Something NXT does wrong!

[d_henderson1810]

Yes, I said it. NXT is not the perfect, never-fail federation that the WWE could learn a thing or two from.

I know most here like to use this equation:-

NXT= Everything good about wrestling
WWE = Nothing good about wrestling.

Everything NXT does is right,and they shit gold, according to all of you. Every superstar from it is considered superior to Cena, Orton etc, and the WWE guard should do the job for the NXT guys and girls EVERY SINGLE TIME!

However, I watched NXT the other day, and saw a tag-team which will never make it onto the main roster. They are a joke. They are called the "Vaudevillians".

Firstly, the commentators kept calling them the "VAUDE-VILLIANS" when it should be pronounced "VAUDER-VILL-E-ANS" as in vaudeville.

Secondly, have you seen their arms? Never have I seen two more anorexic, skinny superstars in my life. They need to fail the Wellness policy. They need help jacking up. It is impossible to believe that Simon Gotch, with his ridiculous mustache, could break a twig, let alone applying a hold of any force on even skinny Daniel Bryan, let alone a jacked-up John Cena. And yet people bag the Ascension for dressing like the Road Warriors, when at least Viktor and Konnor look like that they could injure people. I suspect most Divas, and possibly even Hornswoggle and El Torito could whip the Vaudevillians' skinny asses.

Get rid of the terrible gimmick (and yet WWE sacked Kizarny for doing the same gimmick), hit the weights, (and the steroids) and at least look like a WWE superstar, rather than two kids playing wrestling in the backyard.

So, what do you think of the Vaudevillians? Can't wait to hear the spin about how they are better than the Usos, the Ascension, Los Matadores, New Day, and other teams (except for, of course, Kidd and Cesaro, since most of you get stiffies for the skinny, uncharismatic Cesaro, just because he came from NXT).

 

[MartialHorror]

Personally, I'm fine with the Vaudevillains although it should be noted that I only recently decided to watch NXT on a full-time basis. Do I really want them to get pushed? Not necessarily, but I find their gimmick to me more entertaining than Los Matadores.

NXT is pretty overrated on a show-to-show basis, although the episodes are too short for the badness to stick out. Their special events like Takeover tend to excel, however. My biggest issue with NXT is the crowds. Either they're dead silent or they cheer for everything. Yay, it's Sami Zayn! Yay, Sami Zayn is being murdered by Kevin Owens!

On another note, tone down the snark. Many- if not most- readers will be drawn to your attitude than your point and it will only reinforce the NXT worship.

 

[SJ5522]

Cesaro is skinny? As opposed to fat? Sure. Generally speaking? Don't make me laugh, I'd love to watch you tell him that. He even looks good compared to most of the roster so I have no idea what you're talking about. If we wanna talk about meh physiques (which is lame anyway cos from Spike Dudley to Earthquake any physique can be good for wrestling if the worker is good) how about The Miz? Dolph? Hell even Kidd. Cesaro is one of WWE's best active performers in the ring atm, that's why he's liked both on the internet and by the crowds. Not sure how that can pass you by.
I'm a NXT fan but not a blind devotee and I doubt there are as many of those as you are making out there are. Some of the shows are kind of unremarkable but I just think it's a great fucking idea to give a real platform to guys who are either definitely about to come into the main shows, or guys who are just possibilities, a proper platform where things matter, not like Heat or Velocity. The talent there usually speaks for itself, it's doing wonders for women's wrestling or at least many peoples' perception of it. I can think of just so many positives and any negatives I can come up with are fairly trivial; the commentary isn't amazing but Raw's is rubbish too, they go overboard with some superstars' epilepsy inducing entrances even compared to the main shows somehow, obviously not every single gimmick is a winner - Vaudevillains are alright for NXT but they would die quicker than Adam Rose out on Raw, as people have said sometimes the smark crowd spoil a few things.
But still these are pretty trivial things, I just think whether WWE incorporates elements from NXT into the main shows or just allows it to continue it's a great long-term idea which adds another layer to the WWE product

 

[MartialHorror]

I laughed at the Cesaro line as well. I understand if he thinks he's uncharismatic, but even if he's skinny, he's freakishly strong. Ryback might look buffer, but Cesaro utilizes his strength much more effectively.

 

[t2ne]

Skinny cesaro lol. He's one of the strongest men on the roster. As mentioned before me he's utilized his strength better than ryback, big e, just about anyone except big show or lesner and even big show is debatable.I agree there's things on nxt that aren't appealing but they are a decent tag team and throughout history from the rock n roll express to the rockers, hardy brothers etc there a platform for guys like them even though they're not high flyers like some of the others mentioned. There is always gonna be a smaller guy, smaller team. They're entertaining which is what it's about

 

[Seosa]

Another petty prick of a poster.

