The problem isn't "smarks, smarts, whatever". It's the WWE's fault....

[shitsngiggles]

The problem isn't "smarks, smarts, whatever". It's the WWE's fault That there are "Goldberg", "Husky Harris" "Albert" etc. chants.

I read the articles on the main page about Madden, and the other guy having a go at "smarks" for their chants, and the response to those 2 articles by the other writer (sorry, I really don't care who you are).

The thing all 3 of these guys fail to address, is the plain and simple fact, that the WWE is responsible for this happening. Simple!

If the WWE had an ounce of common sense, when they debut someone new, why not try and go with a character right off the bat and stick with it?

This isn't the 90s anymore FFS! Dude Love, Cactus Jack, Mankind all worked because of Mick Foley, he was meant to be a mental guy, changing his "persona" was almost expected.

There are other success stories, but let's face facts here......

When you create a character or a persona for someone, then try and change it, what kind of response do you expect?

Trying to debut Albert as some kind of Japanese guy was just plain stupid! How flat was that debut? Now he's in some pathetic tag team with another fat bloke who's debut fell flat (it didn't get him very far anyway).

If the WWE could put together characters or personas that worked from the start, they kept the same names, didn't try and shove pathetic attempts at covering it up down people's throats, and just generally didn't mess things up so badly.

Then perhaps the "smarks" wouldn't have anything to chant about?

What do you peeps think?

 

[Blade]

Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on everything you've said.

The problem isn't "smarks, smarts, whatever". It's the WWE's fault That there are "Goldberg", "Husky Harris" "Albert" etc. chants.

No, it's not. WWE aren't forcing them to chant those stupid chants.

I read the articles on the main page about Madden, and the other guy having a go at "smarks" for their chants, and the response to those 2 articles by the other writer (sorry, I really don't care who you are).

Well, they're guys who know more about wrestling than you, or the chanters, do.

The thing all 3 of these guys fail to address, is the plain and simple fact, that the WWE is responsible for this happening. Simple!

This should be good.

If the WWE had an ounce of common sense, when they debut someone new, why not try and go with a character right off the bat and stick with it?

The funny thing about wrestling is that some wrestlers, even if they have the potential, can't get over. It might be from a weak gimmick, it might be cause they weren't ready to be on TV, it might be because WWE didn't have enough faith. But it happens.

So when a wrestler is unable to get over, they should stay as their character that isn't over instead of trying something different?

Let's take a look at some wrestlers who couldn't get over, so were repackaged and became successful:

Kane, Kevin Nash, Raven, Golddust, Dolph Ziggler, Farooq, the list keeps going and going. There's also successful wrestlers who were given bad gimmicks afterwards.

Husky Harris, Skip Sheffield and Albert were never main event talents. But after being repackaged, Harris is now one of the most exciting characters we've seen on WWE TV in a long time, and Sheffield received several WWE title matches. Albert is worse off now than he was as Albert, but hey, two out of three ain't bad.

This isn't the 90s anymore FFS! Dude Love, Cactus Jack, Mankind all worked because of Mick Foley, he was meant to be a mental guy, changing his "persona" was almost expected.

This is an unbelievably stupid point for a number of reasons. If you can call it a point.

Firstly, like you said, it was a gimmick within a gimmick that he had multiple gimmicks. Gimmiception, if you will. People chanted "Foley!" all the time when he was any of his gimmicks and it didn't matter because we were supposed to acknowledge that all three of these men were Mick Foley, it was a running joke.

Secondly, that gimmick within a gimmick only worked because Mick Foley was already over before he started switching between gimmicks.

Thirdly, chants like the Husky Harris one wouldn't have happened in those times because there were far less smarks due to the internet not being as popular. So yeah, thanks for helping me prove me point.

There are other success stories, but let's face facts here......

"Facts"

When you create a character or a persona for someone, then try and change it, what kind of response do you expect?

I would expect any wrestling fan with half a brain to give it a shot, considering they didn't connect with the previous gimmick but WWE clearly has enough faith to give them a second chance.

Trying to debut Albert as some kind of Japanese guy was just plain stupid! How flat was that debut? Now he's in some pathetic tag team with another fat bloke who's debut fell flat (it didn't get him very far anyway).

Yeah, because not every repackaging works. Some would actually say it's surprising Albert's gimmick didn't get over, since he had gotten so much success in Japan. But, unfortunately, Albert kinda sucks.

But you can't say Bray Wyatt and Ryback haven't worked out, or are at least more over than Husky Harris and Skip Sheffield.

If the WWE could put together characters or personas that worked from the start,

They didn't work from the start, that's the point. Nobody cared about Husky Harris or Skip Sheffield.

they kept the same names, didn't try and shove pathetic attempts at covering it up down people's throats, and just generally didn't mess things up so badly.

