The "No-Sell"

[laodaron]

So, I'm going through the WWE Youtube channel, and I see that Zac Ryder has this Ice 3 thing, and he lists his favorite matches. I see Goldberg/Flair v. Hogan/Nash. I think, hey, that's some fun nostalgia there. Wrong.

This match is loaded with no-sells. I mean, not the Hogan Hulking Up stuff. Not the Ultimate Warrior Warrior stuff. Not the Undertaker Rising from the Dead. I'm talking kick - no sell. punch - no sell. suplex - no sell. clothesline - no sell. It was terrible.

Anyway, this got me thinking...honestly, the no-sell has to be, at least to me, some of the cheesiest and most poorly booked wrestling to date. I don't mind the stuff that's a part of the character, like Hulking Up, I realize that was a part of that cartoon age wrestling. But, the Bill Goldberg no-sell crap was just really really lazy booking to me.

Anyway, I just thought I'd open a thread on it, in case anyone else has opinions on it.

Oh, and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KznKGQY1dWo&list=PL2871E09169807E89&index=2

 

[ABMorales787]

I don't think you got the point of the match. The no-selling drove the fans to a frenzy every time. There was a huge pop for Goldberg no-selling Hogan's slam.

What built up Goldberg to be the major star he got to be back then was the toughness he perceived when wrestling. And part of that was built on him taking a lot of punishment without flinching much from it. He did his selling pretty well for the tough guy he's supposed to play.

No-selling can be a great tool to get a crowd going when you are babyface. And Goldberg did that well enough.

 

[laodaron]

No, when I watched it live, I'm certain I marked out like crazy. I would have been 17, watching in high school, and it's great. The problem I have is that when it comes down to it, no-selling has no future when it's booked. For example, in that match, it's accepted that Goldberg and Hogan were going to no sell each other, one more superhuman than the next. What happens the next time the two are in the ring? Or the third time? Or 10 times down the road when the two are are in the ring?

What I'm trying to say is that it's a cheap pop tool, and that there is just no long term gain to no-selling like they did. But maybe that's just cynical 25 year pro-wrestling fan me.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

It's always been done in every style. On the indies they no sell goddamn headdrops all the time. I think it looks stupid when it's done all the time. Some guys can do it well. Sting vs Flair at Clash of the Champions it was done well. Early on in the match when the babyface has momentum or later on when the crowd is really behind him. The logic is that the adrenaline blocks out the pain. It's a real think. I was in a car accident and kicked my door open to get out. Something I doubt I'd be able to do had I not been super juiced up with adrenaline.

No selling, much like anything else (kicking out of finishers, shoot interviews, hardcore moves, cussing, blood, basically any tactic they used to get attention in the tude era) all has to be done in moderation and in certain situations. If you do it all the time, it loses it's appeal and you have to keep raising the bar until it's just ridiculous.

 

[WWFan79]

No, when I watched it live, I'm certain I marked out like crazy. I would have been 17, watching in high school, and it's great. The problem I have is that when it comes down to it, no-selling has no future when it's booked. For example, in that match, it's accepted that Goldberg and Hogan were going to no sell each other, one more superhuman than the next. What happens the next time the two are in the ring? Or the third time? Or 10 times down the road when the two are are in the ring?

What I'm trying to say is that it's a cheap pop tool, and that there is just no long term gain to no-selling like they did. But maybe that's just cynical 25 year pro-wrestling fan me.

I think the 'Over' sell that Hogan and Warrior did made it more epic.

Only the power of each man could wear each other out like that. They generally could come back from other opponents, but only the few super strong was able to break through each other's armor.

Warrior at the end of WM 6 was barely moving. Maybe it was overboard, but it has more of an impact. The no-sell really takes out the believably and makes each other look weak bc it seems like they can't even hurt anyone else (this guys for others as well.. it's not whether you can take it that makes you tough.. it's how hard you can dish it out).

