I fail to see how I got my "ass kicked." All I am saying is that MMA fighters show way more class to boxers than boxers do to MMA fighters. Never once have I heard an MMA fighter diss boxing as a sport, and it's legends while Toney, and Mayweather are two boxers who off the top of my head have dissed MMA as a sport, and questioned the legitimacy of the sports legends. I'm not denying that MMA fighters would talk shit if they were in a boxing fight. I am saying that they wouldn't go in there and say "oh Mike Tyson sucks because he can only punch." Again this is speculation, and anything is possible, but I have no reason to believe that would happen. I'm sure he didn't believe what he said, and was just trying to sell the fight though. I just don't think an MMA fighter would be that disrespectful in their shit talking.
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That was sad.
- Thread starter Dressler
- Start date
I fail to see how I got my "ass kicked." All I am saying is that MMA fighters show way more class to boxers than boxers do to MMA fighters. Never once have I heard an MMA fighter diss boxing as a sport, and it's legends while Toney, and Mayweather are two boxers who off the top of my head have dissed MMA as a sport, and questioned the legitimacy of the sports legends. I'm not denying that MMA fighters would talk shit if they were in a boxing fight. I am saying that they wouldn't go in there and say "oh Mike Tyson sucks because he can only punch." Again this is speculation, and anything is possible, but I have no reason to believe that would happen. I'm sure he didn't believe what he said, and was just trying to sell the fight though. I just don't think an MMA fighter would be that disrespectful in their shit talking.
It would be a joke. Just like it would be a joke if Toney NEVER talked any shit and said ''Yeah I'm way outclassed here and will lose". Not only would he look a fool, the card would draw like shit. This WAS James Toney's card. It doesn't matter if he talked out his ass and knew he was full of shit, he made this card exciting.
Let's not all be hypocrites now. Sonnen talked JUST as much shit about Silva as Toney did Couture, but everyone seemed to like it just fine after Sonnen whooped Silva's ass. It's the same damn thing just with a different outcome. Sonnen sold the fight just like Toney did.
Yeah Sonnen trashed talked, very true, he trashed talked for about 3 years less then Toney but it seemed like it was just as much trash talk, but you know what, Sonnen admitted that if that fight stayed standing up, he would be beat, period. He said it. He said he was going to take down Silva, cause he knew if he stood up, it wouldn't of been to good. That's respect.
As for selling the fight with trash talk, what can no one understand here, I'm all for trash talking before a fight. You wanna trash talk, go for it, but end of the day, MMA Fighters when trash talking, will and have said that yes, they wanna destroy there opponent and they hate him bla bla, but they always say its going to tough, Toney didn't say it once.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
I fail to see how I got my "ass kicked." All I am saying is that MMA fighters show way more class to boxers than boxers do to MMA fighters. Never once have I heard an MMA fighter diss boxing as a sport, and it's legends while Toney, and Mayweather are two boxers who off the top of my head have dissed MMA as a sport, and questioned the legitimacy of the sports legends. I'm not denying that MMA fighters would talk shit if they were in a boxing fight. I am saying that they wouldn't go in there and say "oh Mike Tyson sucks because he can only punch." Again this is speculation, and anything is possible, but I have no reason to believe that would happen.
and its silly, irrelevant comparison.
Why? No MMA fighter has ever ventured into boxing. No way to say how they would act, until the same situation happens.
I already answered as to why boxers and boxing enthusists say what they do. Every time they do, you should take it as a victory.
They fear you guys.
First of all, it's 2010, quit fucking use the word "diss". It's really not that difficult to type "disrespect", it's just a couple of extra letters.I fail to see how I got my "ass kicked." All I am saying is that MMA fighters show way more class to boxers than boxers do to MMA fighters. Never once have I heard an MMA fighter diss boxing as a sport, and it's legends while Toney, and Mayweather are two boxers who off the top of my head have dissed MMA as a sport, and questioned the legitimacy of the sports legends. I'm not denying that MMA fighters would talk shit if they were in a boxing fight. I am saying that they wouldn't go in there and say "oh Mike Tyson sucks because he can only punch." Again this is speculation, and anything is possible, but I have no reason to believe that would happen.
