The Biggest Underlying Problem In WWE Now

[Mudlup50]

So I just watch Raw at this point because NXT isn't for me(they're gonna ignore what happens there anyway so why does it matter) and Smackdown serves no purpose(no title will change hands there and it's basically Raw 0.7). So all my knowledge comes from Raw and the past.

So I went to WWE.com and looked up the roster they have(interesting side note they say Rock, Rey Mysterio, Santino Marella and Undertaker are still there). Then I put every superstar on one side for being a face and the other side for being a heel. Granted some guys I didn't know where to put(Hunico, R Truth, Darren Young..those kind of guys), the Divas I had no idea at all aside from the Bellas and the last 2 divas champions. Then I eliminated all the divas. The list was still pretty balanced which is how it should be in theory. So then I eliminated anybody who isn't a former world champion...

So the face side now has 12 guys and the heel side has 5. Of course, of those 5...one is Triple H, one is Brock Lesnar and one is Kane. Which got me thinking even more, lets eliminate guys who are part time talent or who aren't ever gonna win it again(Kane, Mark Henry, Great Khali). So now...

Face side has 5 guys and the heel side has...2. The faces are: Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, John Cena and Sheamus. On the heel side, Randy Orton...and the Miz. Think about that for a second. This isn't an attack on part time talent, more an attack on the lack of heels.

I know you can turn a face heel pretty quickly so this probably isn't as big an issue as I think it is, but it seems alarming. With Del Rio leaving, Edge's early retirement and Punk leaving, almost no heel champions are still here. The ones who are, are faces now.

If the WWE is serious about Reigns/Lesnar at Mania. We have a new face but no new heel. Until Rollins cashes in, but as I mentioned in a previous post, they're trying to increase the length of title runs so dare I say Rollins might lose. They want super Reigns, people are predicting it. So then we're left with Miz and Randy Orton as the only viable opponents for Reigns. Plus we don't even know if the Miz is gonna be full time, so we have Orton left. Granted Bray is being built up as a dominant heel (9-4 at PPV's, 9-3 if you ignore MitB). But people are already flipping out about Bray not being good enough. Rollins doesn't seem likely to be in the main event for that long.

Has WWE shot themselves in the foot on this one? The lack of serious heels is an epidemic. If we stop looking at the main event and just look at who is a serious heel: Lesnar, Authority, Miz and Rusev. The rest get cheers or nothing at all. Ryback gets a feed me more chant, he'd get over as a face in an instant. Wyatts get cheers hence the dropping of "town name, we're here." Cesaro gets cheers as evident by the knocking out of the swing. Fandango is a sympathetic heel now, he might be getting a face turn soon hence the dumb angle with Layla and Summer Rae. Bo gets a cheer from the audience. Sandow and Slater are jokes at this point.

The IWC would flip if Miz wins the title, Rusev is a gimmick that will run dry soon. Lesnar apparently leaves after Mania. All we're left with is The Authority.

What can the WWE do to stop this? They need serious heels, no tweeners. It's bad that Cena gets more boos than quite a chunk of the heel wrestlers. How can they fix this? The audience cheers the bad guys nowadays.

Concluding questions: How do they fix this? Why is it like this now? And will this hurt them come next WWE year(Wrestlemania-Mania)

 

[L@RISANO]

So I just watch Raw at this point because NXT isn't for me(they're gonna ignore what happens there anyway so why does it matter) and Smackdown serves no purpose(no title will change hands there and it's basically Raw 0.7). So all my knowledge comes from Raw and the past.

So I went to WWE.com and looked up the roster they have(interesting side note they say Rock, Rey Mysterio, Santino Marella and Undertaker are still there). Then I put every superstar on one side for being a face and the other side for being a heel. Granted some guys I didn't know where to put(Hunico, R Truth, Darren Young..those kind of guys), the Divas I had no idea at all aside from the Bellas and the last 2 divas champions. Then I eliminated all the divas. The list was still pretty balanced which is how it should be in theory. So then I eliminated anybody who isn't a former world champion...

So the face side now has 12 guys and the heel side has 5. Of course, of those 5...one is Triple H, one is Brock Lesnar and one is Kane. Which got me thinking even more, lets eliminate guys who are part time talent or who aren't ever gonna win it again(Kane, Mark Henry, Great Khali). So now...

Face side has 5 guys and the heel side has...2. The faces are: Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, John Cena and Sheamus. On the heel side, Randy Orton...and the Miz. Think about that for a second. This isn't an attack on part time talent, more an attack on the lack of heels.

I know you can turn a face heel pretty quickly so this probably isn't as big an issue as I think it is, but it seems alarming. With Del Rio leaving, Edge's early retirement and Punk leaving, almost no heel champions are still here. The ones who are, are faces now.

If the WWE is serious about Reigns/Lesnar at Mania. We have a new face but no new heel. Until Rollins cashes in, but as I mentioned in a previous post, they're trying to increase the length of title runs so dare I say Rollins might lose. They want super Reigns, people are predicting it. So then we're left with Miz and Randy Orton as the only viable opponents for Reigns. Plus we don't even know if the Miz is gonna be full time, so we have Orton left. Granted Bray is being built up as a dominant heel (9-4 at PPV's, 9-3 if you ignore MitB). But people are already flipping out about Bray not being good enough. Rollins doesn't seem likely to be in the main event for that long.

Has WWE shot themselves in the foot on this one? The lack of serious heels is an epidemic. If we stop looking at the main event and just look at who is a serious heel: Lesnar, Authority, Miz and Rusev. The rest get cheers or nothing at all. Ryback gets a feed me more chant, he'd get over as a face in an instant. Wyatts get cheers hence the dropping of "town name, we're here." Cesaro gets cheers as evident by the knocking out of the swing. Fandango is a sympathetic heel now, he might be getting a face turn soon hence the dumb angle with Layla and Summer Rae. Bo gets a cheer from the audience. Sandow and Slater are jokes at this point.

The IWC would flip if Miz wins the title, Rusev is a gimmick that will run dry soon. Lesnar apparently leaves after Mania. All we're left with is The Authority.

What can the WWE do to stop this? They need serious heels, no tweeners. It's bad that Cena gets more boos than quite a chunk of the heel wrestlers. How can they fix this? The audience cheers the bad guys nowadays.

Concluding questions: How do they fix this? Why is it like this now? And will this hurt them come next WWE year(Wrestlemania-Mania)

A report came out some time ago saying that Vince basically told Creative that the concept of Faces and Heels was finished.


I can see why, since in today's world, Faces are booed and Heels are cheered. If you look at it, crazy characters are well received(Ambrose, Randy as the Viper gets some interest in him, AJ, etc.) whilst a Good Level Face usually gets the boring chants or in Cena's case, loads of boos.


Tbh, I think it is better for WWE if they try to pair two guys together and in today's environment, just let the fans decide who they want to cheer or boo. Of course, angles like the Patriotic type with Rusev will obviously have the heel being booed, but that is an exception at this point.


WWE should just concentrate on making good interesting storylines involving relevant Superstars....let the fans decide their own reactions as it could make a better product,lMO.

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

The biggest problem is that we have turned a new page as far as fans go. It isn't the older times where people would cheer the face and boo the heel. I remember watching Eddie vs Jericho back in WCW 1997, and Eddie was the heel and the people would boo him out of the building, something that would be extremely unlikely nowadays.

The fans will cheer whoever they like and boo / remain silent for whoever they dislike. That's it. It doesn't matter if you are a face or a heel.

