The Black Hole

[Arkham Noir]

"It sucks to hear that people lost jobs today. From what I hear that place is a black hole anyway. Alot of peeps are miserable going to work. They dont understand what talent is. They would rather hire a jackass that don't know nothing about the biz rather than someone that loves it and pay pennies on the dollar to get someone to sign their life away. I think that the talent should think about making the jump. I thank god everyday for my chance to be family with TNA. From the office to talent in TNA it's nothing but fun. All I can say is @tnadixie thank you for bringing me into the family. I love going to work. Hogan F'N rocks. I wear TNA colors with pride and will bust my ass to better the company.TNA TNA TNA TNA."



This was posted on the main page here and is a quote from Shannon Moore about the recent stars that were released by WWE.You might be wondering as to why I would put something regading TNA in the WWE section opposed to the TNA section or even the TNA vs WWE section, but it's very simple.The line "sign their life away" hit me. because I've been thinking about this for awhile...

Alot of people complain of how guys are unable to live up to their potential or that they never get over with their gimmicks. Alot of the guys in WWE are given some absolutly awful gimmicks, yet do them anyways. Than their are the guys that are shoved down our throats until we just come to accept them. ala Sheamus. I belive that this all comes down to the real problem with wrestling today. Hold on folks, this is going to be a long one.

Forget everything I have ever said about wrestling.I've had alot of time to think lately and have been thinking of the buisness as whole. One of the things are started thinking about was WWE's place in the wrestling world.As much as it may seem this way, WWE isn't the be all end all of wrestling, but their is no denying that WWE changed what wrestling was into what it is. Than I started comparing Wrestling to the music buisness and the whole thing just clicked and it became simple;

WWE is to wrestling as MTV is to Music.

This stament could be taken different ways but I'm going to address it like this; both wrestling and music are, at the root of it all, a passion. Making good music is something that is in your heart to do and no matter how hard someone tries you can't fake that feeling. The same holds true for wrestling, alot of guys just don't last because they don't love wrestling. They saw the glory that comes with it but didn't really love it. This is essentially the basics.

Where this changes is simply one word; Money.

Both MTV and World Wrestling Entertainment decided to take this art form that compltly captivated people and turned it into a money mill. It was no longer about conecting with the fans , but about making cash. Through doing this, both wrestling and music became corprate machines that take someone who look good, put them in the corprate branding machine, pops out a genric model with very little true talent and voila, instant star. To make it in the WWE and main stream music you basically have to "sign your life away" as Moore put it.Nothing is worse in the music buisness than a sell out and wrestlers do this without a second thought to join WWE with the dreams of becoming famous and making money. Guys will let themselves be humiliated byond belief in front of millions of people because they foolishly think it is going to get them somewhere. Don't even get me started on what the women go through. Women have to sell their bodies and any talent they may or may not have becomes irrelavant. While the men I'll compare like this; The overly muscular guys who are at avreage wrestling ( if that) ability are like Hip-Hop music, recent hip-hop music. I'm takling about the petty synthesizer made songs with nothing but " I like hoes and money" lyrics. It's a fast way out and makes them money, but in the grand scheme of things really does nothing for the art form as whole. Just makes money.

Some of you are probaly going to defend the fact that money is what matters in a buisness, for both WWE and MTV. But the bottom line is that what both of the corrupters do to their talent/performes is down right appalling. Musicains in main stream media are told what to say, how to say it, and who they are. Now that might seem really bad but replace the term musicians with wrestlers and I think you can see the overall connection I'm trying to make. I'm not trying to covince you, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to put this out there because I really love both music and wrestling and to see them destroyed by being branded, labeled, and put on a billboard for sale really disheartnes me as a person. I really hope the day comes where these corprate entities lose their monopoly stranglehold and people wake up and begin to re-appreciate them for what they are truly worth.

Thanks for taking the time to read.

 

[Big Sexy]

I might take Moore's statement a little more serious if he wasn't a hypocrite. This is the same guy that was in TNA after being released by the WWE, then as soon as WWE gave him another chance in 2006 and offered him a contract, he dipset real quick.

Yes the WWE is about making money, but it's not like they're just doing whatever the fuck they want and completely disregarding the fans. The WWE just does what is best for business. If a guy is over enough then he is going to get some kind of push and if a guy fails at the top then they aren't going to keep him there. Some guys at the top may be less deserving then some of the mid card guys but not everyone is going to be happy. There are a lot of wrestling fans with a lot of different opinions about what they want to see. The WWE tries to do what is best for business. It's not always popular but it's better to be hated by some people and be at the top then be loved by everyone and be out of business.