Pathetic attempts at covering it up? Bray Wyatt is literally nothing like Husky Harris, apart from being fat, and Ryback is a completely different gimmick and persona to Skip Sheffield. What the hell do you want? To give a wrestler a mask every time he's repackaged? Should they get plastic surgery?

Also, it's funny how any time that somebody the IWC doesn't like gets a push, no matter how much they deserve it, they're apparently getting shoved down our throats. But CM Punk as WWE champion for 434 days, getting a lot of air time, isn't him being shoved down our throats. I'm not anti-Punk, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Then perhaps the "smarks" wouldn't have anything to chant about?

What do you peeps think?

I think this is one of the worst explanations for the chanting I've ever seen.

Those fans chanted those stupid chants because they thought they were being bold or clever when, really, they were just being douchebags. That's all there really is to it. Those kinds of fans care more about looking cool than they do about wrestling, and that's why they don't deserve to be wrestling fans.

 

[Spack]

"Mean" Mark Callous
Johnny Polo
The Ringmaster
Avalanche
Kama "The Supreme Fighting Machine"
The Repo Man


These were all wrestlers that were repackaged at one time or other, due to a promotion wanting to take a wrestler in a different direction. Not because they questioned the intelligence of their viewers, but because they felt it was best for business. The only difference? Back then wrestling fans watched for entertainment, not because they wanted to prove that they are smarter they are than other fans. Ask yourself a question: if you go and see the Lone Ranger in the theater, are you going to stand up and chant "Edward Scissorhands"? No, because we all know that actors don't play the same roles their whole career. The same can be said about wrestlers. At some point, ALL wrestlers get a repack. It's just the nature of the business. I think the problem with "smarks" is that their so wrapped up in trying to prove how smart they are, they don't care whether or not they're ruining another fan's experience. Not only are the smark chants annoying, they're disrespectful to boot. Disrespectful to other fans and disrespectful for the wrestlers trying to make a living by portraying whatever role the promoter asks of them. Like it or not, when you pull the veil back, by chanting things like "Husky Harris", you are actually jeopardizing that performers livelihood, thus burying the same performers you claim to support.

 

[Jay Jayerson]

Spoken like a kid still in college.

The real secret to life is that YOU must manage YOUR expectations. Not the other way around. If them recycling a performer and giving them a new name bothers you so much. Watch something else. Dont ruin it for the rest of us.

 

[ANKHOR_MAN3]

Do you watch NXT because if you did you would understand. Bray Wyatt has been wrestling for NXT for over a year. He never got Husky Harris chants there. Let's be honest characters have been changed for decades. They have come from other promotions and come to wwe and changed. Michael McGuilicuty is now curtis axel. Yet he still does the same moves so he's more similar to his other character why not yell his old name? The problem is the fan that thinks he's too smart for his own good and doesn't want the WWE to so called get one over on them. I am a smart fan I have watched wrestling every since I can remember, yet when some superstar gets a refresher I like to see what they do with that character. They are putting in all the work to be different yet we want them to be the same. How does that make sense Husky Harris was a horrible gimmick but it served it's purpose another person to fill a void when an already hurt nexus member went out. That's the same as if you got a promotion and nobody respected and people still treated you like you were in the other position in the company you previously came from. You wouldn't want people disrespecting your position. It's a fucking name do you really get that much satisfaction calling him Husky Harris? The point of wrestling is to pretend if you want something real go watch UFC. These are characters nobody goes to the movies and yells at Dom Torreto, Xander Cage Xander Cage (Xander Cage was Vin Diesels character in XXX). You guys kill pushes with that stuff before a guy has a chance to prove himself. You want the old character so bad that you don't cheer or boo you stay silent or chant his other name. This is why pushes don't happen because smart fans won't let people be different. It's like you're in a relationship and you got cheated on and you won't let your girlfriend/boyfriend forget that they cheated. So they get fed up and leave you and that could've have been your future spouse. Everyone has a mistake or a character they wish never happened. Stone Cold was the Ring Master, Rock was Rocky Mavia, John Cena's original character sucked, HHH was Hunter Hearst Hemsley, Kane was Isaac Yankem and Fake Diesel, Sheamus was a security guard that got beat up, big show was paul white, billy gunn was a smoking gunn before he was an assman. Let's be clear everyone get's a reboot just because you know something doesn't mean you have to express it.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

So get it right the first time, and if you don't... never try again?

Wrestling history is full of gimmicks that didn't work, but the guy behind the gimmick eventually catching on with another one.