 

[Sean Valjean]

They need heels that act like heels. Too many heels are either too cool to truly hate or always win cleanly and in impressive fashion. Hard to hate someone who constantly wins fair and square no matter how much they try to tell us that he's a bad person. It also doesn't help that heels have a tendency to be better-developed character wise, so they also need faces that have and equal amount of depth and style.

Look at Ambrose/Rollins. Rollins is one of the few heels that gets genuine heat because he committed a truly heinous act, is a coward that will take a shortcut whenever the opportunity presents itself, is a straight-up asshole, and he's up against a ridiculously entertaining foil in Dean Ambrose.

There are no split reactions when they clash. The crowd is always 100% behind Dean because he's so damn cool plus they want to see Rollins get what's coming to him, because Seth has done actual terrible things because he's good heel. Seth even toned down his high-flying to eliminate any reason for the people to like him.

My point is that we need more heels that are willing to do whatever it takes to be hated as well as more interesting faces to challenge them. Then everything will be gravy.

 

[GeneralKarim]

If the report of Vince telling creative to forget about the heel/face thing is true than this isn't a big problem.

It does makes a bit of sense in a way given how fans are these days. Tho the money is still on the heel/face dynamic.

Randy is getting booed and he seems to have become a master at feeding off of the crowd and interacting with them and Rollins is getting booed and constant "you sold out chants" because of his actions. But let us see how Rollins fairs as a heel against someone else. That's WWE's problem atm. As everyone constantly reminds everyone, heels arent heels anymore. Hell for all intents and purposes The Miz might be the best heel in WWE atm because even tho he might be considered a "cool"-er heel he's a narccisistic chicken shit heel who insults people constantly and brags way too much about his self-proclaimed a-list-ness ( a-list-ness, yes sue me! ).

Cesaro seems to be a heel but he is probably the worst heel ever because of his booking. He is basically a forced heel and nobody wants to boo the guy. He sometimes does heelish things but most of the time he's the reason people are in awe in matches that he is involved in.

Would be cool when Wyatt turns face that Rowan and Harper would feud with a heel Ascension, how cool would that be.

 

[Navi]

Maybe I'm missing something here on the OP. Where are guys like Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, Erik Rowan, Jimmy and Jay Uso, Cesaro and Rusev.

I think the main problem with the WWE is the lack of mixing it up. I'm tired of Orton/Reigns over and over again. It's like wash, rinse, repeat every week. Start putting some of these guys with others, not everything has to be an ongoing feud. Reigns had a good match with Del Rio, not like it's going to happen again with him being gone and all. He also had a good match with Miz.

That's why the Ambrose/Rollins feud is so great. Not only because of the participants, but because you never know what the hell is going to happen from one moment to the next. That's what the WWE needs to do more, give us the element of surprise.

 

[stingray11214]

Heels/Faces is a very simplistic reasoning. The problem is that WWE, and professional wrestling in general, forgot its roots. Question: Why do people play well, and look like gods in a bingo hall, Full Sail, or the local small auditorium, but look like crap when they go to Staples Center, Wachovia Center or the Garden? It is called intimacy. You felt like you were part of the experience. You got to feel the love for a face, or hatred for a heel. You also had people that could act the roles. You did not need a "creative" department, the wrestlers were! That is why CM Punk and Paul Heyman are damn good at what they do. They know how to act the role of an effective heel. Randy Orton and Trips are near that category. Problem is that is all the Titan Towers gang has!

What also hurts WWE is that they have 7 hours (!!!) of TV a week. Back when I started watching, my "sneaking up" 11:30 weeknight schedule was like this:

Monday - Championship Wrestling from Florida
Tuesday - California Wrestling (Olympic Auditorium)
Wednesday - Titanes del Ring (Argentina)
Thursday - Lucha Libre EMLL
Friday - All-Star Wrestling (WWWF)

My weekend watching was limited to two shows
Saturday - Lucha Libre from Puerto Rico
Saturday midnight - Championship Wrestling (WWWF)

Now, why do I mention this? All these shows were a combined 7 hours. Even better, you watched anywhere from 30-45 matches a WEEK. The promos were quick and simple. You did not have these 10-15 minute talkathons and filler like you have today. Today, you are lucky if you have 30-42 matches a MONTH. Worse yet, you will probably see the same 15-20 people during that month in EVERY match. They are tightly controlled and scripted by soap opera and TV writers. Back in the day, the wrestlers themselves met and went over with the promoter what would happen, and they went out and did it.

What Vince and Levesque need to do is to give more creative control to their talent. If they cannot create a scenario, you know they are not top people. Furthermore, they need to cut RAW and SmackDown by an hour each. 6-7 matches on RAW, 3-4 matches on SmackDown. Let Randy Orton and Rusev squash local talent. There is nothing wrong with those two destroying the likes of Grim Reefer, Jigsaw, and Ice Cream #1 on TV. People will STILL watch. And, guess what, people will hate them even more when they see some local version of Mohammad Saad gets carried out in a stretcher.

Just a couple of ideas from a not so old timer.

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

There are several underlying problems. The way in which WWE treats its audience is one of them. Look back to 1998 WWF and WCW were pulling in a weekly audience in the USA of 10.0 to 12.0; admittedly this won't be replicated because the internet and media has changed. But it should be around 6.0 and it is not. Because the WWE don't push "wrestlers" they push entertainment. PLUS they have this whole $9.99 angle at the moment that just annoys viewers. It means nothing to fans from overseas.

They keep Cena on top; but a heel turn would reinvigorate a career that has spanned 11 years - of which 10 years Cena has been the face of the business.

Smackdown is an afterthought too. But they need to promote the IC and tag division better too.

 

[WBL]

I agree with the general sentiment that they need to cut down a bit. Maybe focus more on a smaller pool of talent, maybe paring Raw back down to 2 hours, simply because there's just too much out there right now. If you're the kind of fanatic who will watch Raw, SmackDown, SuperStars and NXT, then you've probably already bought the Network at only $9.99 a month.

The only reason, IMO, they kept two shows as long as they have, when Raw was doing just fine, was (1) because WCW had a second show, and (2) because of the brand split, and getting members of two separate rosters screen time. We no longer have either of these mitigating factors.

 

[Mudlup50]

Maybe I'm missing something here on the OP. Where are guys like Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, Erik Rowan, Jimmy and Jay Uso, Cesaro and Rusev.

I think the main problem with the WWE is the lack of mixing it up. I'm tired of Orton/Reigns over and over again. It's like wash, rinse, repeat every week. Start putting some of these guys with others, not everything has to be an ongoing feud. Reigns had a good match with Del Rio, not like it's going to happen again with him being gone and all. He also had a good match with Miz.

That's why the Ambrose/Rollins feud is so great. Not only because of the participants, but because you never know what the hell is going to happen from one moment to the next. That's what the WWE needs to do more, give us the element of surprise.

You did miss something, my list only includes former world champions. So it's more a representation of the fact that the heels are leaving at an alarming rate

 

[laodaron]

It's not just that the face heel lines are blurred. It's that fans are shitty self-righteous fantasy booking assholes, for the most part. They spend their money to go and ruin a product for everyone else, and because of that, Vince is trying to outsmart them.

The fans have ruined the WWE, not Vince, not HHH, not Cena, not Creative, and not a lack of heels.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

It's hard to pinpoint one problem that is the root of all the problems but it really does come down to this... the moment WWE BECAME the wrestling business... by purchasing WCW, then they were always on a downward trajectory. Decisions made 13 years ago are now coming home to roost in the talent, corporate and entertainment landscape areas of the company.