"You all like something that I don't because I love jacked up dudes with pythons and huge dicks, so I'm gonna complain with a sweeping generalisation about a couple of tag teams I don't like as a means of slagging off an entire brand."

Did you really feel the need to post this thread?

 

[Metal4Brains]

I think a lot of the problem here is that people forget that NXT is still a developmental program and they watch it like it's supposed to be a finished product with polished talent and well thought out gimmicks.

 

[@smarkmouth]

I don't want to spend too much time dissecting this, because it's your subjective opinion, and that's fine as long as you're not confusing it with objective fact...

But the Vaudvillains is purposely mispronounced, because it's a pun. Maybe not a good one, but a pun, none the less.

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

Yes, I said it. NXT is not the perfect, never-fail federation that the WWE could learn a thing or two from.

I know most here like to use this equation:-

NXT= Everything good about wrestling
WWE = Nothing good about wrestling.

Everything NXT does is right,and they shit gold, according to all of you. Every superstar from it is considered superior to Cena, Orton etc, and the WWE guard should do the job for the NXT guys and girls EVERY SINGLE TIME!

However, I watched NXT the other day, and saw a tag-team which will never make it onto the main roster. They are a joke. They are called the "Vaudevillians".

Firstly, the commentators kept calling them the "VAUDE-VILLIANS" when it should be pronounced "VAUDER-VILL-E-ANS" as in vaudeville.

Secondly, have you seen their arms? Never have I seen two more anorexic, skinny superstars in my life. They need to fail the Wellness policy. They need help jacking up. It is impossible to believe that Simon Gotch, with his ridiculous mustache, could break a twig, let alone applying a hold of any force on even skinny Daniel Bryan, let alone a jacked-up John Cena. And yet people bag the Ascension for dressing like the Road Warriors, when at least Viktor and Konnor look like that they could injure people. I suspect most Divas, and possibly even Hornswoggle and El Torito could whip the Vaudevillians' skinny asses.

Get rid of the terrible gimmick (and yet WWE sacked Kizarny for doing the same gimmick), hit the weights, (and the steroids) and at least look like a WWE superstar, rather than two kids playing wrestling in the backyard.

So, what do you think of the Vaudevillians? Can't wait to hear the spin about how they are better than the Usos, the Ascension, Los Matadores, New Day, and other teams (except for, of course, Kidd and Cesaro, since most of you get stiffies for the skinny, uncharismatic Cesaro, just because he came from NXT).

Never watched NXT but i looked up a pic of the guys you mentioned and meh their average.

Here some advice for you though mate. Normally i read your posts and theyre very insightful but lately it seems your burned out with the IWC thing. Your sweeping generalisations are going to put a lot of people of what you want to say. Now i understand this is a forum and you have just as much right to express your opinions as everyone else. The thing is though your asking for people opinions on matters and then jumping the gun and assuming everybody here loves NXT and hates WWE. Your becoming the IWC hipster to the IWC hipster my friend.

 

[MC_Live]

It's pretty clear that your mind is made up on the topic, so why even bring it to a discussion I have no idea. The very flaws in your own argument have already been pointed out by others. It's laughable that you call Cesaro skinny, when the man is clearly around 230lbs or so of pure muscle (and I bet you're a perfect specimen at 6'5 260 lbs of muscle yourself). And no, it's not Vaudevillians, It's Vaudevillains, because switching the a and the i make it a play on words. Because when the team debuted, they were infanct, villains (or heels, in case you're so smart marky that you forgot what the actual words are.)

Which brings me to my next point. The team debuted as bad guys, but were so entertaining, that the NXT Fans at Full Sail started cheering them. In wrestling, you need to perform your show for the audience who is watching. Does the Vaudevillains gimmick work in NXT? You bet your ass it does. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean nobody else will. Will the gimmick work on the main roster? We won't know until we try it and found out. But until then, no need to fix what isn't broken.

Also, and this is just a general point, but size doesn't matter in a fight. There are a countless number of examples out there of smaller guys beating bigger guys (See Gracie, Royce). It doesn't matter how big or small you are, what matters is if you know how to fight. Automatically assuming a big guy is gonna beat a small guy just cause he's big is ignorant and stupid. Now, in wrestling, it just has to be logical. Sure, if Daniel Bryan powerbombed Brock Lesnar, that's probably gonna come off as unrealistic. But if Daniel Bryan kicks Brock in the face, I know Brock is a bad ass, but I bet that's still gonna hurt. Also, don't judge a book by its cover. There are a lot of small looking guys who are deceptively strong. You want to see how effective Aiden English and Simon Gotch are at applying a hold, go ask them to put you in something and see if you can get out.