 

[wushady]

I totally agree with you I just think Shannon Moore looks like a jackass with his comments. If TNA is so great why did he leave them high and dry back in '06 to go back to WWE?

I doubt they wouldn't have brought him back if he wasn't friends with Jeff Hardy. They had no interest in him after WWE released him a second time. He showed up with Hardy on the January 4th Impact, but wasn't used again till Hardy signed a contract. I would say that shows they only took him cause Hardy asked them to. Now he has all this TNA pride will see what happens when Hardy leaves I'm sure he'll be gone and bashing TNA from the indies.

 

[TokiRKO]

neon, you are fucking GOD lol. I've been racking my brain for weeks trying to think of that exact analogy and i just couldn't. TNA has PASSION. Their wrestlers LOVE to wrestle. WWE is about, in VINCE'S OWN WORDS ''Da Monaaay''. John Cena is shoved down our throats for the kids. Panic ensues where there is blood because of KIDS. Why? Because kids all ways get what they want, and if they want Cena shirts, They're gonna fucking sell. TNA mirrors ECW's old motto, love what you do, fuck the money. Look how many LOYAL followers ECW had. They didn't have a lot, but every fucking person was LOYAL. I honestly think Hammerstein would have fucking been torn down if Cena won the match with RVD years ago. The fact that TNA brings in old ECW alumni AND USES THEM shows that. WWE is great for kids, hillbillies, and people who just don't care about quality. People still care about britney spears and paris hilton. But for the diehard wrestling fan who considers it a passion, TNA is what to watch.

All in all, you hit the nail on the head. WWE is the pop music of wrestling. Cena IS N'Sync. Fuck the fans, fuck the passion, just give me that fat fucking check. REAL musicians don't care about their ''crib'' and REAL wrestlers aren't concerned about fast cars and big houses...cept flair but he's senile so he doesn't count. Even people like Kennedy and AJ Styles cares about the fans, they just realise that the bigger pop comes from boos rather than cheers. And that's true also. EVERY ONE hates the bad guy, for the most part. But most people only cheer certain wrestlers. I for one love Kennedy, I just can't help but love some one who talks that much and that loud and who is willing to say ass hole on TV lol. As for this post being long, I decided to send an homage to the FIRST thread I read that long by replying with a post as long lol

 

[TokiRKO]

As for the people who are marking out on Shannon leaving TNA for WWE, it was a different time in 06. TNA was barely known and WWE was at least a little better than it is now. And who knows, he may have needed money badly. I can't see some one like Moore getting a job at Wal Mart part time to help pay bills and I doubt TNA could pay him much back then considering they had a lot of talent and probably paid per match, which would mean he didn't get much considering he wasn't used very much

 

[TCBT]

Both MTV and World Wrestling Entertainment decided to take this art form that compltly captivated people and turned it into a money mill. It was no longer about conecting with the fans , but about making cash.

Here's where I disagree with a lot of the IWC. Anyone that's ever opened any kind of business HAS to have the goal of making money. Otherwise, the business will fail. WWE is a business centered around entertainment, so if the fans aren't happy, the business isn't making money. So while I totally agree that Vince's main motive is to make money, he does so by connecting to fans. But like any entertainment medium, which is a subjective medium, not everyone will like or dislike your product.

MTV isn't a bad example, but let's use this one: any movie producing studio WANTS to make people happy. Why? Because it makes them money. They want to produce the next big summer hit, which will only produce money if the audience wants to see it. WWE is no different.

Also, everyone is responsible for themselves. It shocks me that Vince McMahon gets away with having a business which ALL of his employees belong to no union. But who's to blame for that?? Vince, by law, should NEVER be able to get away with that, but he does. If the wrestlers rather work for the "big leagues" and sign their lives over, then so be it. Obviously, being in the bigger company is their priority over being in a smaller company that takes care of its wrestlers better. That's their choice.

 

[TokiRKO]

TCBT i see where you went with that by saying every business's goal is to make money, but what Neon mean, from what i could tell, was that WWE has enough money to make it no problem and he's become too lazy to care about the fans. Kids are easier to entertain than adults and he's moved that way. More money, Less effort. Of course TNA needs to make money, but they also still care about the fans to the point where that's their main concern. Money should be a goal, but fan base and quality should be above that. Of course that's a dead idea in today's society. That was the problem with ECW and Heyman, he cared about the fans and not about money at all. You MUST cover expenses and make enough extra to expand your show. I think TNA is doing a good job of evening it out. But only time will tell

You know, I just realised, this is one of the first threads to be all most 100% civilized and and not full of double digit IQ marks trying their hardest to make a semi valid point only to make themselves seem even stupider than they are lol

