The Kayfabe Hypocrisy

[justinept]

Bret Hart recently commented negatively about the WWE's Be A Star Program as relates to Stephanie McMahon and Triple H. Said Hart:

You can’t be the heroes of the company and the villains of the company at the exact same time. You want to give yourself a pat on the back for Make-a-Wish Foundation and all this stuff? Then quit trying to be the heels of the company at the same time.

Lots of people on this site have criticized Hart for failing to understand that it isn't 1984 anymore - and that there's no way for the WWE to make any meaningful portion of their audience believe that wrestling is real. These people have no problem when Stephanie McMahon speaks about the WWE's anti-bullying campaign despite the fact that she's played a bully on TV for most of the past 16 years. After all, we're smart enough to separate the fiction from the reality. These same people have no issue when Triple H shows up on NXT three days after taking a beating from Roman Reigns - a beating that was severe enough to keep him off Raw for 6 weeks. After all, it's a different brand...

But what people are forgetting in their arguments is that the McMahon family has been adamant over the years that the roster maintains kayfabe off screen.

We all know that The Undertaker isn't really a dead guy... but when images of his wedding surfaced online, the WWE was reportedly furious and tried to scrub those images from the internet.

We all knew that Serena Deeb wasn't a straight-edge wrestler with a history of drug abuse. But that didn't stop the WWE from firing her for being photographed at a bar.

And most recently, we all knew that Rusev and Lana were still dating despite their on-screen split. But what happened when Lana posted photos of her engagement ring on Twitter a few weeks ago? Aside from losing her push, she was thrown back together with Rusev immediately because the WWE couldn't understand how the crowd would react to Lana feuding with Rusev when everyone knew they were engaged...

So here's the point. Why are we so easily writing off Hart's comments as antiquated when the WWE seemingly exhibits that same line of thinking for every non McMahon in the company? If the McMahons are going to continue to make their characters a focal point of WWE programming, isn't their failure to honor kayfabe considerably more detrimental to the on-screen product than someone like Lana doing the same?

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

Lol, someone makes a thread about this once a month and each time it is more stupid than the last.

On-screen characters have NOTHING to do with off-screen characters. Why can't people understand this?

 

[justinept]

Lol, someone makes a thread about this once a month and each time it is more stupid than the last.

On-screen characters have NOTHING to do with off-screen characters. Why can't people understand this?

Jesus Christ. This is what's known as a 'straw-man argument.' At no point in that comment did I suggest that we don't know the difference between on-screen characters and the people that portray them. But if it makes you feel smart to respond to an issue that wasn't mentioned, then go right ahead ---

But if you want to actually know what you're responding to - I'll try to lay it out in simpler terms.

The McMahon family doesn't see a problem with breaking kayfabe off camera if it affects them specifically. But when a wrestler breaks kayfabe off camera, they're severely punished by the McMahon family. Why are you blinded by that hypocrisy?

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

Then why do the McMahon's continue to punish wrestlers for being out of character off camera?

WWE fired Serena Deeb because she was an alcoholic who had issues.

Undertaker, Punished? Pfft I'll leave this to Aquamann

Rusev and Lana made sense considering it was plastered all over the celeb gossip news and the storyline with Ziggler wasn't going anywhere.

 

[justinept]

Deeb was fired for being an alcoholic? Holy hell - half the roster would be gone if that were the standard.

Never said The Undertaker was punished. I only said that the WWE tried to have the photos completely wiped from the internet because they didn't want him to be seen out of character. You might remember this better if you weren't 15 when it happened.

And Lana is still being punished for announcing her engagement on Instagram. You're seriously blinded if you think otherwise. She went from being on TV every week to barely being seen since...

 

[BaconBits]

OP's username checks out.

The WWE doesn't really give a fuck about kayfabe anymore. I mean, you have Breaking Ground, Total Divas, Table for Three and the new one Road Trip or whatever on their network that shit all over it. Performers are punished for various reasons and the punishment is equal their drawing power, and it's been that way forever. Oh, an stop believing everything you read in dirt sheets. They are written by ******s for ******s.

