The end of Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker - worried?

[HBK-aholic]

We've all heard by now that Shawn is looking to have his last Wrestlemania match at WM 26. I doubt the Undertaker will be very far behind him - although maybe a few years will separate them so that's comforting.

However, looking at the recent WM result, people are in wide agreement that that match was the best. And you know how good it must have been, to have wrestling fans on an internet forum agreeing. The match was amazing. But when you look at the rest of the card, you can't help but feel slightly disappointed. Or, worried, in my case.

What is going to happen to the WWE when these 2 legends retire? Is there really someone who can take the place of 'Mr. Wrestlemania' - refer who you want to that title. Regardless, both these men deserve it. And Shawn always tears the house down at Wrestlemania. Can you imagine what WM 25 would have been without them?

I think this is going to hit the quality of shows pretty badly. Even the guy dibbed as the next Hogan - John Cena, didn't put on anything special - not like these 2. And he won the title!

A huge gap is going to be made in the WWE when these 2 leave, I;m not sure there's anyone there to fill it.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

I think this is going to hit the quality of shows pretty badly. Even the guy dibbed as the next Hogan - John Cena, didn't put on anything special - not like these 2. And he won the title!

Well, you do need to consider the vast difference in storylines here. One was meant as a serious headlining performance. (Taker/Michaels) While the other was barely holding Cena into it, while being a joke/love triangle surrounding Vickie Guerrero.

It's not exactly like anyone expected Cena to go steal the show over Taker/Michaels.. but a lot of people, myself included, still felt the Triple Threat served it's purpose vastly more so than that ridiculous Main Event with Orton/Triple H.

A huge gap is going to be made in the WWE when these 2 leave, I;m not sure there's anyone there to fill it.

It won't be any different than how the Company had to alter toward a new group of talent once guy's like Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, and the Ultimate Warrior were taken out of the overall picture.

Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker are simply NOT replaceable. No one would even argue that fact. But the show, (no pun intended) will always go on.

Guy's like John Cena, Randy Orton, Edge, C.M. Punk, and even up-starts like Kofi Kingston. (who was money - also no pun intended - tonight) You'll always have your top core group of talent, and none of them will be comparable to the past legends.

The company will lose two top names in the Undertaker and Shawn Michaels, when they both retire. But they won't suffer or struggle any more so than when they lost guys like Steve Austin, The Rock, or Hulk Hogan. New guys make big names for themselves.. and that's exactly what will happen.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

Its going to be Ok, dont panic!

Wrestlemania is seen with such awe, and such lustre. Why arent you worried with the quality of the product around the time of No mercy? or Judgement day? No, its wrestlemania that seems to be capturing hearts and minds. I see this as a great opportunity for other guys to step up to the plate of "Mr Wrestlemania". Someone who always steps up in their game.

Analysing HBK's performances, I mean, for Mr Wrestlemania, his first few weren't that great. A few matches with the rockers, against Tatanka,, I mean, nothing spectacular. But nothing bad. You could say the same about Chris Jericho. He's had some great matches at mania, even if one was with HBK, and nothing terrible. Lets not count this year. Why cant he be the next wrestlemania? OR what about CM Punk? We've only seen him as a gangster for John Cena and in MITB matches. Maybe he'll step up his game in a championship match. you cant say that by taking out HBK and Taker that the rest of the card is going to infinately blow.

Interestlingly enough, The Ultimate Warrior was supposed to be the premier wrestler of the 90's. What a great match he had with hogan! But sooner or later he left, and people probably were saying, whose going to replace him? Turns out HBK was the premier wrestler of the 90's.

If the WWE can get by in the year when HBK and Taker ARENT putting on some of their top performances, im sure they can find someone to cover that one day.

Sorry if that was a little convuluted.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Well, you do need to consider the vast difference in storylines here. One was meant as a serious headlining performance. (Taker/Michaels) While the other was barely holding Cena into it, while being a joke/love triangle surrounding Vickie Guerrero.

While that may have been a part of it..there still wasn't anything special from Cena there. And Cena is supposed to be the guy that 'saved WWE'. From what, I don't know. But you've seen the praise he gets.

It's not exactly like anyone expected Cena to go steal the show over Taker/Michaels.. but a lot of people, myself included, still felt the Triple Threat served it's purpose vastly more so than that ridiculous Main Event with Orton/Triple H.

