the end of the match. It was a bad call from the get go. In retrospect, maybe Austin thought that he was going to be overshadowed by the Rock now, so turning bad would turn into a hot feud. Fact is, the crowd was still just as crazy about Austin still and didn't want to see him turn heel. Especially in Texas.

Honestly, I think a good Wrestlemania moment would have been for the Rock to win clean in the middle of the ring. When the PPV feed is about to cut out, you could just have a closeup of Austin in disgust. Then somewhere down the line when they are tagging together on Raw, Austin walks out on him. Or, Austin could do the exact same thing Bret Hart did after WM 13. Instead of accepting that he lost clean to the Rock, he starts a promo about how he's the toughest SOB, etc, etc, but since he's been gone recovering, his fans flocked to The Rock. Then he becomes bitter and starts playing the exact role Hart did in '97.

 

[StraightEdge]

One of the best heel turns I've seen. I might be biased since Houston is my hometown and I attended WM 17, but the way it was done was absolutely amazing. People tend to forget the part earlier at WM when he told Cole "you want shocking, i'll give you shocking". I was 10 at the time, but I was absolutely pissed when he turned heel. To make matters worse mostly everyone in the crowd who were older than me cheered when Austin won the title. Honestly, who expected Vince and Stone Cold to team up?

 

[Mustang Sally]

Heck even Austin himself has gone on record as saying that he wished that he had called an audible right there in the middle of the ring and stuck a Stunner on Vince.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that the (mercifully brief) heel turn during which Kurt Angle forced Austin to stand on a bridge....and Austin was 'crying' at Angle's threat to throw him over?

I love WWE, and through the years have understood most storylines they've brought us, even if I didn't agree with them...... but the sight of Stone Cold Steve Austin displaying craven cowardice made me feel embarrassed for the whole damn company.

'The worst heel turn?'

Yeah, I'll go along with that.

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

What was your opinion on the heel turn?
It was done almost at the right time. Stone Cold should have lost but then turned at the NEXT PPV. The timing was perfect but not in Stone Colds home town especially when he had come back from a massive surgery and a year off TV - the fans wanted a come back story and it should have ended nicely first before going the HEEL route. But SCSA needed a change after 3 years of being the top face in Wrestling.

Why do you think it failed? - simple: lack of build up, it was done in Stone Colds home town too. Storyline wise - it made no sense to have Austin suddenly join McMahon and shake his hand and have a beer together. Not at that moment.

How would you have booked it?
They should have had Austin lose the match and then be a big question over if Stone Cold is still the Toughest SOB in WWF at the time... making out everyone in WWF was second guessing stone colds spirit and fight. Eventually - when the fans are on the edge of wondering the same thing - BOOM. Heel turn.

If there really had to be a ‘Mania moment what would you have had it be? Goldberg running in and Spearing ROCK just after he had beaten SCSA and challenging him for a shot at the belt.

 

[Greg4WWE]

The Heel turn was fine, but Austins character during that heel run was awefull. He went to be a cheesy, cowardly, whining Heel. Just no.. no no no. No wonder this era of Austins is forgotten.

 

[StraightEdge]

The Heel turn was fine, but Austins character during that heel run was awefull. He went to be a cheesy, cowardly, whining Heel. Just no.. no no no. No wonder this era of Austins is forgotten.

I was going to mention that as well. The ruined it by making him act nice and stuff later on during the heel turn. Part of me wants to say they did it because HHH got hurt during their tag team title match vs Jericho and Benoit.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I agree that it probably was the worst heel turn in the history of the WWE. I mean WM 17 had been downright awesome from start to finish. IMO, there was absolutely no reason at all to turn SCSA heel at that point. It was in his hometown and he had just come back from being off of television for a lengthy period of time. I mean, if they were trying to give us a sense of shock and surprise, there were much better ways to do it besides turning SCSA heel. Especially since the Rock was getting ready to leave to start filming for The Mummy Returns. So why would they turn their top face heel when they were getting ready to lose their other top face?

