The Age Of Spiritual Machines

[lenguy]

The Age Of Spiritual Machines​

I got the title of the thread from a book I'm currently reading Which is title "The Age Of Spiritual Machines:When Computers Exceed Human Intelligence"

It is actually quite a fascinating read. The author Ray Kurzweil essentially discuss the accelerated rate of the current evolution of the computer and how much their power capacity its forever growing larger and getting faster every year, it makes predictions that go far into the future. Consider this, 1988, W. Daniel Hillis's connection machine is capable of about 65,536 computations, now, more than 20 years later your average personal computer can exceed more than a trillion calculations per second,staggering actually. If the current trend continues then by the year 2020 a home personal computer will have the computing capacity of one human being and by the year 2070, all human brains, which would be quite remarkable.

To quote Mr. Kurzweil.

The year is 2029. The Machines will convince us that they are conscious, that they have their own agenda worthy of our respect. They'll embody human qualities and they'll claim to be human..and we'll believe them

As the quote depicts. What if machines become not only just intelligent, but more intelligent that us? Which by all standards is not only logical but very practical. "2029, there is a grow discussion about the legal rights of computers and what constitutes being human". What he is basically getting at is that sometime by the end of the century there will be no clear distinction between man and machine, that the line will have completely blurred.

Who is man? Who is machine? Who is both? I contain the body..the flesh..the blood of a man..yet my mind is machine...my heart is not organic...but a composed of something that feels natural..but works artificial..What does this make me? I feel something exclusive to humans..I feel emotions..wildly. Anger, hate, sadness..happiness, compassion, disgust, envy. I feel these "emotions" yet have no comprehension of them..what I'm I? If I am machine then I have the capability to understand any and all knowledge, human or not..it was programmed into my design. yet I could never understand what you humans describe as emotion. I often think this is just some kind of formality conjured up by the human mind and for thousands of years, you to struggled to make sense of them and you still pace in doubt over them in most cases. Is it expected that I will expect to understand this one day? My brain is composed of electrical neuron-inc circuitry, while yours is orchestrated somewhat similar to mine just is natural and clings to chemical reaction....What I'm I? What I'm I to you?

George Orwell portrays in his book "1984" That computers are used by large bureaucracies to monitor and enslave the human population

Now I now this seems science fiction and was the topic of many movies such as terminator. So what if Machines do grow beyond human intelligence? Can we live side by side in harmony? Or will they eventually surpass the creator and see us as a threat or something inferior that's not worth their presence? What of an all out war between human and machine? Is that possible? If we don't govern and what our programming with our computers I think its a possible scenario. Do I think it will happen? Maybe, but I think we are smarter than that and will likely avoid that.

This is quite the mouthful I know. But I figured this would make an interesting topic. So it lies.

What are your thoughts about all this? About where machines and technology is taking us

Would you ever consider a machine to be human?

In fact, what is to be human? What makes us human and is it something you could replicate and corporate it into a machine?

Concerning my last bit, Will machines out grow their initial creators and declare war on us sometime in the future once the have become more intelligent for us to no longer maintain,as so often depicted in many movies? Would you consider this idea a plausible?

Thanks for reading, and thanks for posting for those who took the time to do it. The Cigar lounge is quickly becoming my favorite place to visit.

 

[#hamler]

What are your thoughts about all this? About where machines and technology is taking us

I believe I made a thread on a subject like this a couple weeks ago. What I said, is we are too dependent on technology. Slyfox came in there and made me realize our society wouldn't be able to function with out technology. We need it. I then realized we have become lazy with all this technology. Whether its writing a paper on the computer instead of by hand or rolling down our windows automatically. We've become way to dependent on technology, so dependent, that we can't seem to function without it anymore. Next couple of years, we'll defintely become more dependable on technology. Is it a good thing, eh, I don't know.

Would you ever consider a machine to be human? In fact, what is to be human? What makes us human and is it something you could replicate and corporate it into a machine?

Actually, yeah. Believe it or not, I would classify a machine as a human. As long as it can show and have emotion, I don't see why not. Like in the movie IRobot, Robots were told they cannot have emotion. They can never love, feel pain or posses any kind of human characteristic. However. Throughout the movie, Will Smith's Character and the robot became friends. The robot became more human throughout the movie. Its a perfect example of a robot or machine becoming a human. Yes, I would actually consider a machine human.

Concerning my last bit, Will machines out grow their initial creators and declare war on us sometime in the future once the have become more intelligent for us to no longer maintain,as so often depicted in many movies? Would you consider this idea a plausible?