It's also full of gimmicks that didn't work initially, were retooled in some fashion and did get over in the end.

When they come up with a new gimmick, they can do all the research they want into it. They can put all the detail they want into it. But they don't know how it will go over with the fans until they try it out in front of them... and a lot of the time what the final product ends up being is something that was allowed to organically grow after it's debut.

Tensai was a silly gimmick... but it had potential. Continuing the push (he went over Cena when he started, so they had big plans for it), but maybe simply toning the whole Japanese/samurai aspect down would have made it better while allowing the push to continue... and they could have gotten the monster title challenger for the summer they wanted to feed to the babyface champ Punk. But the fans with their Albert chants wouldn't allow it, and now you're stuck with a guy who could play a good monster heel to feed to a babyface champ playing the fool in a comedy tag team. You can probably bet safely that Tensai himself would rather he stayed in Japan where he had a pretty respectable career going for himself, than do what he has to do nightly in the WWE today.

There was a time though that's exactly what would have happened with him. He would have worked on the gimmick after it's debut when he saw the more outlandish aspects of it weren't working, and he would have had a good run as a monster heel before ultimately losing to the babyface champion of the time. That was classic WWF booking, and for one, having guys like that fed to him was a big part of Hulk Hogan's overall gimmick and what helped him stay over.

It wasn't that fans didn't recognize guys in new gimmicks back then either. They either just had a better ability to suspend their disbelief... or just had more respect for the guys going out there to entertain them.

Wouldn't these things have been fun though if no one ever tried a new gimmick back in the day:

- Sterlingmania and all the Sterlingmaniacs
- the jobber Curt Hennig instead of Mr. Perfect (he started out in the WWF as an underneath guy in the early 80's)
- the undefeated Wrestlemania streak of "Mean" Mark Callous
- the Ringmaster opening a can of technical wrestling on you?
- if you smell, what Rocky Maivia... is cooking? (said of course with the biggest, cheesiest smile on his face

 

[ANKHOR_MAN3]

Also they never ever claimed Tensai (Albert) was from Japan. In fact they explained it several times that he was a former WWE star that went to Japan and destroyed everything over there but adapted to their customs. It's fans like you that killed this character, you never game him a chance to speak, because you thought oh WWE is trying to convince us he's from Japan so let me be smart and chant albert until he's killed off. Really though Albert is actually very good in the ring and I do believe his gimmick would have worked had been given a chance but then again the internet allows you to play smart when in actuality the smarter you try and sound with these chants actually make you look dumb. We know he used to be Husky Harris and we know he used be Albert so what? What did that just prove by me saying that?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Yeah, I have to agree with Blade as the OP is paced with bullshit. Smarks, in my opinion, are a significant problem as they're more interested in trying to look cool or just generally being douche bags than even trying to enjoy the product. At the same time, however, if they want to pay money in order to see something that the supposedly don't like, then maybe "smark" is a term that should be retired and something new create; because they're certainly not smart.

I also have to agree with Blade as it pertains to people getting pushed. Unless it's a small handful of wrestlers, to use Punk and Bryan as examples then someone from the net starts saying that those being pushed are being "shoved down our throats". Just because someone is getting pushed that you're not a fan of doesn't mean that they're getting shoved down anyone's throat.

 

[Nikeo]

'Cause let's face it, the WWE were just plain stupid not to stick with the Ringmaster.

I'd echo everything your man Blade said, I can't put it any better than that. Some of the best characters have come from repackaged wrestlers. If a character isn't working, historically, you give them a reboot and start again. It's worked time, and time and time again - the problem is not the concept, it's the modern wrestling fan. Most of them are absolute idiots who think they're "cool" and "rebelious".

 

[BaconBits]

Way, way too much emphasis is put on smarky crowd chants when they happen. Wrasslin' boards light up like Christmas tress with hate on said fans, saying it's a scourge, bad, etc...

But, here's the thing. The smarkiest chants really only happen Wrestlemania weekend and when they are in the eastern corridor from Washington DC up to Boston. They go away as soon as the E moves on to a different area of the country, the chants subside and it's back to business as usual.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Smarks may be part of it, but WWE does have to shoulder some blame on one point, although the OP doesn't quite get to it.

There is a reason for all the re-repackaging and always has been, for guys not sticking with their names through a career - that WWE needs/wants to own intellectual property and thus gimmicks and names.

Case in point, one of the very few WWE guys to make it under the gimmick and name they began under is CM Punk. He has used that name his entire career, owns the rights to it, but make no mistake - WWE tried everying in their power to own that name, they tried threatening, buying, bargaining but Phil Brooks knew the value of what he had built up and that WWE wanted him enough that eventually, it would be let go.