You wanna bring up a point, bring up a point. But just rambling off like a bitter jackass usually invalidates your entire argument. And on top of that, do your homework. Cause if you're talking about something, and assume you know everything about it instead of actually knowing the information and history behind the subject, you come off as and ignorant moron, and again invalidate your own argument.

 

[Vanilla Midget]

Vince, is that you?

Everything you're pointing about has long since been disproven on these forums and others. You don't need to have the stereotypical look to succeed in wrestling. Mankind, X-pac, Dusty Rhodes, Daniel Bryan, Eddie Guerrero, and Kevin Owens. All dudes that didn't have the look, all current or future legends.

Not saying The Vaudevillians are going to go far, I'm not saying the won't either. They're gimmick is superior to The Ascension and Los Matadores, though Epico and Primo are the superior wrestlers.

They're a developmental team. Give them time to develop.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

As is the case with just about every thread begun by the OP, most of his posts in any thread for that matter, he essentially likes to separate wrestling fans into two categories:

1. The IWC - Every internet fan who's opinion seems to differ from his, which results in him snorting with derision at them.

2. Himself - He separates himself from the rest of the herd and condemns anyone or anything that has a lot of favorable opinions from a lot of the "IWC" usually in a trollish fashion.


Here's the thing about NXT: Just because you're on the NXT roster doesn't mean you're gonna make it to the main roster. I honestly don't know how the opinion of going through NXT means a guaranteed spot on the main roster got started, but it's not at all accurate.

Also, as also seems to be par for the course, anything or anyone that gets strong, positive reviews gets stretched out and is applied to a much broader area, thereby making it more convenient to criticize. For instance, if someone's high on Sami Zayn or Kevin Owens, then the OP will basically take that opinion and exaggerate it to where said OP tries to say that this someone is saying that NXT is perfect and can do no wrong.

As far as the OP's opinion of wrestlers physiques go, he's more than welcome to it. Me personally, I don't necessarily have to have some 6'3" 250 pound+ slab of muscle on my television for me to be interested in him. I've seen a ton of guys with great physiques come and go in pro wrestling and, unfortunately for them, having a great physique will only take you so far; this isn't bodybuilding and if someone's best feature is a bodybuilder/Herculean physique, then I can't say I'm interested. If someone has a chiseled look, good for them, but they'd better have a lot more to bring to the table than that; if they're unable to make me care about them as a persona, if they're dull to watch inside the ring, if they have no personality, then I don't care about them.

One thing that I've always found a little laugh worthy is how some fans keep trying to apply real world consequences regarding actual fights to a fictional sport involving fictional personas involved with fictional feuds that culminate in fictional fights. Is it "believable" Simon Gotch could beat John Cena in a fight? I don't know, because I've never seen either of them in a real fight nor do I have any knowledge of their background as far as self-defense and/or martial arts training. However, the OP seems to be operating under the assumption that a "little guy" can't beat up a "big guy" in a fight. Not that it actually matters since it's professional wrestling where anyone can beat anyone, depending on the booking, here's a nice little hole poked in that logic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKpR3wHsQVg

This is from the Pride Fighting Championship event Pride Bushido 4 in 2004 and features then 34 year Takashi Sugiura vs. then 40 year old Giant Silva. Silva as known as a member of the Oddities stable in 1998 through 1999, though spent much wrestling and MMA career in Japan. Sugiura began wrestling in 2000 and has been a big star in Pro Wrestling Noah. Silva's billed in the intro of the video at 7'0" and 524 pounds, but I don't think he's quite that heavy, though he's certainly at least 7'0". At the time of his retirement from wrestling back in 2010, his billed height was 7'2" and 385 pounds. Sugiura is listed at 5'8" and 209 pounds, though he's billed at 5'10" and 229 pounds by Noah. At any rate, Silva is at least a good 14 to 15 inches taller and, conservatively, 120 pounds heavier and he gets decimated by the much smaller man.

So, using the same logic of the OP in that size is THE determining factor in who wins a fight, fictional or otherwise, if Takashi Sugiura could whip a man nearly 1.5 feet taller and well over 100 pounds heavier, Simon Gotch could handle Cena, who's just a few inches taller and maybe 30 pounds or so heavier.