 

[Big Sexy]

TCBT i see where you went with that by saying every business's goal is to make money, but what Neon mean, from what i could tell, was that WWE has enough money to make it no problem and he's become too lazy to care about the fans. Kids are easier to entertain than adults and he's moved that way. More money, Less effort. Of course TNA needs to make money, but they also still care about the fans to the point where that's their main concern. Money should be a goal, but fan base and quality should be above that. Of course that's a dead idea in today's society. That was the problem with ECW and Heyman, he cared about the fans and not about money at all. You MUST cover expenses and make enough extra to expand your show. I think TNA is doing a good job of evening it out. But only time will tell

Trust me, TNA would trade places with the WWE in a second. You act like the WWE is run by a bunch of heartless savages who don't give a shit at all about the fans and that is just a ludicrous line of thinking. Of course the WWE cares about the fans. Like I said earlier, there are many different types of wrestling fans and not all of them are going to be pleased with the product at the same time.

 

[Hawkeye]

they way shannon put it just sounds upsetting.made me kind of sad to think that my favorite superstars could actually be unhappy with what they're doing.

i think we should cut WWE some slack.once the attitude era came about and ended times had changed.Vince and company decided that they wanted to have a cultural impact on society and now it's become a product that(in theory) is marketable to everyone.they even goes as far as doing things like the wrestlemania reading challenge charity services and even public works projects.in my mind i think that both TNA and WWE can coexist and bring pro wrestling to a level it's never been.TNA has that edgy,attitude era feeling to it, and WWE gives us the more theatrical version of wrestling and they use their wealth and star power to positively effect society.i watch both shows no problem,but it took me a while to get used to TNA.now i'm at a good balance and i'm into wrestling twice as much as i was as a kid.

but i sincerely hope it's not a black hole

 

[Lee]

I had to laugh at the line "They don't know what talent is" erm yeah they do Shannon. that's why they fired your ass. Big Sexy hit the nail on the head, if this was coming from someone like Kurt Angle then it would be a lot more credible, but the fact is it's coming from Shannon Moore. Moore was with TNA for about three months the last time, he didn't have a contract and went on a pay as you play deal. You know what happened? WWE called him back up and he RAN at the opportunity. Check this interview with wwe.com in 2006, he had nothing but praise for them and even says " There were no hard feelings at all. They pretty much said it was a budget cut, because I wasn’t really involved in anything at the time." So he understands about budget cuts, and how money works, even how he likes the heavy WWE schedule but now he's ranting against this. Hypocrite.

 

[wushady]

Anyone who is on the road 300 days a year being away from their family putting their bodies through hell has to have a passion for the wrestling business. Of course their is a few guys in WWE who have lost their passion like Carlito and Benjamen. Benjamen is now gone and Carlito is a glorified jobber.

There may be a few guy's like Styles who would rather stay in the minor wrestling companies. Cause they don't want the traveling that comes with WWE. Wrestling is their career and they can't do it forever so they need to make is much money as they can while their still capable to do so.

Guy like Anderson, Moore, The Pope, and many others aren't in TNA cause their passionate about wrestling. Their only there cause WWE fired them. Many are their cause WWE never wanted them.

TNA is just as much a business as WWE of course they're in it for the money too. If their not they wont be around much longer. Dixie Carter is a business woman she doesn't have the passion for wrestling like Jarrett did when he started TNA.

I don't see how TNA cares more about they're wrestlers than WWE. They have no wellness policy. They allow them to bash each other in the head with weapons even after new evidence of the damage that concussions cause. They have guys blading almost every match.

 

[Lee]

But regarding the "Signing the life away" line, I would agree with that and I also feel that people need to understand what they have let themselves in for. Lets assume you're a WWE superstar....

Firstly if it's PPV week WWE have five shows a week, that is at least one opportunity for you to be on TV to quite a loyal fanbase. People can cope with that I'm sure, but there's the nitty gritty, there's the being in a restaurant with the mrs trying to have a quiet meal and a fan asks for an autograph. You sign it, you get on with it. You expect that.

However people need to realise there's more than this, there's the 300 days a year working all over the world night in, night out. The travel lifestyle where you need to be tip top all the time. Remember the last time you flew across the Atlantic? How tired were you? Exactly, now imagine you getting out of the airport and bam, fan already. You are constantly in your character, the real you is the alone time at home. I don't know how much of the emotional side is dealt with in training, but it would be a good thing to look at.

Yeah TNA have that too, but no where near the gruelling schedule, which is why the likes of Stevie Richards are there and still doing their side projects like T4 or whatever his show's called.

