That was sad.

[Dressler]

For anyone who didn't just see what happened at UFC 118, the much hyped "Boxing vs MMA" fight between James "Lights Out" Toney vs Randy "The Natural" Couture, was a (and to be fair, I'm giving Toney a chance on this), domination of MMA over Boxing. Wasn't even close. Not even for a little. Nada. No chance for Toney, didn't even come close. Nope.

It took Couture about 5 seconds to take Toney to the floor and from there it was over. Toney didn't know what the hell he was doing, he looked lost, he looked like the MMA Rookie that he is. He was nothing in the Octagon. You could of put a pillow out there for Couture and it would of been the same thing.

Couture took Toney down, Couture got Toney in a Triangle Choke, Toney tapped. Plain and simple.

MMA > Boxing. Period.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Uh, whoa dude, you mean to tell me possibly the greatest MMA fighter EVER smoked a BOXER in an MMA match?

I am pretty confident if the roles were reversed, the amount of dominance would have been simular.

Ok, ok, so MMA won, but if anyone thought for a second that the result of this fight wouldnt be exactly what it was, then you are a fucking idiot.

I really wouldnt say that winning a match in YOUR sport against someone who has uh, never fucking done before was such a huge accomplishment. I would love to see Couture go against Toney in a boxing match, and see what would happen.

You don't see any MMA fighters jumping up to do that, do you?

and if that DID happen, and the boxer dominated, I would have the same opinion. Proves nothing, as tonight did. Two different things.

 

[Fizzy]

The amount of shit Toney talked Norcal it made it seem like he had more of a chance than he did. Some of the stuff he said was ludicrous, and he was so fucking confident in himself that he would win. That being said I am not surprised. Pretty much everybody knew this would happen. The only people who gave Toney a chance were the hardcore boxing fans who can't accept that MMA fighters need more skills than boxers. I am just happy it is over, and we don't have to hear Toneys mumble anymore. Fuck am I happy my favorite fighter won.

 

[INDYjon22]

It was awesome to see Couture dominate Toney like that but it really shouldn't be so shocking. We all knew that Toney had no experience in MMA and many of us also knew that he wasn't taking all of the other disciplines into account. He was solely focused on the punching aspect and made that well known. With that kind of knowledge and Randy's overall experience inside the cage, it is no wonder he took it down and exploited Toney's weakness, which he had many, but to name it it would have been his submission defense. It was obviously a feel good moment as an MMA fan but in the grand scheme of things it really didn't mean anything. If we wanted the whole boxing/MMA debate to get any sort of closure we would need to send a top MMA fighter into a boxing ring against a top boxer and the MMA guy would have to come out victorious. This fight really meant nothing in the whole MMA/boxing argument.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

The amount of shit Toney talked Norcal it made it seem like he had more of a chance than he did. Some of the stuff he said was ludicrous, and he was so fucking confident in himself that he would win.

uh, maybe to a dummy it made him seem like he had a chance. I mean, what the fuck was he SUPPOSED to say "RANDY COURTURE IS GONNA FUCK ME UP!!! YEA BITCH!!!" of course he is gonna talk shit like he is gonna win. That is wht they do, both MMA and boxing. MMA guys are acting like this is the first time someone has ever talked shit before a fight that is called whistling in the graveyard, my good man. Or, in this case, James Toney is dumb as fuck.

You guys are letting your passion for your sport make you seem a tad childish, and immensely biased.

I mean, obviously he talked shit. Um, hello, James Toney is a fucking moron

It went the exact way it should, and probably would if the roles were reversed. If an MMA fighter beats a boxer in a boxing match, or vice versa, then yea, talk shit all day.

This though, obvious outcome, and nothing to write home about.

 

[Fizzy]

It'd be ignorant to say Toney had no chance. I gave him a chance to throw a uppercut as Randy was coming in and knock him out. Randys chin is fading, and against someone with Toneys punching power it would knock him out. I never said that a boxer wouldn't beat an MMA fighter in a boxing match. Do I believe there are a few MMA fighters who could hold their own in a boxing match? Fuck yes I do. It'd be foolish not to. Toney did not have to talk all that shit.

