The Fall of the TNA Originals?

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For some time now, TNA has been kind of taking a step back in pushing worthy talents for their major title; the TNA World Heavyweight title. I like that Bully Ray has won the belt and seems to be getting a decent reign thus far, but what about the originals?

Bobby Roode? AJ Styles? James Storm? Austin Aries? When these guys were main eventing, Impact seemed to have more adrenaline and momentum. Each show had great matches and just better stories with these fresh faces taking center stage. Now it seems like TNA is content to give former rejects the title without letting their own guys get another shot. These guys have fallen a lot in the last few months and I cannot fathom why. If Jeff Hardy or Hulk Hogan are supposed to be a glimpse into TNA future for the title, I don't want to see it. Honestly, I do enjoy elements of TNA each and every week. But I do not want to see people from the past dominate what should be a new generation's time to shine. Anyone else feel this way?
 
Great, another "push the originals!" thread. We need this. Screw it, I'll bite.

Here's what happened. In 2010, TNA made a huge investment into their company, hiring many performers who had name recognition from Some Other Company. This is not a criticism, since some people are way too sensitive over that fact. The theory was an old one- veterans with more established names could use their star cachet to bring up TNA's originals. You saw Ric Flair paired up with AJ Styles, Hulk Hogan with Abyss, so on, so forth.

But here's the problem. AJ fell flat as a heel. The audience didn't respond to him one bit- but they were responding to Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, and cohorts. TNA made the mistake of thinking if a little bit of Hogan/Bischoff was good, then having them appear in every other segment must be better. The ratings steadily declined. Responding to this, TNA pulled back the imports for a bit, and went back to the original plan- using established stars like Jeff Hardy to bring performers like Roode and Aries up a notch.

Well, the ratings stayed flat, and although I liked the Roode/Storm saga, it didn't show up in the ratings. Television networks are not patient these days; they demand instant results. Cue the Jeff Hardy show.

There's a saying that every cycle is a response to the previous cycle, and that's absolutely true of TNA's booking. Nothing is working to get the ratings up. (For those of you who say "but what do ratings matter", from the financial end of the company, everything, which means continued investment in TNA. If you don't understand how people can become unwilling to invest in a company, you've gone over the fanboi line, and this post is not for you.) The current heel-driven cycle is a response to Jeff Hardy's face-driven cycle which failed to move the ratings.

So, you'll get to see all those guys come to the surface again. A/8 isn't moving the ratings either, so one Thursday night in about a month or two you're going to see a surprise title change.
 
I think you are overeacting here. Aries and Roode were in the title scene for a long time, and now the attention has switched back to Bully Ray and Jeff Hardy for the time being. That is how wrestling works? You have named 4 people (Aries, Roode, Storm and AJ)...are you saying they should all be fighting for the title all the time?

Don't worry, all 4 will be back in the title mix soon enough. Roode/Aries were the tag-team champions until recently, and AJ has only just come back on to TNA tv a few weeks ago, and he WILL be back in the main event sooner rather than later.

I don't see anything wrong with the way TNA is booking the World Title right now. Bully Ray will get a new challenger soon, as I dont expect Hardy to take the belt off him, and as long as it's not Hogan I will be happy with that. I fully expect AJ to be the guy to take the title off Bully Ray when he gets back in the mix.
 
I don't see the point in going back to this anymore. Roode and Aries had nice main event runs in 2012. AJ Styles, Storm, Daniels and Kaz all have been involved in top storylines. It really doesn't matter though, because people will always find something. There seems to be a never ending desire to link TNA to the old WCW coming from people who probably don't know anything about that time period first hand anyway.
 
Austin Aries had a good run, as X division champion. as world heavyweight champion, he sucked. he's been doing alright in the tag team division with Bobby Roode. maybe Aries should go back to the X division, or at least mid card.

Bobby Roode was a dominating heavyweight champion. he will get there again. he works good as a heel, but right now a heel stable is running TNA. so unless Roode was to turn face it's not his time again yet.

AJ Styles hasn't been main event for awhile now. I think he had a brief time, when he faced Roode while Storm had a concussion.

James Storm. has dropped so far from where he was. I have no idea why. I think if I remember correctly he had that Lockdown match with Roode that he lost. then went away for awhile, came back wanting to win the BFG series, but didn't, and hasn't really been pushed much since. I think he should be getting back there. I'd rather see Storm end up winning the BFG series and taking the title off of Bully instead of AJ. I think it would be more dramatic with Storm hitting Bully with the super kick and then getting the pin.

but why is it that just because you're not a TNA original you can't be main event/world champion? Jeff Hardy absolutely deserves to be in the main event title picture. he's the top seller and incredibly popular, for you know, the TV show that is impact Wrestling.
Kurt Angle is another guy who should be deserving to be in the main event title picture too.
I would even throw the big Matt Morgan (as heel) into the mix.

these "rejects" are much more well known to general wrestling fans than some of the TNA originals, IMO especially Aries. when you're putting on a TV show, that matters.
 
First off, what constitutes being a TNA guy rather than an ex-WWF/e guy? Do people regard Triple H, Steve Austin, Y2J, the Undertaker, Kane etc as anything other than WWF guys despite the fact that they ALL appeared in WCW (and had notable success in some instances)?

