Sports Fans and the Racial Divide

[IrishCanadian25]

Ok, so earlier in the week I posted two threads asking you to rate your 5 most liked and disliked athletes. Overall, I was pleased with the results. A lot of them stemmed from personal feelings about sports teams / athletes, and that's fair.

But the recent study on "Q" scores tells a different story. One with racial undertones.

Shannon Owens from the Orlando Sentinel took the results of the "Q" scores (which measure meployee like-ability) and discussed the racial divide that may exists in the minds of sports fans.

The Most Liked Athletes
1. Michael Jordan
2. John Madden
3. Shaun White
4. Peyton Manning
5. Joe Montana
6. Arnold Palmer
7. Jerry Rice
8. Nolan RYan
9. Julius Irving
10. Magic Johnson

The Most Disliked Athletes
1. Michael Vick
2. Tiger Woods
3. Terrell Owens
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Chad Ochocinco
6. LeBron James
7. Robby Gordon
8. Ben Roethlisberger
9. Alex Rodriguez
10. Juan Pablo Montoya

All top 6 of the least likes athletes? African-American.

4 total African-Americans on the liked list...including the bottom 2.

LeBron James, who legally made the choice to take less money to play for a title in Miami with his friends on a prime time special to raise money for a Boys and Girls Club was considered more disliked than Ben Roethlisberger, who allegedly date raped a 20-year old drunk girl at a night club while his buddies watched for people trying to intrude.

WHAT!?

Brett Favre, Mr. Retire-Unretire, apparently still climbed near the top 10 most liked. Chad Ochocinco, who has played for the Bengals consistently and never had legal issues, was top 5 disliked.

Shannon Owens' article can be read here:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-09-17/sports/os-shannonowens-liked-disliked-athlet20100917_1_african-american-athletes-woods-and-kobe-bryant-personality-groups

Is the perception of the African American athlete deservedly negative? Is the average American sports fan racist?

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

People had Chad Ochocinco because he changed his freaking name. Thus, it seems as though he is an egotistical, self-obsessed, non-team-player. I'm not sure race has much to do with it. If it does, it's just the psychological fact that people are naturally more scared of darker things.

How is Mark McGwire not on there?

 

[jmt225]

What's the percentage of black athletes compared to white athletes in sports?

I mean, you look at the NFL and NBA... I don't see many white guys, with the exception of quarterbacks and offensive lineman. That's it. Honestly, with the exception of Ben Roethlisberger, I can't find a single reason to hate a white person in the NFL, unless they fucked over your team or is the star of the team you hate. They're for the most part well-spoken individuals who don't get in trouble with the law. However, best believe that if someone like Tom Brady got a DUI this past Tuesday rather than Braylon Edwards, the shit storm would have been MUCH worse with him in the media and with fans than what Braylon has had to go through.

But basically, it all has to do with numbers. There are just way more blacks in professional sports than there are whites, which means there are way more unlikeable black guys in sports than there are white guys.

Seriously, let's ask this exact same question, except with actors instead of athletes. There will be WAY more white guys/gals who end up on people's dislike list than black guys. Why? Because there are a LOT more white famous actors than there are famous black actors. It's all about numbers.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

So, what's the defense for Michael Vick's hate? I didn't see said threads, but I will forever hate Michael Vick for what he did to those dogs. Fuck him. I hope Lucifer has a special place in toilet bowl for him.

And if you look at the lists, there is a big difference between the characters in general. The most liked ones can be deemed "inspiring". One guy I am surprised isn't on the liked list is Walter Payton, but I digress. Michael Jordan, even with his love for gambling, is considered one of the most influential basketball players ever because he worked hard, won a bunch of stuff, and was still a very likable guy.


If you do want to bring race into the topic of sport fan-ism, any real reason so many black athletes act like everything is suppose to revolve around them in comparison to other races today?

 

[Platypus Palsy]

I went back and checked, and my top 3 liked were black. I'll admit my Lebron pick on the disliked list was because of butthurtness, and he should've been 5th and Ruthlessraper at 3, but oh well.