From a corporate perspective "killing WCW" was a good outcome, not the right one though. Imagine tomorrow if Pepsi went bust forcing lovers of it to drink Coca Cola or their "version" of the brand going forward. You'd soon switch to a different type of drink altogether. Thats what happened with a large number of WCW fans (and then ECW fans) their favourite was killed, the roster amalgamated and killed in the "Invasion" leaving no choice other than weaker alternatives, certainly not a choice "worthy of a new generation".

Ego played the biggest part in this and it's arguably still the biggest negative factor that affects WWE as a company. That Vince McMahon is "always" right, and if he's not "he's the audience of one". Killing WCW was a win for Vince, but a big loss for the business... the correct outcome would have been letting Shane or someone else take the company on as a seperate entity, acknowledging the "win" but being "merciful" rather than delivering the coup de grace.

This affected talent generation in a negative way, most of the guys who "made it big" to the "Mania Headliner" level were already under contract when WCW was bought and in the fabled "Class of 02" down in OVW. The only real headliner that came from that buyout was Booker T and even then he was a tier down from WWE generated guys or those who made the jump before the buyout. I struggle to think of any other WCW talent who actually "got there"... Goldberg was by default as part of his deal... but to a man every other WCW guy and then ECW and TNA guy was pretty much shown "if you didn't start here...it's gonna be nigh on impossible" to get to the top. A few have, but those are the exception and their paths have been ridiculously difficult, often ignoring that the fans have chosen them... Punk, Bryan, even Christian... all have had periods where the fans have demanded their push but Vince has seeming held their past elsewhere against them and fought relentlessly to prevent it... only allowing it when he realises he is damaging the company...

Again, not keeping WCW and "The Power Plant" or the ECW method of training has come home to roost now... the only way is the WWE way, and while the Performance Centre is a dream for many it is dangerous for WWE to assume that their way is right when they are relying on so many "part timers" and ageing talents who were not trained their way in the slightest. While it's good to see an NXT graduate like Rusev on screen in a prominent way it's quite galling too that someone like Jericho and RVD are the last of their breed, that no one else who "makes it in the WWE" once Devitt, Steen and KENTA are on the roster will have learned anywhere else...those 3 are the last of the "outsiders"... the cream of whats left of the business... WWE has just skimmed it off and what replaces all these legendary talents with REAL experience will be guys trained in the WWE way, by WWE...good as a Regal or Billy Gunn are, they can't teach the experience gained in WCW or the territories, they can't ever replace that.

From the Entertainment perspective, WWE is now really "up against it"... while the old stigma of being a wrestling fan is gone, there is now an infinite number of other products for entertainment, all competing for dollars, subscriptions, free time and a chunk of the social landscape. Think UFC is WWE's competition? Wrong... think it's the NFL...wrong again...

WWE is now competing with every other TV show, every other movie, with Xbox Live, Netflix, Spotify... Today's world is so demanding on our limited free time and budget, think about it... a 18 year old WWE fan disillusioned with the product now probably has to pay for their own PS4/Xbox account, their mobile phone bill, gym membership, to take their girlfriend to the movies and has to work as well as study or is thinking more about funding college... "It's only $9.95 a month" is a great mantra...but when budgets and time are limited, with lots of little things at similar prices adding up... suddenly paying to watch WWE has a lot of competition. Likewise a young family with kids who are Cena fans may have got by on the PPV side of things by "clubbing together" with friends... now they have to on paper only sign up for 6 months for the same money... but with other bills to pay it's not going to be a priority...much less when WWE comes to town and each kid wants new Cena merch, tickets and the concessions, parking etc.

WWE isn't handling that side of things very well, it hasn't for a while... In some ways ego is again coming into play...almost that as a business/part of the culture that it feels "entitled" to be a big player regardless of what it produces. Last year and early this year were prime examples, fans WANTED Bryan and WWE almost openly baited them and defied them by doing what IT wanted, until the groundswell and mainstream publicity made it such they couldn't NOT do it. If you went to the Rumble this year, you might not go to another show cos they didn't put Bryan in the Rumble... even if he did win at Mania in the end. If you paid to watch all those non finishes in title matches, you might also balk now... when you read that Vince and Trips are "differing" on the way forward this too rings major alarm bells, that all the good work done might end up being undone because of EGO... when you see they are SEC investigated again, how much if it comes out is going to be just ego of Vince feeling he can "work" Wall Street like any other mark?

Even this week with the ALS challenge, Vince is there front and centre, nominating Kermit the fucking Frog? Really? If that's not a "BUY US DISNEY" plea nothing is. Rather than actually doing something good, it turned into a cheap ploy to score some points with Disney, who are probably pretty pissed over Batista.

Vince is the biggest underlying problem with WWE...his ego isn't underlying so much right now though even if he is not onscreen and that is very dangerous.

Even now the march to Roman's reign seems inevitable cos it's what Vince wants... even if the fans seem to be responding to and preferring Ambrose or Bray Wyatt. He can't NOT give the fans what they want too many times or try to force them to want what he does with no competition. People went to WCW cos they didn't like what WWE was selling... now if they don't like it and tune out... they're gone from the business all together and there aren't any real nostalgia cards left to play to get them back...cos too many guys have been rammed down out throats for too long rather than used sparingly... Cena's never gone away, so any return of value would be so far in the future it's worthless...same for Orton...

 

[mkw1962]

I agree 100% there are not enough heels in the WWE and that will cause a problem in upcoming pay per views. We will see the same old feuds like now for instance Night of Champions is kind of a Summer Slam 2. I heard about Sheamus turning heel, here is a shot in the dark what about Cena turning heel.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

So I just watch Raw at this point because NXT isn't for me(they're gonna ignore what happens there anyway so why does it matter)

They won't ignore it on NXT, which is what matters if you actually watch NXT.

and Smackdown serves no purpose(no title will change hands there and it's basically Raw 0.7). So all my knowledge comes from Raw and the past.

Titles hardly ever change on Raw either. With the exception of the Diva's title of course. But if you prefer Raw to SD because of Diva's title changes, I don't know what to tell you.

So I went to WWE.com and looked up the roster they have(interesting side note they say Rock, Rey Mysterio, Santino Marella and Undertaker are still there). Then I put every superstar on one side for being a face and the other side for being a heel. Granted some guys I didn't know where to put(Hunico, R Truth, Darren Young..those kind of guys)

R-Truth, Hunico and Darren Young are clearly faces. The first two haven't worked as heels in years, while Darren has worked as a heel since turning face back in February.

the Divas I had no idea at all aside from the Bellas and the last 2 divas champions.

Brie, Naomi, Natalya, AJ, Summer and Layla are faces. Nikki, Cameron, Tamina, Eva, Alicia, Rosa, Lana, Stephanie and Paige are heels. This isn't that hard to follow.

Then I eliminated all the divas. The list was still pretty balanced which is how it should be in theory. So then I eliminated anybody who isn't a former world champion...

Um, what was the point of doing that?

So the face side now has 12 guys and the heel side has 5. Of course, of those 5...one is Triple H, one is Brock Lesnar and one is Kane.

I thought you eliminated the world champions? Or did you do the complete opposite of what you said you did and eliminated the non-world champions?

Which got me thinking even more, lets eliminate guys who are part time talent or who aren't ever gonna win it again(Kane, Mark Henry, Great Khali). So now...