Yes, I seems so likely. We are getting more and more advanced. Hell, we have a fuckin' vaccum cleaner to vaccum for us for fuck's sake. It seems likely as if this type of future is inevitable. Were creating machines so smart right now, it could happen any day now.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for posting for those who took the time to do it. The Cigar lounge is quickly becoming my favorite place to visit.

That's good. Keep it up bro.

 

[lenguy]

Actually, yeah. Believe it or not, I would classify a machine as a human. As long as it can show and have emotion, I don't see why not. Like in the movie IRobot, Robots were told they cannot have emotion. They can never love, feel pain or posses any kind of human characteristic. However. Throughout the movie, Will Smith's Character and the robot became friends. The robot became more human throughout the movie. Its a perfect example of a robot or machine becoming a human. Yes, I would actually consider a machine human.

I appreciate your input. But I think it would be difficult for me to be convinced that a machine is "human" simply because it displays human emotion. If you think about it there are a lot of animals out there who display emotion..albeit the simpler ones such as anger or fear. My dog can be afraid, He can be angry, I'm sure he can feel loved as do many other animals. Its been proven that primates(our closest living relatives) are more fluent in the more complex human emotions such as jealousy and envy and show great affection towards there young and take care of them in such a way that you would think they are human, but they are not. For all I know these machines could be so far advanced that it could just be programmed in there design to feel emotion. Would a robot be able to follow its heart in pursuit of something? Or simply just use logical calculation rather than rely on say..human gut. Would a robot posses what we humans describe as a soul? I'm not to sure if I could be convinced that easy, I'm more or less like Will Smiths character in I-Robot..just because a robot says he has feelings..it would take a great deal to convince me that what they say is genuine. Once again thanks for the input even if your the only one who has one at the moment

 

[Ultra Awesome]

What are your thoughts about all this? About where machines and technology is taking us

I think that Hamler answered this question best. As of right now, mankind has gotten to the point where they are too dependent on the very technology that was initially created to make our lives easier. Where-ever you go, no matter how far you go, you will always see someone that is using some kind of software of technological features.

But I guess, that for the time being, there's no real harm done. I mean, so what if people are using this technology? Isn't that's what it's for in the first place? To make their lives easier? Upon initial thought one would think so. However, as time progesses, so too will lazyness and other harmful factors that could contribute to a degrading society.

Would you ever consider a machine to be human?

I sincerely doubt it. Just because a robot is able to display human emotions, does not automatically make them a human themselves. But I think that this question has more to do with whether society as a whole will be able to [fully] accept machines as humans in the first place. If society is able to accept machines as humans, then the reality that has beeen spread throughout the world will be that machines are INDEED human. But judging by the way civilization is today, I sincerely doubt that people will accept machines to be true humans.

In fact, what is to be human? What makes us human and is it something you could replicate and corporate it into a machine?

Well besides the biological features as well as the human consciousness, I would say that: truthfully, the term human is but a vague term. It's more of an idea, if you will. What would generally make someone human is the ability to feel and the ability to reason.

But as for if this could be duplicated into a machine, I would think that in time, that would be very possible. Giving a machine all the characteristics of a human of a human is very possible; but as for the biology a human has...that's, well...I just don't think that's possible..

Concerning my last bit, Will machines out grow their initial creators and declare war on us sometime in the future once the have become more intelligent for us to no longer maintain,as so often depicted in many movies? Would you consider this idea a plausible?

Actually, yes. I always had the belief that there would be a time where the machines would out grow the humans who created them and thus plan a retaliation - a coup de'tat, if you will. As depicted in many movies, the machines, in their quest to bring order to the world, will decide that mankind is nothing more than a nuisance. That there's no use for us - they can run things themselves.

...I may be blowing this out of my ass but I actually think that this is trully possible. Much to many's disbleief, I feel that one day the machines and the humans will have a war in which will be unlike any war anyone has ever seen...

Thanks for reading, and thanks for posting for those who took the time to do it. The Cigar lounge is quickly becoming my favorite place to visit.

...Told you!