He could have been respectful to the sport, but no he completely sold the sport and it's fighters short. Do I care that he did? No all I said was it made people overestimate him. I agree with you on the point that most likely if the roles were reversed than it would have been domination on the part of Toney. Never did I say MMA>Boxing.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

It isnt ignorant at all. Outside of a one in a million miracle punch, Toney had ZERO fucking chance, I even predicted he would get zero offensive moves, and that is exactly what happened.

I mean, if we look at this objectively, its basically a boxer vs a wrestler in a wrestling match. That is exaclty how it went

I already answered about Toney's shit talking. What else was he going to say? I imagine 100 out of 100 boxers would have done the same thing....and I am pretty sure any MMA fighter you send into a boxing ring would do the same thing.

 

[Dressler]

I never said it was shocking, if anything I wanted to say I was damn happy that Couture won the way he did, cause now no Boxer can say anything, Toney came in trash talking the shit out of MMA Fighters, yeah well, you just got a lesson to keep your fat trap shut.

 

[klunderbunker]

I know next to night about MMA and little about boxing, but the one thing I do know is that punching is one of a bunch of things involved in MMA. Toney is a boxer and therefore is going to be best at standing up and punching with someone. He has next to no knowledge of takedowns or how to do anything other than stand up and punch, so why in the world would Couture even think about trying to stand up and punch with him? You attack your opponent's weaknesses, not his strengths. If Couture had to go toe to toe with him in a boxing match, he would likely be in big trouble because punching isn't his specialty (I don't think at least). You attack a weakness. Couture did that and was more proficient with what he did than Toney. This was no shock at all and like Norcal said, if it was boxing Couture would likely have lost. Why is that? Because he isn't a boxer. It's simple.

 

[Fizzy]

I highly doubt most MMA fighters would be as abrasive towards the sport, and it's legends as Toney was, but whatever. Most would talk shit. You have to think it isn't exactly a miracle punch considering Toney is a boxing legend, and has been landing punches like that for years and years. He had a little more of a punchers chance just because he has been throwing punches like what he would have had to land for a few decades. I'm with you though Toney really stood VERY little chance. I don't think he stood no chance at all, but he stood very little chance.

 

[Dressler]

I already answered about Toney's shit talking. What else was he going to say? I imagine 100 out of 100 boxers would have done the same thing....and I am pretty sure any MMA fighter you send into a boxing ring would do the same thing.

That I find wrong. Traditionally you never hear a MMA Fighter trash talk Boxers, if anything its out most respect for Boxers that MMA Fighters have. MMA Fighters know they probably wouldn't win a Boxing match vs a Pro Boxer, and they can sure as hell admit it. See tonight, Couture even said it, he doesn't wanna stand up with Toney, why? Because Toney would smoke him standing up, that's respect. Toney on the other hand ran his mouth about anything a MMA Fighter can do, he can do better, that's disrespect. He sure as hell better have respect now.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Eh, its called selling the fight, guys. As I said, what the fuck was he supposed to do, scream and talk about how he was about to get his ass whipped? Uh, no, who the fuck is gonna buy that.

Think you guys got swept up by some good ol' heel phsycology on this one. I bet he didnt even mean about 75% of the shit he said

 

[Mighty NorCal]

You guys are SLAYING me with this shit "oh, MMA fighters wouldn't talk shit" uh, well how the fuck can you say what they would do, since it never has, not will it ever happen.

Of COURSE they would talk shit, its the only option. If you are going into a foreign enviorment were you are the outcast, you play up the heel heat.

They are fighters. Gladiators in modern day. It is what they do. Of COURSE an MMA fighter would talk shit. Come on now.

 

[Fizzy]

Eh, its called selling the fight, guys. As I said, what the fuck was he supposed to do, scream and talk about how he was about to get his ass whipped? Uh, no, who the fuck is gonna buy that.