After all these years, I don't think most sports fans are racist anymore. There's a high percentage of black people in the NFL and the NBA, making it pretty hard to be racist with hating most of your favorite team's players.

The fact that there aren't too many on the most liked is, the large percentage of black athletes affects these numbers. Most athletes also aren't total assholes or whatever, so the number of most hated that are rational are rather low. Most of those Lebron votes were probably butthurt like mine, so I don't put much stock in that. Give it several years and he'll probably fall off that list unless he acts like an asshole some more.

 

[Davi323]

Sorry IC25, there are good reasons for most of the guys on the dislike list that have nothing to do with race, and a lot to do with the stupid ass shit they have done.12 months ago, Tiger Woods would have been in the like category, not the dislike. What changed? Gee, I dunno, maybe the getting caught cheating with like 10 different women? Michael Vick 5 years ago would also not be making an appearance on the dislike list, but the fucker decided to get into the dog fighting business. If you want to simply look at the color, and disregard other far more important mitigating factors, you could claim its racist...but almost everyone on the dislike list has somehow gotten in trouble with the law, and/or had serious blows done to their character because of actions they brought upon themselves. Their own actions are what led to them being disliked, not because sports fans are inherently racist. You are oversimplifying it, or the author from the "Q" is.

Were his stats broken down by race? How many responders were white? How many were black? Where did the responders come from? What age were they? How many were men, how many were women? These are all important factors in determining results. Without knowing that information, its hard to treat the results legitimately. Any one of those factors could potentially skew the data the direction the author of the Orlando Sentinel article wanted. Without the actual statistical makeup of those polled, the results are useless.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Sorry IC25, there are good reasons for most of the guys on the dislike list that have nothing to do with race, and a lot to do with the stupid ass shit they have done.12 months ago, Tiger Woods would have been in the like category, not the dislike. What changed? Gee, I dunno, maybe the getting caught cheating with like 10 different women? Michael Vick 5 years ago would also not be making an appearance on the dislike list, but the fucker decided to get into the dog fighting business. If you want to simply look at the color, and disregard other far more important mitigating factors, you could claim its racist...but almost everyone on the dislike list has somehow gotten in trouble with the law, and/or had serious blows done to their character because of actions they brought upon themselves. Their own actions are what led to them being disliked, not because sports fans are inherently racist. You are oversimplifying it, or the author from the "Q" is.

Were his stats broken down by race? How many responders were white? How many were black? Where did the responders come from? What age were they? How many were men, how many were women? These are all important factors in determining results. Without knowing that information, its hard to treat the results legitimately. Any one of those factors could potentially skew the data the direction the author of the Orlando Sentinel article wanted. Without the actual statistical makeup of those polled, the results are useless.

The "Q" score list is actually done by an independent marketing research firm. They do it every year for athletes, actors, personalities, etc. Why? Well, because advertisers and marketers pay SICK money for information on which personalities are well-liked and identified by fans. If Jordan weren't on this most liked list for so long, do you think he'd still be in so many commercials? Incidentally, the research is done with a sample size of 15,000 racially and gender-diverse individuals which represent the US population as a whole.

The woman who wrote the article I linked in my OP is a black female who noticed the racial disparity. And she's right. Let's back track a bit.

Michael Vick - black athlete who financed a dog fighting ring, #1 on the list.

Jim Leyritz - white former athlete who got drunk, drove, and killed somebody. Not on the list.

Let me ask you - what have Terrell Owens and Chad Ochocino every really done aside from some playful boasting (in Ocho's case) and some QB alienation (in Owens' case)? I mean, neither of them have broken any law. If they go too far with a celebration, the league fines them, and all the fine money goes to charity. What did LeBron James to other than make a bit of a fanfare over his move to Miami - a fanfare which the media truly was responsible for amping up? How long has it been since Kobe was acquitted on rape charges? 5 years? And what he did was plain and simple adultery, which athletes commit all the time.

John Madden makes the most liked list for a fucking video game, and Mark McGuire, Rafael Palmero, and Roger Clemens don't even rate the top 12 in the disliked athletes list despite blatantly cheating the game?