It failed for a few reasons. Chief among them is the fact that it was SCSA. We sit here and we say that Austin was the top face in the company at that point in time and he was. Traditionally, however, his actions and his attitudes were more commonly seen from a heel instead of a face. So when Austin took a chair to the Rock and even accepted McMahon’s help, I think a lot of fans (including me) thought that that was just Austin willing to do anything to win the Title. I mean really; did he do anything up to that point that was out of character for SCSA? Another reason that it failed was because it was in his hometown. The fans just didn’t want to boo him and that goes for all of the fans not just his hometown. As I said, even though he was now a heel, he had always been doing heelish things. So he was still, in a lot of fans eyes, good ole SCSA. Also, it desperately could’ve used a buildup. I know that they were trying to surprise us but the whole thing came across like something they had just thought up a few moments before the match. They should’ve planted the seeds in fans heads leading up to WM 17 that Austin might be joining with McMahon and then I think that when the act finally took place, the fans would’ve been much more receptive to booing him.

I would’ve started building it up around the Royal Rumble. I would’ve had some type of scenario in the Rumble where McMahon inadvertently helped Austin win. Then throughout the next two months on the Road to Wrestlemania, I would’ve had small incidents happen where Vince and Austin could be seen talking backstage or Vince cuts a couple of promos and hints to the fact that he wants Austin to win without outright saying it; things like that. Then, like I said above, when the act finally did happen, the fans would’ve been much more prepared to boo Austin.

There had already been a Wrestlemania moment earlier in the night with Shane O Mac going coast to coast and with Linda McMahon standing up and kicking Vince in the balls. There didn’t need to be a huge moment in the Rock/Austin match because that match was big enough already. Just the image of the winner standing on the ropes and holding up the title would have been a big enough moment to end the show on.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

Austin's turn never really did anything or helped anybody for that matter..

It was shocking yeah, maybe one of the most shocking Wrestlemania moments. But it made zero fucking sense. Zero. He turned heel during the match. He aligned himself with Vince McMahon. Why did he do that? He didn't know if he was going to beat The Rock or not. The Rock should've won clean, then Austin would've gone Bret Hart on The Rock, by beating him down at Wrestlemania. Then he aligns himself with Vince at the next PPV, knowing that he can't beat The Rock. That would've made more sense.

Also, they start off with Shane and WCW and the faces, then they completely overturn the roles by having Shane and WCW as the heels and Vince and Austin as the faces. Then Austin turns on Vince and joins WCW? What the hell? Why did that happened?

Don't make me go down the road as to why Austin also joined forces with Triple H. Now that made huge sense. NOPE. Triple H, the guy who tried to end Austin's life just months ago.

Don't get me wrong. 2001 was the year with the best WWF TV. But the entire Invasion angle, from Wrestlemania to Survivor Series was a trainwreck. The only reason the TV was awesome, well, I guess it was only because the name value of the superstars involved.

From 1993 going forward, WWE always created one new top drawing name.
1993: Yokozuna
1994: Bret Hart
1995: HBK and Diesel
1996: HBK
1997: Austin
1998: Rock
1999: Triple H and Foley
2000: Angle
If you look at 2001, nobody reached the heights these past wrestlers reached. Yeah, you might argue Jericho, but what did Jericho do after becoming the Undisputed Champ? Nothing. 2001 was supposed to be Jericho and Angle's year, but for some reason, it was only Austin and The Rock. All the time. Along with the McMahons. 2001 was also the reason that when both Rock and Austin departed, nobody could replace them.

So back on topic. Really bad heel turn that resulted to nothing along side a really bad booked storyline.

Although everything about 2001 seems like a trainwreck, it was the best TV. Explain that to me.

 

[OYDK]

My questions for you guys are:
What was your opinion on the heel turn?

At the time I was just wondering what the heck was going on. Rock had Austin pinned about 3 times throughout the match only to have Vince interfere each time... still wondering what the hell was happening. Than Austin takes the chair and I'm still thinking, okkkk this is not what I think it is. When Austin shook Vince's hand, I wasn't that upset about it. I thought it was a good opportunity to shake things up at the time, and having him align with Vince was the best way to get the crowd to turn on him. But they didn't, which brings me to your second question.

Why do you think it failed?

The crowd didn't want to boo Stone Cold. That's the long and short of it. I thought Austin's heel run was some of the most entertaining stuff that's ever been produced, even if Austin was made to look like an ass at times. There was some REALLY good stuff between Austin and Angle. But the crowd wanted to cheer him. They wanted him to be the ass-kicker, take no prisoner person that won the war for WWE. Which is exemplified in the reaction to the Stunner party he had that one Raw.

How would you have booked it?