Okay, you eliminated the non-world champions. What are you even counting here? The chance a guy has to win the world title again? I think Big Show and Mark Henry have higher chances than The Miz.

Face side has 5 guys and the heel side has...2. The faces are: Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, John Cena and Sheamus. On the heel side, Randy Orton...and the Miz. Think about that for a second. This isn't an attack on part time talent, more an attack on the lack of heels. I know you can turn a face heel pretty quickly so this probably isn't as big an issue as I think it is, but it seems alarming.

What is alarming about this? That they are pairing up these former champions with the young heels that are the future of this company?

With Del Rio leaving, Edge's early retirement and Punk leaving, almost no heel champions are still here. The ones who are, are faces now.

Both Edge and Punk retired as faces. That's because when you're a decorated champion, you are far more over than an upstart rookie. If we had more "heel world champions", Seth Rollins, Cesaro, Rusev, Bo and Bray wouldn't be able to work PPVs due to the sheer amount of top talent.

If the WWE is serious about Reigns/Lesnar at Mania. We have a new face but no new heel. Until Rollins cashes in, but as I mentioned in a previous post, they're trying to increase the length of title runs so dare I say Rollins might lose. They want super Reigns, people are predicting it. So then we're left with Miz and Randy Orton as the only viable opponents for Reigns.

And Bray Wyatt, and Cesaro, and Rusev, and all the other non-world champions that are pushed enough to be top contenders. Plus all the people you arbitrarily removed like Kane, Brock and Triple H.

Plus we don't even know if the Miz is gonna be full time, so we have Orton left.

There is absolutely no indication that Miz is going to become a part-timer. That's some of the silliest speculation I've ever heard.

Granted Bray is being built up as a dominant heel (9-4 at PPV's, 9-3 if you ignore MitB). But people are already flipping out about Bray not being good enough. Rollins doesn't seem likely to be in the main event for that long.

There is absolutely nothing that makes one think that Bray and Seth are going to be de-pushed. This is just more unfounded speculation.

Has WWE shot themselves in the foot on this one?

No. This "problem" is completely made-up.

The lack of serious heels is an epidemic. If we stop looking at the main event and just look at who is a serious heel: Lesnar, Authority, Miz and Rusev. The rest get cheers or nothing at all.

By "Authority" I'm assuming you mean Triple H, Randy Orton, Seth Rollins and Kane. You're grouping them all to make it seem like there's a small amount. That's 7 heels right there. For how many faces? Roman, Cena, Sheamus, Dean, Mark Henry, Big Show and Dolph. That's 7 faces. Sounds good to me.

Ryback gets a feed me more chant, he'd get over as a face in an instant. Wyatts get cheers hence the dropping of "town name, we're here." Cesaro gets cheers as evident by the knocking out of the swing. Fandango is a sympathetic heel now, he might be getting a face turn soon hence the dumb angle with Layla and Summer Rae. Bo gets a cheer from the audience. Sandow and Slater are jokes at this point.

Not everyone can be pushed to the moon. For all the struggling heels, there is an even larger number of struggling faces.

The IWC would flip if Miz wins the title, Rusev is a gimmick that will run dry soon. Lesnar apparently leaves after Mania. All we're left with is The Authority.

If you're talking about post-Mania, by that time, Batista, Christian & Bad News Barrett will be back, along with many call-ups from NXT and all the faces who will turn heel by then. Speculating on how WWE will have a thin roster 8 months from now is absurd.

What can the WWE do to stop this? They need serious heels, no tweeners. It's bad that Cena gets more boos than quite a chunk of the heel wrestlers. How can they fix this? The audience cheers the bad guys nowadays. Concluding questions: How do they fix this? Why is it like this now? And will this hurt them come next WWE year(Wrestlemania-Mania)

There's nothing to fix. They've been doing the same thing every year and they're fine.

They are pushing John Cena, Roman Reigns and Dean Ambrose in the main event. They have Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton and Seth Rollins to complement them.

They have Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, Sheamus, Big Show and Mark Henry as upper mid-carders who can join the main event at any moment. Along with The Miz, Rusev, Cesaro, Bray Wyatt and Kane.

They have The Usos, the Rhodes Bros and Los Matadores in the tag division, along with Rybaxel, Luke&Erick, plus Xavier's new Kofi/Big E stable.

Both Bo Dallas and Adam Rose are new additions who are being pushed on programming too.

RVD and Jericho are coming in and out of the WWE to pump up the faces, while Batista and Triple H are doing the same for the heels.

Daniel Bryan and Rey Mysterio are going to come back at some point, same for Christian and Bad News Barrett.

R-Truth, Zack Ryder, The Great Khali and Sin Cara are all jobbers who are there to do shitty comedy matches with Sandow, Fandango, Slater and Titus.

They even have Justin Gabriel, Darren Young, David Otunga and Tyson Kidd all on standby.

The face/heel divide is dine. It's as equalized as it has ever been.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

There really isn't anything wrong with WWE per se. When people talk about problems they are really talking about their own opinions. Because as a business the WWE is fine. It is going to continue to be fine.

The bigger problem is people comparing stuff to the Attitude Era. That was a VERY brief moment in wrestling history. That was never the norm and never will be.

Now I don't like the product much right now but that is my opinion. Changing their style to make me happy would be a bad business decision because I view the product differently than the average fan.

But IMO the biggest problem is lack of competition. With nothing else to watch you are basically stuck with WWE or watch nothing.

 

[LBGetBack]

I do feel like Rusev could get there. I think it's important that they keep him with Lana for good though, as she obviously gets him a lot of heat through her talking. Also, they need to make sure they keep Lana as a completely unlikable character.

I'm reminded of Umaga with Armandooooo Alejajandrooooo Estraaaaaaadaaaaaaa! The fans grew to LOVE saying that along with him. Not good, for a heel.

Lana needs to keep on this path. Don't give the fans anything to like. Rusev can keep doing what he's doing for now. Eventually he'll have tougher matches and will have to expand his in-ring work(he might have it, we just haven't had the chance to see it yet).

I also think that Stephanie and HHH are so over that their association with a heel wrestler can make them a credible champion. They are doing it with Rollins now, and he will become a heel champ at some point, no question. Anyone new that they bring in to the Authority down the road will have the same great opportunity to really get over.

I like that WWE is finally using heel managers/authority figures with their heel wrestlers once again. Back in the day, you had a lot of heel wrestlers who might not have gotten to top level by themselves, but by association with Mr. Fuji, Bobby Heenan, Jimmy Hart, etc. it made them more over.

 

[Mudlup50]

Okay let me make a wall of text to explain every thing I meant.

They won't ignore it on NXT, which is what matters if you actually watch NXT.

Rusev/Bo/Paige and a host of others were on NXT, since coming to Raw they have never mentioned what happened on NXT on Raw. I have no idea what Rusev did except that he was Bulgarian bc of the IWC. Basically, NXT is the same thing as OVW was, I'm not going to watch it if the WWE is going to discount anything that happened there. They have belts over there? Well I've never heard them say "Such and such is a former NXT world champion," so it's almost like the WWE themselves ignore it most of the time. So I ignored it on this list.

Titles hardly ever change on Raw either. With the exception of the Diva's title of course. But if you prefer Raw to SD because of Diva's title changes, I don't know what to tell you.

