The InVasion should have started with the Y2J/Benoit VS Austin/HHH Match

[FromTheSouth]

Anyone who has been on here for a while knows that the Y2J/Benoit vs. Austin/HHH tag title match in 2001 is my favorite and truly the greatest match of all the times. This would have been the perfect spot to begin the InVasion.

The biggest complaint about the InVasion is the lack of WCW's star power. Chuck Palumbo and Mark Jindrak are not Goldberg and David Arquette, we get that. WWE's star power was not at its peak either. The Rock was a month late, HHH was injured, Austin was misused, and Y2J used that angle to break out..which will be another post someday.

Imagine that in the middle of this match, the crowd is hot, there's no way Y2J and BNenoit win, but you're hopeful. HHH has just hit Austin with the sledgehammer and Y2J covers... 1, 2, Booker T and Mike Awesome hit the ring and BANG....DQ. The crowd would have been on fire while watching Shane play traffic cop to a beatdown. You turn HHH and Austin face, the WCW are monster heels at that point, PLUS....you get the added benefit of the fact that one night one...the alliance takes out HHH. Now, you have a pissed off team of Y2J, Benoit, and Austin, plus Taker, Kane, and Kurt.

That team of six takes WCW apart until...ECW arrives to even the score a couple of weeks later.

My biggest problem with the InVasion is that they shotgunned all of the Holy Shit moments into like two or three shows over 8 months. If they had spread them out a little, it might have worked better.

If you don't have the names, build them. Don't shoehorn the introduction of RVD into the episode where you introduce Stephanie as the owner of ECW, where you introduce the Alliance. Give RVD his own episode, have them turn a week later. Let Vince try to rally Linda and Steph by making Stepoh the GM of Raw, and then later that night, have Steph abuse her pwoers to benefit ECW...big reveal.

 

[Vanilla Midget]

There was no way of knowing how hot that tag team match was going to be that night. They might not have even had Booker T or any of them backstage, nor could anyone have known Triple H would pull his quad in the match and sit out the invasion.

The invasion was only as good as it was, and would only have possibly been better if they bought the contracts for more of WCW's top talent. Hogan, Nash, Hall, Goldberg, they should have driven a dump truck of money to get Bischoff too. That's the only way it could have been worth a damn. No matter how you would have booked it, it lacked the names people wanted to see invade WWF. They didn't want the WCW Thunder invasion that we got.

 

[Kyphael]

The only thing I took away from your post was... okay, I get WCW had very few homegrown main event stars, but Goldberg and DAVID ARQUETTE? David Arquette is a name synonymous with one of the most ridiculous, if not THE most ridiculous stunts (and that's saying something because there are plenty) WCW ever pulled off. So you're trying to make a point about WWF's InVasion lacking star power, and use David Arquette as an example? That to me lost all credibility, OP. lol I mean, Booker T? DDP? Yeah, they're no Goldberg or Sting, but hell, they were at least actual wrestlers and main eventers in WCW. David Arquette was never, ever, ever going to be considered being used as part of WWE's InVasion angle.

I'll bite, nevertheless...

Many people cite how disappointing the much-awaited, hot-shotted InVasion angle was. Some blame bad booking (stalker DDP anyone?), and others blame the lack of patience to wait for most of the Time Warner contracts to end (Goldberg, Steiner, Nash, Hall, Hogan.)

I blame a little bit of both. It could have started in 2001 with a slow build, but no way in hell should it have had to end in 2001, if anything, at the earliest it could have ended at Wrestlemania X-8. Have WCW and ECW (please, keep them as separate entities, I hated "THE ALLIANCE" name) demolish the WWE throughout 2001 until reinforcements like The Rock returned at Summerslam, and keep Austin on Team WWF, his betrayal made zero sense.

I would have kept WCW and ECW constantly beating on the WWE, while having WCW and ECW PPV themed events throughout, replacing WWE PPV's to show the influence of the invasion. The Royal Rumble of 2002 could have been World War III with two rumble matches; 20 WWF guys, 20 ECW guys, and 20 WCW guys fighting in two separate rumble matches with the winners facing the WWE and WCW Champions at Wrestlemania (winners would have been Triple H and Jericho.)

Come No Way Out, Vince, Shane, Heyman, and Stephanie finally decide to end it all in a winner take all, Team WWF vs. Team WCW & ECW tag team match... cue nWo theme, nWo comes down, with Steiner, and many WCW guys turning on WCW guys and ECW as the nWo demolishes WWF, ECW and WCW. Wrestlemania could have been the blow off or the start of another year-lond angle of the WCW, ECW, and WWF having to band together to fight the nWO, with names like Goldberg, Steiner, etc being used properly.

 

[AJ1981]

The only thing I took away from your post was... okay, I get WCW had very few homegrown main event stars, but Goldberg and DAVID ARQUETTE? David Arquette is a name synonymous with one of the most ridiculous, if not THE most ridiculous stunts (and that's saying something because there are plenty) WCW ever pulled off. So you're trying to make a point about WWF's InVasion lacking star power, and use David Arquette as an example? That to me lost all credibility, OP. lol I mean, Booker T? DDP? Yeah, they're no Goldberg or Sting, but hell, they were at least actual wrestlers and main eventers in WCW. David Arquette was never, ever, ever going to be considered being used as part of WWE's InVasion angle.

