The War on Stupidity: National and Ethnic Pride

[Xemmy]

I think it's ok to be happy with your country, but should you really be proud of it? There are lots of Americans that are proud of their country. Too many to get to my point.

So many people walk around each and every day claiming that they are "Proud to Be An American". While we're at it, there are pins that say "Proud to be Irish, German, African-American, (insert ethnicity here)".

Pride is something that should be reserved for things that YOU have done, and things that YOU have accomplished. Being American isn't a skill. It's an accident of birth. You wouldn't be proud to be to have a predisposition for diabetes.

And yes when you're an adult it becomes a choice for some, but once again- the choice of staying or going somewhere isn't an accomplishment either.

Spoiler

Pride–noun
1. a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
2. the state or feeling of being proud.
3. a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem.

Proud –adjective
1. feeling pleasure or satisfaction over something regarded as highly honorable or creditable to oneself (often followed by of, an infinitive, or a clause).
2. having, proceeding from, or showing a high opinion of one's own dignity, importance, or superiority.
3. having or showing self-respect or self-esteem.

Loving your country, or being happy with your race is fine, but it's completely stupid to be "proud" of your country or race.

Thoughts? Retorts?.....Threats?

 

[Calderownz]

Being proud of ANYTHING that isn't an accomplishment of some sort is completely idiotic.

Pride involves having done something. Having got something done. Nationality or ethnicity having nothing to do with what you've been able to do.

You used the concept of an adult being able to move out of a particular country. Valid point. Then, you can be proud of yourself. But not because you were an American citizen and now you're a Canadian citizen, for example. But because, you made a choice for yourself. You took steps in doing something that you'd hope would better your life. You were courageous enough to take a giant leap. Most wouldn't.

You also earned/saved enough money to be able to do something like that. You can be proud of that as well.

Simply being proud to be from anywhere, however, is idiotic.

Ethnicity is a bit trickier, but the same principals still fall into place. You were born with the genetic break down that you have by virtual accident.

If you're father would have carried you and delivered you into a woman with a different ethnic background, then you'd be entirely different in terms of your ethnicity. It's an accident.

You can be proud of yourself for knowing where you come from. Some of the things you hope to better the environments for people with similar backgrounds, even. But simply being Asian or African or European is ridiculous.

I'm an American born, Mexican, with German. I'm happy with it all. Wouldn't really care to be anything else, to be truthful. Not because any of that is better than anything else out there, but because I love and enjoy my life. But, I'm not proud because I did nothing to have this situation.

Spending money shouldn't make you proud. Working your ass off to earn that money to spend on whatever you want is what you're proud of.

 

[#hamler]

You know what, I actually agree with you there Xemnas. I was born here by sheer coincidence, so I think it's pretty stupid to be proud of something that I had absolutely no control over. I'd rather be proud of something that I actually achieved in my life, rather than some political boundary defined by someone else generations ago, just because I happened to be born in a certain place by coincidence. However, I am happy with my country. My country and ethnic background identify who I am, it gives me an identity in society and I'm damn sure happy with that. I'm happy and thankful with what my country has done for me. I still believe in the beliefs that my country was founded upon-- you know Freedom, Justice, Equality, and the belief that a man can make himself in any image and still be treated as equal. Yes, I'm happy with that...not proud.

 

[Tequila Dave]

I have no control over people who share my nationality/ethnicity and though their actions/decisions may influence me, they are not my actions/decisions. I am an individual. I remember a previous thread you created where you questioned being ashamed of your country, to which i responded "the only person I really have a right to be ashamed of or proud of is myself. I can’t dictate other people’s morals." Just like morals, I have no say in what other people or my country does.

However, at the same time, there's something inside of me that rejects my own reasoning and makes me feel proud of my nation every now and again. Here are two questions for you:

1) If you aren't already, pretend you're a 'soccer' or football fan and your country's team wins the World Cup. If you can't relate to this, picture your favourite American football team winning the Superbowl. How would you feel? Proud? Or in that situation, is is it stupid to be proud as you never played on the team or lifted the trophey? Or what if you were actually on the team, but you spent the entire season on the bench? Would it be stupid to feel proud?

2) Imagine your family member accomplishes something groundbreaking; would you feel proud of/for them? Would you feel proud to be their family member? If you found out your father was a great hero, would you be proud? You never achieved what they did, so does that mean it's stupid to feel pride in those situations?

3) Would you vote for someone to be the President of your country if they weren't proud of that country?

4) Ask someone in Egypt if they're proud to be Egyptian right now. When they say yes with a huge smile on their face, would you think they're stupid?

While nationalistic pride can often come across as obnoxious 1) it's not a controllable emotion and 2) America, and the world, would be a very different place without it. I'll go into these in more detail now:

1) You can't choose to be proud, so how can you brand someone who takes pride in their country's actions 'stupid.' Is someone who falls in love with a bitch stupid? I don't think so. While ultra-proud nationalists can certainly be annoying, it's unfair to call them stupid, it's not like they can wake up one day and say "hey, I'm not really proud to be an American anymore." Pride is a natural emotion, and the fact that individuals can feel proud to belong to a certain nationality means that is also natural, thus, not stupid.

2) Imagine a world without nationalsim. I've found myself interested in World War II recently, and learning about America during the course of the war has fascinated me. Everyone bound together with an undeniable sense of pride in their country, and what America achieved as a result was nothing short of amazing.