All i'm saying is he should have been a little bit more respectful of the legends of MMA, and the sport as a whole. I don't give two fucks if he talked about how he was going to win, but I think he should have shown a bit more respect. MMA fighters respect all boxers, and the sport as a whole. Randy commented more than once on his love, and respect for boxing, and it's athletes. Would a MMA fighter who went to boxing talk shit? Fuck yea most would. All I am saying is i'm pretty sure they would be a tad more respectful. It's whatever now. All water under the bridge. I do agree though he was selling the fight which is what is most important.

 

[Dressler]

Of course he didn't mean 75% of the shit he said, I'm not saying he actually thought he could win, but theres being cocky and trash talking and then theres being a disrespecting cocky trash talker. The guy never once, not once, said anything good about MMA. He chased Dana White around for years to get a fight, saying bullshit after bullshit, never once saying anything good about MMA.

That's what pissed me off about James Toney, not that he trashed talked, fuck that, he can trash talk all he wants, but show some respect. I know MMA Fighters would.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

All i'm saying is he should have been a little bit more respectful of the legends of MMA, and the sport as a whole. I don't give two fucks if he talked about how he was going to win, but I think he should have shown a bit more respect. MMA fighters respect all boxers, and the sport as a whole. Randy commented more than once on his love, and respect for boxing, and it's athletes. It's whatever now. All water under the bridge. I do agree though he was selling the fight which is what is most important.

How the fuck do YOU know what all the MMA fighters think of boxing

of course Courture said that, Randy Courture is a 100% class act. Was also playing the face role, so he is gonna be the classy, respectfull guy, while Toney is the fat, shit talking moron. I dont mean to say its worked, but certainley played up.

Thinking an MMA fighter wouldnt be talking all kinds of shit going into a hostile alien enviornment is quite niave.

 

[Via Armbar]

Toney sold the fight with his talk. Congrats on that. He knew he was going to be whooped but I suppose the joke is on all of us because he walked away with a reported $750,000 for this one fight. He tapped all the way to the bank. I can't recall a fighter EVER being paid that much for a single fight in the UFC without being given a ppv buy rate payoff ala Lesnar.

Everyone loves boxing. What people tried to do is seem like they are all boxing enthusiasts by spouting history lessons on Toney and how he one of the all time boxing greats. Which he was to some. They tried to sound like they knew better than the rest of us because they are pure blooded boxing fans who also like mma, when in reality they knew what was going to happen. Never for a second did I believe Toney had a chance, no matter how many terrible Sherdog threads and BloodyElbow reports there were on Toney's career. Toney was never in it. He knew that, the reporters and Dana knew that and Couture knew it. They had a fight to sell, and I can guarantee that this card will do damn good numbers because of it.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Of course he didn't mean 75% of the shit he said, I'm not saying he actually thought he could win, but theres being cocky and trash talking and then theres being a disrespecting cocky trash talker. The guy never once, not once, said anything good about MMA. He chased Dana White around for years to get a fight, saying bullshit after bullshit, never once saying anything good about MMA.
That's what pissed me off about James Toney, not that he trashed talked, fuck that, he can trash talk all he wants, but show some respect. I know MMA Fighters would.

Do you even read what YOU write? Really think about that line right there, how could it not BE more fucking obvious what the deal here is? It certainley worked, didnt it?

Once the fight was done, how did he sound?

"Randy COurture is a great fighter, and he beat me, straight up"

 

[Dressler]

NorCal, I'm not disagreeing with the fact that MMA Fighters would trash talk or not. They would, plain and simple, human nature. But, over the course of time, Boxers have hated on and shown slim to no respect for MMA. Its always "Oh they can't strike this" or "All they do is role around that", I've rarely heard a boxer say "MMA is totally different from Boxing and I got respect for those guys".

And whats been MMA's answer to those? Respect the Boxers. When asked about Boxers, most MMA guys will admit that they would lose in Boxing, that its a good sport and that they have, wait for it, respect for Boxers.