Second of all, you're telling me if Quinton Rampage signed on to do a boxing match, he wouldn't be talking shit? You really think really think if either of the Diaz brothers were scheduled to box, they wouldn't be talking smack? You're fucking nuts. And what the hell does this mean?
Then what the hell is even the discussion? If you admit MMA guys would do the same thing, why is this even a discussion?I'm not denying that MMA fighters would talk shit if they were in a boxing fight.
The fact of the matter is just because MMA guys are smart enough to know they aren't good enough to get in a boxing ring doesn't make them any more respectful than boxers.
Minor League Brian
Master of the Legendary Triple Post
I just wish Game RAGE was here to see Boxing lose. He ALWAYS said any Boxer could step in and work an MMA fight, that their foot work was already so good they could stuff any takedown. HA!
Every competent fan of either sport knew that neither discipline could walk into the other and expect to win. One is a highly focused aspect while the other is a loose assortment where the more rounded and versatile fighter is more then likely going to be the winner. Boxing just cannot except the fact they're APART of MMA and MMA is a much "bigger" discipline then Boxing. Boxing is but one aspect and honestly, not even the most important part.
Every competent fan of either sport knew that neither discipline could walk into the other and expect to win. One is a highly focused aspect while the other is a loose assortment where the more rounded and versatile fighter is more then likely going to be the winner. Boxing just cannot except the fact they're APART of MMA and MMA is a much "bigger" discipline then Boxing. Boxing is but one aspect and honestly, not even the most important part.
Via Armbar
Has a pretty good dick.
Yeah Sonnen trashed talked, very true, he trashed talked for about 3 years less then Toney but it seemed like it was just as much trash talk, but you know what, Sonnen admitted that if that fight stayed standing up, he would be beat, period. He said it. He said he was going to take down Silva, cause he knew if he stood up, it wouldn't of been to good. That's respect.
Actually Sonnen has been talking shit for a very long time, it just was ignored for the most part before the fight with Silva was announced. He has always been a douche. He said that because it was the truth. He wasn't going to tell people that he was going to stand and bang with Silva because it wasn't his plan. Did Toney talk shit saying that he was going to take down and submit Randy? Obviously not. Toney said that he does respect Couture, on multiple occasions actually.
As for selling the fight with trash talk, what can no one understand here, I'm all for trash talking before a fight. You wanna trash talk, go for it, but end of the day, MMA Fighters when trash talking, will and have said that yes, they wanna destroy there opponent and they hate him bla bla, but they always say its going to tough, Toney didn't say it once.
Because he is James Toney. So what you are saying is one type of trash talk is cool, but another isn't? If he doesn't respect someone then he just doesn't. He is entitled to that right. If you really think that he bought into his own hype and that all mma fighters are scrubs than he did his job VERY well and you bought every word of it.
They fear you guys.
Fear without Respect still means you have no respect.
Well to be fair, there have been a few MMA guys to go into boxing and while they may have looked good in whatever fights they were in at that time, they were in no way fighting in high caliber boxers. Andrei Arlovski fought at a charity event and dominated, but if you put him in the ring against Wladimer Klischtko (spelling?), he would get destroyed in a minute. Marcus Davis was a boxer who fought 20 fights plus fights, however no one ever touted his fight with Nate Diaz as a boxer vs. MMA fight. The fact of the matter is that Toney is over the hill and was under preparred for a fighting event that he knows nothing about. It is no wonder he got beat up. I would love to see Shane Carwin go fight either of the Klitcshko brothers or watch any of the current Light Heavyweight top 10 fighters go fight David Haye, my money would say that a similar outcome would befall the MMA fighter who fought those boxers.
Reddannihilation
Championship Contender
For anyone who didn't just see what happened at UFC 118, the much hyped "Boxing vs MMA" fight between James "Lights Out" Toney vs Randy "The Natural" Couture, was a (and to be fair, I'm giving Toney a chance on this), domination of MMA over Boxing. Wasn't even close. Not even for a little. Nada. No chance for Toney, didn't even come close. Nope.
I'd argue that for a 41 year old man with 9 months training he lasted longer than I thought he would.
It took Couture about 5 seconds to take Toney to the floor and from there it was over. Toney didn't know what the hell he was doing, he looked lost, he looked like the MMA Rookie that he is. He was nothing in the Octagon. You could of put a pillow out there for Couture and it would of been the same thing.
