The Biggest Underlying Problem In WWE Now

[Savior of Silence]

First off, when you have more than 14 posts and have written a featured column on the main page... call me a jabroni (correct spelling) all you like... until then accept that not EVERYONE is going to either agree with the points made by the OP, or will have views of their own that will shed light onto the topic from other angles. As a great man one said "Like it, don't like it, but learn to live with it." If you can't, see my name on a post...skip past it rather than use pathetic insults.

I read the OP thread, but I didn't agree with the OP's assessment based on the title so made my own based on said title, that's what forums are for. I didn't however call him a Jabroni or any other disrespectful term for thinking it or making the thread. Face/Heel is the least of WWE's problems right now, they go far deeper to the fundamentals of their business, how they do it, who does it and whether people will continue to pay for it rather than "who to cheer for or boo", that part is easy.

So welcome to our forums although something tells me you're not new, merely rejoined, enjoy being a troll and the small amount of "feeding" you've just been given my friend. We're a happy welcoming bunch, but more posts like this and we will be very happy if you live up to your name and save silence for us...

Now let me tell you why you're being silly. I quoted YOUR post as a reference to everybody else because I completely agreed with it. Second of all, I said jabrone (read J-brone much like Konan says) and it wasn't even directed at you. I was directing it at the people that were arguing about the OP's post because they were both wrong and arguing incorrect points. I was referring them to your post - again - because I felt that everything you said was correct.

Nobody is trolling.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Unfortunately that wasn't clear. Indeed reading that implies that I am one of them arguing. Apologies if misunderstood, I guess that makes me the troll lol AWESOME, I always wanted to be one when I grew up.

To be fair the amount of TV isn't as big an issue because it is a revenue generator. It needs to be that high for business reasons and there is more than enough talent, used right to make great TV for more hours as well. They are not used right 9 out of 10 time during those hours and that's a bigger problem.

 

[Savior of Silence]

Unfortunately that wasn't clear. Indeed reading that implies that I am one of them arguing. Apologies if misunderstood, I guess that makes me the troll lol AWESOME, I always wanted to be one when I grew up.

To be fair the amount of TV isn't as big an issue because it is a revenue generator. It needs to be that high for business reasons and there is more than enough talent, used right to make great TV for more hours as well. They are not used right 9 out of 10 time during those hours and that's a bigger problem.

It's all good bro. And I wasn't trying to undermine your reasoning, just adding a little more. Of course WWE bascially becoming the business is the root of the problem. I'd even go so far as to say it started when McMahon started raiding territories for all the best talent.

Granted it was a smart move business-wise but once the AWA disappeared it was only a matter of time before we were left with only one company.

 

[laodaron]

Business 101: The paying customers are NEVER the problem. Businesses exists to serve their paying customers and cater to their wants in exchange for money. When businesses stop doing that they no longer have any reason to exist and will, in fact, stop existing as those paying customers start taking their money elsewhere.

Those fans you're so contemptuous of are the WWE's paying customers.

As someone that's actually in business, I can assure you that this is the fastest way to failure possible. The customer is quite often wrong, fickle, indecisive, and whiny. The business that's actually an industry leader knows how to manufacture their own product. The secret is in tricking the customer into constantly purchasing your product without realizing they don't need to.

Catering to the customer is literally the least sensible thing stated in this thread so far. And it is most certainly NOT business 101.

The problem with the product right now is the IWC, fantasy bookers, and basement dwelling marks that think that they can outbook the WWE creative team, which is idiotic. They take over shows, they take over chants, they ruin the experience for live crowds and home audiences, and they don't care.