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I've seen much worse instances of no-selling than that particular match. Goldberg was booked as a monster, and that was standard monster work in that match. The no-selling was right at the beginning of the match, so it made some sense as well. I didn't see anything there that I didn't see The Road Warriors, or Nikita Koloff, or Lex Luger, or Sting, or any number of guys do before. It's always good for a crowd reaction and I still think is a fundamental part of storytelling in the ring. What gets obnoxious is no-selling finishers constantly, over and over. Or just as bad matches that feature multiple finishers being hit over and over with kickouts every time, just to build some sort of false suspense. This has been a problem for me with most of the Undertaker's WM matches in the past few years, for example.

 

[Potatogod93]

I haven't seen this match so I cannot comment directly on this, but I could see the no-sell being used more so nowadays. Espicially with a character like Daniel Bryan. Batista is booking DB as an everyman.... i say sell that. When DB does a gut punch or clothesline (not the running one he does you have to sell that) but a normal clothesline to Batista or Kane why are they bumping for that. DB is giving up 60 pounds to those guys certain moves, espicially earlier in the match, shouldn't have the same effect. In the Raw match DB was pushing batista off him from a headlock, that shouldn't happen. Sell the headlock more Batista should no-sell the push and do other things to get out.

I dont' think this would make DB look weak either. It would make Batista look like the monster he is and force DB to work an arm or leg and actually out wrestle them, which what he ended up doing for a reason i don't know since his power and brawling moves were more efficient than Batista's too. It would make both guys look stronger in there respective areas (power+Brawler=Batista, Techinician+speed=DB) and give a better match.

I think otherwise you make your monsters look much more weaker and beatable. If Batista is getting a push either way atleast make him look powerful.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Usually the powerful face no sells early on which makes the ensuing match more interesting as you watch to see how exactly the heel is going to get the advantage. Flair was a master at this, utilizing a lot of no selling by his opponents early in matches and them working the crowd up by constantly ducking and dodging his opponent, usually until said opponent finally gets him (often outside the ring) and kicks his a@# for several minutes to the delight of the crowd.

The one thing I think is over done is no selling each other's signature move. Rock-Austin did this repeatedly, each one hitting trademark moves and finishers without getting a finish. It takes away the perception of that move being something special , you wait for a Stunner or a Rock Bottom, then you get it and all you get is a two count ? It looks ridiculous after awhile.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

I haven't seen this match so I cannot comment directly on this, but I could see the no-sell being used more so nowadays. Espicially with a character like Daniel Bryan. Batista is booking DB as an everyman.... i say sell that. When DB does a gut punch or clothesline (not the running one he does you have to sell that) but a normal clothesline to Batista or Kane why are they bumping for that. DB is giving up 60 pounds to those guys certain moves, espicially earlier in the match, shouldn't have the same effect. In the Raw match DB was pushing batista off him from a headlock, that shouldn't happen. Sell the headlock more Batista should no-sell the push and do other things to get out.

I dont' think this would make DB look weak either. It would make Batista look like the monster he is and force DB to work an arm or leg and actually out wrestle them, which what he ended up doing for a reason i don't know since his power and brawling moves were more efficient than Batista's too. It would make both guys look stronger in there respective areas (power+Brawler=Batista, Techinician+speed=DB) and give a better match.

I think otherwise you make your monsters look much more weaker and beatable. If Batista is getting a push either way atleast make him look powerful.

You aren't going to see this in a tag match on raw, maybe in the future if they ME a show you could. I could actually see them doing that. Batista doesn't have the steam to go as long as Bryan would normally go but if you can have a back and forth with Batista doing basic rest holds to gather himself it could make for a much better match. And Bryan selling these moves better would make Batista more beastly, and tell a better story overall.

 

[lil steroid meat]

It should be used sparingly.

For it to be used in every match for a Goldberg type character is lazy booking for a cheap pop.

But if it's an intense feud where one guy is so far gone with adrenaline (kayfabe), then it works.