Again, a man who is solely a stand-up puncher, lost a match to a man who specializes in ground work, no one thought he would win.
Actually I believe he waved.Couture took Toney down, Couture got Toney in a Triangle Choke, Toney tapped. Plain and simple.
MMA > Boxing. Period.
This is where the big issue with what you've said comes from, there's absolutely no way this fight was definitive of which sport has the best athletes or any of that. To truly determine if one sport was superior you'd need a group of fighters representing each division and they'd have to contest an equal number of fights with some fought on boxing rules and others with MMA rules. With James Toney you've got a guy with 9 months MMA training who certainly isn't in his prime against Randy who's been an MMA fighter for years. It's a no contest, instead put a person like Danny Green up agains Chael Sonnen and see if the results are a little more hazy.
As for James Toney I felt bad for him, he talked a big game, he didn't deliver, but he looked really depressed after the fight. I really wasn't a fan of the crowd, it's pretty disrespectful to boo a man even when he was conceding defeat. TBH I found this fight to be a case of foot-in-mouth syndrome. I have the feeling that James Toney probably thought Dana White would never agree to him fighting in the UFC, when he did, Toney was backed into a corner he could either sign and lose or back off and he strikes me as too proud of person to do that.
Bottom line, anyone who thinks the fight was anything more than a sideshow to attract buys is fooling themselves. This fight hasn't proven anything in regard to whether Boxing is better than MMA or vice-versa.
Toney appeared as if he was completely lost when he was on his back, which I find very surprising. You would expect his MMA training- what little he had gotten of it- to have focused on establishing position from the bottom, as it was pretty much predictable that Couture would shoot a single or double. (I called single-leg into an arm-triangle right before the fight at the bar- I don't claim to be that good, I think the fight was that easy to predict.)
This was maybe the worst possible fight Silva could have lined up for Toney. I wonder, for boredom's sake, how he'd do with a heavyweight striker, like Cro Cop or a clinch striker like Kongo.
This was maybe the worst possible fight Silva could have lined up for Toney. I wonder, for boredom's sake, how he'd do with a heavyweight striker, like Cro Cop or a clinch striker like Kongo.
Listen, let me tell you why I was personally happy to see this happen last night.
I am sick and fucking tired of tuning into something like Around the Horn, for the host (who is young and likes MMA) to ask the panel (who are mostly of older age) if they watched the UFC that weekend, for their reply to be, "Who wants to watch two guys roll around with each other? "Blah, blah, blah." And then compliment boxing at it's the be-all-to-end-all when it comes to FIGHTING.
Fighting is what this is all about, at the end of the day. It's not about which sport is "better" or which has the best athleticism and sportsmanship, it's about fighting. And the question was answered last night... if a boxer met against a MMArtist in a back alley, who would win the fight? In most cases, the MMArtist. That's a fact, and Randy Couture proved why last night.
Did I expect any different? No, of course not, but I am happy this happened. Say what you want about James Toney... but that dude is/was a FANTASTIC boxer. His record was 72-6 with 47 or 48 knockouts for fuck's sake. Couture didn't beat some bum Mike Tyson knocked out in 43 seconds back in 1990; he beat one of the best modern Heavyweight Boxers around, and it was satisfying to witness as an MMA fan who is sick of the purist completely downplaying MMA as a sport that's either two guys "rolling around" or as "cockfighting." No, there's a science and an art to what these guys do, and Randy Couture showed the World last night that it is superior, in a FIGHT, against the science and art boxers do. Is it harder? No. Does it take more work to perfect? No. But in a fight, it's more important to have those tools than anything else.
I am sick and fucking tired of tuning into something like Around the Horn, for the host (who is young and likes MMA) to ask the panel (who are mostly of older age) if they watched the UFC that weekend, for their reply to be, "Who wants to watch two guys roll around with each other? "Blah, blah, blah." And then compliment boxing at it's the be-all-to-end-all when it comes to FIGHTING.
Fighting is what this is all about, at the end of the day. It's not about which sport is "better" or which has the best athleticism and sportsmanship, it's about fighting. And the question was answered last night... if a boxer met against a MMArtist in a back alley, who would win the fight? In most cases, the MMArtist. That's a fact, and Randy Couture proved why last night.