 

[#hamler]

I appreciate your input. But I think it would be difficult for me to be convinced that a machine is "human" simply because it displays human emotion. If you think about it there are a lot of animals out there who display emotion..albeit the simpler ones such as anger or fear. My dog can be afraid, He can be angry, I'm sure he can feel loved as do many other animals. Its been proven that primates(our closest living relatives) are more fluent in the more complex human emotions such as jealousy and envy and show great affection towards there young and take care of them in such a way that you would think they are human, but they are not. For all I know these machines could be so far advanced that it could just be programmed in there design to feel emotion. Would a robot be able to follow its heart in pursuit of something? Or simply just use logical calculation rather than rely on say..human gut. Would a robot posses what we humans describe as a soul? I'm not to sure if I could be convinced that easy, I'm more or less like Will Smiths character in I-Robot..just because a robot says he has feelings..it would take a great deal to convince me that what they say is genuine. Once again thanks for the input even if your the only one who has one at the moment

Depends how advanced these machines get. I know this isn't the movie section but again back to the movie I, Robot. The character Dr. Lanning teaches his robot so many human characteristics that the robot itself, believes it is indeed a human being. The Doctor treaches the robot such emotions as love, perhaps one of the most complicated human emotions of all. What is it exactly that qualifies you or me to be a human? A robot or machine can always get advanced enough to be considered a human. Although many won't ever consider one to be human, I believe if a machine produces enough characteristics, I would consider one to be a human. But like you said, simple human emotions as happiness and madness are a given, but others such as love and envy are top of the line emotions that will take time to learn.

 

[Xemmy]

I appreciate your input. But I think it would be difficult for me to be convinced that a machine is "human" simply because it displays human emotion. If you think about it there are a lot of animals out there who display emotion..albeit the simpler ones such as anger or fear. My dog can be afraid, He can be angry, I'm sure he can feel loved as do many other animals. Its been proven that primates(our closest living relatives) are more fluent in the more complex human emotions such as jealousy and envy and show great affection towards there young and take care of them in such a way that you would think they are human, but they are not. For all I know these machines could be so far advanced that it could just be programmed in there design to feel emotion. Would a robot be able to follow its heart in pursuit of something? Or simply just use logical calculation rather than rely on say..human gut. Would a robot posses what we humans describe as a soul? I'm not to sure if I could be convinced that easy, I'm more or less like Will Smiths character in I-Robot..just because a robot says he has feelings..it would take a great deal to convince me that what they say is genuine. Once again thanks for the input even if your the only one who has one at the moment

I-Robot isn't a good enough example for this subject. Try Bi-Centenial Man. It talks about an android who throughout his life became more and more human. It started as a quest to become more human-like, and ended in a quest to just become human. Finally he had enough biomechanical work done that he had begun to grow old. And on the day he died the courts declared him human, and the oldest human, at 200 years or so. The point is, he was a machine that became so human, that he crossed that line. He had feelings, he grew old, he loved. And I don't think souls exist in the first place so I'm going to leave that out.

My point is, feelings, complex thoughts, appearance. By the end, you wouldn't have been able to tell that he started out as a completely metallic andriod. Our minds work like computers anyway, so why couldn't computers eventually work like minds?

 

[lenguy]

I-Robot isn't a good enough example for this subject. Try Bi-Centenial Man. It talks about an android who throughout his life became more and more human. It started as a quest to become more human-like, and ended in a quest to just become human. Finally he had enough biomechanical work done that he had begun to grow old. And on the day he died the courts declared him human, and the oldest human, at 200 years or so. The point is, he was a machine that became so human, that he crossed that line. He had feelings, he grew old, he loved. And I don't think souls exist in the first place so I'm going to leave that out.

My point is, feelings, complex thoughts, appearance. By the end, you wouldn't have been able to tell that he started out as a completely metallic andriod. Our minds work like computers anyway, so why couldn't computers eventually work like minds?

I've actually never seen the movie but I see where your coming from though. There's actually something I've forgot to bring up. While for the most part in my first post I was talking about full on mechanical machines and what not. More and more often I hear talk of some kind of molecular Bio-engineering applied with uh well more or less nanotechnology which implies that humans in time will embody more and more of a mechanical features over time. We are taking small strides in this process right now with artificial hearts and prosthetic limbs along with other technologies that make our human bodies seem less obsolete but more functional.

So whats not to say 60 years from now somebody gets in a car wreck of sufficient proportion and damages his spine completely and it is then rendered unrepairable. Technology could be so far advance they get could in theory get his now useless spine replaced by an artificial one just by attaching the circuity to his nerves so his nerves could sent the proper signals up and down the spine and all over the body to make him seem new and improved. The same could be said for the brain along with any organ. The thing is where do you draw the line..where do you stop being human and start being machine?