 

[LigerBomb]

First and foremost Pro wrestling is a business who's goal is to turn a profit. That's why the term mark even exists. And this will never change. With that out of the way here's the deal:
Money allows for a kind of safety and comfort. Not having either breeds fear. For all humanity's achievements, we are still very atavistic in our survival instincts and in our fears of death and other unfortunate realities. Therefore if you live in a society that tries to ameliorate these instincts and fears via money, you live in a society that will have many people try and do whatever they can to have the most money possible. Even if it's via illegitimate and exploitative means. If you couldn't make money being a pro-wrestler most people wouldn't do it. And for good reason.
I once had a friend who was in a relationship with a very attractive girl. In fact I must admit though I love my friend like a brother, she was probably "too good" for him. To steal a cliche, he was a 6 or 7, and she was a hard 9.5-10. My buddy did anything and everything for her. Even took on two jobs throughout Jr. year of college to have the money he felt he needed to keep her in a certain lifestyle she deserved and should be accustomed to living.
I suppose she like him well enough but she was never patient or forgiving, constantly needy and jealous of his other time commitments, coveting of his finances, and drained him of all his resources. She even cheated on him twice, leading to temporary "breaks" and eventual make-ups. It was a one-sided affair where he lost almost everything he had to her and to this day would probably do again just because for him at least it was "true love".
By now you should see quite clearly what I'm about to say: Don't date women, buy prostitutes instead of girlfriends, at least then you're certain they're in it for the money and that you're a john and she's a trick.
No, no, I kid. Duh, wrestling is the girl and doesn't, and will never, care about you. It's a completely one-sided love affair. It's a knock down drag out fight. It's a fight to the death war. And it will almost always end in her favor, even when she convinces you it was your decision to "just be friends".
If you need to work two jobs because your not naturally gifted with the funds: Don't do it. If you can't devote every minute of every day to her: Don't do it. If you get upset when you find her courting and being approached by other suitors: Don't do it. If you're not prepared to be ignored, abused, and perhaps demeaned just in hopes she'll be nice some of the time: Don't do it. If you don't get that the only reason she keeps you around is to "please her" in whatever way she sees fit: Don't do it. Etc.,etc.,etc...
But... if you are going to do it, if you're too stupid or too "in love" to do otherwise, your goal should be to get as much sex as you possibly can, for as long as you can, even if it means riding that crimson wave once a month so at least years later when your wallets drained, you've STDs out the ass, and maybe even a paternity suite pending, you'll have tons of filthy stories and maybe even a few "amateur" pics and private videos --they're just for us baby i swear-- to prove to your friends that you actually bagged a 10 once.
No one is forcing wrestler to be wrestlers. It's a profession, a love, a passion, a disease, a dumb idea, an obsession, perhaps even a devotion or calling at best and a maddeningly addictive self-destructive need at worst. But hey, if you can find a way to turn a profit, and get something back for all you gave that's better than nothing. Chase that fucking 10 while you can. We all know you'll eventually settle down with that 6 anyway, so why rush the inevitable?

 

[EliteDiva]

I dont entirely beleive in all your quotes! If you noticed WWE is targeting kids to promote it in a way! Kids r the future so they hope to maintain their loyalty in the future. This is really a creative plan but to all the people who mentions money, they r a buisness for crying out loud. TNA,WWE,WCW they promote for wealth and fame! Im tired of people criticizing the WWE when they r like TNA. It seems that WWE is selfish because their publically known so u would notice. Sorry if I was unclear.

 

[Poɘt]

Great post, Neon. I think you hit the nail on the head. For a while I've asked myself why WWE pushes the people it does and has the angles it does. Basically, for the most part, pushing the least polished talent (and in Swagger/Sheamus case, the least popular), and running with angles that make the show overly predictable. This confused me because WWE has a strangle hold on wrestling fans and the wrestling industry, so if they started pushing the talented in-ring performers, and had more mature storylines, I have no doubt they would still continue to make a lot of money.

But WWE sees how much easier it is to have slow outdated matches, which I guess takes away any chance of injury in their minds (but ironically enough WWE talent get injured way more than TNA's), which in turn allows WWE to get the most money out of that talent since they can stay on the road all year long (which is unhealthy in such a physical industry). With the predictable storylines, they have no choice but to target children because a mature audience would eventually turn the channel.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Yes the WWE is about making money, but it's not like they're just doing whatever the fuck they want and completely disregarding the fans.

Really? When's the last time they did something that the fans requested. Even if it was stupid. Everything we ever wanted we never got. Instead we got the exact opposite, as if the people who run it are doing it for kicks.