I have no clue, I probably would have booked the same scenario to be honest. Austin joining Vince and turning on The Rock at Mania was the best way to turn the crowd. BUT, the fact that Mania 17 was in Austin's hometown would have made it nearly impossible to get them to turn on him. Either way, I don't think it mattered how it was booked. If they didn't boo Austin after that, they weren't going to boo him for anything else.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I want to talk to you about a heel turn. More specifically Austins heel turn at ‘Mania 17. Now a lot of wise heads in the business have gone on record as saying that there was no need to turn Austin heel as he was still white hot with the fans despite what Austin himself though. Heck even Austin himself has gone on record as saying that he wished that he had called an audible right there in the middle of the ring and stuck a Stunner on Vince.

Well the one of the reasons that I think Austins turn didn’t go down well from the start is that the way they did it just flat out sucked. In fact, it was plain fucking stupid. I’m sure all of you have seen ‘Mania but I’ll recap the turn for the threads sake.

We start off with arguably the biggest Main Event of all time in Austins home town where his road to recovery from neck surgery intertwined with the Road To WrestleMania. In Austins backyard he’s facing The Rock. Just before the start it’s announced the match is a No DQ. No raised eyebrows there it’s the Attitude Era right? Well about halfway through the match Vince comes down to ringside. When JR says what’s he doing out here Paul Heyman responds with ‘’It’s his company, he has a vested interest in the outcome of this match’’. Or something along those lines. Nothing unusual so far.


Now this is where it gets fucking stupid.
The Rock lays the Peoples Elbow onto Austin and looks to have him down for the 3 count. That is until Vince jumps in the ring and pulls The Rock off of Austin. Stupid. By doing that it looks like Vince is out there to help Austin. That isn’t going to make Austin look bad. He hasn’t done anything wrong.


So we get to the next part of this turn. Ausin holds The Rock up whilst Vince blasts him in the dome with a chair. The Vince hands Stone Cold a steel chair with which he proceeds to beat the absolute snot out of The Rock. Still though it’s a no DQ match Austin isn’t breaking any rules. Hell it looks like Vince wants Austin to be champ if hes here helping him win the title. Vince must have finally come to his senses after taking that coast to coast yeah?

Then the final part. Austin has a beer with Vince and shakes his hand. That’s when the penny drops if your watching this on t.v and can hear the commentary. Austins hometown fans wouldn’t boo him so it doesn’t matter to them.


What we ended up with was a heel turn that took damn near ten fucking minutes to execute where it wasn’t even clear what the hell was going on.
In my opinion you could have turned Austin heel around that timeframe. Not necessarily at ‘Mania. Maybe a month or so down the line. I have an idea for this which I will contribute to the thread later.

Now one of the reasons that the heel turn popped into Austins head was because he said ‘’something big always happens at ‘Mania’’. Well they had that something big. You’d just purchased WCW. Announce it at ‘Mania. Wait 6 days. Don’t like that idea? Okay then have some of the WCW superstars run interference at the end and take Austin and Rock out when the match is over.

Now that’s longer than I intended so if you read all that then thanks 

My questions for you guys are:
What was your opinion on the heel turn?
Why do you think it failed?
How would you have booked it?
If there really had to be a ‘Mania moment what would you have had it be?



Edit:Whoever changed hell to heel in the title. Thanks

I thought that Austin was ripe to turn heel. His face run was the same thing every week, and had got boring.

But if it were to happen, it had to be big. The two biggest heel turns of all time I can think of was Hogan at Halloween Havoc '96 and Andre on Piper's Pit. When these heel turns happen, it had to be a big deal.

To make the heel turn have impact, Austin had to do it on the biggest stage against an opponent that people care about. Well, WMX7 is the biggest stage and the Rock was the only opponent which people would care enough about to feel upset that Austin had done this to.

So when they had Austin v Rock at WMX7, I knew what was coming.

Austin's heel turn was some of his best work. He added a new dimension to his character, and I enjoyed watching him because it was fresh, and he didn't wheel off the same catchphrases over and over.

In fact, I heard that Austin was upset when he was turned face again, and felt that he had gone back face for no storyline reason. Austin left on one of his famous walkouts a couple of months later. Maybe this was one reason for it.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Austin's heel turn was brilliant, and was 100% needed. The reason it failed is because WWE chickened out and gave up on it almost immediately, quickly turning him face again. Everything about the heel turn worked - the new music, the new attitude, the alliance with Vince. Once Triple H got hurt and was replaced by Kurt Angle, it was done. It became about comedy and Austin was immediately a face again. Turning Austin heel was genius...turning him face again ruined a potentially amazing time in WWE.