The way I read the OP I think they appear to have been trying to use a little humour in their post, they don't appear to have been being serious.

As others have said, it didn't matter when the Invasion began, and this has been covered many times before, it was doomed to failure for several reasons:

1) Lack of WCW main eventer players (Goldberg, Hogan, Hall & Nash etc)
2) Ego - Certain WWF wrestlers refusal to put over WCW talent
3) The Alliance being castrated at Summerslam
4) Too many defections from the WWF, they had to do it due to lack of roster depth on the Alliance side but weakened fan perception of W/ECW

 

[FromTheSouth]

The only thing I took away from your post was... okay, I get WCW had very few homegrown main event stars, but Goldberg and DAVID ARQUETTE? David Arquette is a name synonymous with one of the most ridiculous, if not THE most ridiculous stunts (and that's saying something because there are plenty) WCW ever pulled off. So you're trying to make a point about WWF's InVasion lacking star power, and use David Arquette as an example? That to me lost all credibility, OP. lol I mean, Booker T? DDP? Yeah, they're no Goldberg or Sting, but hell, they were at least actual wrestlers and main eventers in WCW. David Arquette was never, ever, ever going to be considered being used as part of WWE's InVasion angle.

That was a joke.

I'll bite, nevertheless...

Many people cite how disappointing the much-awaited, hot-shotted InVasion angle was. Some blame bad booking (stalker DDP anyone?), and others blame the lack of patience to wait for most of the Time Warner contracts to end (Goldberg, Steiner, Nash, Hall, Hogan.)

I personally would have never even involved Hogan, Hall, or Nash. The nWo was over at that point anyway.

I blame a little bit of both. It could have started in 2001 with a slow build, but no way in hell should it have had to end in 2001, if anything, at the earliest it could have ended at Wrestlemania X-8. Have WCW and ECW (please, keep them as separate entities, I hated "THE ALLIANCE" name) demolish the WWE throughout 2001 until reinforcements like The Rock returned at Summerslam, and keep Austin on Team WWF, his betrayal made zero sense.

I'm OK with this, but how do you keep WCW and ECW separate? Is it a triple threat fight for the soul of wrestling?

I would have kept WCW and ECW constantly beating on the WWE, while having WCW and ECW PPV themed events throughout, replacing WWE PPV's to show the influence of the invasion. The Royal Rumble of 2002 could have been World War III with two rumble matches; 20 WWF guys, 20 ECW guys, and 20 WCW guys fighting in two separate rumble matches with the winners facing the WWE and WCW Champions at Wrestlemania (winners would have been Triple H and Jericho.)

Now I want a two ring, 60 man Royal Rumble every year.

Come No Way Out, Vince, Shane, Heyman, and Stephanie finally decide to end it all in a winner take all, Team WWF vs. Team WCW & ECW tag team match... cue nWo theme, nWo comes down, with Steiner, and many WCW guys turning on WCW guys and ECW as the nWo demolishes WWF, ECW and WCW. Wrestlemania could have been the blow off or the start of another year-lond angle of the WCW, ECW, and WWF having to band together to fight the nWO, with names like Goldberg, Steiner, etc being used properly.

Good idea, but now you've basically ignored all the titles for two years. You've turned them into props for "capture the flag." What's the end game that brings back individual legitimacy to World Champions? Do you have a brandsplit and two titles?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

They should have just kept them separate with Shane Mcmahon running WCW until all the time-warner contract shenanigans were over, and then done a proper invasion/WCW vs WWE angle with the people they should have used for it (most of whom they got eventually anyways).

 

[Kyphael]

Well, I'd have had WCW and ECW still ganging up on WWF, but kept calling ECW guys as such and WCW guys as such. I mean, sure, on occasion they could show cracks in this alliance and have triple threats to keep the angle fresh, but for the most part I would not label them "Alliance" simply for brand recognition.

The titles wouldn't be props, the WWF and WCW World titles would still be defended at Wrestlemania and most pay per views, as always, the only difference is it would have been amid the conflict of the InVasion. For example, Triple H returns from his quad injury, says he wants the WCW title, a title he's never won, and doesn't care which WCW jack off has it, because he's entering WWIII and he's walking out with the shot to win that title at Wrestlemania X-8.

Title matches and brand supremacy matches would still occur as normal. The brand split would have happened eventually after the angle's end, but the WCW title would have had to be re-named the World title, unless WCW would have won the angle, and Shane re-named SmackDown Thursday Night Nitro and hired Bischoff to be the GM. lol Um...

 

[EastCoastFan]

When Jim Cornette and Vince Russo each did their Guest Booker DVD's on re-booking the InVasion, one of the few things they had in common was the realization that the guys the WWF acquired when they purchased WCW were not big enough names to spear-head a WCW Invasion.