The Triple Threat was a lot better than Orton/Triple H. Something I was surprised at because it had a great build. However, still, no where near as good as Undertaker/ HBK. They saved the PPV. And without them there it would have been horrible - I can't say much more.

It won't be any different than how the Company had to alter toward a new group of talent once guy's like Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, and the Ultimate Warrior were taken out of the overall picture.

But I think there, there was always someone better to take the place. There came a new generation with HBK/Austin/Taker/Rock etc. I can't see where that's coming from with WWE. These 2 literally put on the best performance every time they wrestle. It's going to change A LOT when they leave.

Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker are simply NOT replaceable. No one would even argue that fact. But the show, (no pun intended) will always go on.

Never said it wouldn't, but the quality will suffer.

Guy's like John Cena, Randy Orton, Edge, C.M. Punk, and even up-starts like Kofi Kingston. (who was money - also no pun intended - tonight) You'll always have your top core group of talent, and none of them will be comparable to the past legends.

The company will lose two top names in the Undertaker and Shawn Michaels, when they both retire. But they won't suffer or struggle any more so than when they lost guys like Steve Austin, The Rock, or Hulk Hogan. New guys make big names for themselves.. and that's exactly what will happen.

But the problem is, with the exception of Edge and Cena is that I can't see any of those guysbeing anywhere near as good. And Edge and Cena aren't always great - something I would argue is the case of Shawn and Undertaker.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Its going to be Ok, dont panic!

*Breathes to stop panicing*

Wrestlemania is seen with such awe, and such lustre. Why arent you worried with the quality of the product around the time of No mercy? or Judgement day? No, its wrestlemania that seems to be capturing hearts and minds. I see this as a great opportunity for other guys to step up to the plate of "Mr Wrestlemania". Someone who always steps up in their game.

Because WM is what practically all year we are looking forward to - wrestling is Wrestlemania, and they pull in a lotmore fans around this time. You'd think that everyone would be amazing. But the range of talent was ridiculous.

Analysing HBK's performances, I mean, for Mr Wrestlemania, his first few weren't that great. A few matches with the rockers, against Tatanka,, I mean, nothing spectacular. But nothing bad. You could say the same about Chris Jericho. He's had some great matches at mania, even if one was with HBK, and nothing terrible. Lets not count this year. Why cant he be the next wrestlemania? OR what about CM Punk? We've only seen him as a gangster for John Cena and in MITB matches. Maybe he'll step up his game in a championship match. you cant say that by taking out HBK and Taker that the rest of the card is going to infinately blow.

These people could, yes. But they're not as good..the show was saved by these 2 men - they won't be there if something like that happens again. I know I'm probably over-exaggerating a little, but at the same time, it's their match that will be remembered.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

but at the same time, it's their match that will be remembered.

Yes It will be their match that will be what will define wrestlemania 25. However, I also think that in some ways, both HBK and Taker being so good is also a bit of a curse.

From creatives point of view, not only did they put so much time and effort into the feud (rightly needed), but I feel they also relied on it to sell the show. So then they just heaped 8, 8! midcard wrestlers into MITB, expecting HBK-Taker to make up for the lack of substance.

If taker and HBK had not been on the card, i feel creative would have worked to give more matches and spread out the talent a bit more.

The match still kicked ass though .

 

[salopstick]

these two are the best of their generation.

undertaker has the best gimmick period, whilst vince was trying to push bezerkers, dragons, matadors and red roosters down our neck mean mark callous took an unbelivable gimmick, ran with it and made it believable

hbk by contrast is a cocky little shit who was just another guy after the break up of the rockers, he worked hard, had some great matches and had to be pushed

these two kept wwf in business in the mid 90s,whilst stars were leaving for teds cash they stayed loyal to vince and kept that company in business untill stone cold and the rock came along

shawn michaels and the undertaker should have the ultimate honour none that any of their peers have, they both deserve to go in the hof but it should be unique that two guys who are synonomous with wwf/e only should be the first two active wresters to go in.
they then should only wrestle sporadically making it special

i see hbk and john morrison stealing the show next year with the torch passing

i would really like to see them each induct each other or a joint induction because although they are not and have never been a team they are ultimate team players

 

[GameOver]

There will still be awesome matches with or without HBK/Taker around think a bout it Taker only wrestles maybe 30% of the yr anyway and they still manage without him

HBK well noone can replace him, he's one of a kind.