As such, Bully Ray is as much a TNA character as "Stone Cold" Steve Austin was a WWF character. Both have some semblance of the former character from their earlier employer but both have progressed this into a new better dynamic. Austin was in WCW for four years as a tag team and a reasonably prominent mid-carder before headin 'up North'. Bully was, basically, a tag specialist for all but a couple months in the 6 years he was in the WWF and he has now been in TNA for 8 years and spent the last three years building up his singles career - I think it's about time people drop the 'ex-WWF' tag, he's paid enough dues to be regarded a TNA guy now!

On the characters listed; all four (along with Kaz and Daniels) feature week in, week out and, as such, could be promoted into the title hunt very quickly... here is an example; Kaz, Daniels and Storm were all attacked by the Aces and Eights last week, there is absolutely no reason why any of the three could not move on from that development to challenging Bully.
 
Frankly, wrestlers like Jeff Hardy & Bully Ray have been able to deliver good ratings for the show. Ratings might not matter to fans as a whole, but they matter to the wrestling company and the network that's airing said wrestling company's television program.

TNA hyped the crap out of the 4/11 episode of Impact Wrestling and were expecting big numbers. The show drew a 0.93 rating with 1.17 million viewers. So the most hyped episode of the year thus far was also the least watched episode of the year. The only segment on the entire show to draw a 1.0 or above was the Full Metal Mayhem match between Hardy & Bully Ray, peaking with a 1.13. The next highest segment on the show featured the Robbie E vs. Rob Terry match at a 0.98. There wasn't any special programming on during that Thursday or anything, people simply just didn't tune in for some reason. Without Hardy & Ray on the show, the ratings quite possibly would have been even worse.

The only TNA Originals who've really been a relevant factor in TNA for most of the past several years are Roode, Storm & Styles. Until his recent return & storyline, Styles had really jus kind of either floated around or been in yet another feud with Daniels since the break up of Fortune. Samoa Joe has been in limbo for years now and it looks like that's where TNA has James Storm camping out right now. Roode is currently back in the tag team picture as are Daniels & Kazarian. Talented guys but they don't really draw. It personally bugs me to see Hogan all over the place on TNA television so frequently. He's not a huge draw for the company but, frankly, he's a bigger draw, most of the time anyhow, than the TNA Originals.

I have a feeling we'll see Styles back in the title picture. I just don't see the BFG Series ending this year without Styles winning it and ultimately taking the strap back. Roode will probably be there at some point as well, as will Austin Aries most likely.
 
Just because someone isn't in the title picture, doesn't mean that they aren't being used right. Look at WWE for example John Cena had not been World Champion in about 2 years, he was still featured and it was no doubt that he was a main event talent.

AJ and Storm is a main event feud. It's not over the title, but both of these guys are legitimate stars in the company and people will tune in to see them.

Aries is not a TNA guy, he came up in ROH for the last 10 years and just recently made it big in TNA. Regardless he and Roode have a pretty good tag team. I can't see the coexisting for to much longer, with the way that they came together and the past that they have against each other.

Hardy is a TNA guy just as much as he is a WWE guy. It's a tossup between he and, Kurt Angle as to who is TNA's biggest draw. Both of these guys have been there for quite a while now.

You need to remember that the company only has 1 title. Everyone can't fight for it all the time. I feel that AJ will be the one to take the belt off of Bully though. Some people say Sting, which I'm totally against even though anything is better than Hogan.
 
It's quite sad IMO, the wrestlers who built TNA are being pushed out of the way for the stars brought in from WCW, WWE, ECW, RoH and anywhere else. TNA needs to focus on those who have been with TNA from the start. I'm Sorry but I think the first thing TNA needs to do is get rid of Jeff Hardy, Why you might ask, he's a drug user, He says he cleaned himself up but i'm waiting for it to happen again. He cleaned himself up years ago then he got taken out of Money in the Bank for WrestleMania cause he was doing drugs again. TNA has an advantage over WWE, they are still considered fresh and they are not PG, Yes I watch WWE but I also watch TNA cause they are different and I like watching guys like AJ, James Storm, Bobbie Rude, the TNA Knockouts though even the knockouts aren't without their WWE influence in wrestlers such as Mickey James, Tara, Gail Kim. This is why I wanna see someone like Madison Rain return and take the knockouts title again. Give these titles to those who truly earned it, not by signing 10 years after TNA Started but those who worked their butts off to make TNA what it is, Hulk Hogan might still be a house hold name but the impact he's had in TNA is not as big as he had in WWE, As much as I hate to say this too Sting isn't making a huge difference, Kurt Angle is not as well. Jeff Hardy is making the company some money but I still think a drug user as champion is just wrong. Chavo Gurrero IMO only is where he is in TNA right now cause of his last name. Without Eddie he couldn't hold his spot in WWE. Sorry if this seems like attacks on TNA stars but this is more for I wanna see these talents take a back seat to the real starts and originals of TNA. I wanna see these stars at the top, We have already seen the WWE rejects at the top.
 
For some time now, TNA has been kind of taking a step back in pushing worthy talents for their major title; the TNA World Heavyweight title. I like that Bully Ray has won the belt and seems to be getting a decent reign thus far, but what about the originals?