That being said, some of the WWE fans are some of the worst customers in the entire world. If a fan is at a live show, and doesn't cheer the good guy or boo the bad guy (unless that wrestler is just bad, in which case silence is the appropriate response) then they have essentially hijacked the WWE's product, and at that point, they are hostile customers. They no longer fit into the mold of someone the WWE needs to market to. That's why HHH gets away with working those marks every chance he gets. I can't wait to watch him bring up Kevin Steen, Prince Devitt, and KENTA so the idiot marks will lose their shit and then watch their heroes fail. Indy wrestling can almost NEVER make it in the WWE. The WWE requires too much work ethic and skill. Punk and Bryan are the exception, not the rule.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

As someone that's actually in business, I can assure you that this is the fastest way to failure possible. The customer is quite often wrong, fickle, indecisive, and whiny. The business that's actually an industry leader knows how to manufacture their own product. The secret is in tricking the customer into constantly purchasing your product without realizing they don't need to.

Catering to the customer is literally the least sensible thing stated in this thread so far. And it is most certainly NOT business 101.

The problem with the product right now is the IWC, fantasy bookers, and basement dwelling marks that think that they can outbook the WWE creative team, which is idiotic. They take over shows, they take over chants, they ruin the experience for live crowds and home audiences, and they don't care.

That being said, some of the WWE fans are some of the worst customers in the entire world. If a fan is at a live show, and doesn't cheer the good guy or boo the bad guy (unless that wrestler is just bad, in which case silence is the appropriate response) then they have essentially hijacked the WWE's product, and at that point, they are hostile customers. They no longer fit into the mold of someone the WWE needs to market to. That's why HHH gets away with working those marks every chance he gets. I can't wait to watch him bring up Kevin Steen, Prince Devitt, and KENTA so the idiot marks will lose their shit and then watch their heroes fail. Indy wrestling can almost NEVER make it in the WWE. The WWE requires too much work ethic and skill. Punk and Bryan are the exception, not the rule.

That is the danger however, having all but destroyed the "food" supply for creating new talent they now have to rely on their way being "the right way" when it is totally unproven in reality. They are being accused of relying on too many high waged part timers... guys who learned THE OLD way. If WWE was going to bury the indy talent as you suggest then they would just do it and have Rusev, Bo and Reigns already as the top guys... they can't do that because the jury is still out on them all with the fans and they still need that "old school" mentality. Once it dies, it is gone... and WWE will live or die (likely die) on what it can produce itself.

THAT is the quickest way to go out of business, not listening to your fans... but dismissing resources and methods because "it's not our way" or "owned by us" or "our way is right...you are wrong and will do it our way or not at all". AOL tried that by dismissing WCW and look how that ended up for both of them them...AOL is barely a thing any more, just a name on a company.

 

[laodaron]

I didn't say nor did I imply that they would bury them. Rather, I said that they would fail. Average WWE fans have no interest in what Kevin Steen, KENTA, or Prince Devitt do. They want to see what John Cena and Brock Lesnar do. They care about the people that LOOK like WWE Superstars. The vast majority of fans are casual, and have no interest in another out of shape 30 year old that just does chain spot wrestling. The problem is that HHH is listening to the IWC and hiring these guys, and they're basically guaranteed to fail because they don't have the ethic or the skillset to succeed in the WWE.

Also, comparing what AOL did to WCW to current WWE is disingenuous. AOL didn't want wrestling on TV anymore. WWE only cares about wrestling on TV.

The old way is the only way. The WWE tried the new way, in the 2003-2008 period, and it was a massive failure. People fled the product like no one's business except the bloodthirsty ECW types. Only now is the WWE able to rebound from that exodus. Another issue is that YouTube, Vimeo, Dailymotion, etc. all exist. Almost everyone I know doesn't have cable anymore. My parents and some older people, and that's about it. The product is evolving, but it has nothing to do with a botching spotmonster from Chikara not getting enough of a shot in the WWE.

 

[Alastor]

The IWC type fans are the biggest underlying problem in WWE now. Anything WWE does is instantly labelled predictable, boring if they follow a logical script. If they flip it, it becomes wtf are they doing, part timers suck, his push is doomed to fail. Everyone not my favourite is playing politics or is overpushed. My favourite is being buried by not winning one match.