Vince is a smart, smart man and he makes people such as you ( no offense intended ) believe that what he's doing is the best business move he could ever make. He's floating on his hype, excuse me, on his company's hype. People figure that since it's McMahon he does it in the best way, he does the biggest impact, and even when his decisions are straight out stupid you have to doubt YOURSELF because it's Vince McMahon and he turned WWE into what it is/was. That way such promotions as TNA who actually try to be a tad bit different, who try to dish out a better product and constantly listen to their fans expecting feedback and constructive criticism ( not smark talk ), is actually considered a low-life promotion filled with ex-WWE Rejects.

TNA, ROH and just about any other wrestling company on this planet will always be compared to WWE's glitz and glam and be neglected and disregarded by the brainwashed WWE fans. Or at least a majority.

Because that's what Vince has accomplished. He brainwashed a big chunk of the current wrestling fanbase into believing his product is the best out there simply because of that "W" logo with the upside down "Nike" streak. That's why WWE is getting a 3.0 on a horrible show and TNA got 1.0 when their show was obviously much better, and has been for quite some time now.

One of the many reasons why WWE lost a fan ( me ) was the boldness and arrogance of the people who run it, and the sheepish behavior of its employees. Not to mention the dumbed down quality of what WWE used to be.

Vince has lost his touch and maybe his mind. I hope people realize it, and do it quickly. This is not a TNA propaganda even though I am a TNA fan. Instead this is a little hope of mine, to save wrestling. Cuz hey, I watch WWE from time to time and I don't see wrestling, I see segments.

Vince preaches that his company is geared towards entertainment but he doesn't understand that we, the WRESTLING fans, we get entertainment THROUGH a wrestling match and a match-relevant segment.

Saying that you watch Wrestling because of the entertainment value of segments, glitz, glam, decors, pyro and cookie-cutter production is like saying that you watch porn for the acting.

 

[NoDamnMercy]

LigerBomb, that was one of THE BEST posts I have ever seen. I think if you told me the sky was green, I would believe you!

As far as the WWE goes, when the whole PG era started, I was pretty angry. I almost stopped watching bc I got so sick of the bad matches, more time spent on useless segments, and horrible gimmicks. But after reading some of the posts and opinions here, I understand it alot better now. Think back to the attitude era. It was great, fun to watch, etc. But only wrestling fans enjoyed it. It was really hard to get anyone else to like it. I tried to get a few friends to watch so I would have someone to watch it with. They hated it! Even going so far as to compare it to a soap opera.

I'm not saying that the PG era is good. In fact, for the most part I still hate it. But I understand the fact that VKM is trying to get kids involved, so later on when the WWE changes gears again, he'll have a fan base. Its a long buisness plan that he thinks will work.

In my opinion, I think instead of a PG, it should be a PG-13ish style. That way you can have more fun with it, and still have kids enjoy it.

 

[TCBT]

As far as the WWE goes, when the whole PG era started, I was pretty angry. I almost stopped watching bc I got so sick of the bad matches, more time spent on useless segments, and horrible gimmicks. But after reading some of the posts and opinions here, I understand it alot better now. Think back to the attitude era. It was great, fun to watch, etc. But only wrestling fans enjoyed it. It was really hard to get anyone else to like it. I tried to get a few friends to watch so I would have someone to watch it with. They hated it! Even going so far as to compare it to a soap opera.

I'm not saying that the PG era is good. In fact, for the most part I still hate it. But I understand the fact that VKM is trying to get kids involved, so later on when the WWE changes gears again, he'll have a fan base. Its a long buisness plan that he thinks will work.

The thing about a big business like the WWE, is that it HAS to evolve. If the Attitude Era would still be around, the company would probably be broke by now. Lawsuits were happening all too often, drug use was becoming more apparent, and their main demographic got older. The WWE was on a fast downward spiral BEFORE it went PG. I don't like the PG-WWE any more than the next guy, but I respect their move. It was smart business to have the Guest Hosts of RAW regardless of how unpopular that is with the IWC. It hasn't been as successful as the WWE had hoped, but the company has still seen an incline since they started the whole Guest Host bit last year. And as for the writing, I don't understand why so many people find it stale and boring. I think the storylines have more realism to them, and for the most part, are very consistent. You don't see Orton trying to kiss babies and help old ladies cross the street now that he made a major babyface turn do you? That wasn't always the case before.

When's the last time they did something that the fans requested. Even if it was stupid. Everything we ever wanted we never got. Instead we got the exact opposite, as if the people who run it are doing it for kicks.

