The 1993 Screwjob??

[HBKperfect23]

Another spin off of the Hulk Hogan what if threads. Hogan demanded Vince put the belt on him at WMIX, what if Vince decided he wasnt going to take it and went the Montreal route? Hogan is told hes going to leave with the belt only to walk back from his tag match to have a police escort ready to walk him out of the bulding?......
Does Bret retain?, Is Yokozuna the first heel to walk away from WM as champion?, Do they go Bret/Savage and delay Yokos push?, Do they go with Bret/YokoII at WMX or do we get Bret/Luger?

I think Yokozuna still wins the title. He starts a mini feud with Bret and then the feud with Luger plays out the same way. I think Savage/Bret is more of a fantasy match, Vince wanted him out of the ring. Its possible they dont go Bret/YokoII at WMX and vince decides to go Bret/Luger

 

[The Brain]

What proof is there of Hogan demanding Vince give him the belt at WM9? I doubt that happened. My guess is Vince was very willing to put the belt on Hogan. If not my guess is Hart would have retained and lost it to Yoko shortly after mania just because a heel never won the mania main event up to that point.

I don't see this thread going the way you want it to. Instead people will probably question your claim that Hogan demanded the belt. We'll see how it goes but don't be shocked if this thread ends up being closed.

 

[HBKperfect23]

Haha, I wont be offended if it gets closed. Its a wrestling forum, I dont take things that serious. And No, I dont know Hogan demanded it but I have heard that a few times and it makes sense to me. Just trying to start a discussion on an era I enjoyed.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

Another spin off of the Hulk Hogan what if threads. Hogan demanded Vince put the belt on him at WMIX, what if Vince decided he wasnt going to take it and went the Montreal route?

I need to ask this before I go any further, you actually believe Hogan REALLY demanded the title back, I mean are you of the mind that he was hardballing Vince into getting his own way? I am just curious here, because it seems to me that you are writing this from a point of view that reeks of pure backstage speculation hindsight mixed with a style of wrestling storytelling that was years away from happening, you know the whole blurring of the reality/fantasy borderline in pro wrestling. A move that became common place from the Attitude Era all the way into today's WWE.

No matter how you slice it, this thread has already started off in an asinine fashion.

Hogan is told hes going to leave with the belt only to walk back from his tag match to have a police escort ready to walk him out of the bulding?......

Would this be on the pay per view or is this what happens completely off camera? The fact you started this post off with the tired and redundant "Hogan demanded the title" schtick makes me wonder.

Does Bret retain?, Is Yokozuna the first heel to walk away from WM as champion?, Do they go Bret/Savage and delay Yokos push?, Do they go with Bret/YokoII at WMX or do we get Bret/Luger?

It would all end up the same way, in my opinion. Regardless of whether Hogan gets the belt or not.

I think Yokozuna still wins the title. He starts a mini feud with Bret and then the feud with Luger plays out the same way. I think Savage/Bret is more of a fantasy match, Vince wanted him out of the ring. Its possible they dont go Bret/YokoII at WMX and vince decides to go Bret/Luger

Just like you say because Vince wanted it, bottom line, it's Vince's company, what Vince wants to happen, I would dare guess is what will usually happen. In my opinion, Hogan winning the World Title at WrestleMania was part of Vince's bigger plan to show how destructive Yokozuna was. You see despise what most of the armchair experts like to pout about when it comes to this moment in Mania history, is that Hulk Hogan won the title off a tired Yokozuna. For a face character, this was a very cheap way to win the World Title, and at the following pay per view, Yokozuna redeemed himself very soundly in the storylines when he beat Hogan, and in traditional fashion the dastardly heel takes out the beloved face champion. See Sammartino vs Graham and you get pretty much the same scenario. And it worked, Yokozuna had a strong World title reign by heel standards, very akin to Graham's title run in the 70s.

All the while, Bret Hart, who everyone always wants to feel sorry for when this tired subject of the Mania IX controversy comes up is gaining his momentum back. He the King Of The Ring tournament, as well as going on to win (albeit with Lex Luger) the Royal Rumble at the beginning of the 1994.

Lex Luger shows promise as a main event player and it appears Vince wants another Hogan like figure as his top guy, obviously it doesn't work to the full effect, and by the time the next WrestleMania comes around it's Bret and Yokozuna for the belt once again. This time Bret wins and takes back the title from the guy who beat him in the first place. All's well that ends well, especially in the case of Bret's character in the storyline.

Maybe some of the planning had some changes and variation, but I am pretty sure what happened was Vince's call, despite what many think.

 

[xxxdaniel_ariesxxx]

I think that's the route that Vince should have went. Hogan should have been fired on the spot as soon as he walked through the curtain after the tag match. Vince should have met him with his cash payday in hand and told him to get the fuck out of the building.