And also there is a difference between hearing what the fans want and pandering to them. Fans want everything, and nobody can provide that. Indie band that became big suddenly has no appeal to indie fans. Seems like fans that blame WWE just wants them to pander to them instead of wanting to be entertained. Just because it worked once more than 15 years ago because WWE was desperate doesn't mean pandering to fans impulses will work again.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I didn't say nor did I imply that they would bury them. Rather, I said that they would fail. Average WWE fans have no interest in what Kevin Steen, KENTA, or Prince Devitt do. They want to see what John Cena and Brock Lesnar do. They care about the people that LOOK like WWE Superstars. The vast majority of fans are casual, and have no interest in another out of shape 30 year old that just does chain spot wrestling. The problem is that HHH is listening to the IWC and hiring these guys, and they're basically guaranteed to fail because they don't have the ethic or the skillset to succeed in the WWE.

Also, comparing what AOL did to WCW to current WWE is disingenuous. AOL didn't want wrestling on TV anymore. WWE only cares about wrestling on TV.

The old way is the only way. The WWE tried the new way, in the 2003-2008 period, and it was a massive failure. People fled the product like no one's business except the bloodthirsty ECW types. Only now is the WWE able to rebound from that exodus. Another issue is that YouTube, Vimeo, Dailymotion, etc. all exist. Almost everyone I know doesn't have cable anymore. My parents and some older people, and that's about it. The product is evolving, but it has nothing to do with a botching spotmonster from Chikara not getting enough of a shot in the WWE.

No... WWE may want that but Vince doesn't WANT IT TO BE WRESTLING AT ALL! That's the problem, as much as his ego... he's actually ashamed of old fashioned wrestling... that's why it has to be "more". WWE's place in the "real estate" of Entertainment was bigger when they were about Wrestling... now they're not, they compete with everyone and do 90% of it less well than their rivals. Vince is exactly what AOL were, he doesn't want to be called Wrestling and would drop the word if he could, although one W on his logo would look stupid. The delivery methods are immaterial, it's the product being delivered that is key. People "deserted" in 03-08 because they realised they were not getting what they had loved for the 18 prior years. As in my original post, had Vince kept WCW seperate as he should have then those fans would have had a true alternative and the exodus would not have happened to the same level. That was my original point on Pepsi/Coke... if you could choose for 20 years you'll enjoy both and prefer one... if you suddenly get only one, cos the other is gone then you will get sick of it pretty quickly, even if it was your choice at the start.

 

[laodaron]

No giant industry leading corporation is still only doing what they started doing.

Google is not just a search engine.
Monsanto does not just make fertilizer.
Netflix no longer just sends DVDs to your house.
And the WWE is no longer only wrestling.

Corporations change as necessary or they fail. Vince knows that more people watch Raw on YouTube than ever before. He knows that more people watch PPVs on the internet than ever before. So he releases a technological leap in media that literally no one has done yet. Wait until the NBA and NFL and MLB start their own networks now. It's the start of something brilliant.

I wouldn't want to be called wrestling either, with TNA, RoH, CZW, etc. all in the markets calling themselves wrestling. I would want to be known as something much bigger, offering something much more. That's where Vince is at.

 

[Mudlup50]

No giant industry leading corporation is still only doing what they started doing.

Google is not just a search engine.
Monsanto does not just make fertilizer.
Netflix no longer just sends DVDs to your house.
And the WWE is no longer only wrestling.

Corporations change as necessary or they fail. Vince knows that more people watch Raw on YouTube than ever before. He knows that more people watch PPVs on the internet than ever before. So he releases a technological leap in media that literally no one has done yet. Wait until the NBA and NFL and MLB start their own networks now. It's the start of something brilliant.

I wouldn't want to be called wrestling either, with TNA, RoH, CZW, etc. all in the markets calling themselves wrestling. I would want to be known as something much bigger, offering something much more. That's where Vince is at.