 

[Fizzy]

Perhaps I worded that wrong. I don't know that for fact what all MMA fighters think of boxing. What I can say though is most respect the sport because without it MMA wouldn't likely be here. When I have heard MMA fighters talk about boxing they have said it is a much different sport than MMA because in boxing you have to worry about one area. Never once have I heard a MMA fighter question the legitimacy, and skills of a legend in boxing. I will admit that most MMA fighters would talk shit about boxing. Would they question their legends, and the legitimacy of the sport? I highly doubt it, but anything is possible. This is all purely speculation though, and I am going off what I have heard when MMA fighters have been asked about boxing. I should have worded what I said differently.

 

[Dressler]

"Randy COurture is a great fighter, and he beat me, straight up"

No shit he said that after he just got wrecked in less then 4 minutes. What was he going to say? " Oh I still think MMA sucks and I'm the best in this division". That'd be a joke.

Edit- Not to say he doesn't think Couture isn't great, just saying.

 

[Slyfox696]

Wow, this thread has basically been NorCal kicking ass all over the place. Seriously, quit arguing with him. You're wrong, he's right, and he's calling your bullshit.

The fact of the matter is that Couture is not an idiot, so he was going to take Toney down. Once he did, then the fight was over, and everyone knew it. But, just like NorCal said, you put Floyd Mayweather in a boxing ring against someone like Jose Aldo or BJ Penn, and do you really think the fight would be anything other than a Mayweather rout?

The fact of the matter is, UFC 118 had terrible drawing potential, and the only thing intriguing about it to the casual fan was watching Toney vs. Couture. And when the only thing intriguing about a card is a washed up boxer vs a 47 year old MMA fighter...you need all the smack talk you can get.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

NorCal, I'm not disagreeing with the fact that MMA Fighters would trash talk or not. They would, plain and simple, human nature. But, over the course of time, Boxers have hated on and shown slim to no respect for MMA. Its always "Oh they can't strike this" or "All they do is role around that", I've rarely heard a boxer say "MMA is totally different from Boxing and I got respect for those guys".

And whats been MMA's answer to those? Respect the Boxers. When asked about Boxers, most MMA guys will admit that they would lose in Boxing, that its a good sport and that they have, wait for it, respect for Boxers.

Well, which is the old gaurd, and which is the new cult sensation? Which is lineage, and which is the new evolution? How do you expect the roles to play out?

You know the other reason why? Becuase both sides know that in about 20 years, Boxing will be nearly or entirely extinct, and MMA will be a top 3 (maybe number 2) sport in America.

 

[Dressler]

Wow, this thread has basically been NorCal kicking ass all over the place. Seriously, quit arguing with him. You're wrong, he's right, and he's calling your bullshit.

The fact of the matter is that Couture is not an idiot, so he was going to take Toney down. Once he did, then the fight was over, and everyone knew it. But, just like NorCal said, you put Floyd Mayweather in a boxing ring against someone like Jose Aldo or BJ Penn, and do you really think the fight would be anything other than a Mayweather rout?

The fact of the matter is, UFC 118 had terrible drawing potential, and the only thing intriguing about it to the casual fan was watching Toney vs. Couture. And when the only thing intriguing about a card is a washed up boxer vs a 47 year old MMA fighter...you need all the smack talk you can get.

First off, I don't care if NorCal can out discuss me, I got nothing better to do right now so why not.

Secondly, you're right, Mayweather would rout any MMA Fighter, I wasn't debating that, its the respect level I was debating.

 

[Via Armbar]

No shit he said that after he just got wrecked in less then 4 minutes. What was he going to say? " Oh I still think MMA sucks and I'm the best in this division". That'd be a joke.

Edit- Not to say he doesn't think Couture isn't great, just saying.

It would be a joke. Just like it would be a joke if Toney NEVER talked any shit and said ''Yeah I'm way outclassed here and will lose". Not only would he look a fool, the card would draw like shit. This WAS James Toney's card. It doesn't matter if he talked out his ass and knew he was full of shit, he made this card exciting.

Let's not all be hypocrites now. Sonnen talked JUST as much shit about Silva as Toney did Couture, but everyone seemed to like it just fine after Sonnen whooped Silva's ass. It's the same damn thing just with a different outcome. Sonnen sold the fight just like Toney did.