The State of the Art of Wrestling

[mont3818]

I hate to sound just another complainer but I thought it was just worth bringing up in conversation.
Doesn't it seem like wrestling use to be more genuine? These days -- and maybe its just because I'm growing up-- a wrestling match just seems pretty routine. I think you only get MAYBE a handfull of good matches a year. I thought with the Iron Man Match Orton and Cena were in would make it seem more old school and actually give them enough time to pull off an authentic wrestling match. Instead it was just a spot-fest with a few gags throughout.
Bret and Owen use to put on great matches all the time WM10, SS '94, and even a random match for a new show WWE was going (Zone), they won't out and told a great story (had the best cage match ever) without ever resorting to any gimmick stipulations, now Orton and Cena have had a zillion matches and a good match between the two are few and far between. Maybe its just lost the magic for me?
I miss guys like Benoit and Angle. I know guys we have their now can pull off good matches (HBK, Regal, Benjamin) but its more just a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am type thing these days no really good scientific chain wrestling. Even Cena and Orton can have good matches I'm sure, I've seen them.
Now that I mentioned Benoit I just wanna say, its a damn shame what he did. He actually ruined wrestling. I think its because of him the WWE decided to go PG to look less violent and more kid friendly. But thats not the real problem you can still have great matches and be PG. But they just cater to kids and merchandise. Wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am. I think TNA is trying to capitalize on this, there guys are, for the most are, hungry. AJ is amazing.

Have wrestling matches become routine and novelty or it is just me? Am I just growing out of it, seeing it less entertaining? I think I know too much about the business so it took some of the magic away for me.

 

[Blade]

Hmm, wow, how to reply to this post....

Wrestling is evolving. We no longer have the attention span we once had as an audience. We just can't watch half an hour of technical, chain wrestling, submission exchanging wrestling matches anymore. The crowd won't accept them anymore. And, in fairness, they have a point.

I think that kind of wrestling was great when everyone believed that wrestling was real, with the thought that a wrestler could tap out at any moment from any submission. We wrestling is different now, we need a structure, there's certain things a crowd needs to get from a match.

If you think the in-ring product is what's only supposed to matter, then you don't get pro wrestling. The technical aspect is the only important thing in amateur wrestling. The "Art" or pro wrestling involves many things. The in-ring work, the promos, the building of angles, the psychology, the building of new stars.... Sure, Orton and Cena aren't gonna go out there and put on a wrestling clinic. But they're some of the best ever at making stars. Orton has made Kofi look amazing lately. And Cena made a credible main eventer out of Edge. Just because they're not good at the in-ring aspect doesn't mean they're not good at what they do.

And to be honest, I really don't know what you're complaining about because WWE's current batch of midcarders are some of the best ever for in-ring work. There's some amazing talent in there; CM Punk, Morrison, Kofi, Miz, Ziggler, Swagger. They all have alot of talent and consistantly put on great matches and promos. So I really don't know what you're complaining about. If you want the technical wrestling, go watch ROH. WWE is for people that want a well-rounded wrestling show.

 

[JGlass]

I don't know if I can get behind what you're saying at all to be honest.

What is this "art of wrestling" you're talking apart? To be quite honest, I've seen a lot of wresting matches spanning a wide number of years, and it never really seemed to be "genuine" in the sense that it looked authentic or unique.

Let's look at some aspects of a Hulk Hogan match.

1) The Hulkster starts things off strong. He hits some punches, some chops, some clotheslines, and maybe some drops.

2) His opponent starts turning it around, usually by cheating. Maybe he hits a low blow on Hogan, who, like any man, falls to the ground to be stomped on by his opponent, who after the beating Hulk laid down, is ok enough to stomp out his massive opponent.

3) After being stomped on, hit, and otherwise beaten for about, two or three minutes, Hulk looks angrily at his opponent, who punches him in the face. Hulk just looks angrier, and his opponent again hits him in the face. Hulk continues to Hulk Up and get punched in the face, until he is fully revitalized, and once again, the tide of the match turns.

4) The Hulk stands up, points at his opponent's face, and everyone knows what's coming next. Hogan blocks a punch, and then delivers three of his own, sending his opponent to the ropes. He then throws his opponent off the ropes and delivers a big boot to the face. Finally, his opponent, who was on top of his shit a second ago, lies helplessly on the ground as Hulk's giant leg drops across his throat, and gets pinned.

Now, I'm sure hoping that by "genuine", you don't mean realistic, because this situation certainly is not realistic.

