Survivor Series 97: HBK VS Hart - One aspect of the match no one talks about

[shooter_mcgavin]

We all know that Survivor Series 1997 was the event of the Montreal Screw Job and we often talk about the backstage stories surrounding it, the after match, and many often debate which party was on the right or wrong.

However what is usually either forgotten and not talked about is the dynamic the match Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels had and, even if you take away the Montreal Screw Job out of the picture or even if it never took place, it's a very interesting one.

Survivor Series 1997 is the last (and possibly only) PPV whose Championship Main Event match was between two heels or, in others words, heel vs heel main event.

I always thought this was fascinating due to two reasons:
- It's a contrast of Shawn Michaels' and Bret Hart's WM12 encounter where it was more of a scientific match up with both wrestlers being faces and showing respect for one another. Their Survivor Series match was the exact opposite, both were heels, they hated each other, both fought dirty, and the match was basically a brawl. And you know what I found their Survivor Series 1997 match to be more entertaining before the finish, it was a brawl but had great ring psychology, they also threw in some technical wrestling, and best yet it was a fast paced match (The Iron Man Match had a ton of dead spots).

- Survivor Series 1997 was sold with a main event having both heels but despite that it was the PPV that had the most PPV buys even morese than that years Wrestlemania. It just goes to show that all heel main event can draw good numbers provided the right circumstance.

So why am I bringing this up?

Because since Survivor Series 1997 we never had a Heel vs Heel main event. Sure one can argue Rollins vs. Lesnar was a Heel vs Heel main event but you could also argue Lesnar kind of turned face already at that point. I don't think Vince and the WWF at the time had any intentions to turn either HBK or Bret Hart faces.

So my question is we have seen Face vs. Face main events a lot in recent years because it's a match that could draw. I believe the reason why face vs. face matches didn't happen in the old days is because the promoters weren't sure if it could draw.

But we have seen a heel vs. heel main event draw a PPV for the WWF at a time when business was down. So in the context of today can a heel vs. heel main event a PPV today?

I mean with todays roster we could see AJ Styles vs. Kevin Owens as heels, Lesnar vs. Owens, Lesnar vs. Styles, and other interesting combinations working a match with them acting like heels.

What do you guys think?

 

[Jaffa]

Bret wasn't really a fully fledged heel by that point anymore and hadn't really been since Summerslam of that year. Add on top of that, that the match was in Canada, where Bret was still adored and it was a face vs heel match. Bret was the face and Shawn was the heel and the crowd treated them that way. I would argue that Battleground 2015 was heel vs heel as shown by the return of the Undertaker to resume his feud with Lesnar. Lesnar wasn't really a face, he was cheered by some but his last match had been as a heel and he hasn't really done anything that resembles being a babyface since his return in 2012.

Edit: I can't really see another heel vs heel main event unless it's part of a bigger angle. Having said that, the Smackdown vs Raw elimination tag at survivor series has more heels in each team than it does faces. I don't really see the point in heel vs heel myself, especially in a main event. In the main event of any show, there should be a heroic character for the crowd to get behind.

 

[mankind72]

It was in Canada so WWE knew that there was no way Bret was heel so it worked in that aspect. . Bret could have came out, insulted the crowd for a half hour solid and still been cheered in that arena. also Bret was really only a tweener around that time. he was whiny but not out and out bad like HBK was

 

[Kyphael]

Wasn't Kurt Angle vs. Triple H for the WWF Championship at the 2001 Royal Rumble a heel vs. heel match?

Anyway, yes, I've always been a huge fan at the idea of heel vs. heel if it works. Like back in the day, I would have loved to see Mr. Perfect vs. Ravishing Rick Rude for the Intercontinental Championship. The story would have told itself, two life-long friends who came up together trying to prove who the best is. This could have worked when they were both in the WWF in the late 80's.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Strictly it's not a heel vs heel for as by definition, Bret was the face in Canada and US fans were supposed to be cheering for Shawn...