 

[Ol'Canucklehead]

There is a bit of a hypocrisy. Unlike others I do see your point. The McMahons do seem to be above the rules in this regard and it could help story lines if they were a little more kayfabe. The one problem though is that now that they are publicly traded they are also the faces of the business side and they certainly cannot play the evil card in that role. The wrestlers however should be held to that standard. People really thought Taker was dead, Ted DiBiase was super rich and The Headshrinkers ate bars of deodorant. lol I also think that if wrestlers stayed in character more often it would show on screen and would seem less like acting. But oh well, the illusion of reality we had in our childhood can never be duplicated and I don't think it ever will.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

We all know that The Undertaker isn't really a dead guy... but when images of his wedding surfaced online, the WWE was reportedly furious and tried to scrub those images from the internet.

Reportedly. Were the really furious about the situation? Did they really care? This is just a report, which was probably not true.

We all knew that Serena Deeb wasn't a straight-edge wrestler with a history of drug abuse. But that didn't stop the WWE from firing her for being photographed at a bar.

She got fired because she was a heavy alcoholic, and she was a terrible wrestler.

And most recently, we all knew that Rusev and Lana were still dating despite their on-screen split. But what happened when Lana posted photos of her engagement ring on Twitter a few weeks ago? Aside from losing her push, she was thrown back together with Rusev immediately because the WWE couldn't understand how the crowd would react to Lana feuding with Rusev when everyone knew they were engaged...

Several wrestlers lose their push. Dolph Ziggler, a former World Champion, lost to Heath Slater. Damien Sandow is never on TV. I highly doubt she was punished for that.

 

[LionheartY2J]

In Bret's defense, in his day, when you were a heel, you were a hell; when you were a face, you were a face. And when someone did switch over, it was either done slowly and gradually, or it was a major moment. These days, there's so much back and forthing, and so random, who can keep track anymore.

Look at Big Show and Mark Henry; these guys literally switch by the week. And the Undertaker/Brock Lesner feud; even they seemed confused by who was who in that one. And what's worse is that they expect the fans to immediately cheer for the face when they say so. Examples of recent heel to face turns that happened suddenly and randomly and the fans didn't care either way were Sheamus, Del Rio, Big E, and Swagger. It's as though they've been desperate for the next big thing and trying to hard to make it happen.

And I get that this has little to do with off camera roles. It's more of a rant on how there's not the kind of consistency as there was in Bret's day.

 

[Azane]

The "reportedly furious" is called journalism.

Journalism is called Click Bait on modern websites.

The Reportedly part takes away journalistic responsibility, so that you can say whatever you want to get clicks and just say the report was wrong when it's called out.

People aren't fired for 1 or 2 small things, the people getting fired, are either on slate to be dropped already, or did something majorly wrong like posting Nazi Ponies.

Breaking Kayfabe isn't a huge deal, unless it's breaking the story. Lana's engagement broke the Russev Dolph feud and forced them to rewrite the script and change events, Stephanie inspiring little girls or Randy Orton going to a Make a Wish case as a heel don't break the story. Also, Undertaker is a very special case, his character and mystique (LETS IGNORE THE WHOLE BIKER THING), have been there for over 25 years, and he takes the Kayfabe veil very seriously, he's only broken character directly a few times in his career on camera.

The reason why there's no consistency now, is because of Reality and the internet. When Bret Hart wrestled, there were almost never cameras or anything behind the scenes, and anything backstage was intentionally setup for a backstage scene, nowadays, almost every superstar has a twitter, instagram, Facebook, etc... and they did used to get flakk if they broke character on them, but nowadays, WWE only cares that they're posting professionally, not necessarily in character. Total Divas and Breaking Ground use real names behind the ring names, and Breaking ground even focuses on specific characters being written, and performance job reviews, Kayfabe is only important during the main shows and ppvs, but behind the scenes, WWE let's their workers be people.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The "reportedly furious" is called journalism.