Now if by genuine, you mean more original, and unique, you'd be more on the right track. But I wouldn't say that it's anyone's fault, certainly not the fault of wrestlers, fans, or anyone else involved in a wrestling show. It's simply the fact you've seen it all before. Like you said, there are some things that still excite you, and there's a handful of great matches every year. Unfortunately, you've been around the block a couple times, and you've seen too many winters to get as excited as you used to when you were a kid.

 

[boozinjedi]

The "art" of wrestling has gone away somewhat,

the last I saw the WWE put on a main event match that I would call a true "scientific chain style" wrestling match was way back at SummerSlam '04.
Orton vs. Benoit,to the fan of such a match...It was a great back and forth battle!!

I still think that they could do such a match now with some of the mid-carders,IF they let it.I think Morrison & Ziggler could have such a match.

My jaw drops at the tapes/discs I have of the Malenko/Guerrero matches from the old ECW,those were some of the best matches I have ever seen.

I even think that they put one of those ECW TV title matches onto Eddie's DVD recently,I might be wrong.

 

[darkserenade]

WWE has become a show. Thats it!. TNA is stepping past that a little. TNA has become a show as well, but i must say they have more wrestling. But, TNA really needs to step it up, Angle vs Wolfe was one of the best matches to come out of wreslting in a long time. WWE is just about making money now. I haven't watched a full WWE program in a long time. Everything they have going is just wrong. They need a uprising of the young talent to band together and kick the crap out of the main eventers..

Like for example what the nWo did. But that was with old guys. Do it with new guys and do it well. Orton's little group was kinda alright. It needs to get like that or something. Something big that will shock the fans.

Back in the 80's you had fights, in the 90's good fights as well. All the shows are now is 30minute interviews and promo's. You don't get that as much with TNA. I am sure it's to come though.. All the main eventers now in WWE you know what moves they are going to do before they even do them. Its the way WWE always has trained their guys.. Bret Heart, you always knew what he would do. Elbow of the 2nd rope holds during the match followed by the sharp shooter. Undertaker, pounches in the corner, walk the top ropes, boots to the face maybe a sidewalk slame or two, then tombstone. HBK flying punch, elbow drop followed by a pin he never gets, then that leads into the super kick, the odd high risk move. Hogan we all know how he is.. savage same thing pounches few clotheslines elbow.. See WWE set a wrestler in motion and thats it that's all they do.. Nash as well, knees in the corner, elbows in the corner sidewalk slams a boot and powerbomb.

Everyone WWE trains always hashes out the same moves in every match. Blah blah blah... TNA on the other hand you never really know what they are going to do.. Yes everyone has their main move sets, but with TNA they also go above that and do other moves all the time it's more fun to watch. With TNA i don't feel like i am watching the same match i wached 10 years ago.. It's always something new..

A lot of people now ok maybe wreslting is new to them and they were just little kids 10 years ago.. But a lot of us have been watching since 80's some even the 70's.. If you do not like what WWE is doing just simply don't watch it.. WWE is to blame, not the wreslters. Every wrestler in the locker room aside from the maineverters would love to get a kickass 30 minute match. But WWE won't let them. WWE is holding all this talent back because they think it's best for the fans.. Well as a fan i want to see the younger guys pushed up in the ranks.

You spoke of Malenko. He is my fav wreslter.. Sure he was stiff and cold.. but that's fine he went in there to wreslte and that he did.. I loved all his matches. And he also knew when to walk away. He will always be the best in my eyes..

Blade spoke of "attention span" Well the people now adays don't have that.. Us older fans we do have the attention span. But we want to see fights. We don't want to see people speaking on the mic. Look at the old days Saturday night mainevent. You at talking really fast at the start, then the show opened, then a short 2 minute interview of the good guy and the bad guy, then fight for 30 minutes.. that was a show! short to the point interviews..

haha ok i'm done i'll shut up now.. let everyone bash me it's what everyone is good at around here haha..

 

[theviolentmessiah]

I think this happened to me several years back with the WWE, I'm still fairly young but WWE's formulaic gimmick filled sports entertainment soon got dull and predictable, the matches spew out typical spots and promos with typical catchphrases. I don't think the art of wrestling is dying though, I think it's just harder to find, ROH, NOAH, NJPW occasionally PWG still keep me on my toes with exciting matches with unpredictable finishes and great promo work. The main American companies focus on easy crowd pleasing and I still enjoy watching it but its wrestling bubblegum. I think WWE has started the bring itself back this year, 2009 seems to be a better year for the quality of matches in WWE, but I'd still say ROH puts on several great matches on every single show.