Take the other guy at the moment who is on the rise... he used his real name in much of his career but also had a gimmick, he and Punk had legendary battles but when the time came we didn't see Bryan Danielson on WWE TV but Daniel Bryan. A subtle change, but a name that WWE owns, when Bryan was released a week in it was back to Bryan Danielson, and it would be again - even if he is the biggest name in the business by that time.

In most cases a wrestler's real name isn't right for them, or the business - Ricky Steamboat's real name was perfect if he was going to be a heel as Richard Blood, but for the character he portrayed, Steamboat worked better. Even guys who did use their real names in the WWE often found that they would be WWE spelled, Batista rather than Bautista for example. Some eventually manage to step out of gimmicks like Mick Foley did (and I still think Mark Calloway will for one last match) but on the whole wrestlers need a gimmick and a name to get over, and WWE needs to own as many of them as possible so that they can't just up and leave or take them to Hollywood. Remember Vince got burned by this twice in the 80's - his dad gave the then Sterling Golden the name Hulk Hogan, but he never actually owned that name - they always had to pay Marvel a healthy licensing fee and once Hogan was gone from WWE so was that name... Same for Jim Hellwig, Vince had given him a name - although he had used Dingo Warrior before and thought he could control that name going forward, so Hellwig got creative and changed his legal name to just Warrior. Vince couldn't do a thing as he'd bee a "warrior" in WCCW and thus he lost all those rights to the character he created.

The problem now is WWE fans in general are wise to this kind of thing, that most gimmicks are not about being right for the wrestler but something to be owned, a "slave name" if you like... the average fan knows that Bray Wyatt isn't even just Husky Harris but actually Windham Rotunda, they know he's IRS's boy and that WWE are just putting a gimmick on him. Even Curtis Axel didn't take off as well as he could have cos even the younger fans didn't like the fact they weren't letting him use his family name. They know that new guys coming in were once someone else and that even if they'd been in TNA that Vince will force a new gimmick on them. If Bobby Roode shows up in TNA, they know he won't use that name... hell they'd probably make Matt Morgan change it this time.

When Tensai came back, all the Albert chant's said was that people wanted to see the Albert character, or the Giant Bernard style japanese character not this new one... Some chanted "Husky Harris" cos others did, some cos they may have genuinely preferred Husky Harris but to dismiss it all as "smarks" is not looking at the full picture.

WWE and Vince is very much at a crossroads, for years it has been a valuable mine of IP, they have had names they can market - that process is stalling, the current crop aren't capturing the imagination of the public in the way the older guys and Hogan era crop did. The irony is that to stop these kind of chants, to get fans to re-connect with the product they may well have to go backwards, more into real names and old school wrestling. Vince absolutely doesn't want that - he'd rather retire and sell to Disney than let WWE become a wrestling show run by Triple H... but while IP is more important than entertaining the fans, they're gonna chant, gonna mess up pushes by Fandangoing and force guys like Punk and Bryan to be promoted...cos they're the paying customers...

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Although a wrestler can overcome the idiocy of fans in this day and age the OP does have a point. It's a lot harder in this day and age for someone to get over when they are first introduced to a national audience with a shit name or shit gimmick no one cares about.

I hate fans do this, I understand why they do it but I hate that they do it. A lot of times fans want to seem smart and don't realize the damage they are doing before they do it. When I look back at the 80's and 90's today and look at the mega stars there is something very noticeable: The mega stars of each era all resonate with pop culture in some way. In the 80's American pride was in full swing, bodybuilders were in and that's why a character like Hogan worked so well, it resonated with America and because of that it just worked. In the 90's everything was about being a rebel and anti establishment, for that reason Austin resonated so well. You put Austin in the 80's and Hogan in the 90's and they both would not have been as over as they were in their respective decades. Today things are more like "everything sucks, everyone be a smart ass and everyone be random", that's the message I get from pop culture today. Just going to a junior high to pick up my gf's kid you can see it in their clothes and in their speech. They say random shit for the sake of saying random shit, they wear shirts that say stuff like "Captain Obvious" and the complain about everything (well that parts just being a teen). That's why Cena get's cheered by half the fans and booed by the other half, its cool to say "Cena sucks" so they chant Cena sucks, and start to believe he sucks when in fact he's actually awesome.

This is also why people chant Goldberg to Ryback or the Husky Harris chants from a few RAW's ago. Being a smart ass is what's in right now and for that reason giving someone a shit gimmick to start off with can cause irreversible damage in this day and age. You have already given the audience a reason to not like the person when you do that. In the 90's you could just swap a gimmick and people would just buy into it, at first they would realize Diesel is really Vinnie Vegas but they would also accept Diesel as completely fresh and take that character for what it was and if Diesel caught on (which he did) then eventually we would forget Vinnie Vegas existed. There aren't enough people like that anymore and why would they be? It's cool to be a random and to be a smart ass, that's what in right now and that's why hearing things like "Husky Harris" is gonna happen no matter what.