 

[The Brain]

First of all, I was in the Astrodome for WM17. That night I wasn't really 100% sure what was going on. I guess I was 99% sure what was going on but I didn't want to face the truth that Stone Cold Steve Austin had turned heel. It didn't take me long to appreciate the story behind the heel turn.

[YOUTUBE]Ujx4bhIi1Bg[/YOUTUBE]

Go to 3:31. "I need to beat you Rock. I need it more than anything you can ever imagine." There was no reason to think it during the interview but looking back Austin was planting the seed. He was desperate. He was insecure. He was back after a taking a year off with a serious neck injury. He sat at home and watched the WWF become even more popular without him even though he played the biggest role in saving the WWF just a few years earlier. Austin may have saved the company but now Rock was becoming even more popular in Austin's absence. Did Austin still have it? Could he come back and still be the top guy? He wasn't so sure so desperate men do desperate things. Desperate and unthinkable things. That's why Austin aligned himself with Vince McMahon. And it especially hurt because we still believed in Stone Cold Steve Austin even if he didn't believe in himself.

The turn itself could have worked better if done just a little differently. The fans simply refused to boo Austin that night. Even though it was pretty obvious Austin was working with Vince they needed to make it even more obvious. The way it looked you could draw the conclusion that Vince was trying to make Rock lose rather than make Austin win and Austin was just the lucky beneficiary of Vince's antics. Austin and Vince should have stomped Rock together, not just Vince handing Austin the chair. They needed to have a crystal clear alliance before the match ended. Sharing a hug before sharing a beer would have helped too. Really drive it home that Austin had sold out. The reason the turn didn't work as well is because the fans just wouldn't stop cheering for Austin. That match should have just kept going until the fans finally got the idea.

 

[Headman]

I really liked his heel theme music so I guess something good came out of it. Other than that, I thought the turn made no sense. He just up and sided with his enemy of three years for no good reason what so ever. Then his entire personality changed and he became a total coward. If they wanted to make him a heel they should have went a more organic route. They could have had him no show a couple shows and "leak" it to the dirt sheets that Austin no showing was a shoot. Get people thinking he's pulling an Ultimate Warrior type deal and they'll turn against him just like they've done every big star who's shown the slightest bit of "disloyalty" to the wrestling business. Either way, having him beat the Rock with a chair and then shake hands with Mcmahon was just stupid.

 

[kingtrojan]

It really should have been the Rock who turned and joined Vince to finallly beat the man he never could on his own as that would have made perfect sense to bad he was leaving to film a movie

 

[relentless1]

keeping with real life a la Rock going to Hollywood and HHH blowing his quad, id put Angle into the main spot against Austin until Rock got back and id team the Brothers of Destruction with Austin to form a powerful faction with Vince, have them run roughshod over the WWF until he faces Rock at WM 18 where Rock wins the belt back, hold off the WCW stuff until after WM 18 when, after a year of Austin and his crew against Rock and whatever allies he can come up with they both have to join forces against the greater threat: the REAL WCW which, by that time would be Flair, nWo, Booker, DDP, Kanyon, Lance Storm, Hugh Morris, the Natural Born Thrillers, Curt Hennig, Buff Bagwell, Kronik and turncoats Gurerro, Benoit, Jericho and Big Show with Bischoff, Goldberg, Mysterio and Big Poppa Pump well on their way.

 

[TML3:16]

Go to 3:31. "I need to beat you Rock. I need it more than anything you can ever imagine." There was no reason to think it during the interview but looking back Austin was planting the seed. He was desperate. He was insecure. He was back after a taking a year off with a serious neck injury. He sat at home and watched the WWF become even more popular without him even though he played the biggest role in saving the WWF just a few years earlier.

I agree with that line planting the seed. Also, he lost to HHH the month before in the 2 out of 3 falls match. I know they beat each other to death and HHH just fell on him, but I've always thought that might have been a subtle thing too. It probably isn't, just a thought I've always had.

For me he should have never have gone heel. He coulda done the stun McMahon thing and then roll on with a similar angle to what was happening at the end of 99 with HHH going after him again and even more so after the hit and run story. HHH beat him in Feb so he deserves a title shot or something. Vince getting on HHH's side because Austin screwed him again. Something like that. I think they coulda made a more logical story out of it than what they did. I could never buy into him teaming with the guy that had him ran down. Heel or face. And maybe doing something like that could have fixed the crap they did before with Rikishi being the driver and all that. That was done so badly in my eyes.