Did I expect any different? No, of course not, but I am happy this happened. Say what you want about James Toney... but that dude is/was a FANTASTIC boxer. His record was 72-6 with 47 or 48 knockouts for fuck's sake. Couture didn't beat some bum Mike Tyson knocked out in 43 seconds back in 1990; he beat one of the best modern Heavyweight Boxers around, and it was satisfying to witness as an MMA fan who is sick of the purist completely downplaying MMA as a sport that's either two guys "rolling around" or as "cockfighting." No, there's a science and an art to what these guys do, and Randy Couture showed the World last night that it is superior, in a FIGHT, against the science and art boxers do. Is it harder? No. Does it take more work to perfect? No. But in a fight, it's more important to have those tools than anything else.
I am not surprised by the outcome at all...
I will say this though, I was hoping Toney would or could avoid that first take down. Which we that have half a brain, or even a small amount of knowledge on MMA knew was coming quick.
I wanted to see Toney at least get to land a punch. The funny thing was, he didn't even get to THROW a punch! lol...
He talked all that shit about the smaller gloves and none of the MMA guy's feeling power like his and what not. Did you see the look on his face when Couture was landing punches on him when he was on his back? He was the one that the small gloves was working against.
The whole thing was comical and not surprising.
I give Toney props for backing up his talk though. Not about what he would do in the cage. But just the fact that he did get in there. AND it wasn't against a nobody! It was Randy Couture! A lot of boxers and MMA fighters have talked shit back and forth. But, Toney was the only one to come over to the other side and try!
But like I said, I did wanna see the guy land ONE punch.
I will say this though, I was hoping Toney would or could avoid that first take down. Which we that have half a brain, or even a small amount of knowledge on MMA knew was coming quick.
I wanted to see Toney at least get to land a punch. The funny thing was, he didn't even get to THROW a punch! lol...
He talked all that shit about the smaller gloves and none of the MMA guy's feeling power like his and what not. Did you see the look on his face when Couture was landing punches on him when he was on his back? He was the one that the small gloves was working against.
The whole thing was comical and not surprising.
I give Toney props for backing up his talk though. Not about what he would do in the cage. But just the fact that he did get in there. AND it wasn't against a nobody! It was Randy Couture! A lot of boxers and MMA fighters have talked shit back and forth. But, Toney was the only one to come over to the other side and try!
But like I said, I did wanna see the guy land ONE punch.
Goliath Uterus
Getting Noticed By Management
I pretty much knew what was gonna happen in this fight, but I still loved seeing it happen. Toney was cracking me up with his interviews, he played the perfect "heel" if you will, and really played it up like he truly thought he could come in and dominate. Couture took him down quite easily and Toney looked like he was fucking parylzed, it has hillarious.
ITurnGirlsGay
Twitter -- @FightOnTwist
I have to agree with NorCal and Klunderbunker.
There was NO way Toney was winning that fight. To be honest, I'm surprised he was on his feet as long as he was. Toney talked shit because that's his job. If Toney had been completely humble about this whole scenario would you have been interested? No. You'd have probably said "I've seen this before when Art Jimmerson fought Royce Gracie."
Instead, Toney's ignorant ass talked a whole bunch of shit and made this fight seem more appealing than it actually was.
You're seriously disillusioned, Dressler, if you think MMA fighters would have handled a "boxing match" with grace and dignity. I can only imagine what would have been said if Koscheck were lined up to fight Ward or something. Fuck, throw Sonnen in a boxing match with a pound for pound great and WATCH the amount of shit talking he does.
Fighters hype fights. Very few fighters approach a fight like Fedor or Machida. Even GSP has been caught up in the trash talking.
There was NO way Toney was winning that fight. To be honest, I'm surprised he was on his feet as long as he was. Toney talked shit because that's his job. If Toney had been completely humble about this whole scenario would you have been interested? No. You'd have probably said "I've seen this before when Art Jimmerson fought Royce Gracie."
Instead, Toney's ignorant ass talked a whole bunch of shit and made this fight seem more appealing than it actually was.
You're seriously disillusioned, Dressler, if you think MMA fighters would have handled a "boxing match" with grace and dignity. I can only imagine what would have been said if Koscheck were lined up to fight Ward or something. Fuck, throw Sonnen in a boxing match with a pound for pound great and WATCH the amount of shit talking he does.