It's not necessarily fair that most only get 1 shot to get over these days but it is what it is.

 

[sdelfin]

I agree with the original poster and have made the same point myself. There is value in the original post. There are good points in many of the replies. But this is not an all or nothing deal. The "Husky Harris" chants are not helpful. But it would be foolish to not expect them nowadays. Vince exposed the business long ago and this is one of the consequences. It is not useful to ignore reality but rather to accept it and work with it. The WWE will just have to deal with it in the case of Wyatt, who I think will be just fine, and prevent it by doing a better job in the future of getting things right the first time as much as possible. And that is really the most important point in the original post, that the WWE should try to get things right the first time. It doesn't mean they need to be perfect. It doesn't mean to try once and then forget about talented people. Repackaging can work, just ask Fandango and The Ryback, but it's not preferable to starting off right, and that has always been the case. I think what we are seeing is a slow change in booking philosophy. WWE seems to be headed in a more interesting and positive direction and they're doing a much better job with new characters lately. Looking at the early days of NXT on TV, when The Ryback was a fake cowboy(a role I believe he did not like), there were a lot of bad ideas and general laziness coming from the creative team. The point is, and always has been, not to put people on TV with bad gimmicks and nothing to do. That's the quickest way to have guys fall flat and never get over. As I said, I think they're doing a better job now, but they already did their damage with Husky Harris since he's one of the last guys from the old NXT days.

 

[SaveUsCMPunk]

Kama "The Supreme Fighting Machine"
The Repo Man

I kind of doubt many people knew at the time that these guys used to be known as Papa Shango and Smash of Demolition, respectively. I sure didn't.

The wrestling business was better off before the internet boom and I can see why people in the business hate dirt sheets and "know it all" wrestling fans. Sure, it's fun to read all this insider information, but future plans and storylines always get leaked out and it kind of ruins things. Yeah, you can just stop reading "news sites" but for some it's like a daily ritual. (I'm glad I didn't have the internet during the Attitude Era.) Reading the comment sections on the articles found on the WZ main page makes me feel dumber just from reading them. A perfect example is all those ******s that think anything WWE is better than TNA. "TNA will be dead in the next year." "3MB > Aces N' Eights." "The Job Squad > Aces N' Eights." Basically any of those jackasses with the IQ of a rock that think the WWE booking is flawless(LOL!) and rip apart anything TNA does just because they're not WWE. But I digress.

As for the whole "Husky Harris" chant on Raw recently, I honestly can't believe that people are making such a big deal out of it. Maybe if I re-watched it, I might find it annoying but at the time, I thought nothing of it. People in WWE (Probably Vince McMahon) think a lot of fans are idiots with short memories. A perfect example of this is the sudden transformation of Viscera into Big Daddy V. The announcers acted like they had never seen him before. I guess the fact that his hair was now black and he wasn't wearing a shirt made it impossible for us to tell he was Viscera! We're not stupid. I'm not saying wrestlers shouldn't be repackaged. Kane became a legend as Kane. I kind of doubt he'd be the same as Isaac Yankem or Fake Diesel. Realistically, how many people in 1997-1999 knew it was him that played those two gimmicks? The internet is both a blessing and a curse and quite honestly, I find these really "knowledgeable" wrestling fans that say stuff like "Scott Steiner was difficult to deal with during his first WWE run." (Um....how the Hell do you know this?) to be pretty annoying.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

First of all, I absolutely hate this mentality of said fan having the right to act like an idiotic jackass, because they buy a ticket. I constantly go to the movies, and I pay for my tickets. Does that mean it's okay for me to leave my ringer on loud, take a phone call during the movie, and talk out loud during the movie? No. I'm not saying you can't boo, cheer, root for, or support whoever you like or dislike. But when you're going out of your way to be a dick, draw attention to yourself, and ruin the show, so you can be "cool" or "hip," that's crossing the line. Prime examples would the crowd on Raw the night after Wrestlemania, and the people, who were booing Cena's Make-A-Wish foundation video at the HOF ceremony, and booing Maria Menounos during Backlund's HOF induction speech.

And yeah, blaming WWE doesn't make any sense. If Ryback had a goatee, wore black wrestling trunks, black boots, and used a Spear or Jack Hammer as a finisher, then you would have a point. But because Ryback is a big muscular, bald guy with lots intensity, people feel the need to start "Goldberg" chants. I don't get it. Ryback isn't the first big muscle guy with lots intensity, who's built up to be a wrecking machine, and he won't be the last.