As far as comments about Cesaro being "skinny", it depends on how you look at it. Cesaro is someone whom genetics endowed with a long, lanky sort of build and, as a result, has one of the more natural looking physiques of any big guy in pro wrestling. Cesaro's legitimately about 6'5" and he's billed at 232 pounds which is probably pretty close to his actual weight, I put him at between 240 and 245 pounds at the very most though he could quite possibly pass for someone 220 pounds, maybe even a little less. On the opposite end of the spectrum is Neville, who's about 5'8 or 5'9" and is billed at about 195 pounds, though I think he could be as heavy as 210 pounds, but he has a short, stockier, thicker build and could quite easily pass for someone maybe 230 pounds. Because of the way his skeletal structure is, if Cesaro slapped on another 40 pounds, he still may not look nearly as heavy as he'd actually be even if he used steroids. While it's possible Cesaro has taken them in the past, it's impossible to genuinely be able to tell just by looking at someone, it's unlikely given that his muscles have sleeker, more natural contours and sloping whereas many who engage in extensive steroids usually have a stockier, more rounded contours to their muscles. That's not always the case because, as I said, you can't tell who's on 'roids and who isn't just by looking at them, but it's a strong, possible indicator. Plus, it also depends on what sort of PED's someone is using as some are designed to help attain and maintain a higher level of definition while others are designed to increase muscular size and strength.

 

[TheFightFan]

There's a troll in the castle!!

Seriously though, NXT doesn't make mistakes. You do. (Obviously a joke)

Also I like their gimmick. I don't think it has broad appeal but find it amusing. To each their own I guess.

 

[OYDK]

Yes, I said it. NXT is not the perfect, never-fail federation that the WWE could learn a thing or two from.

Oh shit. No you di'nt!

I know most here like to use this equation:-

NXT= Everything good about wrestling
WWE = Nothing good about wrestling.

I know you like to use this equation:-

y=mx+b=c

Everything NXT does is right,and they shit gold, according to all of you. Every superstar from it is considered superior to Cena, Orton etc, and the WWE guard should do the job for the NXT guys and girls EVERY SINGLE TIME!

According to who? Me? I'm sorry, have we met?

However, I watched NXT the other day, and saw a tag-team which will never make it onto the main roster. They are a joke. They are called the "Vaudevillians".

Good God. You're thread title is "something NXT does wrong" and you point out THE VAUDEVILLIANS... If that's the only thing NXT does wrong than it must be the greatest wrestling show of all time.

Firstly, the commentators kept calling them the "VAUDE-VILLIANS" when it should be pronounced "VAUDER-VILL-E-ANS" as in vaudeville.

You must be the most miserable human being in the world if you have to bitch about something as miniscule as that. I would stay away from the tele if I were you, my man.

Secondly, have you seen their arms? Never have I seen two more anorexic, skinny superstars in my life. They need to fail the Wellness policy. They need help jacking up. It is impossible to believe that Simon Gotch, with his ridiculous mustache, could break a twig, let alone applying a hold of any force on even skinny Daniel Bryan, let alone a jacked-up John Cena. And yet people bag the Ascension for dressing like the Road Warriors, when at least Viktor and Konnor look like that they could injure people. I suspect most Divas, and possibly even Hornswoggle and El Torito could whip the Vaudevillians' skinny asses.

In your life? Really? How short has that been? So far you've bitched about the announcers "mis-pronunciation" of their name, a mustache, and "skinny arms". Let's not even focus on their wrestling ability, charisma, and promo skills... you know, the integral parts of being a pro-wrestler? But nah let's talk about Gotch's mustache.

Get rid of the terrible gimmick (and yet WWE sacked Kizarny for doing the same gimmick), hit the weights, (and the steroids) and at least look like a WWE superstar, rather than two kids playing wrestling in the backyard.

This guy knows it all everyone! Give him a spot in talent relations.

So, what do you think of the Vaudevillians? Can't wait to hear the spin about how they are better than the Usos, the Ascension, Los Matadores, New Day, and other teams (except for, of course, Kidd and Cesaro, since most of you get stiffies for the skinny, uncharismatic Cesaro, just because he came from NXT).

The Vaudevillians are better than The Usos, Ascension, Los Matadores, New Day and every other team (instead of Cesaro and Kidd of course).

 

[HORRORHOLIC]

. And no, it's not Vaudevillians, It's Vaudevillains, because switching the a and the i make it a play on words.

I always thought that was great actually. I like the gimmick too!!

 

[d_henderson1810]

Vince, is that you?

Everything you're pointing about has long since been disproven on these forums and others. You don't need to have the stereotypical look to succeed in wrestling. Mankind, X-pac, Dusty Rhodes, Daniel Bryan, Eddie Guerrero, and Kevin Owens. All dudes that didn't have the look, all current or future legends.