Dudes, face it. White sports fans - a majority in the US - are jealous of minority athletes who make more than they make and flaunt it. It's also why #9 (A-Rod) and #10 (Montoya) are of Hispanic or Spanish descent. There is a clear racial divide in sports today, and when consumers are rating black athletes as less likable for far less serious transgressions, it causes marketers to disproportionately use white athletes in advertising.

 

[Davi323]

Stats can be used to mean anything you want.

Without knowing the makeup of those polled, how can you assume its the white sports fans? Do you know if it was the white people voting against Vick? You don't. Do black people not care about dogs as much as white people? Ray Lewis may have gotten away with murdering someone, OJ Simpson DID get away with murder, yet neither of them are on the dislike list, and they are black. Athletes with massive egos annoy the piss out of me, regardless of race. TO is hated because he is an asshole, not because he is black.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Stats can be used to mean anything you want.

Sure they can. But there's a reason why marketers use the "Q" Scores year in, year out. It's because there is a proven validity and reliability to the tests they run. If the tests were arbitrary, marketers wouldn't pay dick for them.

Without knowing the makeup of those polled, how can you assume its the white sports fans?

I don't know, but I can assume it because it behooves the marketing company that produces these scores to take a diverse sample that represents the total population. I assume that since the African American population in the United States is somewhere between 11-13%, that of the 15,000 people polled, 1650 - 2000 of them were African American, whereas a fair percentage were Hispanic / Latino. Still, it's safe to assume that a solid 60%-70% of those polled were caucasian.

Do you know if it was the white people voting against Vick? You don't.

You're right, I don't.

Do black people not care about dogs as much as white people?

Dog fighting is a part of the predominately black deep south culture. It's why you don't hear about dog fighting in Vermont whereas you will in West Virginia and Mississippi.

Ray Lewis may have gotten away with murdering someone

He was clearly acquitted...and the evidence suggested that he wasn't the murderer.

OJ Simpson DID get away with murder

You don't KNOW that...you weren't THERE...

yet neither of them are on the dislike list, and they are black.

Surprising to say the least. Ray Lewis is still quite popular, and OJ Simpson was at least punished for his kidnapping / armed robbery deal, so that gives people some sense of closure. Also, OJ disappeared after his trial, which is why he wouldn't have come to the forefront of peoples minds the way Vick, LeBron, or Kobe would have.

Athletes with massive egos annoy the piss out of me, regardless of race. TO is hated because he is an asshole, not because he is black.

And yet the egotistical black athletes (TO, Ochocinco) are more universally disliked than the egotistical white athletes, including those who cheat the game (Clemens).

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Davi, I just did some research and found this out:

-Studies are fielded once each year in March.

-Each study measures approximately 500 personalities, whose names and descriptions are submitted by full-study subscribing clients. Individual orders are also accepted.

-Each personality is rated by a nationally representative sample of 2,000 teens (12-17) and adults (18-64).

In addition, 51 sports/activities are rated to track their year-to-year appeal, while personality appeal is tabulated among specific sports "fans."

So my total sample size was wrong - it's 4,000 not 15,000, but the term "nationally representative" denotes a study that is conducted with the sample size (in this case, 2000 teens and 2000 adults) with a directly correlated racial and gender make up.

Which begs the question-

Is the fact that a likely 51% of the sample size were females have a greater effect on the scores than the racial issue does?

Look at the perceived trangressions of the 10 most disliked athletes: dog fighting, womanizing, egotism. Not popular things among women.

Which is more indicative of the results - race or gender?

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

Which begs the question-

Is the fact that a likely 51% of the sample size were females have a greater effect on the scores than the racial issue does?

Look at the perceived trangressions of the 10 most disliked athletes: dog fighting, womanizing, egotism. Not popular things among women.

Which is more indicative of the results - race or gender?

I would say that the 51% does in fact play a bigger part than the racial issue here. Major media outlets like ESPN also play a major role in lists like this.