But yeah i too feel they would spread more matches. and give more originality instead of the same mid card guys facing each other every week.

They do need to take a serious look at the roster and push some new talent through cause at the moment the level of talent is very thin. They have lots of Mid Carders who have no chance of going further and some that have all the attributes but seem to do nothing with the chance (Shelton Benjamin for one)

MVP/Matt Hardy will get a push to lower main event tier sooner than later

Kennedy i dunno he doesn't grab me, the idea is there but he just can't pull it off IMO.

The main event tier is Ok for the most part but yeah those guys can't keep carrying the show for ever and constinuously facing each other cause there's noone else to push that would get the pop.

Regardless i've been watching WWF/WWE since 1984, currently in roughly 5 generation of superstars that have come and gone so for me and it's an addiction so i don't see a time when i won't be atleast listening to the shows whether HBK/Taker are around or not.

 

[OIL]

You need to understand how the industry works.

As one superstar finishes up, another one comes in and takes his place. The company keeps on going. Think about when Austin & The Rock left. People came in that replaced them (Batista & Cena). The company kept on going, and they did fine. Sure, you're not going to find another 'Taker or HBK, but that's fine. It just opens up the spot for someone else to come and fill in, and shine.

Cena didn't do anything special, but it wasn't completly down to him. Edge & Big Show have to play their part to make it special. It was a good match, but obviously 'Taker vs HBK was bigger. It was billed as a bigger match, whereas the triple threat match was based around Vickie Guerrero. You could see which one was going to be better a mile off.

 

[Shadowmancer]

The only reason I would be worried about the upcoming retirements of Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker, comes from the fact that with Wrestlemania 25, the only match that kept me emotionally involved and on the edge of my seat, was the match they had between them. I worry about the future of the WWE when the story told in the ring is blah, the closest thing I got to what I felt with Taker and HBK was the Mega-Hardy's Explode match. The emotional investment of the fans into the match is going to be a giant hole, that it doesn't look like any of the current crop of wrestlers can match. Others can have good matches, but I can't see them having great matches.

 

[OIL]

Emotional investment?

The reason it was so high for the 'Taker match was because they were two icons of the industry, the match that people have been waiting years for. It was sort of like Cena vs Batista, although it wasn't done on the grandest stage. If it was, it would have been the same. The emotional investment also comes down to the streak. Undertaker fans don't want it to end, but about 40% of that crowd did.

 

[Shadowmancer]

What is it with people and not understanding the term Emotional Investment, Regardless of who was in the match, you care about the result. You take the rises and falls, it requires an element of dissimulation from your knowledge and becoming a, for lack of a better word, mark without realizing it. It is all to do with Storytelling. Both these guys can tell a story that makes sense in the ring and keeps you gripped to the edge of your seat.

Emotional Investment in the match is what the WWE should be aiming for, for the majority of matches, moreso for Wrestlemania, it means that people will part with their money to see the match on PPV. I'm struggling to name a wrestler on the Roster of the WWE right now that creates that kind of emotional attachment to a match for me. Taker and HBK are the only ones right now. Cena is meh, Triple H could if he tried, Orton is almost there. I wouldn't pay to watch a Batista match.

 

[foundation611]

Well, you do need to consider the vast difference in storylines here. One was meant as a serious headlining performance. (Taker/Michaels) While the other was barely holding Cena into it, while being a joke/love triangle surrounding Vickie Guerrero.

It's not exactly like anyone expected Cena to go steal the show over Taker/Michaels.. but a lot of people, myself included, still felt the Triple Threat served it's purpose vastly more so than that ridiculous Main Event with Orton/Triple H.



It won't be any different than how the Company had to alter toward a new group of talent once guy's like Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, and the Ultimate Warrior were taken out of the overall picture.

Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker are simply NOT replaceable. No one would even argue that fact. But the show, (no pun intended) will always go on.

Guy's like John Cena, Randy Orton, Edge, C.M. Punk, and even up-starts like Kofi Kingston. (who was money - also no pun intended - tonight) You'll always have your top core group of talent, and none of them will be comparable to the past legends.

The company will lose two top names in the Undertaker and Shawn Michaels, when they both retire. But they won't suffer or struggle any more so than when they lost guys like Steve Austin, The Rock, or Hulk Hogan. New guys make big names for themselves.. and that's exactly what will happen.

