Human Failings and Being Ashamed of Your Country

[Xemmy]

Dishonesty, greed, laziness, ignorance and corruption aren't American failings —they are inherent human failings. Be ashamed then to be Human, rather than simply American. And when you're done sulking in the corner, decrying the absolute horrors of being member to one of, if not the most privileged, affluent and democratic societies in all of human history, go out and do something about it.

In my latest Superior's War on Stupidity rant, I talked about America's recent failings and why they have made me ashamed to be American.

Liger's response is the basis of this thread. It seemed to summerize everyone's main point in disagreement with the thread.

xxx

Certain places have more of these distastful human qualities than others. For example off the top of my head- California having more crime than Canada. There are a number of factors that could lead to this. More compact population, poverty, ect.

We all know that the bad things that happen either fall under Human or Natural. The point is that some places have less human failings than others. If it's something that shouldn't be judged from territory and it's policies then wouldn't these human failings be a little more equal across the board?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Murder is "The" crime, so I'm using it for the example on this. If a country has similar population and/or wealth, it should have a similar standard on it's human qualities, but what we find is that some countries are more humane than others.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be grateful for what we have, but I think if you see something wrong with your country you should pipe up, and talk about it. Yeah, Yeah. Vote. Protest. Run for office. Do things about it instead of talking about it. If it's ok to do something about your shame (and I do what I feasibly can), whether your views be liberal or conservative, why can't you talk about it?

Is it wrong to be ashamed of your country due to it's human failings or should you just be ashamed of all of humanity? If the former, what if your country is amoung those with a higher standard of living?

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

My country suffers from the most common human condition - prejudice.

A common joke here is the a man is stopped by a gang of hoods in an area he does not know. He is asked what his religion is - unable to ascertain the religions of the gang, he thinks quickly and says atheist. To which the head of the gang replies "Are you a Protestant or a Catholic atheist?"

Now while this is meant to be a joke, it is also true. A wiser man than me once stated - a person is smart, people are dumb. Northern Ireland is a country full of people. Politics are dominated by religion - you have to go to the fifth largest party before you find an unbiased agenda (1st DUP Protestant, 2nd Sinn Feinn Roman Catholic, 3rd UUP Protestant, 4th SDLP Roman Catholic, 5th Alliance non denominational). Everyone knows the bloody history and whilst the vast majority of the population had no part in these (hate) crimes, by simple things like voting for the above parties the same majority have in some way perpetuated the division.

I'm a Protestant by birth (agnostic by design) and I have friends in pretty much every demographic. I will tell everyone that'll listen that people are just people - no matter which religious dogma they follow.

On the plus side, anyone that has ever met someone from Northern Ireland (or indeed Ireland and Scotland) will tell you that we are a warm and friendly people who will go out of their way to help you or make you feel welcome.

Damn you, stupid religious wars (and that goes double for the 'holy' wars that perpetuate the World today).

 

[Xemmy]

Add on: I'd also like to point out that ahead of time: that although crime was not mentioned in that post- Crime is the negative human condition at it's worst. Greed, Dishonest, and Corruption to be specific, which is why I've used it as the base of this thread. I think it's good way to judge a society.

 

[Calderownz]

Honestly, I'm not ashamed of my country (America) because this country isn't much different than it's been, historically.

Yes, there is MORE of certain elements that would have to be considered incredibly horrible. However, it's always gone on. We just have far more sources of this information. Compton didn't become violent in the mid-90's, we just discovered that with the help of more television channels and the internet, for example.

Things like violence, inequalities between certain neighborhoods/cultures, so on and so forth, have been ingrained in America's genetic make-up. None of these things are new. And no country on this planet can say anything differently about their lay of the land.

I am embarrassed when American's continue to brag about being number one when we don't rank number one in some of the most important statistics. That does embarrass me, because while your opinion about your country being better than others is all relative, if you're going to try and prove it, you need statistical facts. America doesn't have those facts to back that type of claim.

From 2000-2004, America ranked 78th in murder rate, obviously meaning that we kill more. We rank in the bottom half when it comes to mathematics, science and reading. 37th in terms of health care. Right behind Costa Rica. In terms of our budget deficit, we aren't even in the top ten.

So yes, it bothers/embarrasses me when idiot American's claim that we are number one, when....... we're not number one. We should stop saying we are, and start proving it.

However, the rest of the world is riddled with it's own set of problems. So, when it comes to things like murder, neglecting the poor and disenfranchised and what have you, it's humanity as a whole that genuinely drops the ball.

 

[Calderownz]

To answer the questions fully, I don't feel it can ever be wrong to be ashamed of anything. Shame isn't an opinion, it's a reaction.You can begin to realize certain aspects of whatever the subject and that might rid you of any potential shame, but it's never wrong.

In terms of your country, you can't help how you feel. However, as I mentioned, it's humanity in general that feels as if it's at an all time low. Especially with our overall advancements.

 

[Tequila Dave]

This is a hard question to answer purely because people’s ideas of what a “human failing” is differ. Sure, there is a sort of general consensus (crime is bad, corruption is bad, ignorance is bad, etc.) but there is no true right and wrong. Morals are an invention of man, and every individual has their own personalised morals. Obviously I find homicide bad, but is it a human failing purely because the majority of mankind agrees with me? Is something a failing purely because it’s not socially and morally accepted? Remember, there was a time in America when it was a failing to be a black man. Should I be ashamed of that? Should I be ashamed of mankind or mankind’s history because it doesn’t correspond to my morals? No, of course not. The only person I really have a right to be ashamed of or proud of is myself. I can’t dictate other people’s morals, all I can do is attempt to meet my own. And if my morals suggest I should try and make a difference in my local community or country, then I have a duty to do so.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

[QUOTE="Stone Cold" John Hogan;2718679]This is a hard question to answer purely because people’s ideas of what a “human failing” is differ. Sure, there is a sort of general consensus (crime is bad, corruption is bad, ignorance is bad, etc.) but there is no true right and wrong. Morals are an invention of man, and every individual has their own personalised morals.[/QUOTE]

This here caught my eye and I would like to add to it.

In the real world, the words "right" and "truth" are but vague terms. What one person believes to be morally right or morally wrong, differs to what another may believe. If someone were to believe that America is a country filled with pathetic cowardly people, then that is what they would consider to be "true" as they begin to think that such an idea is the truth. Now, if that same person were to believe that killing is wrong, than that would become what they see is "right"--killing is bad; therefore, thinking that it is wrong to kill, is right. Thus, the ideas that they form in their head as a result of the two would become their reality. The reality in which they pick what is morally accpetable and morally inacceptable.

Tying this into human failings, you have to understand the concept of what the reality of the issue is. The reality concerning the average American is that killing is bad. Therefore, people that kill are frowned upon. And if America has a high rate of homicides, then it too will be frowned upon. The reality one holds differs from that of another. However, some realities inavetably spread as a meme; thus the said reality broadens and consumes more minds as time comes along, making more believe that said reality is in fact true.

In the end, what one believes to be considered as right, another may consider it to be wrong. Thus, the morals and realities that the two live in are different. Laziness, greed, selfishness, corruptness--these are but the most commonly accepted "truths" that are formed when it comes to the reality of what a human failing is. However, as one views these as human failings, another wouldn't.

Am I ashamed of my country because of these human failings? Yea. of course I am. But, that's just due to the reality that I live in--the reality that holds the morals I see as correct or incorrect.