The Great Muta: Overrated or Underrated?

[It's...Baylariat!]

This is one that will stir the pot quite a bit. Many fans, including myself, used to think the Great Muta was all that when it comes to Japanese wrestling. Then I'd watch some other Japanese wrestlers and find out that the Great Muta wasn't all he was cracked up to be. He's great and many in Japan consider him an icon, but his rep in the States has been skewed by his appearances in WCW and his wins over some great competition. Despite that, my feeling is that he's a bit overrated. Average worker, great character, and was innovative. But his matches were only great due to the people in them.

So is Muta overrated or underrated? Let the debate begin.

 

[InfoWarlord]

I think he is slightly overrated. Many of his moves have been copied by American wrestlers and he's been on a bigger stage against better opponents than most Japanese wrestlers. Longevity and the ability to reinvent himself counts for something too. Still he has never been my favorites. That said Lyger is even more overrated.

 

[The Dewbliners]

I personally feel Keiji Mutoh is rated fairly accurately. He's one of the most popular workers in Japan, and is extremely influential (along with Hiroshi Hase and Masahiro Chono, collectively known as the Three Musketeers). He innovated the moonsault press, and the Shining Wizard. In the States, he's reached almost cult like status. Say what you will, but he was able to pull five star matches out of the likes of Sting, Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, and yes, even Ernest "The Cat" Miller. Untold legions of both indy workers and guys in the "Big Two" of WWE and TNA cite Muta as an influence for some of their moves.

So, no, I don't think he's overrated or underrated at all. He's right where he should be, under the Hogans, Austins, and Rock's but over the Lugers, Miller's, and Anderson's (Ken, or Arn).

While I'm at it, Liger isn't overrated either, Infowarlord. I think you could do well to go and watch some matches by both he and Muta (ie, the match Liger had with Sloppy Joe at BFG a few years ago.)

 

[TREE24K]

I. for one, cannot even believe this is up for debate. Muta is one of the greatest wrestlers to ever grace the squared circle. His matches with Sting go down as maybe my personal favorite feud. Innovative for his time. Mastered the gimmick he portrayed. And having done all this as strictly a ring persona. No promos. Just a great wrestler.

 

[classicviolence]

Keiji Mutoh is a little overrated especially in his older years. His last couple of title runs and matches left alot to be desired. I watch more puroresu than American pro wrestling in recent years and have watched a lot of Mutoh's current matches. When he dropped the AJPW Triple Crown to Yoshihiro Takayama it was just a bad brawl and didn't put over Takayama the way he was supposed to. Even his encounters with the late Misawa (R.I.P.) and Kenta Kobashi left alot to be desired.

In the late 80's threw the 90's, Mutoh was rated perfectly. All of those matches were just excellent and some of them legendary. Currently he is a shell of his former self. Now its all about KENTA, Hiroshi Tanahashi, Shinsuke Nakamura and Go Shiozaki.

 

[Slyfox's Bitch]

I don't know about everyone else in this thread, but I've never seen a bad or even unexciting Muta match. I've thought all of them were exciting, but maybe it's just cause I really like the solid, realistic Japanese style. He is an icon, and a legend, and he sure does deserve it, but I don't know if I can say he is under or overrated. With that being said, removing all bias, I'm sure he's fairly close to where he should be, maybe just overrated a tad bit. Just a taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad bit.

 

[JDavis328]

Well heres my thought. I love what alex shelly said in the promo hyping kiyoshi about muta. We cant sit here and compare rock or austin to muta because its a different side of the earth. Over in japan muta is a legend and house hold name. He is the rock or the austin or the hulk hogan of japan. His matchs,style,and innovated moves are something of just pure amazing stature. Many people in japan look up to him,have used his moves as a tribute,and has immitated his gimmick as tribute. As for his american legacy,well obviously hes not gonna be as big in the current day due to the fact that hes over in japan. He is more of like someone said a following with the big wrestling marks. His run in wcw though wasnt his only american sucess. He was with nwa and really like others have pointed out put on excellent matchs with the biggest names in the biz from yesterday. Even his wcw run wasnt all bad with him facing sting and teaming with vampiro. And plus he has appeared in some indy feds like ROH a couple years back. People use the shining wizard and moonsault all the time which we can credit to him. Alot of people use the mist and have said its something they picked up from muta as well. He is far from overated in my opinion because his is rated for his matchs,style and influence on the current generation of wrestlers which are all high up there on the scale.

 

[PEP3]

I remember The Great Muta's origninal run(s) in NWA/WCW and, in particular, his feud with Sting. He was interesting and definitely had some great moves, but I also recall thinking he was overrated, even at the time.

Do I think Muta is an incredible athlete who has influenced today's pro wrestling? Absolutely. Do I think he pulled incredible matches from Sting, Arn Anderson and Flair? Yes. Do I think he lived up to whatever hype he was given, even at the time? No.

To accurately judge Muta, I'd think we would need to base our decision making on his contributions across-the-board, most specifically in Japan. That is where he made the greatest and longest-lasting impact. In the U.S., where he competed off-and-on for only a few year, he was mostly a TV title contender. (I'm trying to think of someone in today's current crop of performers to draw a parallel with, but I'm falling short.) All I can say is that his hype generally tended to over-shadow his actual impact, even in '89.

Since Muta couldn't cut a promo at all, his character and heat had to be based either on his mouth-piece (and he had more than one) or his in-ring skills. While his wrestling skills were great, overall he still lacked a little something. To this day, I'm not sure what "it" was, but I was certain then (and still am now) that whatever it might be, it was literally lost in the translation.

 

[PEP3]

JDavis, I sincerely hope people don't credit Muta with the mist gimmick. Maybe he was the first person some saw use it, but I remember The Great Kabuki -- and others -- doing that schtick long before Muta.

 

[Rabies]

in no way is muta overrated, he is the pearl of the orient. he gets the respect from fellow wrestlers as being one the greatest heavyweights in the business and he deserves it. his gimmick is the best with his entrances with the different costumes and masks. its a shame he went bald cause his face paint look was the best. his style of being still and stoic, then exploding with a high impact move. that elbow drop for instance. he has an incredible moveset and an ace in the hole with that mist. different colors for different purposes. makes him seem like a super hero/villain with all sorts of powers. he's a legend and he is recognized as such, it's in his name.