The Sports Guy vs. The Hitman

[The Butcher]

In Bill Simmons' latest mailbag (link below) he answered a request for an explanation to why he was "never a fan of" WWE Hall of Famer Bret Hart. Here is that explanation in its entirety:

Let's see … no personality, no sense of humor, wet hair, horrible entrance music, hideous wrestling outfit (pink and black?), never tweaked his gimmick, didn't get along with Shawn Michaels, "carried" the WWE during its most boring stretch of the past 40 years, sold out for WCW money, remains memorable only because of (a) the Montreal Screwjob (and the fact that he punched Vince McMahon afterward), and (b) his phenomenal Ewing Theory credentials (the WWE took off again right after he left). Just thought he was overrated.

Quick tangent: In our aforementioned podcast last week, Wesley Morris mentioned his "market corrections" theory and how, sometimes, there can be only one "type" of successful lane for one actor (only with multiple actors vying for it). An example he liked: Mark Harmon never making it as a leading movie actor because Kevin Costner took all of those marquee roles that could have gone to Harmon from 1988 through 1995. Costner was Harmon's market-correction guy, the guy blocking Harmon from having a Costner-like career.

Same for Tom Hanks and Michael Keaton — they battled for seven years for "funny/likable comic actor who dabbles in serious roles and will eventually become an A-lister" supremacy, with Keaton gaining an early A-list upper hand in 1989 thanks to the Batman movies. What happened to Hanks? Total tailspin! That was his Joe Versus the Volcano/Bonfire of the Vanities stretch — three years of forgettable movies. When Hanks rallied back in 1992 with A League of Their Own, then Sleepless in Seattle, Philadelphia (Oscar) and Forrest Gump (Oscar), what happened to Keaton? TAILSPIN! As Wesley says, there could be only one.

Back to Bret Hart: His market-correction guy was "Mr. Perfect," Curt Hennig, another technically terrific wrestler who hit the WWE in the mid-1980s. I always loved the arrogant "Mr. Perfect" gimmick and thought Hennig was more interesting and entertaining than Hart, but Hart's extended wrestling family (brother Owen, brothers-in-law Jim Neidhart and British Bulldog) morphed into the Hart Foundation family, which stole good spots in every pay-per-view. With the Hitman leading the way, of course. So Hennig ended up being the Keaton to Hitman's Hanks — he never won the WWE title and eventually jumped to WCW. So not only did Bret Hart semi-bore the hell out of us in dozens of pay-per-views, he drove away his more entertaining market-correction guy. I don't hate him for it. Just can't call myself a Hitman fan. Wait, did we just spend four paragraphs on this?

Anybody want to rebut The Sports Guy or do you mostly agree with his assessment?

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9594200/the-summer-no-mailbag

Personally, I was a Bret Hart fan. I always enjoyed his matches, and I was a mark for the Hart Foundation tag team. His heel work at the dawn of the Attitude Era was excellent, in particular his match with Steve Austin at WrestleMania XIII which was a seminal moment for both men and the era as a whole. Simmons is more than entitled to his opinion, and I agree that Curt Hennig was the better overall performer. I like his "market correction" take on it, although on the whole, despite his four paragraphs, it's a pretty glib take on Bret, his impact on Mr. Perfect, and everything going in wrestling/WWF during those years.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

The acting comparison doesn't hold much water with me, but that's maybe because I've never much cared for Keaton and have no idea who Mark Harmon is.

As for the rest, "he didn't get along with Shawn Michaels" comes across as a weak reason to not like someone, but I could understand a couple of his other reasons.

 

[Nate DaMac]

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I love me some Bill Simmons, but makes a total ass of himself the majority of the time he discusses wrestling. There is no point in trying to argue anything with him because he doesn't understand the game beyond the basis of your average adult aged mark.

 

[klunderbunker]

Cowboy Bret Hart (yes that's a real thing)
Member of the Hart Foundation stable
Member of the Hart Foundation tag team (as a face)
Excellence of Execution
Most fighting WWF Champion ever
Dude that would drag good matches out of ANYONE
Bret Hart: Toilet Mouth Rager
Bret Hart: SUPER CANADIAN!

There are 8 stages of his career in about 12 years. I'd say some of those count as gimmick changes. I'm so sick I can't see straight and that took about 10 seconds.

 

[klunderbunker]

For a follow up on Hennig:

1. He got there in 1988, not the mid-80s. This is of course unless you could his forgotten 1982-84 run, which means he got there in the early 1980s. In other words, Simmons picked the one wrong part of the 80s out of the three options.

2. Based on this "Hennig was forced out" theory, Bret also got rid of Hogan, Hall, Nash, DiBiase and anyone else I don't care to remember right now.

3. Bret jumped (allegedly) for $3 million a year. If you don't take that, you're not a traitor. You're an imbecile.

4. We're also supposed to ignore that the WWF was getting hot with Bret there and only survived 1997 because of the Border War. Oh and WCW shooting themselves in the foot, picking up the gun and shooting themselves in the other foot, then picking up the gun and putting a bullet in their head before they bled out. This started because they wanted to incorporate Bret Hart into their main event story I believe. Scratch the believe part. I know that's why it happened.