Journalism is called Click Bait on modern websites.

The Reportedly part takes away journalistic responsibility, so that you can say whatever you want to get clicks and just say the report was wrong when it's called out.

People aren't fired for 1 or 2 small things, the people getting fired, are either on slate to be dropped already, or did something majorly wrong like posting Nazi Ponies.

Breaking Kayfabe isn't a huge deal, unless it's breaking the story. Lana's engagement broke the Russev Dolph feud and forced them to rewrite the script and change events, Stephanie inspiring little girls or Randy Orton going to a Make a Wish case as a heel don't break the story. Also, Undertaker is a very special case, his character and mystique (LETS IGNORE THE WHOLE BIKER THING), have been there for over 25 years, and he takes the Kayfabe veil very seriously, he's only broken character directly a few times in his career on camera.

The reason why there's no consistency now, is because of Reality and the internet. When Bret Hart wrestled, there were almost never cameras or anything behind the scenes, and anything backstage was intentionally setup for a backstage scene, nowadays, almost every superstar has a twitter, instagram, Facebook, etc... and they did used to get flakk if they broke character on them, but nowadays, WWE only cares that they're posting professionally, not necessarily in character. Total Divas and Breaking Ground use real names behind the ring names, and Breaking ground even focuses on specific characters being written, and performance job reviews, Kayfabe is only important during the main shows and ppvs, but behind the scenes, WWE let's their workers be people.

This ^^^^^^^^^

As much as I respect Bret Hart, he sounds too much like one of these old veterans espousing about how things were back in his day without taking into account how much society has changed and how technology has helped bring about such changes.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Randy Orton behaved as a cold blooded sociopath in real life. Say someone asks him for an autograph and he threatens to smack the guy in the face or makes some sort of rude, maybe sexual, comment about his girlfriend, what do you think would happen? Well, the most likely thing that would happen is that this guy would take to social media blasting Orton, blasting WWE, demanding that Orton should be fired, after explaining in detail what happened. Then, here comes the bullshit bandwagon that's such a huge part of social media in which so many will side with the guy without even taking into consideration if he's even telling the truth or not. If he is, then they're on board, if he's not, they can still say whatever they want to anyhow without any real fear of reprisal.

Another possibility that could come about, albeit one far less likely, is that Orton winds up getting a face full of pepper spray or this guy pulls out a glock and uses it to change Orton's outlook on life, for the remaining few seconds of it.

The reason why wrestling companies don't worry about kayfabe so much is because the internet has essentially rendered kayfabe obsolete. Hell, even if they did, here would come the "WWE gets off on insulting our intelligence" crap that pops up every so often.

 

[Blade]

Lol, someone makes a thread about this once a month and each time it is more stupid than the last.

On-screen characters have NOTHING to do with off-screen characters. Why can't people understand this?

Except both WWE's televised programming and the Be A Star campaign are aimed at kids more so than adults. In that regards, yes, Stephanie and others should be more consistent. They're trying to do something good, but in a way that could send a mixed signals to children who don't understand the concept of kayfabe, which is most kids who are 8 and under.

I know for a fact you weren't intelligent enough at that age to understand the distinction. It shouldn't be expected of any young kid.

 

[Shouldabeenawrestler]

Completely off topic but seeing as I don't have privileges to post my own thread. Watching AJs debuting matches this week and it being the 'reality era'; why aren't his accomplishments in TNA acknowledged considering they aren't deemed competitors?

 

[harrythem]

This is the company that makes the rank and file wrestlers take pay-cuts, but doesn't even think to ask the multi-millionaire part-timers take one cent less...This is the company that always goes on about the WWE family buy has released girls for getting pregnant. This is the company that bangs on about free-speech, then takes away signs they don't like.

Vince is a complete nutter, why should there be any consistency with kayfabe if there's none in the actual running of the company.

I've always loved the whole "they wrestlers are independent contractors" but there very few instances when they get their lawyers involved for the blatant health & safety violations alone!

