The Sports Bar

[Stormtrooper]

Getting back to the game itself, and not numbers....


MLB Network is jumping into Bryce Harpers At Bats. They're playing the Dodgers. They cut to the Dogers broadcast, and Vin Scully was calling the game. Not only was it a beautiful thing to hear, but it got me to thinking.

Vin Scully called at-bats for a 21 year old Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson, 19-year old Bryce Harper, and everyone in-between. And he's still the best in the business. unbelievable.

Although I bet all you number-lovers would rather hear some guy spout stuff about uZR, wOBA, WAR, wLKJHSDGY, etc.

Oh, and Harthan, I can see why you gave up. I just had to explain it using easier language. I don't care about all these super-nerdy stats because they really don't change anything.

The Marlins didn't use all that stuff, and won the 2003 World Series.

The A's used all that stuff and got their asses kicked in October, because the Moneyball guys like Jeremy Giambi don't know baseball, and didn't slide into home on a close play.

 

[Harthan]

Getting back to the game itself, and not numbers....


MLB Network is jumping into Bryce Harpers At Bats. They're playing the Dodgers. They cut to the Dogers broadcast, and Vin Scully was calling the game. Not only was it a beautiful thing to hear, but it got me to thinking.

Vin Scully called at-bats for a 21 year old Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson, 19-year old Bryce Harper, and everyone in-between. And he's still the best in the business. unbelievable.

Although I bet all you number-lovers would rather hear some guy spout stuff about uZR, wOBA, WAR, wLKJHSDGY, etc.

Oh, and Harthan, I can see why you gave up. I just had to explain it using easier language. I don't care about all these super-nerdy stats because they really don't change anything.

The Marlins didn't use all that stuff, and won the 2003 World Series.

The A's used all that stuff and got their asses kicked in October, because the Moneyball guys like Jeremy Giambi don't know baseball, and didn't slide into home on a close play.

Seriously?

I was perfectly happy to have a reasonable debate with you about this, but seriously, dude, to insinuate that I don't give a shit about a legendary announcer like Vin Scully because I also happen to enjoy sabermetric analysis is just patently offensive.

Enjoy living in the past. The game passed you by ten years ago.

 

[Megatron]

smh Stormy the playoffs are a total crapshoot. In every sport. Most teams need a few fortunate bounces to win a title. Every single year. For the A's to win 103 games on a 41 million payroll (in 2002) is nothing short of remarkable. Much like what the Rays continued success has been since 08

 

[Stormtrooper]

Seriously?

I was perfectly happy to have a reasonable debate with you about this, but seriously, dude, to insinuate that I don't give a shit about a legendary announcer like Vin Scully because I also happen to enjoy sabermetric analysis is just patently offensive.

Enjoy living in the past. The game passed you by ten years ago.

That's funny, because last I checked it hasn't passed me by at all.

I know you ignored virtually everything I said in my previous posts, but I said there is nothing at all wrong with the sabermetric stuff. All I said is that it doesn't pertain to me because I don't run a team. It's way to long and confusing for someone trying to enjoy watching a GAME. A GAME is supposed to be FUN, and reading novel-length blogs explaining how a statistic is determined is the exact opposite of FUN.

And last I checked the 2009 Yankees weren't a Sabermetric team, and they won the world series. They use the new stuff, but also use the old stuff. THAT'S how you win, not by using one method exclusively. Hence why Oakland lost, and Boston and Florida won.

 

[justinsayne]

The $195,998,004 payroll kinda helped in winning that 2009 World Series as well

 

[Megatron]

Boston is one of the most progressive thinking teams in MLB. Just because they have a large payroll doesn't mean they don't follow the 'Moneyball' type philosophy. At least, they did, until they started dishing out unneccessarily large contracts to the likes of John Lackey.

Oakland didn't have the luxury of a $150 million payroll. They had to use other means to win. Did they reach the ultimate goal? No, but not many do.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Boston is one of the most progressive thinking teams in MLB. Just because they have a large payroll doesn't mean they don't follow the 'Moneyball' type philosophy. At least, they did, until they started dishing out unneccessarily large contracts to the likes of John Lackey.

Oakland didn't have the luxury of a $150 million payroll. They had to use other means to win. Did they reach the ultimate goal? No, but not many do.

Again, Florida won the Title in 03 during the Moneyball craze. They weren't a Moneyball team. They were also a small market team with a small market payroll. even teams like Tampa sign stars (Evan Longoria was signed to a long-term contract, and they keep star players until Free Agency). And Minnesota has been contending for the past 10 years.

The '08 Phillies weren't a moneyball team either. Nor the '06 Cardinals (or the '11 cards for that matter).

Oakland was not successful. They had a few good years but they never stood a chance in October, always losing in the Division Series (and not just against the Yankees, but against the Twins too).


Success=Championships. If you are winning division year in and year out and never winning shit in the postseason, you're not successful, you're a failure.

EDIT: apparently they beat the twins once in 2006. Still, once in 10 years? among the worst team in the league the past 5 years? Yeah, you're not a success.

 

[Megatron]

Moneyball is a concept for small market teams to have a chance at competing with large market teams. However, large market teams have taken notice of these practices and, as such, copied the idea, and hurting the smaller market teams because they could offer more money and take away the advantage Moneyball teams once had. You'll see a lot of teams having at least one sabremetrician (I'd be surprised if every team didn't have at least one) trying to stay with the curve and not fall too far behind from advanced forms of thinking.