Fighters hype fights. Very few fighters approach a fight like Fedor or Machida. Even GSP has been caught up in the trash talking.
I agree with NorCal, I also knew Toney would get 0 punches in on Couture simply because Randy wanted to take him down, beat a hole in his face, and choke him out. When you watch any pre-fight interviews involving Toney listen to what he says about his training, no take downs, no submissions, nothing. Toney went into that fight with the notion that Randy would stand and bang with him, well judging by Randy shooting in and James practically sitting down, the fight was over the second Captain America took his leg.
And I will go there and agree that yeah Couture kicked Toney's ass in his sport MMA, but the boxer would KO the wrestler in a boxing match 10/10 times. On this night though Randy Couture upheld the pride and honor associated with his sport and didnt become a headline in what was nothing short of a freakshow.
And I will go there and agree that yeah Couture kicked Toney's ass in his sport MMA, but the boxer would KO the wrestler in a boxing match 10/10 times. On this night though Randy Couture upheld the pride and honor associated with his sport and didnt become a headline in what was nothing short of a freakshow.
CJ The Pirate
Schwing
People really need to look at this as it is meant to be looked at.
I have no sympathy for James "Sponsored by K-Mart" Toney. The guy is a fool. He has entered into an MMA world. Not the other way round. The whole point of MMA is to work on the others weakness. Toney's weakness was his ground game... if you can call it game. He has entered into a fight against an MMA legend in an MMA arena and has practiced for 9 months on how to be a boxer. He had learnt nothing on the mat. No defence. No positioning. His 'MMA" stance looked like it had been taught to him days earlier. The inevitable outcome came to pass and Couture won.
But then I keep hearing the arguement. If the roles were reversed and it was a boxing match then Couture would lose... OF COURSE HE WOULD! Because he isn't a boxer. He's a greco roman wrestler. Why would he enter a boxing fight. At least in an MMA fight, Toney had the chance to use his knock out prowess. In MMA, Toney had a strength. It was just extinguished. In boxing, Couture wouldn't be allowed to use his takedowns or submissions. He'd have no strength. You might as well send me in there.
I have no sympathy for Toney. He consciously entered a world he wasn't invited into and he lost because he underestimated it. No MMA fighter has underestimated Boxing. That's why it hasn't happened and it never will.
I have no sympathy for James "Sponsored by K-Mart" Toney. The guy is a fool. He has entered into an MMA world. Not the other way round. The whole point of MMA is to work on the others weakness. Toney's weakness was his ground game... if you can call it game. He has entered into a fight against an MMA legend in an MMA arena and has practiced for 9 months on how to be a boxer. He had learnt nothing on the mat. No defence. No positioning. His 'MMA" stance looked like it had been taught to him days earlier. The inevitable outcome came to pass and Couture won.
But then I keep hearing the arguement. If the roles were reversed and it was a boxing match then Couture would lose... OF COURSE HE WOULD! Because he isn't a boxer. He's a greco roman wrestler. Why would he enter a boxing fight. At least in an MMA fight, Toney had the chance to use his knock out prowess. In MMA, Toney had a strength. It was just extinguished. In boxing, Couture wouldn't be allowed to use his takedowns or submissions. He'd have no strength. You might as well send me in there.
I have no sympathy for Toney. He consciously entered a world he wasn't invited into and he lost because he underestimated it. No MMA fighter has underestimated Boxing. That's why it hasn't happened and it never will.
Gregor_Samsa
Occasional Pre-Show
James Toney hasn't been relevant in professional boxing since he became a Heavyweight in 2003. He was once an incredibly skilled technician. His mastery of the shell defense was a treat to watch.
But this fight was really pointless in regards to any MMA vs Boxing discussion. A discussion that is pointless no matter what fights are organized.
To anyone saying Toney is a fool though, I'd have to disagree. He was in the cage for what, four minutes? And he still walked away with a six figure pay check. Good hustle, James.
But this fight was really pointless in regards to any MMA vs Boxing discussion. A discussion that is pointless no matter what fights are organized.
To anyone saying Toney is a fool though, I'd have to disagree. He was in the cage for what, four minutes? And he still walked away with a six figure pay check. Good hustle, James.
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