Raw is the show that matters. The world title shows up on Raw, as does every other champion. It's 3 hours, and it's the flagship show of the WWE. I'm just saying that I don't watch Smackdown and surprise, Smackdown doesn't really matter since the brand extension went away anyway. Tell me 1 important piece of storyline that happened on Smackdown since the world titles got unified in December. If anything did happen, they reviewed it on Raw. The whole point of the early disclaimer was that I don't watch all 5 of the shows WWE has now, only the one they consider important themselves. So no Smackdown, NXT, Total Divas, Legends House any of their secondary shows.

Brie, Naomi, Natalya, AJ, Summer and Layla are faces. Nikki, Cameron, Tamina, Eva, Alicia, Rosa, Lana, Stephanie and Paige are heels. This isn't that hard to follow.

If you continue reading the post it has nothing to do with Divas anyway. If the biggest problem in WWE was the divas division I'd be happy but we all know that's not the case. Then you asked the point of eliminating the Divas, because no diva is gonna hold the world title. Also most of us agree that the divas division is actually improving right now. So I eliminate the Divas because they don't matter to the point of the experiment anyway.

Now why did I get rid of the guys who aren't former world champs, because the list is including former world champions. And your confusion for it kinda bewildered me to be honest. I mean I said "So then I eliminated anybody who isn't a former world champion... " which says clearly isn't. Also eliminated means, not counting...maybe that was the problem there?

What are you even counting here? The chance a guy has to win the world title again? I think Big Show and Mark Henry have higher chances than The Miz.

I'm counting former world champions...Mark Henry better not be world champion again. He's past his prime and to be frank he's out for like 2/3s of the year.(to explain what I mean, I hadn't seen him since I started watching again in February...so) Big Show very well could win it again I guess, I mean if you wanna argue for these 2 to stay on the list it's more faces on the list.

Also, Miz has a decent as chance as Mark Henry, he actually gets a heel reaction from the crowd without injuring people or being the boss.

What is alarming about this? That they are pairing up these former champions with the young heels that are the future of this company?

I don't see why you'd say that? I never mentioned anything about pairing people up, there's no talk about feuds there or anything the alarming thing is that they have no credible heels now. Unless they push somebody new up which they can't do because of Lesnar.

Both Edge and Punk retired as faces. That's because when you're a decorated champion, you are far more over than an upstart rookie. If we had more "heel world champions", Seth Rollins, Cesaro, Rusev, Bo and Bray wouldn't be able to work PPVs due to the sheer amount of top talent.

I'm pretty sure there was a Punk face turn...I mean he feuded with Heyman? I do agree with your second point, and even the first point sort of makes sense. In the modern WWE infrastructure the fans will cheer you if you deserve any noise at all, unless you're a great heel (authority, Rusev, Miz) But you had previously mentioned they were pairing people up, which I assume you mean in feuds. So they still could, you could have former heel world champions feuding with young face guys.

And Bray Wyatt, and Cesaro, and Rusev, and all the other non-world champions that are pushed enough to be top contenders. Plus all the people you arbitrarily removed like Kane, Brock and Triple H.

It's not about being pushed enough to be contenders, it's about the fact that they had 2 world titles and only a few of the dozens of champs are heels. I removed Kane because he shouldn't get another run. Brock's contract expires after Wrestlemania and if he resigns then he'd deserve to stay but we don't know yet. And Triple H, you're telling me you seriously could see Triple H winning the world title again? That wouldn't irk you or anything? I mean right now if Bryan was champ he could feud with the authority or Miz...and then his options are part timers or new guys who aren't credible yet.

There is absolutely no indication that Miz is going to become a part-timer. That's some of the silliest speculation I've ever heard.

I had heard that Miz wasn't staying with the company for long, I don't know if it's true hence the statement you're quoting in that response when I said "Plus we don't even know if the Miz is gonna be full time." If he does leave, that this bares true and if not...then it's just one more on my list of former heel world champs. Let me be wrong he's one of my favorite wrestlers right now, just what I had heard.

There is absolutely nothing that makes one think that Bray and Seth are going to be de-pushed. This is just more unfounded speculation.

I agree, hence why I put Bray's PPV record up in the post. I'm just saying the IWC is so worried about this guy. And yea it's speculation for Seth but let's face it what is gonna make him stay a top level heel when you have a few heel guys coming up. I'm just not sure he's staying main event level forever, which to be fair is speculation. And for the Bray argument, look around here and see all the posts about Bray not looking strong enough or not making enough sense or botching a few spots. We don't know if he's gonna stay over.

No. This "problem" is completely made-up.

You're speculating this based on your confusion and half baked points? Funny you're so quick to bash this post as being made up and silly, yet you're doing the same thing you're claiming I did.

By "Authority" I'm assuming you mean Triple H, Randy Orton, Seth Rollins and Kane. You're grouping them all to make it seem like there's a small amount. That's 7 heels right there. For how many faces? Roman, Cena, Sheamus, Dean, Mark Henry, Big Show and Dolph. That's 7 faces. Sounds good to me.

Yes that is the authority. And right now Triple H is pretty much Vince(so I guess he might be world champ again but I doubt it) Kane is the muscle who makes sure the Authority gets what they want(so I guess he might be world champ again over Randy Orton and Rollins), Orton is the only member of the faction who is an active wrestler, who has won the world title and still might again.

As far as the split, you're telling me you'd watch Mark Henry versus Rusev for the world title? That's exactly why I excluded guys like Big Show, Henry and Kane because they most likely won't win it again. Please, when they do feel free to throw this post back up in my face and I'll gladly say I was wrong.

Not everyone can be pushed to the moon. For all the struggling heels, there is an even larger number of struggling faces.

Where did I say they aren't getting pushes? Or that they're struggling. I was pointing out that the WWE is trying to keep them heels and it just isn't working. The new superstars who are supposed to be heels are getting cheered. And as you said yourself, the old guys become faces after being a decorated champion...so what happens if the next 3-4 next big heels become faces? This isn't about them struggling, this is about them getting the opposite chant that they're supposed to get. Ryback is a bad guy, why is he getting cheers? If he got pushed into the main event, he wouldn't be a great heel, he'd probably be a face. Which I guess is speculation.

If you're talking about post-Mania, by that time, Batista, Christian & Bad News Barrett will be back, along with many call-ups from NXT and all the faces who will turn heel by then. Speculating on how WWE will have a thin roster 8 months from now is absurd.

Batista might be cheered on return as a few have speculated. Christian isn't he a face? I haven't seen him since I started watching again so I really don't know, but I assumed he was still a face. And Barrett which could be pushed into the main event. But as the point of the post, he isn't a former world champion. The NXT guys aren't either. That was the whole point of the post. And how is it absurd? People on here are debating who will take the title at Wrestlemania, if Rollins will cash in at Mania...this is literally 70% of this site.

Daniel Bryan and Rey Mysterio are going to come back at some point, same for Christian and Bad News Barrett.

Now I thought Rey left? Like he went to AAA or whatever and Vince would be mad...and again, he's a face. And, speculation here I don't think Rey would make a good heel at this point in his career. So if anything he would support my case in this post.

And

It's hard to pinpoint one problem that is the root of all the problems but it really does come down to this...

I appreciate your input but this wasn't a question of what is the biggest problem. I guess my original post was too large and the fact it wasn't stated in the title made it confusing.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

Okay let me make a wall of text to explain every thing I meant.

Yeah, and you completely ignored the final part of my post that counted the whole roster 1-by-1 and showed there is exactly the same amount of faces as there are heels. For every top face, there's a top heel, and for every jobber face there's a jobber heel, etc.