 

[Headman]

I'm not even remotely sad that Allen Rickman is dead because he tried to kill Bruce Willis back in the 80's. I hope Bret Hart would read this and see how stupid my statement sounds. But yes, there is a part of me who agrees with Bret only that I grew up in a time when the heels and the baby faces didn't usually travel together or come out of character when you happened to run into one of them at the Seven Eleven. I miss Kayfabe, but it's dead. Thank the mafia-like state athletic commissions for that. With that said, heels on their way to the ring for their matches should not wear pink t-shirts because that's the character's time.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I'm glad Bret Hart thinks wrestling kayfabe is more important than charity and service to the community. The man has his priorities very straight.

Hopefully the next time Bray Wyatt is walking past a burning school with children inside he maintains kayfabe and runs to the gas station for more gasoline and some hot dogs to cook. Wouldn't want him to lose his heat (pun intended) by being a hero and saving some lives.

That being said, the commercials during Raw for the charity and service stuff does irk me a little and the Network/E shows advertising kind of bother me a little more. Not so much that they are on the Network because I can avoid them if I want but because they are advertised during Raw and it damages my perception and suspension of disbelief.

It is still not worth getting all Bret Hart about it though but that is who he has become.

 

[Navi]

Completely off topic but seeing as I don't have privileges to post my own thread. Watching AJs debuting matches this week and it being the 'reality era'; why aren't his accomplishments in TNA acknowledged considering they aren't deemed competitors?

I do believe that JBL or Cole can't remember which one or both did give him quite a welcome. They called him the "hottest free agent in wrestling today" and a former world champion among other things. They would never mention TNA, they never have and that's okay. At least they didn't bury him like they did the Ascension.

 

[hbkhhh44]

TS I see ur point but I think those events still fit within the world of kayfabe. The authority always claim to want to do what's best for business and for the fans then screw them over. In other words part of their characters are being huge hypocrites. Trying to look great in the public eye while doing shady things. So I don't even see it as breaking kayfabe.

 

[justinept]

I'm glad Bret Hart thinks wrestling kayfabe is more important than charity and service to the community. The man has his priorities very straight.

I think Hart's complaints are more in line with the idea that if the McMahons want to be portrayed as heroes off screen, then their characters should be seen as heroes on screen. And if they want to be villainous on screen, then they should send someone else to do these appearances. IMO, his complaints could be solved if Linda McMahon just came back to the company. She was kind of the go-to person for stuff like this before leaving.

I do want to say this one last time, though... I have no issue with Stephanie McMahon acting like a bully on Monday night and then showing up to anti-bullying event on Tuesday morning. I think we all know there's a difference between the real-life Stephanie McMahon and the character she plays on TV. My issue remains that the WWE has, as recently as a month ago, punished a performer for 'mucking up a story line' by breaking kayfabe off screen.

Azane commented that breaking kayfabe isn't a problem - unless it breaks the story. He argues that Lana broke the story be admitting that she was engaged to the wrestler she was feuding with.

Ok - I'll buy that. But where was the punishment at back in 2002 when Stephanie and Triple H were feuding on-screen while acknowledging their real-life engagement off-screen? Where was the punishment back in 2006 when Triple H and Vince were feuding on-camera while acknowledging that Triple H was the father of Vince's granddaughter off-camera? That's the hypocrisy here... The McMahons break kayfabe all the time while punishing others for doing the same damn thing.

Some have pointed out that they run the company and can do what they want. That's true. Others point out that bigger stars are given more leeway in regard to this. And that's also true. I'm not discounting that. I'm just calling it out for what it is - it's textbook hypocrisy.

 

[WorstWrestlingExcrement]

Jesus Christ. This is what's known as a 'straw-man argument.' At no point in that comment did I suggest that we don't know the difference between on-screen characters and the people that portray them. But if it makes you feel smart to respond to an issue that wasn't mentioned, then go right ahead ---

But if you want to actually know what you're responding to - I'll try to lay it out in simpler terms.