The fact that the number 1 most liked athlete on this list is an African American completely disproves her theory in my opinion. This comes off as someone trying to make an issue out of something that isn't even close to being an issue.

Michael Vick - This is much more of a woman's issue than anything else, I don't think being black has anything to do with Vick's hate, this clearly stems from his dog fighting past.

Tiger Woods- again, another issue amongst the ladies. How many husbands have had to tuck their balls away on this issue, a lot of them. Guys are hating on Tiger becuase he's slamming so much pussy, this has clearly offended the ladies.

T.O and Ochocinco - I blame these two on the Espn. Espn has been riding the hate train with both of these guys for many years. If you only ever hear negative things about these guys than I'm sure that's going to effect a list like this.

Lebron - He was on the otherside of this list just a year ago, and he was black back then too, so I don't think there has been a sudden realization that Lebron James is a black man.

To me it seems as if they are trying to stir the pot for no reason at all, trying to pull a racial issue out of the hat here.

Pro sports viewership is largely dominated by males, so to poll more females than males in this type of poll just doesn't make much sense to me.

Also, Magic Johnson, an African American who suffers from HIV is on the most popular list, that alone debunks any racial issues here. This women is clearly trying to stir the racial pot, and anyone who decided to simply lift up the sheets can see what she is trying to do here.

Are we not past a time where we can stop trying to create racial issues where there aren't any. In this day and age I find it hard to believe that people don't like certain athletes just because there black, and this list proves absolutely nothing.

This is clearly way more of a gender issue than a race issue, but even at that I don't find too much wrong with the list. The dislike speaks more to their popularity than it does to there race, as everything with a pole usually boils down to a popularity contest.

 

[The People's Peep]

The main thing that I find interesting here is who they polled. After reading the criteria that IC presented, I'm still a little confused about the degree of "sports-fanaticism" in the people polled.

I looked back at the two previous threads you made and none of us put Ochocinco on our disliked lists. However, he was on the liked lists several times. I'm pretty sure that all of us posting in here are "sports fans", and none of us dislike Chad. If the people polled were barely "sports fans", their main perception of these athletes comes from media outlets that showcase their actions outside of sports. They hear about the controversy caused from these guys and automatically dislike them. I mean, all of the people disliked are pretty deserving of that title. They did bad things. But some of the people liked have connections outside of sports that exposed them to non sports fans. Peyton, Jerry, Shaun, and MJ are also well known for things outside of sports, mainly TV. It makes me question how much of a sports fan the people polled are. Other than that, I think the race thing is just coincidence.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Wow, some terrific points have been raised here.

One thing I'd like to point out - the people who purchase the info on the "Q" scores are marketers who sell their products to more people than just sports fans. I'll give you an example - Andre Agassi. The writer of the article on the racial divide brings this up as well.

Agassi was among the tops in popularity / recognizability when the Q-scores originated in 1990. It was Pete Sampras dominating tennis, but he was such a prat. Agassi was more approachable, more charismatic, and far more recognizable. He had a unique look and attitude, he was the rebel in the tight-collared tennis community, and he was banging Brooke Sheilds. Good show, sir.

The Q Scores showed that he was a top sports personality, so Canon scooped him up and made him a central celeb figure in the marketing of their cameras. They even went so far as to pattern the "Canon Rebel" after Agassi to make the product and the campaign really pop. Holy shit, did it ever work. But the Canon commercials with Agassi weren't only seen during sporting events or on ESPN. They were seen EVERYWHERE and by EVERYBODY. The fact that Agassi was so recognized and well liked that he transcended conventional "sports fan" knowledge is where the value in the Q Scores lie.

Same thing with Jordan. He isn't just liked - EVERYBODY knows who he is and what he looks like. So he's a marketing machine.

It's also not too hard to see why guys like Tiger and LeBron go from the top-10 liked to the top-10 disliked. They are still very recognizable (whereas many couldn't pick Jim Leyritz out of a Yankee lineup, or a police lineup for that matter) and simply shifted from being recognizable for a good reason to a negative one.