Takins this into account, I don't think it's stupid to be proud of your country/ethnicity, even though it's illogical.

 

[Xemmy]

[QUOTE="Stone Cold" John Hogan;2841602]
However, at the same time, there's something inside of me that rejects my own reasoning and makes me feel proud of my nation every now and again. Here are two questions for you:[/QUOTE]...

1) If you aren't already, pretend you're a 'soccer' or football fan and your country's team wins the World Cup. If you can't relate to this, picture your favourite American football team winning the Superbowl. How would you feel? Proud? Or in that situation, is is it stupid to be proud as you never played on the team or lifted the trophey? Or what if you were actually on the team, but you spent the entire season on the bench? Would it be stupid to feel proud?

I say this with complete truth- The only time I've been proud of a sports team is when I was a player. And I don't watch sports other than "sports entertainment"- and as much as I am an Undertaker fan, I am not proud of him for retaining the streak every year, even though I love it when he does. I first started on the bench my first year of basketball, and went a couple of games without playing, and I wasn't proud at all when we won. I was mortified that I didn't get an opportunity. If your team won a trophy and you participated at least a little bit in getting that trophy, then by all means be proud- otherwise it's stupid.

2) Imagine your family member accomplishes something groundbreaking; would you feel proud of/for them? Would you feel proud to be their family member? If you found out your father was a great hero, would you be proud? You never achieved what they did, so does that mean it's stupid to feel pride in those situations?

No. Of course I can't say for certain because I've never had much of a family to be proud of. Sons and Daughter shouldn't be proud of their parents or ancestors- accident of birth. Mothers and Fathers on the other hand, can take a little pride in their children's accomplishments as unfair as it sounds- because without them, the child would never have made it.

3) Would you vote for someone to be the President of your country if they weren't proud of that country?

Absolutely.

4) Ask someone in Egypt if they're proud to be Egyptian right now. When they say yes with a huge smile on their face, would you think they're stupid?

If they took no part in this little revolution that they've had? Yes.

While nationalistic pride can often come across as obnoxious 1) it's not a controllable emotion and 2) America, and the world, would be a very different place without it. I'll go into these in more detail now:

Not just obnoxious, but stupid. ^_^
Yes, the world would be different.

1) You can't choose to be proud, so how can you brand someone who takes pride in their country's actions 'stupid.' Is someone who falls in love with a bitch stupid? I don't think so. While ultra-proud nationalists can certainly be annoying, it's unfair to call them stupid, it's not like they can wake up one day and say "hey, I'm not really proud to be an American anymore." Pride is a natural emotion, and the fact that individuals can feel proud to belong to a certain nationality means that is also natural, thus, not stupid.

You're right, you can't choose. Mainly because you can't technically be proud of your country. Pride is self praise. You can feel proud to live IN a country, but you can't be proud of the country. Otherwise it's a different defintion. The former is impossible, the latter is stupid. Remember that I'm attacking a common phrase here, "I'm Proud to Be An American!"
Oh, and yes, I would go so far as to say that falling in love with a bitch makes you stupid. Because if you're too stupid to see that she's a bitch then....well, you're stupid aren't you? ^_^ But that's neither here, nor there.

2) Imagine a world without nationalsim. I've found myself interested in World War II recently, and learning about America during the course of the war has fascinated me. Everyone bound together with an undeniable sense of pride in their country, and what America achieved as a result was nothing short of amazing.

Without Nationalism, WWII wouldn't have taken place. A world without Nationalism is already starting to sound like a good place. See, it turns out that the Nazis had a lot of pride.

Takins this into account, I don't think it's stupid to be proud of your country/ethnicity, even though it's illogical.

Being illogical and being stupid are too very equate things. I could interchange the words in my series "The War On Stupidity", but "The War On Illogicality" doesn't have the same flare.

 

[The Big Gunnzbowski]

I think the basic point being made here, simply put, is that people use the word pride without truly knowing its meaning. I really don't know how else to say it

 

[Xemmy]

[QUOTE="The Living Legend" Johnny Gunnz;2865322]I think the basic point being made here, simply put, is that people use the word pride without truly knowing its meaning. I really don't know how else to say it[/QUOTE]

It's not just a misunderstanding of the meaning of the word. People actually try and take pride in things they don't accomplish.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

I agree. Unless it's done completely for fun, like being proud of your city's sports team, or something to that effect, being proud of something you didn't personally accomplish yourself is silly.

It's like when people fight over the internet about what country is superior, and then bring up technology that was invented before they were born. It's pretty silly.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Being American isn't a skill. It's an accident of birth.

Very good point, and I think it stems from the notion that patriotism is a very "in" thing these days. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but I submit that we don't really understand what we're so proud of....we only know we love America. As to foreign countries, we often dismiss their claims of loving their country as "nationalism" and suspect that loving their country has more to do with hating other countries.....and we're not far off in thinking that.

But we often don't understand what we're so proud of. After 9-11, I was talking to a guy who said his neighbor was the biggest patriot ever. I asked him how he knew that. He looked exasperated at me, and explained that the guy had the largest American flag he'd ever seen hung outside his house.

Naturally! The guy with the largest flag is the one who loves his country the most; that was his logic.

In talking to many other folks about their love for our country, you come to realize that they love the American flag. No, they aren't referring to the freedoms and liberties that the flag represents.....they're talking about their love for the piece of cloth itself.

Sure, be proud of your country, but at least know what's behind that pride.