The McMahon family doesn't see a problem with breaking kayfabe off camera if it affects them specifically. But when a wrestler breaks kayfabe off camera, they're severely punished by the McMahon family. Why are you blinded by that hypocrisy?

Because wwe is not considered wrestling a publicly traded, privately controlled entertainment company that deals primarily in sports entertainment comical wrestling, with major revenue sources also coming from film, music, product licensing and direct product sales. And Bret Hart has a valid point so I don t know why you and everyone else is shitting on Bret Hart for ? He has a valid point cause if you are a heel you shouldn t be attending these charity events make a wish and anti bullying etc
I recall Dixie Carter maintained her kayfabe and didn t show up at her charitable events and let others handle it that is what Steffy and HHH should be doing besides look like total jokers and fools! Who can even take these fools serious here ? vince was a fool who thought he can create WBF and XFL which both were unsuccessful launches! Here is a company that had his wife Linda Mc Mahon run for US senator how much of a joke can you be ?

 

[LDubz]

Bret Hart's opinions on this are a good 30 years old, as others have said.

I don't see how it's hypocrisy at all, do people who honestly think this, think the same of another actor on a TV show that plays a villain, but does charitable work? Come on.

If kids can't understand that what they are watching on TV is not real, it's a dramatisation, then they should not be watching.

That said, I completely agree with the charitable stuff etc. during Raw, that it hurts the suspension of disbelief. These are things that should be done before and after the show, just to protect the integrity of the dramatisation they are presenting.

Kayfabe is dead and WWE is caring less and less about the face/heel dynamic, it is largely dead as far as the old school form of it goes. It's about characters and the stories and getting a reaction (which WWE sees as the most important thing for the performers!), as long as they are doing that then they are succeeding in today's world. Fans are not blindly going to support the faces and boo the heels all in the name of 'kayfabe'. Get over it.

 

[ヒュー　G.　レックション]

I think OP is somewhat right in that there is a double standard between the McMahons and others, but frankly they own the business and they can do what they want in regards to rules for themselves and talent.

IMO WWE should not cite tweets from talents on Their shows, because then there's almost a standard expected of talents to remain in kayfabe outside of the show, which some appear to do, this is more in line with Bret's view. I'd rather they be consistent and abandon kayfabe on social media and all media appearances

 

[DirtyD79]

Bret actually does have some valid points in all this. One thing he didn't mention is the reason there are no larger than life superstars in wrestling anymore is because we see too much of their lives behind the camera. We see them driving somewhere. We see them going through their relationship drama. We see them getting pedicures and haircuts or ordering pizza. We see them watching TV, playing video games, or working out. You know normal everyday stuff plenty of regular everyday schmoes do. As a result we no longer see them as superstars, we see them as regular everday schmoes. Who wants to watch a bunch of regular everyday schmoes? It should be a treat to see these people whether it's on TV, at a live show, or at an autograph signing. Wrestlers should have a presence about them. They shouldn't be like someone you see everyday.

If WWE just has to show their wrestlers outside the ring then They should be interesting. We should see them doing interesting things like going to the Playboy Mansion, hitting a casino, hanging in exclusive nightclubs, or driving exotic cars. They should act like stars.

 

[LDubz]

Or fans that are actually bothered by this could exercise some self control and not try to involve themselves in all the backstage stuff.

Can't really have it both ways.

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

The problem is that WWE is inconsistent when it comes to kayfabe, so it becomes harder and harder for the viewer to suspend their disbelief. Obviously we all know it's a work, but when you're watching a match you like to get sucked into it thinking it's real. Its hard for that to happen when during the commercial break they show an ad for "Table for 3" where faces and heels are eating together or PSA's with the talent all hanging out together.

Just last week on their youtube account they showed one video with the League of Nations beating the hell out of Reigns and the next video was Reigns in the ring wishing R Truth a happy birthday with the League of Nations laughing and smiling with him. Stuff like that kills everything.

It would be like watching a TV show than during the middle of the show they showed behind the scenes footage of the protagonist actor and antagonist actor being buddy buddy. It would kill your suspension of disbelief.