Vince is a smart, smart man and he makes people such as you ( no offense intended ) believe that what he's doing is the best business move he could ever make. He's floating on his hype, excuse me, on his company's hype. People figure that since it's McMahon he does it in the best way, he does the biggest impact, and even when his decisions are straight out stupid you have to doubt YOURSELF because it's Vince McMahon and he turned WWE into what it is/was. That way such promotions as TNA who actually try to be a tad bit different, who try to dish out a better product and constantly listen to their fans expecting feedback and constructive criticism ( not smark talk ), is actually considered a low-life promotion filled with ex-WWE Rejects.

TNA, ROH and just about any other wrestling company on this planet will always be compared to WWE's glitz and glam and be neglected and disregarded by the brainwashed WWE fans. Or at least a majority.

I have absolutely NO idea what you mean by "Everything we ever wanted we never got." What did we want????

The WWE sends its wrestlers to the Make-a-Wish Foundation, the troops in Iraq, and overseas to wrestle in countries they don't need to go. On top of that, they have a Wellness Policy that seems to be pretty accurate and strict. Now, there are no chair shots to the head. Former wrestlers can go to AA at WWE's expense. So while I still stand by my point that Vince has gotten away with labeling his employees as "self-employed" (aka non-union, which I have really no idea how he's doing that), there is still a sense of care within the company.

And I totally disagree with your point on TNA trying to be different. How?? What are they doing different that WWE hasn't already done?? Besides Pope, which TNA wrestling character hasn't been seen in the WWE before?

And let's not forget TNA's prime representative is Hulk Hogan, who isn't necessarily seen as someone who has ever been in a wrestling company purely for love of the sport or the fans. He'll say that as long as a big fat check comes with it. Or so I have understood.

 

[harrythem]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, don't you hear at pretty much every single TNA show the chant "Fire Russo" and, on all TNA and wrestling forums in general "Fire Russo". Hell I went to the TNA show at Wembley Arena and heard people asking Dixie to her face to "Fire Russo" yet, the man is still there. How is that giving people what they want?

Fact is Vince has a public company and has to answer to share-holders. WWE has been on fire for the last few months (aka Mania season) and that's been with the PG restrictions. Although PG kinda sucks from my point of view, the fact is I've recently had a child and, from a parents point of view, I'm a lot happier now that, when my son's old enough to have a clue and copy the stuff on tv, he's not going to be telling me to "piss off" or sticking his middle finger up or doing the more adult stuff.

So, I can see the PG thing from both sides of the coin but no-one makes anyone sign those contracts, they choose to sign them?

And, hey, let's just be thankful that Vince is smart enough to keep his in-house talent meetings off tv and not destroy kayfabe and wrestler morale by having them all sit side by side while he tells them either do it his way or get the f out. (I know that happens but at least the world doesn't see it).

 

[The Con Volt]

D

I had to laugh at the line "They don't know what talent is" erm yeah they do Shannon. that's why they fired your ass. Big Sexy hit the nail on the head, if this was coming from someone like Kurt Angle then it would be a lot more credible, but the fact is it's coming from Shannon Moore. Moore was with TNA for about three months the last time, he didn't have a contract and went on a pay as you play deal. You know what happened? WWE called him back up and he RAN at the opportunity. Check this interview with wwe.com in 2006, he had nothing but praise for them and even says " There were no hard feelings at all. They pretty much said it was a budget cut, because I wasn’t really involved in anything at the time." So he understands about budget cuts, and how money works, even how he likes the heavy WWE schedule but now he's ranting against this. Hypocrite.

See the problem with the original argument here is that the individual wrestlers are more money hungry than the companies themselves. I would assume that Shannon felt the same way in '06 as he does now about the WWE. The only diference now is that he's comfortable and probably has a little more job protection in TNA, so he figures he's gonna run that little mouth of his now against the company he's probably always had those feelings for. That's the big misconception here. The most money hungry intities in the wrestling industry are each individual wrestler. Cuz they will go from company to company, boss to boss, stadium to bingo hall, swallowing a big glass of their own pride because the money is right. So yeah, Shannon Moore is full of shit. But so is Kurt Angle, Booker T, Kevin Nash, The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Lex Luger and any other wrestler who's ever made a decision in their career based on money.

 

[robbo316]

Also, everyone is responsible for themselves. It shocks me that Vince McMahon gets away with having a business which ALL of his employees belong to no union. But who's to blame for that?? Vince, by law, should NEVER be able to get away with that, but he does. If the wrestlers rather work for the "big leagues" and sign their lives over, then so be it. Obviously, being in the bigger company is their priority over being in a smaller company that takes care of its wrestlers better. That's their choice.