Bobby Roode? AJ Styles? James Storm? Austin Aries? When these guys were main eventing, Impact seemed to have more adrenaline and momentum. Each show had great matches and just better stories with these fresh faces taking center stage. Now it seems like TNA is content to give former rejects the title without letting their own guys get another shot. These guys have fallen a lot in the last few months and I cannot fathom why. If Jeff Hardy or Hulk Hogan are supposed to be a glimpse into TNA future for the title, I don't want to see it. Honestly, I do enjoy elements of TNA each and every week. But I do not want to see people from the past dominate what should be a new generation's time to shine. Anyone else feel this way?

You must also remember that the TNA "originals" do not have the ability to carry the company. That's not a shot at their abilities, but merely accepting the fact that they aren't as well known.

Take AJ Styles for instance. He was pushed to the moon and above for many years in TNA, accomplished as much as humanly possible... but it didn't help TNA to grow at all because nobody knew who he was.

The only way to make the TNA originals bigger (short of letting them go to WWE where they can wrestle... er, I mean perform in front of a larger audience) is to make TNA bigger. The only way to make TNA grow is to bring in people bigger than the company so that they have something to sell to the fans and to sponsors.

Since HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN, RVD and others have arrived TNA has become a World wide promotion. They get more and bigger sponsors. As a result they were able to go live and now to take the show on the road. This all resulted in TNA (yes the "originals" too) being seen in front of a larger audience. As TNA continues to grow these guys will continue to become bigger stars.

So just because they are not in the World title picture at the moment (although I expect AJ to get the title at Bound For Glory) all for of the men you mentioned are former champions, are regularly recognized as such and are still featured prominently in TNA as it continues to grow. None of them are at risk of being lost in the shuffle.
 
You must also remember that the TNA "originals" do not have the ability to carry the company. That's not a shot at their abilities, but merely accepting the fact that they aren't as well known.

Take AJ Styles for instance. He was pushed to the moon and above for many years in TNA, accomplished as much as humanly possible... but it didn't help TNA to grow at all because nobody knew who he was.

The only way to make the TNA originals bigger (short of letting them go to WWE where they can wrestle... er, I mean perform in front of a larger audience) is to make TNA bigger. The only way to make TNA grow is to bring in people bigger than the company so that they have something to sell to the fans and to sponsors.

Since HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN, RVD and others have arrived TNA has become a World wide promotion. They get more and bigger sponsors. As a result they were able to go live and now to take the show on the road. This all resulted in TNA (yes the "originals" too) being seen in front of a larger audience. As TNA continues to grow these guys will continue to become bigger stars.

So just because they are not in the World title picture at the moment (although I expect AJ to get the title at Bound For Glory) all for of the men you mentioned are former champions, are regularly recognized as such and are still featured prominently in TNA as it continues to grow. None of them are at risk of being lost in the shuffle.

The IWC would be a much better place if more people used their brains. This is just pure common sense. But people seem to think that all TNA has to do is book indy-riffic shows every week and millions of viewers will come out of thin air.
 
Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying people established elsewhere being in the company are a bad thing. You need the guys like Sting, Kurt Angle, etc to help put over the newer stars. I'm not naïve enough to believe that these 4 guys I listed should always be the main event. People misunderstood my meaning. Anyone who watched TNA in 2011 and now can see a big difference and I truly am trying to understand the logic;

Aries & Roode aren't even main eventing anymore or even doing their own singles thing. They were thrown together randomly because it seems like TNA didn't know what to do with them and lack of anything else. Both guys are highly talented and should be going for the World Title.

AJ Styles is just getting some momentum and credibility back with this new dark character change. He hasn't main evented since he lost the TNA World Title to RVD. Can anyone deny that?

James Storm went from the biggest top new star to currently doing nothing aside from the teasing with AJ. How long has it been since he was even in contention for a title? He has serious momentum going into last year's BFG and now barely gets on the show. TNA went with Jeff Hardy as the winner of the BFG tourney and I still think that was a big mistake.

This is truly not another hate thread for non originals at all. It is simply me wondering what the hell happened to these guys in the last few months. Some people might say these guys aren't capable of "carrying the company". That's just an excuse. I think if given the full opportunity to run with the title, these guys could all make TNA the place for wrestling again. WWE and TNA these days are plagued with the same problem as the old WCW; they both believe keeping the same vets on top all the time is the solution. Fans obviously want to see something different and neither company is currently doing that. I'm not asking anyone to agree with my view but that's just my take on it.
 
It seems to me like there are a couple of problems with the TNA "originals". It's not a knock on them, but the TNA "originals" don't quite have enough star power to be huge wrestlings stars. This is mainly due to the fact that TNA doesn't have the means or the way to really compete against the WWE. Yes, I realize that TNA does do national and overseas tours. However, at the end of the day (with the way the shows are booked and carried out), TNA is more or less a glorified regional production. That would be okay 25 years ago, but the age of the regional promotion turning out national stars is dead. Because TNA can't compete on a national level with WWE, the casual fan will have NO idea who AJ Styles or Robert Roode is, despite being well-loved by TNA fans. Adding big name stars like Hogan didn't help simply because they can't compete on a national level. Because the "originals" can't get national exposure, they can't put over any new guys on a big level, despite how talented a TNA up-and-comer might be (not to mention that newbie with enough star power will go to WWE since the payday is bigger). And the "originals" can't carry the shows as well since there is a select core of them, and we've seen them all feud with each other SOOOOOOO many times.
 
Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying people established elsewhere being in the company are a bad thing. You need the guys like Sting, Kurt Angle, etc to help put over the newer stars. I'm not naïve enough to believe that these 4 guys I listed should always be the main event. People misunderstood my meaning. Anyone who watched TNA in 2011 and now can see a big difference and I truly am trying to understand the logic;

Aries & Roode aren't even main eventing anymore or even doing their own singles thing. They were thrown together randomly because it seems like TNA didn't know what to do with them and lack of anything else. Both guys are highly talented and should be going for the World Title.

AJ Styles is just getting some momentum and credibility back with this new dark character change. He hasn't main evented since he lost the TNA World Title to RVD. Can anyone deny that?

James Storm went from the biggest top new star to currently doing nothing aside from the teasing with AJ. How long has it been since he was even in contention for a title? He has serious momentum going into last year's BFG and now barely gets on the show. TNA went with Jeff Hardy as the winner of the BFG tourney and I still think that was a big mistake.

This is truly not another hate thread for non originals at all. It is simply me wondering what the hell happened to these guys in the last few months. Some people might say these guys aren't capable of "carrying the company". That's just an excuse. I think if given the full opportunity to run with the title, these guys could all make TNA the place for wrestling again. WWE and TNA these days are plagued with the same problem as the old WCW; they both believe keeping the same vets on top all the time is the solution. Fans obviously want to see something different and neither company is currently doing that. I'm not asking anyone to agree with my view but that's just my take on it.


Here's the problem: The main event spot in TNA isn't worth shit at the moment. TNA has to make itself a main eventer first before any of this stuff you're going on about even begins to matter. Keeping the originals at the top might make certain people feel good, but they've gotta figure out how to get people that don't watch to start watching.
 
He hasn't main evented since he lost the TNA World Title to RVD. Can anyone deny that?

Yes....I can since he was a maineventer in late 2011 when he was feuding with Bobby Roode for the title.

Anyway out of all the guys mentioned in the OP I think the only one who has fallen is Storm. It's taken me a while to admit it, but I will now. James Storm is not the main event player he was.

All of the others have reasoning for not being in the title picture:

Roode and Aries tagging is a way to keep them relevant without crossing paths with Aces and Eights who are also heels. And AJ Styles is in the opening stages of his mega push. We'll just have to be patient on that one.
 
AJ Styles is currently one of the centerpieces of the main storyline in TNA.

Bobby Roode was one of the best Champions in recent TNA history and is now a part of a prominent tag-team, the best one in TNA currently. He is also constantly on TV and involved in something.

James Storm is a former World Champion, had a huge program with Roode and is now doing smaller storylines but still featured on a regular basis.

Daniels went from a program with AJ Styles where he came out victorious, to being a part of the second (in my opinion) best team in TNA and pretty much not missing a week of Television, having promos and matches as well as a title shot not too long ago.

Now as far as the OP goes, not being in the title picture anymore means you've fallen. If you're doing some good stuff, fans couldn't care less if it was for the title or not. Personally, I think AJ Styles is more interesting now than during any of his Main Event runs. I think Aries is far more entertaining now than during his title run.

What do you want TNA to do? Keep the TNA originals in the title picture non-stop, 24/7, with no rotation and no focus on ANYONE else for years and years?

Fans need to realize that not fighting for the belt doesn't mean you've fallen. If you're featured on TV and have a match or a promo where you're not made to look like a dunce, you're doing just fine.

The originals had their turn already. Now it's Bully/Hardy. By BFG 13 it'll be AJ Styles and we'll get more originals.

This claim of the "fall" of the originals would only be valid if they vanished from TV for months and months after their respective main event runs, which hasn't been the case.

I just love it how when all of these guys were getting pushed to Main Event status, nobody said jack shit. Few people dared to mention that TNA finally did something we all bitched for, for years. Complete silence. Then, they stop Main Eventing and take a back seat to recharge their batteries and all of a sudden we again get the "when is TNA going to let them shine" bullshit.

They already did, months ago. Where were you?
 
As others have mentioned it's just rotation. You can't have the same guys main eventing year on year because it get's boring. The fact that TNA have probably a dozen wrestlers that could step up to face Bully Ray at Slammiversary is a good thing. It's because of this "rotation" that TNA has this luxury. If they only had 2 or 3 guys who were portrayed as credible contenders it would get boring quick. TNA can go anywhere they want with who gets the next World Title shot and there's a whole host of guys I would like to see get it mainly Hulk Hogan, AJ Styles, Matt Morgan or Austin Aries. Somebody else would probably list different guys and the best thing is that you actually believe they would stand a good chance in a World Title match.

None of the TNA Originals (what is an "original" anyway, someone who hasn't happened to have competed for WWE at some stage in their career?) have really fallen IMO. Other characters just got more interesting - namely Bully Ray - so the focus has switched for the time being. TNA doesn't seem to hold anyone down, if you're getting the biggest reactions you're getting the focus. Austin Aries and Bully Ray are prime examples of this, who thought those two would have World Title runs a couple of years ago?