 

[shitsngiggles]

I agreed with some of your points, but just wanted to take this part and show why these worked (perhaps?)

Stone Cold was the Ring Master, Rock was Rocky Mavia, John Cena's original character sucked, HHH was Hunter Hearst Hemsley, Kane was Isaac Yankem and Fake Diesel, Sheamus was a security guard that got beat up, big show was paul white, billy gunn was a smoking gunn before he was an assman. Let's be clear everyone get's a reboot just because you know something doesn't mean you have to express it.

Stone Cold was the Ring Master, so he had a gimmick name, I don't remember Stone Cold Steve Austin, ever being called The Ringmast Steve Austin or Steve Austin the Ring Master. But anyway, if you can't see why that one would have worked, then I'm sorry.

It's pretty easy to swap being called "Thunderthighs Thistlehead" with being called "Thunderguts Thistlhead" is it not?

Rocky Maivia, took his first name and in effect, took on a "nickname" The Rock, not too difficult to see how why nobody ever chanted "husky harris!" at him there is it? What did they chant? "Rocky! Rocky!" Pretty simple stuff here.

Hasn't John Cena always been called John Cena in WWE? If not, I obviously wasn't paying attention (might have been when I last stopped watching).

Triple H, HHH, Hunter Hearst Helmsley, pretty simple stuff here, his persona changed, his name is pretty much the same wouldn't you agree?

Kane was Isaac Yankem and Fake Diesel, I don't remember Isaac Yankem, Fake Diesel was without a mask, Kane was masked. Might be harder to pull off these days, but Kane was very much covered up and could have been anyone.

Sheamus was a security guard that got beat up, I remember none of this. Was he cutting promos or part of a group and being called Dougal Maguire? Or, was it just a jobbers role that nobody would care about?

Big Show was Paul White, not excactly difficult to see why that worked, he's still the same guy pretty much. Why not call the biggest guy, "The Big Show"? It's a Nickname, much like The Rock, much like HHH, John Cena could even just be called "Cena" if they wanted, doesn't change much at all.

billy gunn was a smoking gunn before he was an assman. He was still the same guy though, this isn't like he was called Billy Gunn, then came out and called himself Arnold Armendinger is it?

 

[whiterasta80]

The only place where WWE has to accept some of the blame for the "Husky Harris" chants is with not being able to edit the sound properly. They should have been able to dampen that chant easily and I am still surprised that got past production.

At the same time I don't think that the smarks deserve as much blame as Madden etc... give them either. I don't see the "husky harris" or "albert" chants as any different than "Rocky Sucks" or the constant "boring" chants that women's division has suffered through since Trish/Lita. If the fans were entertained then there wouldn't be any chants. The Rock learned that lesson, repackaged and ran with it. Personally I think that a decade from now we will be hearing Rotunda complain about that time when he was first getting over the fans wouldn't shut up.

 

[ANKHOR_MAN3]

I agreed with some of your points, but just wanted to take this part and show why these worked (perhaps?)



Stone Cold was the Ring Master, so he had a gimmick name, I don't remember Stone Cold Steve Austin, ever being called The Ringmast Steve Austin or Steve Austin the Ring Master. But anyway, if you can't see why that one would have worked, then I'm sorry.

It's pretty easy to swap being called "Thunderthighs Thistlehead" with being called "Thunderguts Thistlhead" is it not?

Rocky Maivia, took his first name and in effect, took on a "nickname" The Rock, not too difficult to see how why nobody ever chanted "husky harris!" at him there is it? What did they chant? "Rocky! Rocky!" Pretty simple stuff here.

Hasn't John Cena always been called John Cena in WWE? If not, I obviously wasn't paying attention (might have been when I last stopped watching).

Triple H, HHH, Hunter Hearst Helmsley, pretty simple stuff here, his persona changed, his name is pretty much the same wouldn't you agree?

Kane was Isaac Yankem and Fake Diesel, I don't remember Isaac Yankem, Fake Diesel was without a mask, Kane was masked. Might be harder to pull off these days, but Kane was very much covered up and could have been anyone.

Sheamus was a security guard that got beat up, I remember none of this. Was he cutting promos or part of a group and being called Dougal Maguire? Or, was it just a jobbers role that nobody would care about?

Big Show was Paul White, not excactly difficult to see why that worked, he's still the same guy pretty much. Why not call the biggest guy, "The Big Show"? It's a Nickname, much like The Rock, much like HHH, John Cena could even just be called "Cena" if they wanted, doesn't change much at all.

billy gunn was a smoking gunn before he was an assman. He was still the same guy though, this isn't like he was called Billy Gunn, then came out and called himself Arnold Armendinger is it?