Rusev/Bo/Paige and a host of others were on NXT, since coming to Raw they have never mentioned what happened on NXT on Raw. I have no idea what Rusev did except that he was Bulgarian bc of the IWC. Basically, NXT is the same thing as OVW was, I'm not going to watch it if the WWE is going to discount anything that happened there. They have belts over there? Well I've never heard them say "Such and such is a former NXT world champion," so it's almost like the WWE themselves ignore it most of the time. So I ignored it on this list.

At the beginning of your post, you talked about a bunch of different things. You said NXT did nothing for you because of lack of continuity. I'm telling you that they won't ever ignore the things that happened on NXT on NXT. If you want continuity, keep watching NXT. No one will ever forget it. If anything, stop watching Raw, as it's the only show that ignores things that happens on other shows.

Raw is the show that matters.

That's a matter of opinion. I along with many others prefer NXT to Raw.

The world title shows up on Raw, as does every other champion. It's 3 hours, and it's the flagship show of the WWE. I'm just saying that I don't watch Smackdown and surprise, Smackdown doesn't really matter since the brand extension went away anyway. Tell me 1 important piece of storyline that happened on Smackdown since the world titles got unified in December. If anything did happen, they reviewed it on Raw. The whole point of the early disclaimer was that I don't watch all 5 of the shows WWE has now, only the one they consider important themselves. So no Smackdown, NXT, Total Divas, Legends House any of their secondary shows.

If you decide to ignore 90% of WWE's product and only examine a piece of it, your judgment of that product has no credibility.

If you continue reading the post it has nothing to do with Divas anyway. If the biggest problem in WWE was the divas division I'd be happy but we all know that's not the case. Then you asked the point of eliminating the Divas, because no diva is gonna hold the world title.

So is this whole post about "who is gonna hold the world title?" That's easy to answer. John Cena. He has at least 6-8 years left in the company. Get used to it. Everyone else is transitional.

I'm counting former world champions...Mark Henry better not be world champion again. He's past his prime and to be frank he's out for like 2/3s of the year.(to explain what I mean, I hadn't seen him since I started watching again in February...so) Big Show very well could win it again I guess, I mean if you wanna argue for these 2 to stay on the list it's more faces on the list.

You seem to be having two different arguments with yourself. The main one seems to be about a lack of strong heels, while another is about who is going to get to hold a world title. Hulk Hogan held the title for 4 years. He had plenty of strong heels against him. Being able to hold a world title is not what makes a great heel. We will see plenty of great heels rise in the next few years and none of them will hold a world title.

Also, Miz has a decent as chance as Mark Henry, he actually gets a heel reaction from the crowd without injuring people or being the boss.

Triple H doesn't like him. That's enough to seal his fate.

I don't see why you'd say that? I never mentioned anything about pairing people up, there's no talk about feuds there or anything the alarming thing is that they have no credible heels now. Unless they push somebody new up which they can't do because of Lesnar.

You make a list of top guys and then you marveled at the lack of heels. I'm telling you that there are top heels that aren't on that list, because they haven't held a world title. WWE will put Bray Wyatt over RVD, Jericho, Big Show, Henry, Sheamus, Dolph, Khali, Rey and Swagger without a second thought. He's higher on the tier than any of those guys, but you don't count him because he "hasn't won a world title". That's just silly.

I'm pretty sure there was a Punk face turn...I mean he feuded with Heyman? I do agree with your second point, and even the first point sort of makes sense. In the modern WWE infrastructure the fans will cheer you if you deserve any noise at all, unless you're a great heel (authority, Rusev, Miz) But you had previously mentioned they were pairing people up, which I assume you mean in feuds. So they still could, you could have former heel world champions feuding with young face guys.

They could, but it's just much easier to have young heels take on the top guys. Like that you don't risk your heel having more credibility and connection with the audience than the guy your audience is supposed to be rooting for. Putting an established veteran against a young rookie is a sure-fire way to turn that veteran face.

It's not about being pushed enough to be contenders, it's about the fact that they had 2 world titles and only a few of the dozens of champs are heels.

But if this isn't about being contenders, who cares about the title history??? The Miz held the WWE title 4 years ago and has never been pushed again. He's been a jobber ever since. But somehow you think that gives him more credibility today than Bray Wyatt or Cesaro who have an infinite amount of upside compared to The Miz.

I removed Kane because he shouldn't get another run.

That's your opinion, but I heard a lot of people say they wanted Kane to win at MitB.

Brock's contract expires after Wrestlemania and if he resigns then he'd deserve to stay but we don't know yet.

What's with all this speculation?? How about you add that disclaimer to every single other guy on the roster?? Because we definitely don't know for a certain if Cena, Randy, Dolph, etc. are going to sign again.

And Triple H, you're telling me you seriously could see Triple H winning the world title again? That wouldn't irk you or anything?

I would love it. Heel CEO hogging up the spotlight until a renegade like Ambrose rises up to stop him?? That would be phenomenal.

I mean right now if Bryan was champ he could feud with the authority or Miz...and then his options are part timers or new guys who aren't credible yet.

You mocked Mark Henry vs. Rusev as a main event, and yet you're calling for Bryan vs. Miz. *smh*

I had heard that Miz wasn't staying with the company for long, I don't know if it's true hence the statement you're quoting in that response when I said "Plus we don't even know if the Miz is gonna be full time." If he does leave, that this bares true and if not...then it's just one more on my list of former heel world champs. Let me be wrong he's one of my favorite wrestlers right now, just what I had heard.

And where did you "hear this"?? Because that's not even a popular rumor, that's just you making stuff up.

I agree, hence why I put Bray's PPV record up in the post. I'm just saying the IWC is so worried about this guy. And yea it's speculation for Seth but let's face it what is gonna make him stay a top level heel when you have a few heel guys coming up.

Seth Rollins is holding the Money in the Bank briefcase. He's pretty much guaranteed a WWE Championship. They're grooming him to cash in on Roman next year.

You're speculating this based on your confusion and half baked points? Funny you're so quick to bash this post as being made up and silly, yet you're doing the same thing you're claiming I did.

Your post doesn't make any sense because you don't even know what argument are you having. You count the world champions, saw a discrepancy between faces and heels, and said it was causing a problem, without saying what the problem was. What exactly is this problem?? It's not a lack of credible heels. The reason all these former world champs turned face in the first place is BECAUSE the heel side is stacked full of up-and-coming talents.

Yes that is the authority. And right now Triple H is pretty much Vince(so I guess he might be world champ again but I doubt it) Kane is the muscle who makes sure the Authority gets what they want(so I guess he might be world champ again over Randy Orton and Rollins), Orton is the only member of the faction who is an active wrestler, who has won the world title and still might again. As far as the split, you're telling me you'd watch Mark Henry versus Rusev for the world title? That's exactly why I excluded guys like Big Show, Henry and Kane because they most likely won't win it again. Please, when they do feel free to throw this post back up in my face and I'll gladly say I was wrong.

Kane, Mark Henry and Big Show don't have to win the World title. They just have to have World title matches to fulfill the same purpose, which they undoubtedly will. Apparently, you think it would be great if WWE just shuffled the world title like a hot potato among all the top guys, instead of just serving up strong contenders.

Where did I say they aren't getting pushes? Or that they're struggling. I was pointing out that the WWE is trying to keep them heels and it just isn't working.

Struggling = Not working

The new superstars who are supposed to be heels are getting cheered. And as you said yourself, the old guys become faces after being a decorated champion...so what happens if the next 3-4 next big heels become faces?