Look at how many olympic athletes are on the list. Why? It was polled shortly after the olympics ended. Next year's results won't see so many olympians on it. But I bet Landon Donovon makes it...

 

[gd]

Looking at my list, I was pretty evenly split. I'm not a racist. Yipee!

Anyway, looking at the disliked list you have a guy who murdered dogs, a guy who cheated on his wife with multiple porn stars and cocktail watiresses, possible the most self centered athlete in team sports who has a VH1 reality show, a guy who went to trial after being accused of rape, one of the cockiest athletes in sports who has also has a VH1 reality show, and a guy who completely embarassed an entire ciry in a completely narcissitic manner. That's your top 6. Regardless of race, these guys do have reasons to be disliked.

It also has a lot to do with how recongnizable these guys are. A large majority of great athlete's are black, that's the truth. The more recognizable you are, the better chance people will dislike you or that you'll suffer a sudden fall from grace. I believe LeBron, even before The Decision, had fairly high dislike numbers simply because he was so popular.

Michael Vick - black athlete who financed a dog fighting ring, #1 on the list.

Jim Leyritz - white former athlete who got drunk, drove, and killed somebody. Not on the list.

This isn't as much about race as it is about everyone knowing who Vick is and virtually no one knowing who Leyritz is.

 

[Big Sexy]

Honestly when it comes to famous athletes there are far more black ones then white ones so that is part of why so many black athletes make the disliked list. As for why there are so many white athletes on the liked lists it's easy. They can be related to more. It's not always about how great of a person an athlete is but how easily they can be related to. There are more sports fans that can relate themselves to Peyton Manning then to Michael Vick.

Also as People's Peep said we don't really know who exactly was surveyed. Were there sports fans from predominantly black neighborhoods surveyed? Or was this just middle America blue collar types. There really isn't enough information to equate this to racism.

 

[Davi323]

Is the fact that a likely 51% of the sample size were females have a greater effect on the scores than the racial issue does?

Look at the perceived trangressions of the 10 most disliked athletes: dog fighting, womanizing, egotism. Not popular things among women.

Which is more indicative of the results - race or gender?

This is a MUCH better question, I think...If the question was one of sex, I think I would have had a much easier time with it. Personally, I think most men that watch team sports aren't racist. They really can't be. Look at baseball, for example. There are going to be white guys and black guys, latino guys and asian guys on the same team, depending on the sport...The same guy who loves his team is going to be rooting for them all to do well, not just white guys, not just the black guys. Most people will root for the players on their team, regardless of race.

However, when you make it about the type of transgression, and correlate that with which type of transgressions women tend to find more appalling, the results make more sense than just a race related one.

 

[ThePeoplesChampion]

So, what's the defense for Michael Vick's hate? I didn't see said threads, but I will forever hate Michael Vick for what he did to those dogs. Fuck him. I hope Lucifer has a special place in toilet bowl for him.

And if you look at the lists, there is a big difference between the characters in general. The most liked ones can be deemed "inspiring". One guy I am surprised isn't on the liked list is Walter Payton, but I digress. Michael Jordan, even with his love for gambling, is considered one of the most influential basketball players ever because he worked hard, won a bunch of stuff, and was still a very likable guy.


If you do want to bring race into the topic of sport fan-ism, any real reason so many black athletes act like everything is suppose to revolve around them in comparison to other races today?

For one i just Want to thank you for mentioning my all time hero in Walter Payton truly a great man and player.

I love animals but i dont see why Big Ben is under Mike Vick...Ben did much worse...but someone had a point there are much more African American athletes in the 3 major sports in America (football, basketball and baseball)...so i dont think its rascism to some these people for instance Tiger Woods have more spotlight than Big Ben..cause i dont here people sayin i hate him cause he's black and did this...now i think its racist on how much a person is hated compared to others...perfect example...Mike Vick & Big Ben....Vick killed animals....Ben raped two girls( allegedly) but vick is hated more? and an example of the spotlight as well...Vick was by far the most popular player before the dog incident...after words he is public enemy #1....Donte Stallworth drunk and drove and killed a man yet no where on the list because he not as big a star.