The Boss also hit the nail on the head. Where were TNA before these big names arrived? Not performing on the road in front of big crowds every week.
 
Since HOLLYWOOD HULK HOGAN, RVD and others have arrived TNA has become a World wide promotion. They get more and bigger sponsors. As a result they were able to go live and now to take the show on the road. This all resulted in TNA (yes the "originals" too) being seen in front of a larger audience. As TNA continues to grow these guys will continue to become bigger stars.
OK. Ratings and show attendance are flat, and unless TNA is getting more money per year out of each individual fan that they already have, so is their revenue. Enough with the Hogan ******io, he hasn't earned this level of praise since 1996.

They were already touring around the world before the arrival of your cult hero, and they weren't doing it any less than they are today. The sponsors aren't any bigger, and they don't have more of them. Going live isn't, in and of itself, a sign that a company has a larger revenue base. (It's a big word way of explaining it, but think of it as saying 'making more money'. There's a technical difference.) It means that people are investing more money into TNA's production.

This could mean several things.

  • It could mean that TNA is generating more profit, but considering the ratings and show attendance have been flat, I think that a strongly improved position is unlikely. (Anyone who's in the 'ratings don't matter' camp, just stop reading here. This is a discussion about how companies make money and grow, not how much you like how the current storyline is.)
  • It could mean that while TNA hasn't expanded their revenue base significantly since 2010, they recognize that without going to a live-taping format in front of a paid crowd, they won't be able to expand that revenue base.
  • It could mean that the revenue base hasn't grown- or worse, has shrunk- and going live is a last ditch effort to improve that before making large cost cutbacks.
TNA is not in a position where they need to first raise capital in order to launch an investment. They don't have to convince the Bank of America that they have a worthy investment; they have to convince the Bank of Bob Carter. That doesn't mean they have an endless run at Panda Energy money, but it is significantly easier to secure funding from a larger partner in the same corporation than it is from anyone outside that corporation.


We're three years into the Hogan era, and the indicators that people look at to indicate success aren't saying 'success'. At some point in the future, the question is going to be asked if Hulk Hogan's paycheck- remember, he isn't UNICEF- is worth the ongoing cost of investment, and right now you can't say with confidence that he's brought more to the table than he's taken.
 
OK. Ratings and show attendance are flat, and unless TNA is getting more money per year out of each individual fan that they already have, so is their revenue. Enough with the Hogan ******io, he hasn't earned this level of praise since 1996.

They were already touring around the world before the arrival of your cult hero, and they weren't doing it any less than they are today. The sponsors aren't any bigger, and they don't have more of them. Going live isn't, in and of itself, a sign that a company has a larger revenue base. (It's a big word way of explaining it, but think of it as saying 'making more money'. There's a technical difference.) It means that people are investing more money into TNA's production.

This could mean several things.

  • It could mean that TNA is generating more profit, but considering the ratings and show attendance have been flat, I think that a strongly improved position is unlikely. (Anyone who's in the 'ratings don't matter' camp, just stop reading here. This is a discussion about how companies make money and grow, not how much you like how the current storyline is.)
  • It could mean that while TNA hasn't expanded their revenue base significantly since 2010, they recognize that without going to a live-taping format in front of a paid crowd, they won't be able to expand that revenue base.
  • It could mean that the revenue base hasn't grown- or worse, has shrunk- and going live is a last ditch effort to improve that before making large cost cutbacks.
TNA is not in a position where they need to first raise capital in order to launch an investment. They don't have to convince the Bank of America that they have a worthy investment; they have to convince the Bank of Bob Carter. That doesn't mean they have an endless run at Panda Energy money, but it is significantly easier to secure funding from a larger partner in the same corporation than it is from anyone outside that corporation.


We're three years into the Hogan era, and the indicators that people look at to indicate success aren't saying 'success'. At some point in the future, the question is going to be asked if Hulk Hogan's paycheck- remember, he isn't UNICEF- is worth the ongoing cost of investment, and right now you can't say with confidence that he's brought more to the table than he's taken.

Jesus Christ, dude. What is this giant-ass gripe you have with Hogan not being a good investment and TNA not being better off in spite of him? Aside from the ratings/attendance being the same (or slightly less), TNA appears to be doing better in every other department.

Is this because of Hogan? Hell no it's not because of Hogan. I agree, Hogan didn't contribute to this. This is TNA's natural progression as a company. Going semi-live and fully on the road. I really think this would've happened with or without Hogan.

Either way, Hogan has his purpose in TNA and since they've had him for 2-3 years, I'm sure they're fine with paying his old ass as they have been for quite a long time. Are you involved in TNA financial matters? Is he hurting YOUR wallet somehow? What's up your ass?

He seems to have SOME value to them. The presumption that "Hogan = N#1 wrestling company overnight" comes from the fans and Hogan's trademark overhyping of everything which he is fully aware of, that's his job. Also from the fact that he's Hulk Hogan. The fans simply ate that shit up like hot bread. I say good job, Hulk. And if this presumption is not fulfilled, suddenly he's useless and just draining money out of TNA.