The union point is an interesting one. Jesse Ventura attempted to start one many years ago, but someone went whining to VKM and doing a spot of ass-licking, and that man was......HOGAN. Who is now having his little ego trip in TNA. But it is not illegal to run a business where no-one has joined a union, if I am reading you right. Just thought I would make a point about the union. But back to Moore, I am constantly amazed that these little hypocritical, weasily, little drug taking freaks are actually listened to; The best thing I have always found to do, is to just say "whatever", turn around and talk to someone else. They eventually get the message and fuck off. Either that or kick their bollocks up around their tonsils, that usually has the same effect.

 

[mattropi]

I believe it was toki that said tna has passion. The wwe wrestlers are the ones with the passion. To give up your lives and family for doing something that you love, traveling all over the world, for 300 days out of the year, that is passion. The guys and gals in wwe know what they are getting themselves into when they sign on the dotted line. If tna had a cena type guy that they could market do you not think they would be doing that exact same thing wwe is doing. the bottom line is if you want to play in the big leagues you do whatever it takes. And to all the people that say they watch for the "wrestling" that is complete bullshit. I'ts not real wrestling people. I have been watching wwf-wwe for 23 years now. I watch it for all that it brings mostly entertainment. Do you ever go to a local high school to watch real wrestling matches. i dont think so. if it was 2 hours of guys just rolling around on a mat with each other it would be the gayest thing in the world.

p.s. mickie james please go back to porn. she's hot. i'm drunk.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

It's not a question of passion, far from it. Moore's just a bitter man. He had his chance with WWE and he failed at it. The whole 'they don't know talent' is bull. If they don't know talent then how come they're the only company left standing following the Monday Night Wars? How come they're making money every year? Exactly. Moore was hardly going to congratulate WWE on the releases but his reaction is childish and the ravings of a bitter man.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Well to respond to that guy who quoted me whose name I didn't care to remember...

Indeed, TNA didn't fire Russo. Some love him, some hate him. But they do listen to a lot of people. The Nasty Boys aren't there anymore, are they? Sure, their departure wasn't solely based on the fact that nobody cared to CARE about them, but it sure as hell played a major part in it.

People don't like The Band - when's the last time you saw them do something of any significance on TV and take up lots of time.

How about all the feedback they request from people, all the internet web shows to promote their product. They obviously give a shit about the IWC to some extent, more than they would admit. When did WWE do that?

When did WWE actually push a guy we wanted to be pushed? No wait, let me reprhase that, when's the last time they pushed a guy we liked and didn't abandon him? How's John Morisson doing? Or maybe Kofi Kingston. Hey remember when Evan Bourne was on fire in ECW? And Swagger's little push ... you know, before he started jobbing to Santino. You know, before he won the World Title. Dolph Ziggler is a great talent. Beating up big guys every week, outsmarting them and now...now he's...well..um...err...oh yeah, he's a nothing. When's the last time they had a champion we actually wanted? I bet SHeamus' huge fan base helped him get the strap. I mean, he was on RAW for a month, I'm surprised he didn't debut with the title. Bet working out with Tripsie proved better than working your ass off.

Did we ever want Sheamus? Did we ever want Swagger? I don't think so. Swagger is a great talent, don't get me wrong. It was a nice move, but the guy doesn't deserve the title so soon and obviously they make it seem like just about any new pissant can win it these days and that's degrading.

How about the endless bitching, crying and moaning by fans all around the globe, caused by the Hornswoggle saga and him beating Chavo week in and week out. Did WWE take notice? Yeah, you bet they did. Note the sarcasm. If you count stopping it after three straight months of same match, same mexican, same midget, different stipulation 'taking action' then go ahead.

Fact that the matter is, TNA is doing everything in their power to please their fans, while Vince and the WWE are doing everything in their power to shove things down our throats and keeps their pockets full to the max. They create these new "superstars" which we're supposed to perceive as big time just because they held World Gold....until they lose it to John Cena who by the freaking way doesn't need the title in the first place, he's popular enough on his own and I don't think a Title around his waist will improve his drawing power nor hurt it. Are you kidding me? WWE's hurting my intelligence and I find cheap moves like that insulting to me and any self-respecting wrestling fan out there.

"He holds the title! Now believe he's good and cheer for him."

It's desperate and not to mention sad.

I used to love WWE back in the day. It's funny how hypocritical they are these days. Remember "Right to Censor"? Remember Kurt Angle and his PG Behavior and how much WE all hated the fact that they were goodie two shoes? Remember Rocky Maivia?

Well it seems to me like WWE is actually RAN by "Right to Censor" and Mr.Abstinence Kurt Angle and Rocky.