Both suggested that Vince give the holdouts what they were making in WCW for one year, just to get them in the door. Cornette pointed out many of the things Vince has thrown away money on over the years (like the WBF and the XFL) and said if he had spent the money to get the top WCW guys, he would have more than made it back in PPV buys. Russo said he understood why Vince only offered 50 cents on the dollar to buy out the top WCW guys, but he should have realized he couldn't do the Invasion without them.

The original plan was for WCW to be its own brand, but those plans went to hell with the WCW Re-launch match. Booker T and Buff Bagwell were not big enough names to get people interested, plus Buff blowing up and using a lot of rest holds in what needed to be a 5-star match killed any interest in it (Buff blames his poor performance on Shane Helms clobbering him with a frozen water bottle beforehand, but no one else has mentioned this). It also didn't help that Pat Patterson, the road agent assigned to the match, didn't know anything about either of them and didn't know how to help them put together a match. Worst of all, they did it in Tacoma, Washington, where WCW had little or no presence. WrestleCrap pointed out that if they had just waited ONE WEEK, the Re-launch match would have taken place in Atlanta, WCW's home town, where they would have at least had a more enthusiastic audience to work with.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

The Invasion was as good as it could be with the current names WWE had from WCW. And you want WWE to buy out contracts?. Contracts from names like Hogan and Goldberg? God knows how much they would have payed to get those damn contracts. WWE was red hot at that time and they didn't need those contracts.

I see the idea of WWE keeping WCW still active, being ran by Shane McMahon. You think that would get names like the NWO and Hogan and Goldberg? Nope. Those contracts belonged to AOL and in my understanding, when WWE bought WCW, those contracts were DLC, which means that even if WWE had kept WCW running, those names still wouldn't have appeared on the show. So it accomplishes nothing.

Yeah, it's a great fantasy bookers scenario, but it's not possible. The Invasion angle ends with only one possible outcome, WWF wins. You think that even if they had waited 1 year to get Hogan and WCW or even Goldberg, those names would want to be a part of this angle? You think Hogan and Goldberg would accept to be on the losing side of WCW? Sure, you can turn Hogan face and have him join the WWF. Then who's left to lead the Invaders? Problably Austin again, because you simply you can't have Hogan, Austin and Rock in the same side. Too overpowered. Would Austin accept to be on the losing side while Hogan was on the winning side? Hell no.

Would Goldberg even accept to be booked as a heel and lose in his debut year in the WWE? Hell no. Even Sting didn't want a part in this.

It's as simple as that. You can't have a WCW vs WWF angle with all those names involved, due to the huge egos guys like Hogan, Goldberg and Austin had. Also had you had delayed this for a year, it's not as hot and it would sell that good. And judging by the way things were, even if you had delayed it and had Hogan in it (no way Goldberg becomes a part of this), Austin would still walk out.

So the way things went down, it was the best way things could have gone down. And it was great TV.

 

[Kyphael]

Goldberg could have joined Team WCW after nWo laid waste to Teams WWF, WCW and ECW at No Way Out.

Wrestlemania X-8 could have been Team WWF/WCW/ECW: Austin, Rock, Goldberg, DDP, and Rob Van Dam vs. Team nWo: Hogan, Hall, Nash, The Giant (Big Show) and Scott Steiner. I'm sure Hogan would have had no issue with Rock pinning him, or hell, Hall or Giant could have taken the pin and Hogan turned on the nWo.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

The Invasion was as good as it could be with the current names WWE had from WCW. And you want WWE to buy out contracts?. Contracts from names like Hogan and Goldberg? God knows how much they would have payed to get those damn contracts. WWE was red hot at that time and they didn't need those contracts.

Actually the numbers of RAW was starting to slide already even before WMX-Seven. RAW was doing 6,7, and 8 ratings a year before and by early 2001 it was doing high 4's.

For contracts. I honestly believe that if Vince didn't spend so much on the XFL he could have bought the contracts of 2 or 3 big names no problems there. A combination of Goldberg, Bishoff, Hogan, Nash, Hall, Sting, Luger, or Flair would have gone a long way to help the Invasion Angle.

The WCW/ECW Invasion already had Page, Booker T, RVD, and Heyman. Not exactly unknowns and adding those 2 or 3 more would have made the WCW/ECW Invasion roster on equal footing.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

Actually the numbers of RAW was starting to slide already even before WMX-Seven. RAW was doing 6,7, and 8 ratings a year before and by early 2001 it was doing high 4's.

For contracts. I honestly believe that if Vince didn't spend so much on the XFL he could have bought the contracts of 2 or 3 big names no problems there. A combination of Goldberg, Bishoff, Hogan, Nash, Hall, Sting, Luger, or Flair would have gone a long way to help the Invasion Angle.

The WCW/ECW Invasion already had Page, Booker T, RVD, and Heyman. Not exactly unknowns and adding those 2 or 3 more would have made the WCW/ECW Invasion roster on equal footing.

Yeah I agree, but read my full post. Even if WWE had Hogan and Goldberg then other problems would have surfaced, like Hogan and Austin being too stubborn to be on the losing side, if the other would be on the winning. Fantasy booking is great. And I'd love to see that Invasion happen instead of the one we got, but back then it was tough to deal with the top names, because everyone wanted to be on top.