The one difference between these teams is that small market teams can rarely dip their hands into the free agency market and some have problems holding onto their top stars when their contract runs out. They also have to be more accurate with their scouting and developing, because a few bad calls on players here and there and they could be in a hole for a few years, while for large payroll teams they can normally fix their problems through free agency.

You're trying to to say the A's are the one of the few teams that use sabremetrics to stay ahead of the curve and aren't working, thus Moneyball = failure of a concept. However, while the A's failed in a sense, Moneyball isn't a failed concept, because larger markets (Boston, Yankees recently, and the Cards) have taken that idea and been able to exploit it a tad more due to the payroll they have.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I wanna know how Stormy has access to all of these teams' front offices to know they didn't use any of these advanced metrics to scout talent

 

[Megatron]

Or we can talk about sabermetrics in here:

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?p=3877428#post3877428

/cheap plug.

 

[Mick Overlast]

Anyone else's mind blown by this Sarah Phillips story?

 

[Stormtrooper]

Anyone else's mind blown by this Sarah Phillips story?

My mind is NOT blown..... Because I never heard of any of it. Who is this Sarah Phillips person? And what happened to make her newsworthy?


Here's a nice story for you all.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7...ured-rutgers-dt-eric-legrand-symbolic-gesture

One of those nice stories where you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who finds something wrong with this.

 

[justinsayne]

Via Adam Schefters twitter

And that will be it for Saints suspensions: Fujuita, Smith, Hargrove and Vilma for one year. No other player suspensions.

Not nearly as bad as I thought it was gonna be, by that I mean I figured alot more suspensions would be handed out.

EDIT: Apparently they're not all one year

Jonathan Vilma out for the year.

3 games for Scott Fujita

8 for Anthony Hargrove

4 for Will Smith.

 

[Stormtrooper]

No the Saints players got off fairly easy.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7881761/nfl-bans-four-players-new-orleans-saints-bounty-roles

Anthony Hargrove got 8 games
Will Smith got 4
Scott Fugita got 3
Vilma got the year.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

How did they determine the length of games?

 

[Stormtrooper]

How did they determine the length of games?

Probably the same way they do for all suspensions. They look at the evidence and how severe the "crime" was, and act accordingly. Vilma was the most egregious of all the misdeeds, and as such he got the largest suspension. Well deserved, too.

 

[Davi323]

Apparently Junior Seau committed suicide a little more than an hour ago. Of all the ex-NFL players who might contemplate such a thing, Seau would not have been even in my top 200. Saddened by this. In two years, the guy would have been an lock to be a 1st ballot hall of famer.

 

[Lowdown]

Apparently Junior Seau committed suicide a little more than an hour ago. Of all the ex-NFL players who might contemplate such a thing, Seau would not have been even in my top 200. Saddened by this. In two years, the guy would have been an lock to be a 1st ballot hall of famer.

You're joking, right?

 

[Lowdown]

Just read it on yahoo sports. Unbelievable man

 

[Big Sexy]

ESPN finally confirmed it.

 

[Harthan]

My mind is NOT blown..... Because I never heard of any of it. Who is this Sarah Phillips person? And what happened to make her newsworthy?


Here's a nice story for you all.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7...ured-rutgers-dt-eric-legrand-symbolic-gesture

One of those nice stories where you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who finds something wrong with this.

That is pretty neat. Classy move.

 

[Stormtrooper]

This is such a sad day, yet not at all shocking. Am I shocked that this specific guy did it? maybe, but not really (there were reports he drove off a cliff a year or so ago). I'm kinda numb to all the NFL players and death. Either way, it's a terrible loss for his family, the San Diego Chargers and their fans, and the league as a whole.

RIP Junior Seau.

And I'm happy ESPN didn't rush to confirm this story. Wait until he's confirmed to be dead before saying he's dead. ESPN rushes to report all their stories, but this is one you wait on.


This is yet another reason why people should shut up about Roger Goodell. He's trying to keep these guys (and thus the league) alive, yet everyone hates him.

 

[Harthan]

Not sure why everyone hates on Goodell, really. Would rather have David "I'll gladly interfere in trades that franchises have entered into willingly" Stern or Bud "What's that, instant replay, no, let's focus on rushing a moronic one game playoff into the schedule" Selig?

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Not sure why everyone hates on Goodell, really. Would rather have David "I'll gladly interfere in trades that franchises have entered into willingly" Stern or Bud "What's that, instant replay, no, let's focus on rushing a moronic one game playoff into the schedule" Selig?

But he's taking all the fun out of football. What about defensive players? Think about the defensive players. Offense, offense, offense.

 

[Stormtrooper]

Not sure why everyone hates on Goodell, really. Would rather have David "I'll gladly interfere in trades that franchises have entered into willingly" Stern or Bud "What's that, instant replay, no, let's focus on rushing a moronic one game playoff into the schedule" Selig?

Completely disagree about the 1-game playoff. I think it's awesome for baseball, and something they should have done right away.

He's definitely the best commissioner in major pro sports. Bettman is probably second, but it's not close.


Back to Seau, I actually find the Chargers statement a bit off. They said to stop what you're doing and think of him. Sorry, but I was on the highway when I heard that, and I was not gonna stop driving, as it was dangerous.

Mort just brought up something on ESPN. Apparently he shot himself in the heart, not the head. Dave Duerson did the same thing so that his brain would be studied. Might be another brain for Chris Nowinski and his brain study people.