Does TNA appear to be in ANY financial peril at the moment? No. In fact, by the looks of it, they're doing pretty damn well. So what's the fuss about?

Let's get back on topic now, and discuss how the TNA originals are in the crapper. Apparently. Somehow. Someway.
 
Honeslty, I am getting damn sick of seeing people complain about what TNA is doing. TNA isn't doing that well, but it is because they are doing exactly what the IWC wants them to do, which is a bad idea because everytime they do anything and it doesn't instantaneously succeed, the IWC wants to say that they have a better idea than what TNA are doing and that they know the secret to a wrestling promotion's success.

The TNA originals are originals of a B-grade company, below WWE. That isn't going to help anything, putting those guys on the pedastal. They do not sell, and it is obvious. They need even more guys from the WWE to really be taken seriously, and they also need more time on their shows to showcase everyone and their characters. The most important part though, is story.

Aces and 8's is killing TNA right now. It is the poison. They have no idea where they are going with the group, because the angle doesn't make any damn sense, and nobody cares about the group. What TNA needs, is a good angle, top guys going after the championship, and to do their own thing and not listen to fans that think they know it all.
 
I'm so tired of people defending TNA for the wrestlers/dinosaurs that they hire. Now sometimes TNA makes some good hiring choices (Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy) but more often than not they make horrible ones.

Everyone wants to sit here and say "TNA needs to grow and they need big names to do so!" yet what have the signings of the likes of Hulk Hogan and Sting amounted to? Jack shit. TNA has been in the same ratings ball park since establishing them selves on Spike.

What TNA -SHOULD- have done was hired names like Kurt Angle to help get over their own talent, which at times they did, far too many times they hire bad people, or just make bad choices with them. For awhile TNA did really well with bringing in people like Sabu/Rhyno for short runs. To my surprise people like Rhyno were pretty entertaining to watch, then it's like TNA got greedy, or over confident and started to hire every name you've ever happened to hear in wrestling ever that was available.

Chavo (Who is currently a tag team champion.)
Brian Kendrick (They had him go over Abyss at one point.)
Hulk Hogan (He is hurting the product more than helping.)
Sting (I love Sting but the show seems to constantly focus around him, enough is enough, I love him, but he's too old. He has value in TNA but not as much as he's been given.)
Booker T (Was not at all needed in TNA.)
Christian (He was champion for a little bit, c'mon now.)
Eric Bischofe (What is the purpose of him being there?)
Brooke Hogan ( ..... )
Hell they've brought in the fucking nasty boys at one point (Great job Hogan!)
D'lo Brown (Fucking seriously?)

and lots more people I can't even be bothered to think of..

Fucking Scott Steiner managed to bring more to the TNA table than most of these people, and I really don't even like Steiner.

I -HATE- Jeff Jarrett but the product was much better when he was running things and was champion. TNA Hires all these names to try to get viewers? Well guess what? I went from being a fan of TNA to having now stopped watching.

What TNA needed to do was hire names who could work well with their style of product, Kurt Angle, RVD (Even if his TNA run was lackluster, that's just hindsight, it was still the right choice to hire him at the time.), Jeff Hardy, Ken Anderson, The Dudleys, and some more - these were all GOOD hires. Why? Because every one of those names had the potential to work well with what was the existing TNA roster and most of them have to some degree.

But who the fuck is D'lo brown going to work well with? Hell, nothing against Booker T but who the fuck was he going to have even a 4 star match with at this point? His name value is marginal at very best when it comes to drawing power. Even Kurt Angle/Sting hasn't equated to a draw in TNA but at least they bring something to the fucking table.

It's not about TNA hot shotting to 2.0 ratings because of having hired one name, the only way that'll ever even have a snow balls chance in hell of working is if they somehow got Lesnar, The Rock, or Austin, and that will never happen. The only one who would ever even consider it is probably Lesnar, if they could pay him enough.

So what does TNA need to do? Have a consistently solid/strong product and climb their way up the ratings mountain. They used to fucking have that.

Look, was their talent pool perfect? No, in the sense that while they were all amazing athletes a lot of them can't cut a promo worth a shit and lacked a lot of story telling ability in their matches, I understand that, really I do. These were all very young guys though, that had all the time in the world to improve.

The x-division was the perfect place for them to be on display, deliver high quality matches, and get over based on pure athleticism. The thing is though while this is happening you need to fucking train these people, have them all working on promos, have them learning different ways to wrestle. I have a hard time believing that people like AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Samoa Joe, Chris Sabin, Alex Shelley, Jay Lethal, Petey Williams etc. etc. ever really reached their true potential. They probably never will at this point either and that's a shame.

Of all the people TNA have homegrown over the years the only people I think to have really reached close to their potential is AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, and Abyss. I think all three of them could have/still could do more. Samoa Joe needs to get in some kind of fucking shape though, so I think he's part of his own problem, and once again I understand that, the overall point still stands though.

TNA never really had someone to come in and show these guys the right way. The sad part is they have the perfect guy for it - Kurt Angle. He understands ring psychology and story telling as well as the best of them and can cut a decent promo. Hell didn't Dutch Mantel used to be one of their writers? The guy obviously knows how to cut a good promo.