They won't, because not all of them will become decorated champions. You'll consider that a huge failure apparently, but tell that to Roddy Piper and Ted DiBiase.

Batista might be cheered on return as a few have speculated.

I don't think so. There's nothing to make you think that. They tried pushing him hard as a face and it failed. The crowd doesn't like him. He's probably going to get booed.

Christian isn't he a face? I haven't seen him since I started watching again so I really don't know, but I assumed he was still a face.

He turned heel against Daniel Bryan in February, the time you supposed started watching again.

And Barrett which could be pushed into the main event. But as the point of the post, he isn't a former world champion. The NXT guys aren't either. That was the whole point of the post.

That's terrible, right??? WWE is going to feature main events with hungry guys who want a title they've never hard. The horror! If only Barrett was a 10-time World Champion, we would all be able to enjoy the main events more.

And how is it absurd? People on here are debating who will take the title at Wrestlemania, if Rollins will cash in at Mania...this is literally 70% of this site.

The guy who will take the title at WrestleMania is going to be a FACE, making this whole post irrelevant. The guy who will take the title off of him is Seth Rollins. And the guy who will take the title off of him is another face, probably the same guy Rollins cashed in on (Roman Reigns). Then, you're wondering who is going to face Roman?? Well, it's going to be all those guys you dismissed earlier. Bray Wyatt, Kane, Batista, Henry... etc.

I appreciate your input but this wasn't a question of what is the biggest problem. I guess my original post was too large and the fact it wasn't stated in the title made it confusing.

That what wasn't stated??? You still have said absolutely nothing. Sure, you've brought up some data and pointed out that there are more former champions that are faces than heels. But you haven't said how that is a problem, other than saying "this is a problem".

 

[Kidpolean]

THE FANS ARE THE PROBLEM...ive fully explained why the fans a re the problem several times on so I wont go into full detail right now. Lets just say that the fans are trying to turn wwe into a sporting event while wwe is trying to run a entertaining television show.

 

[Navi]

THE FANS ARE THE PROBLEM...ive fully explained why the fans a re the problem several times on so I wont go into full detail right now. Lets just say that the fans are trying to turn wwe into a sporting event while wwe is trying to run a entertaining television show.

The fans aren't the only problem, don't be ridiculous the whole industry is the problem. Instead of being just a sport or entertainment business, where sweaty guys in Speedo's thump the crap out of each other, the WWE has turned the whole thing into a friggin soap opera.

I remember wrestling back in the late 80's. They used to roll into Maple Leaf Gardens here in Toronto once a month. You had guys like Sweet Daddy Siki, Tiger Jeet Singh, Ric Flair (when he had long curly hair) and the baddest guy of them all was the Shiek with his manager Abdullah Farouk.

You knew who the bad guys were, they always wore black trunks, and the good guys always wore white. We spent a good few hours just watching them wrassling around. There was none of this "Oh let me get a chair and beat the other guy senseless", the only foreign object was a doorknob handed to the Shiek by Farouk.

We didn't need all this build to PPV's because there was none. The only wrestling on TV was on Saturday afternoon's. And there was none of this 20 minute promo's every 10 minutes. It was match after match and they were good. I hate the wrestling of today, it's so different from I grew up watching. I stopped watching for a long time until my son got me back into it.

When you have a soap opera happening every week, then shit happens. Look at the Daniel Bryan story. The guy spends the better part of a year, getting the snot beat out of him, weekly put downs, every obstacle thrown in his path and he finally succeeds. Only to have an injury that they now find out may stop his career.

Now because of the internet and social media, the fans over analyze, inspect and rate everything that happens, to the point where you just want to scream "Who the fuck cares, sit down and enjoy yourselves for Christ sake". And they delude themselves into thinking that the WWE will actually listen to them. The only thing that Vince McMahon cares about is the almighty dollar, and that's all he will ever care about.

 

[Kidpolean]

The fans aren't the only problem, don't be ridiculous the whole industry is the problem. Instead of being just a sport or entertainment business, where sweaty guys in Speedo's thump the crap out of each other, the WWE has turned the whole thing into a friggin soap opera.

I remember wrestling back in the late 80's. They used to roll into Maple Leaf Gardens here in Toronto once a month. You had guys like Sweet Daddy Siki, Tiger Jeet Singh, Ric Flair (when he had long curly hair) and the baddest guy of them all was the Shiek with his manager Abdullah Farouk.

You knew who the bad guys were, they always wore black trunks, and the good guys always wore white. We spent a good few hours just watching them wrassling around. There was none of this "Oh let me get a chair and beat the other guy senseless", the only foreign object was a doorknob handed to the Shiek by Farouk.

We didn't need all this build to PPV's because there was none. The only wrestling on TV was on Saturday afternoon's. And there was none of this 20 minute promo's every 10 minutes. It was match after match and they were good. I hate the wrestling of today, it's so different from I grew up watching. I stopped watching for a long time until my son got me back into it.

When you have a soap opera happening every week, then shit happens. Look at the Daniel Bryan story. The guy spends the better part of a year, getting the snot beat out of him, weekly put downs, every obstacle thrown in his path and he finally succeeds. Only to have an injury that they now find out may stop his career.

Now because of the internet and social media, the fans over analyze, inspect and rate everything that happens, to the point where you just want to scream "Who the fuck cares, sit down and enjoy yourselves for Christ sake". And they delude themselves into thinking that the WWE will actually listen to them. The only thing that Vince McMahon cares about is the almighty dollar, and that's all he will ever care about.

I never said they were the only problem...i said the fans are the biggest problem which is the question that was asked. All business owners care about money, that is the point of a business...to make money!

 

[Savior of Silence]

It's hard to pinpoint one problem that is the root of all the problems but it really does come down to this... the moment WWE BECAME the wrestling business... by purchasing WCW, then they were always on a downward trajectory. Decisions made 13 years ago are now coming home to roost in the talent, corporate and entertainment landscape areas of the company.

From a corporate perspective "killing WCW" was a good outcome, not the right one though. Imagine tomorrow if Pepsi went bust forcing lovers of it to drink Coca Cola or their "version" of the brand going forward. You'd soon switch to a different type of drink altogether. Thats what happened with a large number of WCW fans (and then ECW fans) their favourite was killed, the roster amalgamated and killed in the "Invasion" leaving no choice other than weaker alternatives, certainly not a choice "worthy of a new generation".

Ego played the biggest part in this and it's arguably still the biggest negative factor that affects WWE as a company. That Vince McMahon is "always" right, and if he's not "he's the audience of one". Killing WCW was a win for Vince, but a big loss for the business... the correct outcome would have been letting Shane or someone else take the company on as a seperate entity, acknowledging the "win" but being "merciful" rather than delivering the coup de grace.

This affected talent generation in a negative way, most of the guys who "made it big" to the "Mania Headliner" level were already under contract when WCW was bought and in the fabled "Class of 02" down in OVW. The only real headliner that came from that buyout was Booker T and even then he was a tier down from WWE generated guys or those who made the jump before the buyout. I struggle to think of any other WCW talent who actually "got there"... Goldberg was by default as part of his deal... but to a man every other WCW guy and then ECW and TNA guy was pretty much shown "if you didn't start here...it's gonna be nigh on impossible" to get to the top. A few have, but those are the exception and their paths have been ridiculously difficult, often ignoring that the fans have chosen them... Punk, Bryan, even Christian... all have had periods where the fans have demanded their push but Vince has seeming held their past elsewhere against them and fought relentlessly to prevent it... only allowing it when he realises he is damaging the company...