I absolutely agree with everything you said here. Especially how the Triple threat served a purpose better than that ATROCIOUS main event. Shawn and Taker stole the show and I think WM25 would've been a complete waste without that match. Scary thought when they leave but the show will go on.

 

[jokeboy624]

I'd like to ask everyone a question. When Hogan, Warrior and Savage all left, did you say "Ok, Shawn Michaels and Undertaker will fill that role now. They are the next generation." I highly doubt any of us could say we thought that, and if you did, I'd like to talk to you about this week's lottery numbers. Just because you can't see who is going to step up doesn't mean they aren't there.

As far as not being emotionally invested in anyone, I would argue that once these guys leave you'll focus your attention to a new superstar. It might not happen right away but the WWE has been doing this a while and though they may not be hitting home runs with every new guy, they will eventually. So maybe Wrestlemania 28 won't have a stand out match teeming with emotion and intensity, which sucks, I'd bet WM 29 delivers.

Patience is a virtue.

 

[ZeroChan]

The real question is, Was that the greatest match ever? Seeing Shawn kick out of that tombstone was insane!

Back on topic: Somebody will step up, history has taught it when the best are gone, it leaves oppurtunity for new guys to step up. Like when Rock, Austin, taker and Foley were gone. Guys like Orton, Cena, Beniot, and Eddie stepped to the plate. Not in that order or anything, I'm just saying.

 

[imagekmcl]

Look last nights WM was good, the matches were all different in every way. The MITB was crap they had some good high spots but a lot of F ups and it ended abruptly with CM Punk winning it 2 years in a row which i might add no one seemed to care about if you listened to the commentary. The IC match well that was a big pile of you know what good job it was defended but hell i think I would have rather seen the Tag match. The Diva battle royal ok well it sucked almost as much as Kid Rocks performance, yay for Santina!!! The Legends vs Jericho the only thing that was great about that match is Steamboat vs Jericho that was great after that it got down right retarted. The main event Orton vs. HHH when is WWE going to realize that these 2 can not i repeat can not put on a great match together. 2 times they wrestled together Orton got hurt and last night was just crap they put so much into the build up and storyline they forgot to put any time into working on a match. The Triple Threat I thought was the 2nd best match on the show when Big Show was tied up in the ropes yelling at Edge " What did you do" and yelling at the ref " Hey Ref get me the hell out of these ropes" I almost cried laughing so hard and yeah I would have liked to see Big Show take the title finally but we all knew it was going back to Cena. All these matches had so much put into them but one thing that is different in them vs the Taker/HBK match is that every single match the people involved in the matches have been in some kind of altercation with eachother or have wrestled eachother leading up to the show except Taker/HBK, I don't count 2 sweet chin musics as anything. Think about that they barely touched each other until the Show.

Sorry I ramble when I have something on my mind

 

[justinsayne]

Simple answer is WWE and their talent will finally have to step up and push new guys. Personally I think last night should've been the end of both Taker and HBKs careers, I mean how is it possible for them to have a match better than the one they put on last year?, WWE has plenty of guys ready to step up and be in the spotlight, they just need to push them already, guys like Edge, Cena, & Orton have already been established and will likely not be going anywhere anytime soon, now they need to concentrate on pushing guys like MVP, Christian, Kofi, Swagger, Bourne, and if he can remain healthy Kennedy, as well as others. They already seem convinced that Punk can be a huge star, if they'd only keep his pushes consistent, and actually do something worth a crap with the guy, he might actually be worth a shit, but right now it's just hard to get into the guy. One minute he's ECW champ then he does nothing for months, then out of nowhere he's winning MITB, then winning tag titles, then loseing tag titles, then cashing MITB in and becoming WHC in a heel like fashion, then they book his title reign like shit, he drops the belt in the dumbest way imaginable, then wins the IC title, doesn't defend it forever, finally does against JBL and loses, then goes on to win MITB again, it seems like WWE has no idea of how to push the guy, I guess storylines are just too much work for the superstar isn't over the age of 40...