I could be wrong but I could've sworn their was something similar in MLB. Like I had it on my PS3 and it would tell me the scores of the games and if I paid money I could watch it directly on my PS3

 

[laodaron]

There is, sort of. But it's not a content delivery service, it's more supplementary in nature. What the WWE has created is revolutionary, as it's a primary content delivery service.

Now, if MLB only offered some practice games and weekly games on ESPN/local channels, but then only showed their big games, their major events, like All-Star weekend and the playoffs on their channel, that would be more like what the WWE has created.

 

[Mudlup50]

There is, sort of. But it's not a content delivery service, it's more supplementary in nature. What the WWE has created is revolutionary, as it's a primary content delivery service.

Now, if MLB only offered some practice games and weekly games on ESPN/local channels, but then only showed their big games, their major events, like All-Star weekend and the playoffs on their channel, that would be more like what the WWE has created.

Well I mean no other sport has 12 big events a year. You figure all star game and playoffs is only 2. And unlike WWE there's a very good chance your team won't make it anyway I mean in WWE especially this year, you're gonna see your favorite regardless

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

As someone that's actually in business, I can assure you that this is the fastest way to failure possible. The customer is quite often wrong, fickle, indecisive, and whiny. The business that's actually an industry leader knows how to manufacture their own product. The secret is in tricking the customer into constantly purchasing your product without realizing they don't need to.

Catering to the customer is literally the least sensible thing stated in this thread so far. And it is most certainly NOT business 101.

The problem with the product right now is the IWC, fantasy bookers, and basement dwelling marks that think that they can outbook the WWE creative team, which is idiotic. They take over shows, they take over chants, they ruin the experience for live crowds and home audiences, and they don't care.

That being said, some of the WWE fans are some of the worst customers in the entire world. If a fan is at a live show, and doesn't cheer the good guy or boo the bad guy (unless that wrestler is just bad, in which case silence is the appropriate response) then they have essentially hijacked the WWE's product, and at that point, they are hostile customers. They no longer fit into the mold of someone the WWE needs to market to. That's why HHH gets away with working those marks every chance he gets. I can't wait to watch him bring up Kevin Steen, Prince Devitt, and KENTA so the idiot marks will lose their shit and then watch their heroes fail. Indy wrestling can almost NEVER make it in the WWE. The WWE requires too much work ethic and skill. Punk and Bryan are the exception, not the rule.

Actually, what you're describing isn't business it's a scam. It speaks volumes about the ethics of the day when people can't tell the difference between the two.

 

[laodaron]

Actually, what you're describing isn't business it's a scam. It speaks volumes about the ethics of the day when people can't tell the difference between the two.

No, what I'm describing is an optional media product. People don't need cable TV, don't need internet in the home, don't need streaming media services, and don't need professional wrestling.

The purpose of BUSINESS is convincing people to spend their money on YOUR product that they don't actually need. It speaks volumes about education of the day when people can't tell the difference between the two.

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

No, what I'm describing is an optional media product. People don't need cable TV, don't need internet in the home, don't need streaming media services, and don't need professional wrestling.

The purpose of BUSINESS is convincing people to spend their money on YOUR product that they don't actually need. It speaks volumes about education of the day when people can't tell the difference between the two.

I never said anything about needs. Customers have wants and the point of business is identifying those wants and providing for them in exchange for money. Tricking them into wanting something that they don't want (and won't want again ten minutes after you have their money) is a scam.

I'd hazard to say I was educated before you were born.....back when they still taught business ethics which apparently they don't do anymore.

 

[laodaron]

I never said anything about needs. Customers have wants and the point of business is identifying those wants and providing for them in exchange for money. Tricking them into wanting something that they don't want (and won't want again ten minutes after you have their money) is a scam.

I'd hazard to say I was educated before you were born.....back when they still taught business ethics which apparently they don't do anymore.

You talk about being educated, but you're obviously very stupid. Very, very stupid.