As for the the WWF Championship match I would have had it end the way that it did and I would have kept the Title on Yokozuna all the way through until WrestleMania X and made the whole year about Bret Hart chasing the title. As for the feud with Luger, I don't even know why he was even hired, let alone get that close to the world title picture.

 

[HBKperfect23]

I need to ask this before I go any further, you actually believe Hogan REALLY demanded the title back, I mean are you of the mind that he was hardballing Vince into getting his own way? I am just curious here, because it seems to me that you are writing this from a point of view that reeks of pure backstage speculation hindsight mixed with a style of wrestling storytelling that was years away from happening, you know the whole blurring of the reality/fantasy borderline in pro wrestling. A move that became common place from the Attitude Era all the way into today's WWE.

No matter how you slice it, this thread has already started off in an asinine fashion.

Read above, I thought it was true, I have read it a few times (could be false, wouldnt be the first time I read something on the internet thats not true)....Again, I do not know.

Would this be on the pay per view or is this what happens completely off camera? The fact you started this post off with the tired and redundant "Hogan demanded the title" schtick makes me wonder.

This would be off camera and not acknowledged on camera. Completely hypothetical situation.

All the while, Bret Hart, who everyone always wants to feel sorry for when this tired subject of the Mania IX controversy comes up is gaining his momentum back. He the King Of The Ring tournament, as well as going on to win (albeit with Lex Luger) the Royal Rumble at the beginning of the 1994.

Im guessing this has been discuessed before?


So, rephrase the question? What if Hogan wasnt asked to win the title at WMIX?

 

[HBKperfect23]

As for the the WWF Championship match I would have had it end the way that it did and I would have kept the Title on Yokozuna all the way through until WrestleMania X and made the whole year about Bret Hart chasing the title. As for the feud with Luger, I don't even know why he was even hired, let alone get that close to the world title picture.

That would have been huge at that time with Yoko walking away champion. I would have loved to see Bret chase until WMX

 

[Syborgg]

I watched a documentary on Bret(not Wrestling with Shadows, a different one), they stated that it was Vince's idea to put the belt on Hogan. He returned shortly before WM 9 and since he was still viewed as the Icon, they thought it would be better for the business. They were wrong though because the audience had matured was ready to move on to different champions, thus the short reign and Hogan's exit.

As for how I would have liked to see the fallout from WM 9 play out: I didn't mind Yoko winning the match and would have been ok with him walking out as champ. Build a fued with Bret, then maybe with Luger and have Luger actually win the title at SummerSlam. Then perhaps have Bret work his way back into the picture and have Bret challenge Luger for the title at WM 10. However, the match between Bret and Owen at WM 10 was a classic and for that I'm glad it played out the way it did.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

It's entirely possible that Hogan "forced" the title switch. The concensus seems to be that Hogan offered to put "the next big star" over in Yokozuna... But of course most people would say that Bret was actually "the next big star" at the time and he should have faced Bret at Summerslam as originally planned.

There is a bit of evidence that Hogan forced things in how Luger was handled, his push seemed rushed and out of the blue and Bret's KOTR reign was more of a booby prize. Bret was handled pretty badly during that reign, matches with Doink and Lawler at Summerslam were pretty much a comedown. That Luger botched WMX by talking about his win the day before kinda set poetic justice in motion and Bret got the belt back, if Luger was taking the title, no way would Owen have won.

If a screwjob was gonna happen, I would have seen it be at the KOTR show rather than WMX as it would have been very damaging at Wrestlemania, certainly publicity wise. KOTR was a new concept that could be sacrificed... So if I was Vince and gonna screw Hogan... I'd have asked Hogan to drop to Bret - he'd no doubt say "That doesn't work for me brother" so I would have made a triple threat and asked Yoko to put Hogan down with a "botched" Banzai Drop, allowing Bret the quick pin.

 

[xxxdaniel_ariesxxx]

And the reason that I believe the Hogan demanding to have the title put on him is because of all of the other stories that I've heard about Hogan and his ego and demanding that things be changed to his liking and to better suit him. If it is just one story than you can always shrug it off as hearsay, but these stories have been following his career for over 20 years. The man even had a creative control clause put in his WCW contract that allowed his to change anything he wanted at any time for any, or no reason, other than because he didn't like it. there is only one reason that a person wants a stipulation like that in his contract, and that is so that he can use that control. and from everything that I've heard through the years, Hogan liked to use that control quite a lot.

 

[JJ15776]

Like most of the responses, I don't quite understand the OP. If Vince didn't want Hulk Hogan to win the title, he would've just said "No." That's all that would've been needed. No screwjob, no firing, just one simple word. No. And that would've been the end of it.