 

["Cool Guy" Jensen]

The problem is... you simply CANNOT replace The Undertaker and Shawn Michaels. When these two suberb performers retire, it will leave a huge gap in the WWE, but it's WWE's job to... dare I say... move on. If HBK says he will retire at Wrestlemania 26, WWE knows that it's less than a year away, so why not make the next 300+ days for HBK the best ever. I expect Undertaker to get drafted to Raw next week and continue his feud with HBK. They will have a match at Backlash with HBK most likely winning and if not, they'll continue to have matches where HBK will win eventually.

After their fued is over, we could have HBK challenge for the World Championship. His last title reign only lasted 4 weeks, and it was only done because of his return after a 4-year hiatus due to a career-ending back injury, caused by Undertaker, by the way. WE can have have HBK win the title and eventually lose it at WM26 or something like that. If WM26 will be HBK's last match, I don't know if his legacy will be best if he wins or loses.

Now, with Undertaker, who hasn't said much about the time of his retirement, I feel there are less possibilities. Undertaker is the greatest performer to step foot into WWE's squared circle and his retire will sadden me. I don't know how WWE will treat Undertaker during his last few months before retiring, but we'll see.

So, I think that when both HBK and Undertaker's career comes to an end, we will have to see who WWE begins to push at the ''Grandest Stage of 'Em All''. With those two out of the way, so to speak, will we see someone else step up? Who knows?

 

[quink987]

ok undertaker and hbk are with out a doubt the best performers in history but no one paniced in 1998 when shawn broke his back and we all thought he would never wrestle again no one even thought about him everyone was too busy watching the austin era.

and when undertaker disapeared in late 1999 and miss wrestlemania 2000 no one thought wheres undertaker we was to busy watching the rock and HHH feud over the title.wwe has enough talent to cover the undertaker and hbk you got john morrison who in my mind is the new hbk of this era when he gets the right push and starts getting in big feuds with people he could be the new mr wrestlemania he is cocky, got the right look, can wrestle, and he is carrying the miz in thair tag team just like hbk did with the rockers.

you also have randy orton, edge, christan, cm punk, jeff hardy, matt hardy, mvp, shelton benjiman, ted dibease, who can all wrestle really well when the wwe lets them and cm punk beleave it or not is really good on the mic just watch some of his indy work. you got people like joe henning, steamboat jr, Eric Escobar, low ki, jonny prime etc.. all waiting to come up from fcw and all can wrestle so just on the roster alone thairs enough talent to cover and could draw big money for the wwe if pushed right and promoted well but i understand what everyone is saying thairs only one hbk and undertaker but thairs only one hogan, rock, austin, warrior, randy savage, bret hart, lex luger, scott hall, kevin nash and we have all moved on from them its just how things happen i'd rather them retire on top then have them around like ric flair did just before he got retired i know what i just said about ric flair will not go down well but at summerslam 2 years ago everyone online was saying ric flair needs to retire he is pasted it but when he did everyone is like when is he coming back.

but back to the point wwe will just do fine i bet hbk and undertaker will never retire they will come back and do the odd wrestlemania match here and thair just like hogan has done

 

[DeadmanInc.]

I think WWE should definitely be worried after Wrestlemania 25. It was the 25th anniversary of their biggest event and who were the stars of the show? Two superstars in their 40's and nearing retirement (HBK/Taker) and a 56 year old that hasn't wrestled in about 15 years (Steamboat). The rest of the event sucked and that should cause them to worry when their two future stars, Orton and Cena, couldn't deliver even half as well as Taker, HBK, and even Steamboat.

I can't really blame Cena since that match was probably as good as it was going to get and it wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Like above posters have said, that match at least served its purpose. However, Orton vs Triple H was incredibly boring, which was quite disappointing considering how intense the build up was. It probably had the best build up out of any WM25 match but it was one of the worst matches on the card. Orton was pushed to the moon with this storyline only to get shoved back down by Triple H. There was absolutely no reason for Triple H to go over except to massage his own ego.


When guys like Hulk Hogan left, WWE went into a slump but Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, and Bret Hart were the leaders of that time period. Then came the Austin era along with Triple H and The Rock and the slump ended. Now WWE is back in that slump again because they don't have any megastars to lead the next era. Sure, new stars will come in but right now it doesn't seem that WWE has anyone in mind to lead the new generation. Cena is already on top but not everyone is behind him obviously, since I think Edge actually was the fan favourite of the Triple Threat match. It seemed like WWE had their sights set on Orton but after WM25 I'm not so sure any more.