First I was using to show how stupid the original argument is. How can you say all the blame is on one or the other. My whole point is this both parties have a say in this. Fans however choose to be dicks. People didn't just become fans overnight gimmicks have failed since professional wrestling has existed. For a fan to outright try and destroy a wrestlers push is wrong. I could understand if they're characters were the same but with Bray Wyatt it is a complete character overhaul. Watching NXT proves his evolution. Working on a character with that much depth to give a different aspect to the same product that we see on a weekly basis is what we want right? That's why superstars become successful. Austin was different he went against the establishment. HBK made you think that you didn't have to be a muscle pumped up champion. The Rock was whitty and super energetic. They all had character changes and they evolved. A superstar doesn't have to keep the same name to evolve. Hell we ask for character overhauls all the time. I remember when he was Husky Harris and all the smart marks were calling for him to change his character oh he needs a change. He gets one and people still chant a name they didn't even care about. That is what I meant when I brought up the names you mentioned.

 

[H33LTurn]

First of all, its amazing that this is still an issue. WWE and the IWC should cut their loses and appreciate the fact that the fans are enjoying themselves at live events. First of all WWE is no more to blame for superstars having different characters than movie studios are for actors playing different roles. If you went to watch After Earth with Will Smith and you were calling him the Fresh Prince and expecting uncle Phil to come in and lecture him at some point, you're doing it wrong. It is not that impossible for one to suspend ones disbelief when watching a TV show. If you can tell that its Husky Harris under the hat and Hawaiian shirts then congratulations, you have eyes. However, I dont mind the chants one bit. If Ryback bears a striking resemblance to Goldberg not only physically but character wise then its only natural for fans to make that comparison. We're getting to an age in pro wrestling where the curtain is more pulled back than ever and so chants like that are understood and more tolerated. Everyone knows its Husky, but no one honestly cares.

 

[ttdg]

At the same time, however, if they want to pay money in order to see something that the supposedly don't like, then maybe "smark" is a term that should be retired and something new create; because they're certainly not smart.

This is something I have been saying for a while now. I have actually come up with the term "anti-fan" to describe them. I look at them as wrestling hipsters. They do the opposite of what WWE expects of the WWE Universe because they are too cool and smart for that.

 

[Headman]

The problem isn't "smarks, smarts, whatever". It's the WWE's fault That there are "Goldberg", "Husky Harris" "Albert" etc. chants.

I read the articles on the main page about Madden, and the other guy having a go at "smarks" for their chants, and the response to those 2 articles by the other writer (sorry, I really don't care who you are).

The thing all 3 of these guys fail to address, is the plain and simple fact, that the WWE is responsible for this happening. Simple!

If the WWE had an ounce of common sense, when they debut someone new, why not try and go with a character right off the bat and stick with it?

This isn't the 90s anymore FFS! Dude Love, Cactus Jack, Mankind all worked because of Mick Foley, he was meant to be a mental guy, changing his "persona" was almost expected.

There are other success stories, but let's face facts here......

When you create a character or a persona for someone, then try and change it, what kind of response do you expect?

Trying to debut Albert as some kind of Japanese guy was just plain stupid! How flat was that debut? Now he's in some pathetic tag team with another fat bloke who's debut fell flat (it didn't get him very far anyway).

If the WWE could put together characters or personas that worked from the start, they kept the same names, didn't try and shove pathetic attempts at covering it up down people's throats, and just generally didn't mess things up so badly.

Then perhaps the "smarks" wouldn't have anything to chant about?

What do you peeps think?

Are you serious? Guys have been repackaged since the 50's. When a gimmick doesn't work they re-tool them. So Husky Harris bombed, they can't use him any more because his first name/gimmick didn't work? Sounds like someone is a little butt hurt for being called out for his smarkish ways.

 

[MWRedskins]

KINDA agree and kinda disagree. i DO blame the smarks for the Husky Harris chant. WWE did EVERYTHING they could to make Bray Wyatt into his own character and honestly, Bray looks different than Husky. Husky Harris was a clean cut big guy while Bray is a long haired, cult leader type, so i cant blame WWE there as the Bray Wyatt character is a complete opposite of the Husky Harris character.

now as for the Goldberg chants at Ryback, i kinda do blame them as he was basically similar to Goldberg with his moves and his look and his quiet personality. as for Albert, it's their fault as he just looks like Albert. when i heard he was going to be "Lord Tensai" my first thought when i saw his preview videos was he's going to be a guy wearing a mask, but the issue was the mask came off and he didnt look much different which kinda hurt from the smarks....i gave it a chance, but in the end, i just saw Albert.