Heel v Heel rarely worked at all back then, the nearest had really been Shawn v Martel at Summerslam and even that was done with Martel more the face than Shawn...

How much of the odd dynamic was down to Bret basically "going into business for himself" in the final months to ensure he was a face in Canada for the match is another matter entirely... Vince would have preferred Bret to have kept to character, maybe let the match end in the double DQ when his boys and Shawn's interfered... but as the match went on (without knowing the backstory) it was clear that Bret was in no mood to do anything other than be the Canadian hero... It's very hard to argue this was a heel v heel main event as a result.

 

[sikkbones]

Strictly it's not a heel vs heel for as by definition, Bret was the face in Canada and US fans were supposed to be cheering for Shawn...

Heel v Heel rarely worked at all back then, the nearest had really been Shawn v Martel at Summerslam and even that was done with Martel more the face than Shawn...

How much of the odd dynamic was down to Bret basically "going into business for himself" in the final months to ensure he was a face in Canada for the match is another matter entirely... Vince would have preferred Bret to have kept to character, maybe let the match end in the double DQ when his boys and Shawn's interfered... but as the match went on (without knowing the backstory) it was clear that Bret was in no mood to do anything other than be the Canadian hero... It's very hard to argue this was a heel v heel main event as a result.

Bret's whole turn was predicated on only being the heel in the states, he was still a face everywhere else,

And unless he insulted the church, Bret was not going to get booed in Montreal, tabernac

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

Yeah Bret was clearly a face for the match but before that you're right it was a heel vs. heel feud since DX and The Hart Foundation were portrayed as heels. But to the WWE's credit leading up to Survivor Series they knew that Bret would get cheered in Canada so for the go home show to it they tried to make the Hart Foundation look sympathetic so even the US crowd may root for them. They did that by making DX trash NOD locker room and frame the Harts as racists. The Harts got blamed for it even though they had nothing to do with it. Innocent people getting blamed for stuff, especially something as serious as racism naturally makes people feel sympathy towards them. So I think WWE tried to paint them as the babyfaces at the end.

Anyway that late summer early fall time period of WWE was kinda a blur for me because I was more invested in WCW at that time but I don't remember exactly what made HBK turn heel. I know he hit Taker with the chair at Summerslam and counted him out but the shot was accidental and he had no choice but to count to 3 bc his career was on the line.

So Taker gets pissed at him for an obvious accident, how does that make HBK a heel? Again I kinda tuned WWE out in August and September of that year, but I just remember him being apologetic about it the one night then the next thing I know he's with HHH and having a Hell in the Cell match with Taker. There has to be something I missed.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

No, but it was part of Taker's build from "attraction" to legit main event star that took place in that year or so... Once he got hurt by Mabel they started using Taker much differently, and he started improving in the ring... He was never the "top worker" we now see him as then, he had to work with guys like Foley, Goldust, Vader etc in 1996 and 1997 to get to that stage... Bret was the next guy to work with him and help him learn... Once Bret was gone it was with Shawn to do so... of course they didn't expect Shawn to get hurt as he did... but that feud was as much about positioning Taker and getting him to that next in ring level so he could replace Bret and as it turned out Shawn in the main event regularly.

Taker's true gift, the one people don't acknowledge or get, is that he was a sponge in the ring... he could learn at insanely fast rates... 3 or 4 months working with Foley and Dustin and he could carry Sid to a main event at Mania, same timescales working with Bret and Shawn he could get Kane over... 4 months working with Austin and he was the guy we know now... Doubt me? look at Taker as he was at Summerslam 1995 to how he was at Summerslam 98 against Austin... literally different talents in the ring. He could literally do a years worth of improvement/experience in months once they stopped him fighting Monster of the month... Imagine what they could have done with him further back with guys like Flair, DiBiase, Davey and the like...rather than Kamala, Gonzales and Brian Lee... it's scary.