They had to screw Bret Hart because he was the champion and refused to lose the title when they wanted him to. Hulk Hogan wasn't the champion and he wasn't scheduled to be in the match. I don't think the poster above me understands how creative control works. Creative control gives you a voice, it doesn't give you the final say. It lets you say no to things, but it doesn't let you force the writers to do something they don't want to. That's why he was able to say he didn't want to lose the title to Bret Hart and SummerSlam, and instead lose it to Yokozuna at King of the Ring. But he wouldn't have been able to walk into WrestleMania (or any other show) and say "I'm going to win the title tonight." It's like a contract negotiation - both sides have to agree.

Anyway, to answer the rephrased question, if Hogan didn't win the title I think Yokozuna would've walked out of WrestleMania IX as the champion and kept it for a year until losing it to Bret Hart at WrestleMania X. I don't think anything else would've changed.

 

[HBKperfect23]

What about this scenario: They build Hogan/Yoko WMIX (which I think could have been huge)....what would they have for Bret? Who would he face?
Bret/BamBam?, Bret/Papa Shango?, Bret/Mountie?

 

[KnuckleballSchwartz]

Hogan talked Vince into putting the strap on him in return for agreeing to lose the title to Bret 1 on 1 clean. Then after Hogan got the belt he decided against that and only would lose to Yokozuna, but not cleanly.

 

[DeathClutch]

End of the day Hogan screwed Vince and Bret in 1993, the whole point was Hogan would drop the belt to Bret at the Summer Slam PPV to put Bret over "big time" Vince liked the idea considering Hogan was off doing Paradise Island or whatever it was called and he needed someone huge with the wholesome image which was Bret, family guy, clean living image he was the perfect guy considering the riod trial.

Hogan decided he wouldn't drop the belt to Bret he would Yoko and screwed Bret, Vince and THE FANS!!!

Bret then went on to do King of the Ring to put him over and start a feud with Lawler in the interim, I'm sure I'd read in Bret's book the whole point of Bret winning the KOTR was to make him look like he was more deserving of facing Hulk than starting feuds or anything.

 

[Snixon]

Another spin off of the Hulk Hogan what if threads. Hogan demanded Vince put the belt on him at WMIX, what if Vince decided he wasnt going to take it and went the Montreal route? Hogan is told hes going to leave with the belt only to walk back from his tag match to have a police escort ready to walk him out of the bulding?......
Does Bret retain?, Is Yokozuna the first heel to walk away from WM as champion?, Do they go Bret/Savage and delay Yokos push?, Do they go with Bret/YokoII at WMX or do we get Bret/Luger?

I think Yokozuna still wins the title. He starts a mini feud with Bret and then the feud with Luger plays out the same way. I think Savage/Bret is more of a fantasy match, Vince wanted him out of the ring. Its possible they dont go Bret/YokoII at WMX and vince decides to go Bret/Luger

For almost 20 years, I have stated that Randy Savage vs Bret Hart SHOULD have been the main event of Wrestlemania IX...Savage sitting out was a dunder headed McMahon decision. Today WM9 remains one of the least popular in history. And since were on the subject, Marty Jannetty should have wrestled and won the Intercontinental title from Shawn Michaels at that show.

 

[DeathClutch]

For almost 20 years, I have stated that Randy Savage vs Bret Hart SHOULD have been the main event of Wrestlemania IX...Savage sitting out was a dunder headed McMahon decision. Today WM9 remains one of the least popular in history. And since were on the subject, Marty Jannetty should have wrestled and won the Intercontinental title from Shawn Michaels at that show.

Amen to that bradah, I've thought for a while was there backstage politics/reasons Marty/Shawn didn't happen, Why Savage sat out and who in the hell thought it was good to have a Roman theme for such a show???

On paper Mania9 had some good matches but the end product lacked.

 

[Headman]

It seems more likely that the unexpected title change was done for two reasons. #1 to sweaten the pot to keep Hogan in the company. (Which didn't work.) and #2 because 99% of the WWF fans were underwhelmed with Bret Hart carrying the belt into WM in the first place. Every year we see fans scream at the top of their lungs about guys like Miz not being ready, well the same was true back then. Yes, Hogan probably pitched the idea but if he had demanded it as the OP says he did (Which is the first I've heard of this.) then wouldn't we have heard this from Vince? Vince isn't shy about talking about backstage issues that make other people look bad.

 

[OneTooManyPunts]

No chance in Hell of a Montreal Syndrome at WMIX. Hogan was the WWE, even at this point in his career. His drawing power dwarfed Hart's, even at the height of Hart's career. Also, given that Vince and Hulk were in bed together in the steroid scandal..no way Vince was screwing Hogan.

