Stone Cold Steve Austin could not perform too many moves after his neck injury? WHAT?

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

This is a thread that I have wanted to make for a long time being the Austin fan that I am. Before I proceed further, let me tell you that I am in no mood to here a sermon about how having more moves does not matter much in wrestling and that it is all about storytelling and ring psychology that make you a good wrestler. I know about that, possibly better than a good number of you people that will post here. I do not want to focus on that however, I want you to focus on the question at hand.

The view of most people is that Austin could perform fewer moves after his neck injury as compared to before his neck injury. People state that he was a great technical wrestler before the injury and became more or less just a brawler after it. I, for one, have always disagreed with that. This is because I have always wondered how a neck injury that could affect your ability to perform a particular move. If he could kick and punch after a neck injury, he could sure as hell use a sharpshooter as well. That is part of my reasoning, the other part deals with something called video evidence.

Here are some of Austin's matches after his neck injury:

Spoiler

Kurt Angle v Steve Austin January 2001

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Steve Austin v Chris Benoit May 2001

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Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit Raw 2000

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These are three matches against possibly the two of the best technical wrestlers of all time, Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit. And in all the matches you can see Austin using quite a lot of holds and variations of suplexes. He uses stuff like German Suplexes and Gutwrench suplexes to go along with a Boston Crab. There is also a very good chain wrestling sequence in his match against Benoit.

Most intelligent fans would regard Austin as a great wrestler. Some even go on to say that he is the perfect example of a guy who could be a great wrestler despite having only two moves or so. I am not disputing the fact that he was a great wrestler or that, IN SOME MATCHES, mostly during 1998 and 1999, he used very few moves in his matches, but I am disputing the fact that his neck injury prevented him from performing more moves in matches.

The reason why he used few moves is because of the fact that he played the role of a brawler and because most matches in 1998 and 1999 involved nothing more than wild brawling. As such, he did not get a chance to show his technical expertise. It was more by design rather than by any sort of limitation. Everyone used just punches and kicks during that time including guys like Rock and HHH whom most people erroneously suggest could perform more moves than Austin.

The era underwent somewhat of a change in 2000 and 2001 and people started wanting to see more styles of wrestling rather than just a brawl. The arrival of guys like Kurt and Benoit also helped because they more or less ushered a style into the WWF that had been cast aside for a few years. In such an environment, Austin got a chance to show more of his technical skills and the result is there for all of us to see.

The neck injury did affect Austin but I feel that it mostly affected him bumping ability. If you see his matches in 1997, Austin bumped quite hard but his selling ability was affected a bit after his injury. He did not take huge bumps after his neck injury and never took chairshots to the back of his head, but dished out quite a few as we all know. It was a neccesary precaution and I fully understand why it was done. All I am saying is that and maybe some of his high flying moves, like a flying clothesline, were affected as a result of his injury. Nothing more and nothing less.

So now after seeing this pretty long post and a few videos would you still say that Austin could perform less moves after his neck injury?

What do you have to say regarding this matter?

 

[mrhexum]

I think you hit it on the head with it limiting his ability to take bumps. Another thing you have to factor in is that he was getting older. Most of your veterans learn to work smarter not harder. I'm sure that after the surgery that there were certain moves that he would use less because they weren't as comfortable or just too painful.

Aside from the bumps, once he went from "the Ringmaster" the brawling style suited the "Stone Cold" character much better. Steve Austin was one of the greats and always adapted and did what it took to get it done in the ring.

 

[RJJ]

Pre Wrestlemania X7, I agree, he was good in-ring. Actually I couldn't believe how good he was technically when I first saw these matches, long time ago. I think you can add his match with eddie(On smackdown I believe) to the mix. Post WM X7, he was more than limited. He slowed down big time. He couldn't move the way he used to. His knees gave away many times. He gained more weight. and like you said, he couldn't take bumps. You can tell his days with the campany were numbered. The only thing that was going for him is his mic skills. Austin has always been great on the mic, and the birth of the "What?!", was an icing on the cake.

To be honest with, he did have a great match post-wrestlemania and it was against angle at summerslam 2001. The phsycology behind that match was amazing. I don't know if you want to count the match he had with taker at backlash, but anyway, the crowd was hot and it was a decent match, IMO.

 

[rokuma]

I remember even back to his WCW days as Stunning Steve and how fantastic he was in the ring, but let's face it...the neck injury prohibited him. He was just different...not exactly worse, but different. He stuck to a more brawling style primarily after 2001 and didn't take the bumps we saw in WCW or his early WWF days. Also, I agree with mrhexum. He worked smarter, not harder and made his style adapt to his neck injury. So yes, the neck injury did change the way he worked.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Pre Wrestlemania X7, I agree, he was good in-ring. Actually I couldn't believe how good he was technically when I first saw these matches, long time ago. I think you can add his match with eddie(On smackdown I believe) to the mix. Post WM X7, he was more than limited. He slowed down big time. He couldn't move the way he used to. His knees gave away many times. He gained more weight. and like you said, he couldn't take bumps. You can tell his days with the campany were numbered. The only thing that was going for him is his mic skills. Austin has always been great on the mic, and the birth of the "What?!", was an icing on the cake.