 

[IT Factor]

I read that Madden column and it was total bullshit as usual. He says the "marks" are to blame for people chanting Husky instead of Bray. Well, here's the problem with that: so far, Bray Wyatt has been lackluster and Husky Harris had more memorable moments. People tend to remember wrestlers for whatever gimmick was more popular and so far Bray Wyatt has not impressed me or done anything for people to sit up and notice him other than cryptic and weird promos. Madden forgets that we are all "marks" in the sense that we all are fans and we cheer/boo whoever resonates with us individually. To blame fans is just ignorant and wrong. I thought Madden was a supposed insider? His columns reflect a different image to me one of a self-righteous, know it all douchebag. WWE are to blame because they do not properly build their new stars enough that fans remember them so they are remembered for previous characters instead who did get proper build. Husky Harris may not have been the most memorable of characters but at least The Nexus was a decent storyline that fans knew about and either really hated or loved. It is really quite simple you get what you give and lately WWE's product has been piss poor creatively. Blaming smart fans is a cop out.

 

[pyrusane]

I agreed with some of your points, but just wanted to take this part and show why these worked (perhaps?)



Stone Cold was the Ring Master, so he had a gimmick name, I don't remember Stone Cold Steve Austin, ever being called The Ringmast Steve Austin or Steve Austin the Ring Master. But anyway, if you can't see why that one would have worked, then I'm sorry.

Steve Austin didn't see how it would have worked either, which is why he changed it. And apparently you don't either since instead of trying to explain it yourself, you just tried to seem like your intelligence is so far above everyone else that you can't be bothered to explain. Don't try to sound condescending, it isn't a good look for you.

Rocky Maivia, took his first name and in effect, took on a "nickname" The Rock, not too difficult to see how why nobody ever chanted "husky harris!" at him there is it? What did they chant? "Rocky! Rocky!" Pretty simple stuff here.

What they didn't chant at him was "Flex Kavana! Flex Kavana!" since that was his gimmick/name prior to Rocky Maivia.

Triple H, HHH, Hunter Hearst Helmsley, pretty simple stuff here, his persona changed, his name is pretty much the same wouldn't you agree?

Sure, but see how well it goes over if you go to a live event, wait for HHH to come out, then start chanting "Terra Ryzing!" at him. Cause that was his gimmick prior to Hunter Hearst Helmsley.

Kane was Isaac Yankem and Fake Diesel, I don't remember Isaac Yankem, Fake Diesel was without a mask, Kane was masked. Might be harder to pull off these days, but Kane was very much covered up and could have been anyone.

The fact that you don't remember Isaac Yankem explains a lot. The fact that you seem to believe that not remembering him makes the example irrelevant explains even more. You seem to think that if you don't remember it it isn't important, which is a level of self-aggrandizing that staggers the mind. It's not all about you...

Big Show was Paul White, not excactly difficult to see why that worked, he's still the same guy pretty much. Why not call the biggest guy, "The Big Show"? It's a Nickname, much like The Rock, much like HHH, John Cena could even just be called "Cena" if they wanted, doesn't change much at all.

Actually, Big Show was The Giant, the son of Andre the Giant, before being just Paul Wight and then finally the Big Show. Again, Big Show doesn't come out to chants of "Giant! Giant!" even though theoretically he could, seeing as how he still calls himself a giant these days.

billy gunn was a smoking gunn before he was an assman. He was still the same guy though, this isn't like he was called Billy Gunn, then came out and called himself Arnold Armendinger is it?

No, but he did go to TNA and call himself Kip James, and then later Cute Kip...

I think you really explained the true problem with this post, though. The problem isn't the fact that WWE (or TNA for that matter) sometimes needs to repackage people to get them over. The problem is when smarks like you refuse to let them get over with the new gimmick. You basically said it yourself with this whole notion of "If I don't remember it then it doesn't matter". What you are ultimately saying there is that a repackage is fine as long as you have forgotten about the old gimmick or never knew about it, but if you do remember it then there is no way you are going to let it get over if you have anything to say about. And that is why those assholes chanting "Husky Harris" annoyed the hell out of me, because although Rotundo has done a hell of a good job creating this outstanding character, there are people like you who go out of their way to ruin it for everyone just so you can show that you remember the old gimmick. This isn't the fault of the WWE for not "getting it right the first time," it's the fault of your parents for not "getting it right the first time".

 

[multiverseman.com]

People can chant what they want. Thing is, the nature of the business is set up such that you have to expect things like that to happen. You can't rely on a live crowd as part of your package, want them to be noisy and vocal, then expect they won't try and be "smart" about the product. You get what you create.