Not saying The Vaudevillians are going to go far, I'm not saying the won't either. They're gimmick is superior to The Ascension and Los Matadores, though Epico and Primo are the superior wrestlers.

They're a developmental team. Give them time to develop.

1. Mankind- was big around the waist.
2. X-Pac- got where he was because of "friends in high places".
3. Dusty Rhodes- Body fat.
4. Daniel Bryan- got where he did off the back of snarky crowds, who threatened to boycott WM unless he won the belt. His recent injuries show how his body isn't up to wrestling.
5. Eddie Guerrero- come on, when he won the belt, he was juiced. His arms were much bigger around that time. Maybe Eddie was off the other drugs, but the ones which make your arms big....(maybe Benoit shared his stash with him).
6. Kevin Owens- A bit of a fatty as well. Also, riding high on fanboys praise due to being a product of NXT.

Funny how everyone thought the Ascension was awesome when they were in NXT, but the moment they come up to WWE, they are hated on, further proving my point.

 

[Metal4Brains]

1. Mankind- was big around the waist.
2. X-Pac- got where he was because of "friends in high places".
3. Dusty Rhodes- Body fat.
4. Daniel Bryan- got where he did off the back of snarky crowds, who threatened to boycott WM unless he won the belt. His recent injuries show how his body isn't up to wrestling.
5. Eddie Guerrero- come on, when he won the belt, he was juiced. His arms were much bigger around that time. Maybe Eddie was off the other drugs, but the ones which make your arms big....(maybe Benoit shared his stash with him).
6. Kevin Owens- A bit of a fatty as well. Also, riding high on fanboys praise due to being a product of NXT.

Funny how everyone thought the Ascension was awesome when they were in NXT, but the moment they come up to WWE, they are hated on, further proving my point.

You're proving his point by pointing out that Mankind, Dusty Rhodes, and KO all have large build. You do know that right? And KO's praise isn't because of NXT. It's because we all know his work pre-NXT and are happy to see him getting a payoff for that work. And what snarky fans are you talking about? You're the one showing snark.

The Ascension had a creative change when they were brought up. They also had their match style changed. They started cutting pointless promos about old legends and it was just odd. Elimination Chamber showed them coming back to form and I hope they get back to where they were in NXT.

What point are you making, exactly?

 

[Navi]

Funny how everyone thought the Ascension was awesome when they were in NXT, but the moment they come up to WWE, they are hated on, further proving my point.

And it's funny how you're always riding McMahon's dick, but seem to have this hatred for NXT. You know the other company that Vince McMahon own's, the one that is providing the next new crop of superstars for the company you love, and love to hate the fans of.

As for the Ascension. They were awesome in NXT, but look what happens when their gimmick gets changed. Yea it sucks right. Well guess who changed it, the guy you have nothing bad to say about, Vince Kennedy McMahon.

You seriously have to stop lumping all WWE fans and the IWC into the same boat, because you are a WWE fan and you are also a member of the IWC. So that makes you just the same as we are.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Everything NXT does is right,and they shit gold, according to all of you.

I don't think it's that extreme, yet the OP is doing the same thing as those he's criticizing by using lines like "according to all of you."

Personally, Raw is still my favorite pro wrestling show of all time, yet I can appreciate what they're doing on NXT. The format and production are so different from Raw that it's possible to appreciate both brands for completely different reasons. Plus, for a production that started up just 3 years ago, I think it's terrific how far NXT has come and am greatly encouraged for the future of WWE that Triple H seems to be the engine behind it, meaning probably that the more overall influence he gains, the better for the entire company.

You're thread title is "something NXT does wrong" and you point out THE VAUDEVILLIANS... If that's the only thing NXT does wrong than it must be the greatest wrestling show of all time.

Of course, it's possible to 'prove' most anything by using individual examples, yet the entire thrust of the OP was to illustrate an imperfection in NXT, which he's entitled to do, yet my overall impression is if the one example chosen is the worst thing about the show, they must be doing something right.

 

[laodaron]

NXT does plenty right, but it's still the minor leagues, and it's still really obvious. It's good that it's helping launch the WWE careers of some of the Indy guys, but really, the wrestling is WAY too fast paced, the storylines are nearly non-existent, and only some of the gimmicks are worth watching. The main event level of NXT is pretty great. The mid and lower card is pretty terrible.

Either way, it's great programming to have. It satisfies the smarks, I believe hopefully so they'll stop trying to ruin the main program, Raw. I'm glad it exists, I like watching it, but I also don't hold any delusions that it's better than Raw, or even better than TNA for that matter.