To be honest with, he did have a great match post-wrestlemania and it was against angle at summerslam 2001. The phsycology behind that match was amazing. I don't know if you want to count the match he had with taker at backlash, but anyway, the crowd was hot and it was a decent match, IMO.

I think he did perform at a pretty high level even inside the ring upto Survivor Series 2001. You mentioned his match versus Angle at SummerSlam, there is also a match with Benoit that I have provided the video for. That was in May 2001. His return match with Angle was also good at Unforgiven 2001. There is a very good tag match with Triple H against Jericho and Benoit. When Rock returned, I think they had a match on TV which was rather good. There is also a Triple Threat between him, Kurt and RVD at No Mercy and another one at KOTR with Jericho and Benoit where Booker T interfered.

Post Survivor Series Austin was the start of his decline. His matches with Jericho were not very good and they did not seem to possess much chemistry. He still had a few good matches with Angle and Booker T. The decline really set in after WM 18, though. His match with Undertaker sucked and his matches with Flair were decent at best but mostly uninteresting.

 

[harrythem]

One thing Austin had going for him, even when he was a rookie, was that he was smart. Instead of being average at a shit load of stuff, he focused on a certain set and got them, and the crowd working timing, spot on. As he went on he added more but, to me, Austin was smart because he could do enough, with enough energy, to have a majorly top match without having to resort to doing loads of crazy shit....That, to me, is the mark of a true great.

 

[RJJ]

I think he did perform at a pretty high level even inside the ring upto Survivor Series 2001. You mentioned his match versus Angle at SummerSlam, there is also a match with Benoit that I have provided the video for. That was in May 2001. His return match with Angle was also good at Unforgiven 2001. There is a very good tag match with Triple H against Jericho and Benoit. When Rock returned, I think they had a match on TV which was rather good. There is also a Triple Threat between him, Kurt and RVD at No Mercy and another one at KOTR with Jericho and Benoit where Booker T interfered.

Post Survivor Series Austin was the start of his decline. His matches with Jericho were not very good and they did not seem to possess much chemistry. He still had a few good matches with Angle and Booker T. The decline really set in after WM 18, though. His match with Undertaker sucked and his matches with Flair were decent at best but mostly uninteresting.

Well let's see..The match with angle at unforgiven, mmm wasn't as good as the one they had at SS, It was good, but it wasn't great. The match with triple h vs benoit and Y2J(In which HHH got injured), it was a great match to be honest, but it was a team effort. against rock, you mean the one they had at rebellion? Well it was a good match, but wasn't nearly as good as their WM X7 match or even backlash 1999. Triple threat with van dam and angle, it was good, nothing more. Triple threat with jericho and benoit, it sucked! I believe both benoit and austin got injured during that match, the ending was even wrose. vs Y2J vengeance, it sucked! The crowd was dead, and both jericho and austin were tired after competing earlier that evening. I don't think they had a good chemistry with each other anyway. NoWayOut with jericho, same thing, the match sucked. vs hall at mania, avg. vs taker at backlash, avg.


Look, I'm not saying he didn't have any good matches, but comparing to post WM 17, he sucked as an in ring performer.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Well let's see..The match with angle at unforgiven, mmm wasn't as good as the one they had at SS, It was good, but it wasn't great. The match with triple h vs benoit and Y2J(In which HHH got injured), it was a great match to be honest, but it was a team effort. against rock, you mean the one they had at rebellion? Well it was a good match, but wasn't nearly as good as their WM X7 match or even backlash 1999. Triple threat with van dam and angle, it was good, nothing more. Triple threat with jericho and benoit, it sucked! I believe both benoit and austin got injured during that match, the ending was even wrose. vs Y2J vengeance, it sucked! The crowd was dead, and both jericho and austin were tired after competing earlier that evening. I don't think they had a good chemistry with each other anyway. NoWayOut with jericho, same thing, the match sucked. vs hall at mania, avg. vs taker at backlash, avg.


Look, I'm not saying he didn't have any good matches, but comparing to post WM 17, he sucked as an in ring performer.

By that token he "sucked" from the moment Owen dropped him on his head...
Think he started changing earlier....Austin had to adapt from even the period in WCW, when he was always injury prone... his style evolved to eliminate physical weaknesses since the day he famously "slipped on Duggan".

The Summerslam neck injury meant his movelist was reduced, but he augmented it with the brawling style that got him properly over... as time went on his injuries clearly became worse so the bumping was reduced... but bumping is not a move perse... the core of his style was there, the Thesz press, the Stunner and the Knee Drops were constants... it was just the transitions he changed... and adapted...

 

[RJJ]

True, but I'm not talking about 1998-1999, I'm talking about austin before WM 17(Unforgiven 2000 - WM X7) and after WM 17(WM X7 - Judgement Day 2002). There is a huge different.