Convincing a customer to spend their money on your product can never be a scam if you're giving them the product that they understand they are paying for. If the WWE promised to give you WWE content on the WWE Network and then only showed the WWE logo, THAT is a scam. If they promise to show WWE content and then show WWE content, and it's the amount they promised, then it is NOT a scam.

From the beginning of my comments, I made sure and drew a clear line between need and want. Convincing a customer that a want is a need is called marketing. You can try and muddy the line between need and want if you'd like, but I'm not going to entertain your attempts at trolling anymore.

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

You talk about being educated, but you're obviously very stupid. Very, very stupid.

Convincing a customer to spend their money on your product can never be a scam if you're giving them the product that they understand they are paying for. If the WWE promised to give you WWE content on the WWE Network and then only showed the WWE logo, THAT is a scam. If they promise to show WWE content and then show WWE content, and it's the amount they promised, then it is NOT a scam.

From the beginning of my comments, I made sure and drew a clear line between need and want. Convincing a customer that a want is a need is called marketing. You can try and muddy the line between need and want if you'd like, but I'm not going to entertain your attempts at trolling anymore.

Excuse me? You're the douchebag calling people "stupid" and you have the nerve to excuse ME of trolling? Ignored, as you're obviously not someone worth discussing anything with.

Btw, you might want to look up the definition of "troll" since you're obviously VERY confused about it.

 

[Catacomb]

As someone that's actually in business, I can assure you that this is the fastest way to failure possible. The customer is quite often wrong, fickle, indecisive, and whiny. The business that's actually an industry leader knows how to manufacture their own product. The secret is in tricking the customer into constantly purchasing your product without realizing they don't need to.

Catering to the customer is literally the least sensible thing stated in this thread so far. And it is most certainly NOT business 101.

The problem with the product right now is the IWC, fantasy bookers, and basement dwelling marks that think that they can outbook the WWE creative team, which is idiotic. They take over shows, they take over chants, they ruin the experience for live crowds and home audiences, and they don't care.

That being said, some of the WWE fans are some of the worst customers in the entire world. If a fan is at a live show, and doesn't cheer the good guy or boo the bad guy (unless that wrestler is just bad, in which case silence is the appropriate response) then they have essentially hijacked the WWE's product, and at that point, they are hostile customers. They no longer fit into the mold of someone the WWE needs to market to. That's why HHH gets away with working those marks every chance he gets. I can't wait to watch him bring up Kevin Steen, Prince Devitt, and KENTA so the idiot marks will lose their shit and then watch their heroes fail. Indy wrestling can almost NEVER make it in the WWE. The WWE requires too much work ethic and skill. Punk and Bryan are the exception, not the rule.

that is the most idiotic thing i have ever heard. fans cheer who they like, we bought the ticket we get to choose who to cheer. maybe its not the fans who are wrong but the wwe for casting people being cheered as villains and wrestlers being booed as faces. but no its the fans cheering the wrong guys, that is dumb and a good reason why ratings are down and the product is in the toilet.

 

[Kidpolean]

Business 101: The paying customers are NEVER the problem. Businesses exists to serve their paying customers and cater to their wants in exchange for money. When businesses stop doing that they no longer have any reason to exist and will, in fact, stop existing as those paying customers start taking their money elsewhere.

Those fans you're so contemptuous of are the WWE's paying customers.

this is wrong...the WWE might be a business but its also a tv show. Viewer input can 100% damage a show. Fans are pushing for wrestlers that don't fit society's definition of "cool." WWE can NOT both satisfy the IWC and its current fans while attracting new fans because current fans want technical wrestlers while new fans dont give a damn about how many submissions a wrestler knows. So the problem is that current fans dont want guys that are entertainers and not wrestlers but entertainers are what will bring in new viewers. The fans have put the WWE in a situation that they can't really grow as a company. Its either lose fans and pray that you go mainstream or stay stagnant while being loyal to a bunch of fans that will stop watching as soon as you don't push one of their favorites.