Again, not keeping WCW and "The Power Plant" or the ECW method of training has come home to roost now... the only way is the WWE way, and while the Performance Centre is a dream for many it is dangerous for WWE to assume that their way is right when they are relying on so many "part timers" and ageing talents who were not trained their way in the slightest. While it's good to see an NXT graduate like Rusev on screen in a prominent way it's quite galling too that someone like Jericho and RVD are the last of their breed, that no one else who "makes it in the WWE" once Devitt, Steen and KENTA are on the roster will have learned anywhere else...those 3 are the last of the "outsiders"... the cream of whats left of the business... WWE has just skimmed it off and what replaces all these legendary talents with REAL experience will be guys trained in the WWE way, by WWE...good as a Regal or Billy Gunn are, they can't teach the experience gained in WCW or the territories, they can't ever replace that.

From the Entertainment perspective, WWE is now really "up against it"... while the old stigma of being a wrestling fan is gone, there is now an infinite number of other products for entertainment, all competing for dollars, subscriptions, free time and a chunk of the social landscape. Think UFC is WWE's competition? Wrong... think it's the NFL...wrong again...

WWE is now competing with every other TV show, every other movie, with Xbox Live, Netflix, Spotify... Today's world is so demanding on our limited free time and budget, think about it... a 18 year old WWE fan disillusioned with the product now probably has to pay for their own PS4/Xbox account, their mobile phone bill, gym membership, to take their girlfriend to the movies and has to work as well as study or is thinking more about funding college... "It's only $9.95 a month" is a great mantra...but when budgets and time are limited, with lots of little things at similar prices adding up... suddenly paying to watch WWE has a lot of competition. Likewise a young family with kids who are Cena fans may have got by on the PPV side of things by "clubbing together" with friends... now they have to on paper only sign up for 6 months for the same money... but with other bills to pay it's not going to be a priority...much less when WWE comes to town and each kid wants new Cena merch, tickets and the concessions, parking etc.

WWE isn't handling that side of things very well, it hasn't for a while... In some ways ego is again coming into play...almost that as a business/part of the culture that it feels "entitled" to be a big player regardless of what it produces. Last year and early this year were prime examples, fans WANTED Bryan and WWE almost openly baited them and defied them by doing what IT wanted, until the groundswell and mainstream publicity made it such they couldn't NOT do it. If you went to the Rumble this year, you might not go to another show cos they didn't put Bryan in the Rumble... even if he did win at Mania in the end. If you paid to watch all those non finishes in title matches, you might also balk now... when you read that Vince and Trips are "differing" on the way forward this too rings major alarm bells, that all the good work done might end up being undone because of EGO... when you see they are SEC investigated again, how much if it comes out is going to be just ego of Vince feeling he can "work" Wall Street like any other mark?

Even this week with the ALS challenge, Vince is there front and centre, nominating Kermit the fucking Frog? Really? If that's not a "BUY US DISNEY" plea nothing is. Rather than actually doing something good, it turned into a cheap ploy to score some points with Disney, who are probably pretty pissed over Batista.

Vince is the biggest underlying problem with WWE...his ego isn't underlying so much right now though even if he is not onscreen and that is very dangerous.

Even now the march to Roman's reign seems inevitable cos it's what Vince wants... even if the fans seem to be responding to and preferring Ambrose or Bray Wyatt. He can't NOT give the fans what they want too many times or try to force them to want what he does with no competition. People went to WCW cos they didn't like what WWE was selling... now if they don't like it and tune out... they're gone from the business all together and there aren't any real nostalgia cards left to play to get them back...cos too many guys have been rammed down out throats for too long rather than used sparingly... Cena's never gone away, so any return of value would be so far in the future it's worthless...same for Orton...

Is nobody is paying this post any attention? Is it too long for you guys or what? These 2 jabrones are arguing about stuff that absolutely doesn't matter when the correct answer is staring them right in the face.

If there's one thing I could add to it it's the fact that there is so much weekly programming that the WWE puts out that we inevitably see the same matches over and over to the point of not giving a fuck. I know I'm not the only one that's tired of The Wyatt Family vs The Usos.

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

I never said they were the only problem...i said the fans are the biggest problem which is the question that was asked. All business owners care about money, that is the point of a business...to make money!

Business 101: The paying customers are NEVER the problem. Businesses exists to serve their paying customers and cater to their wants in exchange for money. When businesses stop doing that they no longer have any reason to exist and will, in fact, stop existing as those paying customers start taking their money elsewhere.

Those fans you're so contemptuous of are the WWE's paying customers.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Is nobody is paying this post any attention? Is it too long for you guys or what? These 2 jabrones are arguing about stuff that absolutely doesn't matter when the correct answer is staring them right in the face.

If there's one thing I could add to it it's the fact that there is so much weekly programming that the WWE puts out that we inevitably see the same matches over and over to the point of not giving a fuck. I know I'm not the only one that's tired of The Wyatt Family vs The Usos.

First off, when you have more than 14 posts and have written a featured column on the main page... call me a jabroni (correct spelling) all you like... until then accept that not EVERYONE is going to either agree with the points made by the OP, or will have views of their own that will shed light onto the topic from other angles. As a great man one said "Like it, don't like it, but learn to live with it." If you can't, see my name on a post...skip past it rather than use pathetic insults.

I read the OP thread, but I didn't agree with the OP's assessment based on the title so made my own based on said title, that's what forums are for. I didn't however call him a Jabroni or any other disrespectful term for thinking it or making the thread. Face/Heel is the least of WWE's problems right now, they go far deeper to the fundamentals of their business, how they do it, who does it and whether people will continue to pay for it rather than "who to cheer for or boo", that part is easy.

So welcome to our forums although something tells me you're not new, merely rejoined, enjoy being a troll and the small amount of "feeding" you've just been given my friend. We're a happy welcoming bunch, but more posts like this and we will be very happy if you live up to your name and save silence for us...

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Business 101: The paying customers are NEVER the problem. Businesses exists to serve their paying customers and cater to their wants in exchange for money. When businesses stop doing that they no longer have any reason to exist and will, in fact, stop existing as those paying customers start taking their money elsewhere.

Those fans you're so contemptuous of are the WWE's paying customers.

Someone else who gets it... thank you.

WWE spent more time annoying the fans in the last year than it did giving them what they want. The audience of one concept is unique in entertainment and corporations in general and has more than overstayed its welcome. Kevin Feige over at Marvel has almost the same thankless job Vince does, having to take something millions love and present it in such a way to maximise the business without trashing it, somehow he manages to make calls that engage the fans when it comes to movies, yet seems now to be alienating his core fans in comic land with needless reboots. It's a tough job, but Feige at least accepts it's not all about him... Vince sadly does not get this, he wants WWE to be HIS vision all the time rather than it's own organic thing, this is why they are not as "big" as they could be, why he isn't a true billionaire and why the company is in danger.

Who the company wants you to cheer for should never be an issue. If they're doing it right, naturally the right talents to drive the business will rise to the top. It happened in EVERY other era bar this one. Hogan, to Savage, to Bret to Austin to Foley, Cena even as recently as Bryan... when Vince tries to force whoever it is HE wants, like Warrior, Lex, Diesel, Shawn, Triple H, Ryback and now Reigns their success is either limited, resented or monsters are created that cause more problems to the company than success. None of those guys ACTUALLY drew as champ as intended or were fan choices... they were Vince's choice and more often than not to a man they fail in the scheme of it. Face or heel is immaterial in that situation...