Instead though Hogan comes in and the entire show changes, they ditch the 6 sided ring for better or worse and everyone starts to wrestle WWE paced matches. The same way being a spot monkey doesn't = a ***** match, working slow paced matches does not = in ring psychology or story telling. It's like someone came in and went "Ok guys, you need to start working slower paced matches." with out actually telling them how to do it properly. At least spot monkeys are fun to watch, I'll take a spot monkey over Randy Orton doing his 4th headlock of the match any day of the week.

TNA for awhile had the perfect set up, The X-Division which show cased young, athletic, fast paced talent.

Then they usually had a hardcore match of sorts with people like Abyss, Raven, Rhyno, Sabu, etc.

Lastly, the NWA championship match which showcased more old school heavyweight wrestling. Again, I don't like Jeff Jarrett at all but he was actually a pretty decent heel champion in TNA and had a lot of very solid matches. Was leaving him champion as often as they did the right move? No. He did a lot of very under rated work in TNA though.

There was literally something for everyone. Now it's just WWE lite..actually, it's more like WCW lite. They had a good product, they had a good formula, all they needed to do was stick with it and build upon it, evolve it. Instead they threw the entire blue print out the window. The show is shit now, I try to watch it about once a month and usually can't even make it through the entire show.

p.s. Tazz is the worst fucking announcer ever. Him being in Aces and eights makes him that much worse. It boggled my mind how WWE let him announce for as long as they did and it boggles my mind even more that TNA now has him announce.
 
Aces and 8's is killing TNA right now. It is the poison. They have no idea where they are going with the group, because the angle doesn't make any damn sense, and nobody cares about the group. What TNA needs, is a good angle, top guys going after the championship, and to do their own thing and not listen to fans that think they know it all.

your opinion.
there are people that don't like the Aces and Eights. and then there are people that think the Aces and Eights have been good.
I for one like the angle right now with Aces and Eights. I find it entertaining. it's not about the wrestling, it's a story line. the heels are winning right now, and eventually the faces will win.
now sure TNA has made mistakes with the group, like making them look weak prior to having Bully turn. but they've done a better job since Bully has become the President. right now they need to continue making the Aces and Eights look strong. it's too bad people can't get past what was done months ago and focus on the now.

how do you figure it doesn't make sense? the purpose was to get Bully Ray main event and the heavyweight title. something he wasn't getting when he first turned heel. back before when Bully was heel, he was awesome. there were many people who felt he was a better heel at the time than Bobby Roode. but some people now still only want to look and see "Bubba Ray Dudley", and that's too bad.
TNA has invested all this time in the angle. I bet my left nut it's not going to end anytime soon. how long has Bully been champion? not long enough to lose the title anytime soon.

I think it's unfortunate that people already have an opinion on some wrestlers because of what they did somewhere else. Fetus and Knox suck. who are Fetus and Knox? all I know are DOC and Knux. I don't think WWE fans had pre determined negative opinions on former WCW "rejects" the likes of Terra Ryzing (Triple H), Mean Mark (Undertaker) or Stunning Steve Austin (Stone Cold).

Hulk Hogan has done good for TNA. right from the beginning he got rid of that ridiculous gimmick 6 sided ring.

regardless of what TNA does, there will always always always be people on the internet criticizing it and saying it;s not good.
 
regardless of what TNA does, there will always always always be people on the internet criticizing it and saying it;s not good.

That's the problem. All this "TNA used to be so good" bullshit needs to stop. I've been on sites like this since 2006. TNA has ALWAYS gotten shit from the IWC. No matter what they've done. When the roster was 70% X-Division people complained that it wasn't 100%. All the people claiming they liked TNA before Hogan are full of shit.

The only way TNA could turn that around would be if they did EVERYTHING the way the majority of the IWC want it done because most IWC fans are really only concerned with showing the powers that be in wrestling today that they know more about wrestling than them, not actually being entertained.
 
Jesus Christ, dude. What is this giant-ass gripe you have with Hogan not being a good investment and TNA not being better off in spite of him? Aside from the ratings/attendance being the same (or slightly less), TNA appears to be doing better in every other department.
Y'know, since I think about what a business has to take in versus what it's able to put out for a living, it's sort of a habit for me. But let me get your point- besides all of the leading indicators that people pay attention to when trying to determine if a professional wrestling promotion is advancing being flat, it doesn't look flat? Yes, they appear to be doing better in other departments, because when we're talking about cash, there aren't any other departments that matter. (Again, unless you're in the crowd that believes TNA is getting far more money per person than they have been. Statistically unlikely.)

You don't understand money, and that's understandable. Most professional wrestling fans get caught up on a guy doing a cool flip, or sneering at a camera, just right. You're in that crowd that acts shocked when WCW goes broke. Does TNA appear to be running out of money OH MY GOD RIGHT NOW!!!? No, I've never argued that, and it's another case of you using over the top hyperbole to try to embellish an already weak point. The whole idea- and this is like Business Economics 101- is that a company has to convince the people that place money into it that they should continue to place money into it. When a business isn't able to turn to those investors and say "this is what we'll get you for your money", those investors then ask themselves "is this a good use of my money?" When that answer becomes 'no', then companies fail.