5. For you buddy - Canadian Stampede. Go find it.

6. As for Tom Hanks and Michael Keaton: go watch Philadelphia, Forrest Gump and Toy Story back to back to back, then watch Batman Returns and Multiplicity. You'll feel very stupid for agreeing with Simmons' theory.

7. Finally, we're supposed to forget the rub of a lifetime that Bret gave to Austin at Wrestlemania 13?

 

[Dirk]

Hart has a ton of haters, but screw that. He's still my favourite.

 

[Galvatron]

I'm a fan of Bill Simmons & Grantland and his wrestling writer "The Masked Man" (I forget his real name). I have read Simmons' articles for years and he has made no secret that HBK is his favorite wrestler of all time. Everybody knows that most HBK fans bash Hart and most Hart fans bash HBK. This just sounds like an just another HBK fan bashing Hart. I admit I'm on the Hart side and always side with Hart and have taken shots at HBK on these forums.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'm a fan of Bill Simmons & Grantland and his wrestling writer "The Masked Man" (I forget his real name). I have read Simmons' articles for years and he has made no secret that HBK is his favorite wrestler of all time. Everybody knows that most HBK fans bash Hart and most Hart fans bash HBK. This just sounds like an just another HBK fan bashing Hart. I admit I'm on the Hart side and always side with Hart and have taken shots at HBK on these forums.

Whoa whoa WHOA.

Shawn Michaels is his favorite wrestler and he's making THESE complaints about Bret?

1. Shawn's time on top dragged them WAY further down than Bret.

2. He's complaining about pink and black? Has he ever actually watched a Shawn Michaels match? Dude wore chaps to the ring, huge earrings and BROWN tights in the first ever elimination chamber, but he's complaining about pink and black?

 

[Galvatron]

Whoa whoa WHOA.

Shawn Michaels is his favorite wrestler and he's making THESE complaints about Bret?

1. Shawn's time on top dragged them WAY further down than Bret.

2. He's complaining about pink and black? Has he ever actually watched a Shawn Michaels match? Dude wore chaps to the ring, huge earrings and BROWN tights in the first ever elimination chamber, but he's complaining about pink and black?

You hit the nail on the head KB.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

Hey he gives his opinion so he's allowed to dislike the guy as much as he wants too. Personally I have no problem with Bret Hart, I always thought he was an helluva worker and he had that "It factor" that only a few had it in them at the time - Mr. Perfect sure had it no doubt and to me it seemed that he was only needing that main event feud to get what he deserved.

What Simmons is saying has a lot of "If"s... Maybe he's right, maybe Mr. Perfect could have carried the company better if given the chance, or maybe not. There's no way to tell exactly but he gives his "personal" reasons. KB stated what appears to be a lot of Bret Hart gimmicks, when in reality it's just a little tweak in his character that was heavily pushed - something like changing John Cena to "The man with the shorts", it was always there, we all noticed it but WWE would give it emphasis and then sound it like he changed him.

For me Bret Hart was a very reality based character, something like "What You See is What You Get" type of personality and that is something I can get behind. Shawn Michaels is very different, he's always been a goofy guy with a colored personality so I also like him. It's wrestling, some guys we like, some we hate. I think Simmons/Vader stuff was great btw.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Not to mention the fact that HBK HIMSELF says he was the worst human being on the planet earth during those years. Its cool though

 

[a0161613]

Hey he gives his opinion so he's allowed to dislike the guy as much as he wants too. Personally I have no problem with Bret Hart, I always thought he was an helluva worker and he had that "It factor" that only a few had it in them at the time - Mr. Perfect sure had it no doubt and to me it seemed that he was only needing that main event feud to get what he deserved.

What Simmons is saying has a lot of "If"s... Maybe he's right, maybe Mr. Perfect could have carried the company better if given the chance, or maybe not. There's no way to tell exactly but he gives his "personal" reasons. KB stated what appears to be a lot of Bret Hart gimmicks, when in reality it's just a little tweak in his character that was heavily pushed - something like changing John Cena to "The man with the shorts", it was always there, we all noticed it but WWE would give it emphasis and then sound it like he changed him.

For me Bret Hart was a very reality based character, something like "What You See is What You Get" type of personality and that is something I can get behind. Shawn Michaels is very different, he's always been a goofy guy with a colored personality so I also like him. It's wrestling, some guys we like, some we hate. I think Simmons/Vader stuff was great btw.

This isn't Ron Simmons dude.

 

[The Butcher]

I think Simmons/Vader stuff was great btw.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Just be thankful a grown man in mass media supports pro wrestling and openly.

Hart was dull. He was like Benoit and hopefully not DB. The guy you wanted to see reach the top because you appreciated his work and he seemed like a good guy but once he got there you realized there was not much anything good you could do with him. I completely identify with Simmons opinions.

And as much as I love Tom Hanks, Keaton's role in My Life shits all over Hanks playing a half ****** (never go full ******) and gay guy with AIDS.