It's not about his style or moveset, it's about the way he moved in the ring, the time he took to get up after a bump, the way he sold moves, and even his physical condition. 2001 was a rough year for him, he had alot of injuries. Broken hand, blown knees, neck problems, that took a big toll on his body. I've seen him getting seriously hurt through out that year. From getting suplexed to a table by booker which caused a broken hand, to taking a big chair shot to the back of the head by vince.

Wrestlemania 17 was the turning point for austin.

 

[bongorider]

Isn't the answer pretty obvious? After his neck injury he was very limited, mid 97 to late 2000. Then when he came back after surgery, he was much better. That was when he had his great matches you're talking about. The surgery helped him a lot at first, but the injuries began to mount up again.

 

[TM Punk]

Austin's big mistake was that he did not get surgery after the owen incident happened. He didn't want to take a whole year off, because he was so hot at the time of the injury. So instead of being out for a year, he was out for a few months. So the first year or so after the injury he was fine. He was in pain, but he was still able to perform. As we all know he started really feeling it around mania 15. That's when he started to slow down. Then the surgery came, he fully recovered, and his neck was good to go. He may have been performing on borrowed time, but he was back at 100% for the time being. Evidence of how good his neck was feeling would be the three stages of hell match with HHH. Amazing match, and austin took about 300 bumps onto a chair that match. I think what slowed him down in late 02' - 03' was his knees. I remember watching the mania 19 special on UPN and seeing austin after the match, he could barely walk. I mean sure, the doctors probably suggested to him that it was a good idea to not wrestle so that his neck wouldn't mess up again, but after the surgery I don't think it was that which was slowing him down. I think it was his knees. The only thing his neck would really effect as has been said, is his bumping. The knees are what effect moveset. And as is with many wrestlers, the knees are what go first.

Now look at edge, same sort of injury, probably worse. Both men stopped wrestling at around the same age, edge may have been a few years older. Did you EVER get the sense that edge was slowing down? If he did, I never noticed. He still participated in ladder matches, he still took big bumps, he was still the same as ever in the ring. Why? Because he has cariledge in his knees still.

Fast forward to wrestlemania next year, NOT...NOT THIS YEAR. If he wants to have a match with CM Punk, I'm sure he'll be more than capable. And it may be his best match in 15 years.

 

[Deadman87]

Liking this Thread, i remember awhile ago i watched a Interview with Austin and we was talking about early in his career, before i think he started at WCW when he was in the territories. He said he put on a match in which he believed he put on a great match, although the crowd didn't enjoy it and started booing him. He came in and said he didn't understand why he got booed. The Promoter told him to sit in a chair and watch every single match and observe how to work the crowd, and learn the in-ring psychology.

From this interview I understood what makes good wrestlers great and why Austin was such a superstar. Sometimes Austin didn't need a get repetior on Moves. Because the story in the ring didn't require it.

Yes Austins move set sometimes wasn't vast, but looking at the matches in the videos and remembering Austin, he could go and put on any match when needed. And Yes sometimes he didn't use alot of moves, but he didn't need to.

To me this thread just amplifies why Austin is in the HOF.

 

[The Brain]

Isn't the answer pretty obvious? After his neck injury he was very limited, mid 97 to late 2000. Then when he came back after surgery, he was much better. That was when he had his great matches you're talking about. The surgery helped him a lot at first, but the injuries began to mount up again.

That's what I was thinking. I remember watching him against Angle, Regal, and Benoit and thinking the surgery really helped. Too bad it was only a temporary solution. Austin has said by 2002 the injuries were becoming unbearable.

There is also something to be said for his gimmick in 1997-1999. He was the world's toughest SOB. You expect the worlds toughest SOB to stomp a mudhole in someone rather than execute wrist locks and drop toe holds. Also his opponents during that time weren't really known for their mat technique. He was always fighting Foley, Taker, Kane, Rock, and Vince. All these opponents were better suited for a brawl. The matches in early 2001 were against Angle, Regal, and Benoit. Even without the injury and surgery you would have to expect a different style when against those opponents.

There's no doubt the injury effected Austin. I'm sure there were bumps he was reluctant to take but it probably didn't make him the fragile china doll that a lot of people think.

 

[RJJ]

Liking this Thread, i remember awhile ago i watched a Interview with Austin and we was talking about early in his career, before i think he started at WCW when he was in the territories. He said he put on a match in which he believed he put on a great match, although the crowd didn't enjoy it and started booing him. He came in and said he didn't understand why he got booed. The Promoter told him to sit in a chair and watch every single match and observe how to work the crowd, and learn the in-ring psychology.

From this interview I understood what makes good wrestlers great and why Austin was such a superstar. Sometimes Austin didn't need a get repetior on Moves. Because the story in the ring didn't require it.

Yes Austins move set sometimes wasn't vast, but looking at the matches in the videos and remembering Austin, he could go and put on any match when needed. And Yes sometimes he didn't use alot of moves, but he didn't need to.

To me this thread just amplifies why Austin is in the HOF.

I agree. IMO, austin is the master of in ring phsycology. He and HBK are at the top of the list when it comes to that category. And yes the "SCSA" character didn't need that much moves, but that doesn't mean he couldn't.