You mistook all this for Hogan hate. Again, s'ok- anyone criticizes TNA, you get to slurping, and usually miss the points that people are expressing. Go read a book, and we can have this conversation again at a future time when you're ready for it.
 
Y'know, since I think about what a business has to take in versus what it's able to put out for a living, it's sort of a habit for me. But let me get your point- besides all of the leading indicators that people pay attention to when trying to determine if a professional wrestling promotion is advancing being flat, it doesn't look flat? Yes, they appear to be doing better in other departments, because when we're talking about cash, there aren't any other departments that matter. (Again, unless you're in the crowd that believes TNA is getting far more money per person than they have been. Statistically unlikely.)

You don't understand money, and that's understandable. Most professional wrestling fans get caught up on a guy doing a cool flip, or sneering at a camera, just right. You're in that crowd that acts shocked when WCW goes broke. Does TNA appear to be running out of money OH MY GOD RIGHT NOW!!!? No, I've never argued that, and it's another case of you using over the top hyperbole to try to embellish an already weak point. The whole idea- and this is like Business Economics 101- is that a company has to convince the people that place money into it that they should continue to place money into it. When a business isn't able to turn to those investors and say "this is what we'll get you for your money", those investors then ask themselves "is this a good use of my money?" When that answer becomes 'no', then companies fail.

You mistook all this for Hogan hate. Again, s'ok- anyone criticizes TNA, you get to slurping, and usually miss the points that people are expressing. Go read a book, and we can have this conversation again at a future time when you're ready for it.

Yes, you're a business man or you're involved in those things, we get it. You mention it every second post. That doesn't make you the end-all be-all of knowledge, nor does it make everyone an intellectual midget. I improve companies' business models when it comes to their online presence and marketing strategies. Am I shoving my knowledge on the matter in everyone's face? Hell no. I'm not that big of a dick.

Here are the facts, pal. The only clear-cut information that you have in order to evaluate TNA's current business state and say anything about it are their ratings. You have no idea what kind of revenue they generate from ANY other department, whether it's Pay-Per-View sales, gate sales, sponsors, online On-Demand content, merchandising, DVDs, live events and so on. You don't have the slightest clue what these numbers are, the only thing you can do is take a wild guess, a shot in the dark based on the ratings and lay a claim that on paper makes sense but cannot possibly be considered truth or fact and is likely to be far from what's really happening. You throw that shit at the wall, hope something sticks.

The whole lecture about the company convincing people to put money into it is irrelevant right now. It is correct, it is on point, but without proper financial information and factual data that you can base strong argumentation for, it's just a guy jagging his jaw about a possible scenario, sounding smart without accomplishing anything else. It's just a guy pointing at a normal house and saying "If this house is on fire, we should use water to put it out". Yes, master, we should use water to put fire out. Great input. And yes, a company should convince people to invest their hard earned money into it and should provide a service equal to the amount of money paid. If the price doesn't match the quality of the service, people won't purchase it anymore. Big revelation there.

Hold on, everyone turn your TV sets on. The sky is. Wait what? The sky is blue?! I have to call my grandmother. I'll be telling my children of this day until I die.

Fact is, we don't know what the hell is going on in TNA, and to judge the entire company based on its ratings is silly. They are an indicator, but they don't tell you their whole situation. They wish it were that easy.

You don't think TNA knows this stuff? What are you? Some underground, incognito business mastermind that every huge company has yet to realize existed? Everyone knows the rules, Nancy, but saying it much harder than executing it and making it work. You should know that.

You can't just apply the first theory they taught you back in College and expect it to work automatically. "Well, uh, just make your product good and convince people to buy it and then - money". Well, how does TNA make their product good? What IS "good" these days? Should they cough up thousands of dollars on research in order to find out? And if they do find out what good is, what marketing strategies should they apply in order to get the product out there? The current audience will be in awe, but people won't automatically flock to watch your shit just because YOU think it's good. You need to get it out and you don't do that by pushing AJ Styles. And how do you deal with the crushing competition? WWE has a monopoly on the business and an overly loyal following. How do you deal with that? How do you offer something that much greater? How do you know what these fans want, aside from your own? And moreover, how do you attract foreign audiences, people who are not used to wrestling or haven't seen it in ages? Would a product that caters to the current audience turn off potential viewers? And if you cater to potential viewers would that direction put off the current audience?

SO MANY QUESTIONS! Do you have an answer for those as well, pointdexter? Any other theory you want to share? Some other wise quotes? Quote Churchill, please do it. He always has good stuff.

That's just the TIP of the iceberg. You of all people should know that saying a theory and applying it successfully in an actual business environment with a plethora of factors affecting its potential success or failiure are two DISTINCTLY different things. Notice how they teach us the theories but once we're in the field - "Shit, son, you're on your own. Figure that shit out.". Why? They're professors. They got into academia BECAUSE all they knew were the fucking theories and had no clue how to successfully make them work in the real world.

Are things fuckin' swell in TNA? Eh, maybe. Maybe not. But until they show obvious signs of really having trouble financially I won't worry about it. Frankly, even when they do I won't worry about it. Ultimately, I don't give a fuck. I'm not a share owner, I don't work for them. Do you, Mr. Trump?
 

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