Oh what, their prohibit chair shots and I'm supposed to think Vince gives a damn about his talent's health? Yeah, ding dong, NOW you realize it when they started dropping like flies. And even then, when they do absolutely nothing but punch and kick in the ring, they STILL get injured while TNA guys who do and were doing crazy ass shit for 7-8 years now are still going strong with barely any serious injuries. Can you tell the difference between shitty talent and top notch talent? I freaking hope so.

- What is TNA trying to do that WWE never did? Well, how about the whole ReAction thing. The "real" backstage scoop. I personally enjoy it. I know it's a worked shoot type of thing but hey they put some thought into it and it looks realistic.

- TNA basically being the only wrestling promotion out there to utilize Facebook, Twitter and YouTube in the best possible way to show people what they're all about.

- Or maybe the fact that they push people because of their talent, not who they work out with or how far they're up someone's ass.

- Perhaps their storylines which seem too complicated to the simple minded WWE fan, TOO used to "You attacked me, I tell you how much I like you and then we face off".

- Maybe it's their new "ranking system". From what I hear even FANS would be able to vote on who should be a number one contender and all that crap. Oh my, that's so ignorant, right?

So I don't know, YOU tell ME, what is TNA doing different? Aside from being a WRESTLING company filled with WRESTLERS, I don't see a DAMN similarity between them. Oh yes, and a four sided ring with red ropes.

Now go ahead and tell me how much TNA looks like WCW.

--

Onto Shannon Moore. I agree that he's a tattooed whack job but I've not heard that oppinion only from him. Initially I thought it's just some random banter by angry ex-WWE employees who just want to crap on the company for firing them but it doesn't seem that way. If you have at least one braincell on active duty you'll figure it out.

These guys are literally on the road almost all year long. I bet them big dough they earn is pretty sweet but I doubt they have time to spend it. Fact is, WWE is killing people's lives. People who actually want to have lives. A big company demands a lot, I agree, but I think they're abusing their control over their employees just a little bit. They suck the fun out of their guys and you can see it each and every week.

When's the last time you saw a WWE wrestler come out passionate and fired up. Ready to go. I sure as heck can't remember.

There's something very nasty and wrong with this company and we can all feel it. Gives me a bad vibe for some reason.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The goal of any business is to turn a successful profit, it's to make money. This is a concept that a surprising number of wrestling fans simply do not understand. Professional wrestling has always been a business. It's always been about making money, so don't believe the smokescreen that the "Prince of Punk" and the hopeless TNA marks have been spewing. The primary reason that TNA has brought in all these big names has been in an attempt to increase the size of its audience so they can generate more money.

I'd take the statement Moore put out more seriously if it had come from someone along the lines of Ric Flair. Moore is little more than a neverwas that hasn't been able to cut it in the big leagues. His single greatest accolade in pro wrestling right now is the fact that he's Jeff Hardy's flunky and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

It can always be bad to hear about wrestlers losing their jobs, but that's no different than it is in any other business or sport. In sports, you have athletes that get cut from a team's roster all the time and businesses lay someone off every single day of the week. I have no idea why some fans think that pro wrestling is exempt from these facts of business life. WWE wrestlers are signed to contracts that guarantee that they get paid whether they're used on television or not. Sometimes, there just isn't anything in the cards for some wrestlers and it only makes logical sense to let those wrestlers go instead of paying them for doing nothing. You never hear about this problem in TNA because the vast majority of their roster are signed to contracts in which they work on a paid by appearance basis. If they don't appear on the card, they don't get paid. TNA has a lot of wrestlers that aren't being used, but they can't go anywhere else until their contract has expired and they don't get paid since they're not being used. Homicide has reportedly asked to be released from his contract twice but TNA refuses. TNA isn't some warm, fuzzy, cuddly little bunny rabbit that all the people from management and in the locker room pet while singing "He's Got the Whole World in His Hands".

As to the part about signing your life away, well I'm sure there's some truth to that statement. The WWE's schedule is grueling, but what can you expect when working for a wrestling company that makes hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars a year? It takes a lot of time and effort to grow to the size of the WWE and to be able to take in that much money. And if a wrestler wants to have a piece of that action, to travel to exotic places, to make as much money in two weeks as your average person makes in a year, then there's going to have to be a trade off. If TNA wants to become as large and financially successful as the WWE, they'll eventually have to adopt such a schedule. They'll have to eventually travel all over the country or the world and be on the road for 300 days a year, make no mistake about it. The simple truth of it is that, as a company, TNA wants exactly what the WWE has right now and they'd switch spots with them in a heartbeat.