Vince screwed Bret because he knew he had an immediate replacement in drawing power in the likes of Shawn Michaels, and even Undertaker. During the WM IX period, there was no other talent ready to really step in the shoes of Hulk Hogan and draw like he did.

 

[HBKperfect23]

Yes, Hogan probably pitched the idea but if he had demanded it as the OP says he did (Which is the first I've heard of this.) then wouldn't we have heard this from Vince? Vince isn't shy about talking about backstage issues that make other people look bad.

From what I heard, a few days prior to WMIX Hogan said he'd no show if he didnt get the belt. Again, wouldnt be shocked if something I read on the internet wasnt true but I did read it on a few msg boards.

 

[EastCoastFan]

The way I heard the story, Hogan demanded the title at WrestleMania 9, and Vince GLADLY gave it to him because he knew there would be a backlash from the fans against Hogan for it.

 

[Headman]

From what I heard, a few days prior to WMIX Hogan said he'd no show if he didnt get the belt. Again, wouldnt be shocked if something I read on the internet wasnt true but I did read it on a few msg boards.

The way I heard the story, Hogan demanded the title at WrestleMania 9, and Vince GLADLY gave it to him because he knew there would be a backlash from the fans against Hogan for it.

Here's my issue with this story. This was the time period where Vince felt Hogan backstabbed him in his steroid trial. During this time Vince aired a lot of dirty laundry concerning Hogan. Of all the things said about him, shaking him down for the title wasn't one.

However I do believe Hogan pitched the twist ending, Vince liked it. Whether it was to intentionally get Hogan heat with the fans or not is anyone's guess. But at that point Hulk Hogan no showing Wrestlemania wouldn't have been a very big deal anyway seeing as Vince had been transitioning away from Hogan anyway. All it would have cost him was a participant in a tag match. This is another reason why I don't believe the story. Hogan had less leverage at this point than at any other time in his career.

 

[HBKperfect23]

All it would have cost him was a participant in a tag match. This is another reason why I don't believe the story. Hogan had less leverage at this point than at any other time in his career.

I was with you until here. Its still Hulk Hogan, the biggest draw of all time. This was advertised as part of the double main event. Vince would be in bad situation if Hogan no showed.

 

[Headman]

I was with you until here. Its still Hulk Hogan, the biggest draw of all time. This was advertised as part of the double main event. Vince would be in bad situation if Hogan no showed.

Yes it was Hogan, and it was the tag team championship. But had he not shown do you really think it would have derailed the show? Had Hogan no showed his match with Slaughter then yes, big problem. No showing when he's booked to wrestle in a tag match where half the appeal of the match is Brutus Beefcake's return to the ring after a two year break would not have been the end of the world. Savage probably would have stepped in and Hogan's vanishing act would be blamed on Money Inc putting a hit out on him like they speculated with the busted eye. Don't take this as me underestimating Hogan's drawing power but if Vince still felt it to be impossible to have Wrestlemania without Hogan then why would he have to be forced to make him champion in the first place?

 

[keith hall]

Anyone who doesnt think vince was forced to go through with it look at it this way...

Vince pushed Yokozuma as almost unbeatable...

Bret Hart...one of the greatest technical wrestlers in the world could not defeat him...(forget the powder...there was no way)...

and all of a sudden at the end of the worst wrestlemania(Bar none)...we decide that a 58 year old champion is the best thing going???...

Hell No...

But Hogan Convinced Vince...and we now have a format for money and the bank...
Attack beat up champion...Win...and lose your title at the next PPV...

 

[FlairFan2003]

didnt Hogan address this in his book, that he didnt think Hart was a big enough star to warrant a win over Hogan, which was Vince's plan ? Hart has said before that Hogan dissed him during this time and refused to wrestle him.

That said, Hogan was only brought in to save a really weak WM card, there were still legal wranglings going on re: sterroid trial, Hulk was never sticking around.

Based on what has been said by Hogan and Hart at different times I think Vince did want to protect Yoko's invinceability a bit with the way Hogan won, and I think Vince probably wanted to establish Hart as the main guy with a win over Hogan and Hogan said No. Vince would have set up Yoko's ridiculous screw job title win to establish his heel cred while protecting Hogan, leaving the door open for a Hulk return.

In any event Vince never would have done a "screwjob" with Hogan, he was too big and too valuable. He would have adjusted the finish and let Hogan go, essentially what happened.

Plus, werent Hogan and Hart supposed to headline Starrcade 98, after a year long Hart vs NWO feud and Hogan vetoed it because he would have been asked to lose ? Didnt the whole thing change with the NWO split and Hart co opted into Wolfpac to keep him away from Hogan ?