Some wrestlers are great, some make others look great

[BTLion1990]

We've all seen how many wrestlers have made it to the big time and they get a lot of spotlight and attention.

However, how did those wrestlers get to where they are today? By great matches and feuds.

Daniel Bryan is the classical example in todays wrestling product.

Spoiler

Sheamus despite being on a massive losing streak, not really having any relevance has just had a great match with Daniel Bryan, showcasing him yet again.

Daniel has wrestled so many and made all those who aren't in the spotlight yet look great, as well as those who are already there look legit. (Matches with Y2J, Ziggler, Sheamus, even Ted). My question is who do you think is often not noticed even though they are the work horses.

Obvious ones are Bret Hart (With Stone Cold being the best example) and Flair (MVP, Carlito, ANYONE). Who are the unnoticed?

I would say Goldust. The man has had great matches over the years, making somebody look good, such as Sheamus, HHH, Ahmed Johnson, and he's a great character.

William Regal. He's had a few pushes here and there but never got over as a main eventer. He's showcased a lot of talent, and deserved to be recognised in my opinion.

Who do you guys think?

 

[Fallen Angel 21.3]

I will have to go with one of the All time greats the newest Hall of Famer............ SHAWN MICHAEL!!!!!!!! Look at the Ladder Match at Wrestle Mania 10, The Iron Man Match with Bret Hart, his match with Kurt Angle at 21. No matter what you could be the worst wrestler and just being in the ring with Shawn you always have to try you best. Hell he made John Cena sell a little better. The only match that Shawn couldn't save was his SummerSlam match with Hulk Hogan. I mean Hell look at his match with Stone Cold and Triple H, when he got his back injuried and after 4 years without wrestling come back like he never left.

 

[itssoeasy123]

I would say John Cena.

He matches with Khali, Laslhey, Umaga, Morrison, Gabriel, and Barret may the best matches they've had.

Oh yeah, and add to the fact that I think John Cena/Dolph Ziggler was better than Daneil Bryan/Dolph Ziggler.

Seriously, you wanna make sure a guy is ready for the big time, put him in a match with Cena, then you'll have your answer.

 

[CelticCorey]

Christian. People don't really care for Christian in the ring; but he's top five for me. How can Christian have a bad match with anyone? I don't think it's possible. It could be against Ted, Kofi, Edge, Drew it doesn't matter. Whomever Christian faces, it's a good match. He's extremely entertaining in the ring and on the mic. Some question Christian's draw power but he could carry a great match. If the main event of a PPV was somebody vs Christian, I would buy it.

 

[Lucha-Libre is wrestling]

In my book one of the best wrestler that never got a inch of a push, but made his opponent look great in the ring has to be Special Delivery Jones ( WWF 1981 - 1991 ). SD Jones was the guy King Kong Bundy beat in 9 sec at MANIA 1. He wrestled as a face every Saturday on WWF Wrestling Challenge and Superstars through the 1980's. This guy was the 1st true lovable loser in the WWF.

 

[tablekorner]

Kurt Angle for sure. You put anyone in the ring with him and they automatically look good. You can throw a one year child in a match with him and then that kid is automatically looking like a wrestler : D Kurt Angle is an amazing competitor and can literately make anyone look good.

@ itssoeasy123

I also agree with you, John Cena can also make people look really good.

@ Fallen Angel 21.3

Yes Shawn Michael's is another one of the greats who can make people look excellent. Throw him in the ring and instant classic.

Overall, I think if you took these three in the same match, like at Taboo Tuesday 2005 then it would most likely be match of the year.

 

[S.J. Maximus]

Chris Jericho is the best 'workhorse' in the history of professional wrestling, he's the most durable and can put on 5-star matches with anyone on the roster.

This topic seems to be about people who are underrated in this category, so I'll oblige by giving you my pick, Kane. Kane has been in the ring with most guys on the roster and he never ceases to amaze me during those matches.

 

[The Black Death]

I would say John Cena.

He matches with Khali, Laslhey, Umaga, Morrison, Gabriel, and Barret may the best matches they've had.

Oh yeah, and add to the fact that I think John Cena/Dolph Ziggler was better than Daneil Bryan/Dolph Ziggler.

Seriously, you wanna make sure a guy is ready for the big time, put him in a match with Cena, then you'll have your answer.

First off, Cena's matches with Khali, Gabriel, Barrett, Umaga and Lashley were shit how did cena make any of them look good or make them stars? None of them are stars or have became stars yet. Second, Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler was a much better match then Ziggler vs Cena, infact Ziggler vs Bryan was named the second best match of the year behind Michaels vs Undertaker by WWE.com. Thirdly Ziggler carried the match with Cena and actually made Cena look good not the other way around.

Speaking of Ziggler, in my opinion he puts on the best matches out of anyone on the roster and makes anyone who he faces look like a legit star in the process. Another guy who I personally think is underated when it comes to putting on good matches and putting people over is Zack Ryder, seriously it's a shame we never get to see him on Raw anymore because he really can put on a show.

 

[itssoeasy123]

First off, Cena's matches with Khali, Gabriel, Barrett, Umaga and Lashley were shit how did cena make any of them look good or make them stars? None of them are stars or have became stars yet. Second, Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler was a much better match then Ziggler vs Cena, infact Ziggler vs Bryan was named the second best match of the year behind Michaels vs Undertaker by WWE.com. Thirdly Ziggler carried the match with Cena and actually made Cena look good not the other way around.

Speaking of Ziggler, in my opinion he puts on the best matches out of anyone on the roster and makes anyone who he faces look like a legit star in the process. Another guy who I personally think is underated when it comes to putting on good matches and putting people over is Zack Ryder, seriously it's a shame we never get to see him on Raw anymore because he really can put on a show.

So, a guy who's been wrestling for 6 year's, while being a in a tag team with 4other guy's acting like cheerleader's for a year, carried the top face for the last 6 year's, who's wrestled in Wrestlemania main event's and is a multi-time WWE Champion? And debuted in UPW in 2000, and was wrestling for 10 years.

What do you think, Cena is mentally-challenged or something?

The thing's some people say.

 

[The Black Death]

So, a guy who's been wrestling for 6 year's, while being a in a tag team with 4other guy's acting like cheerleader's for a year, carried the top face for the last 6 year's, who's wrestled in Wrestlemania main event's and is a multi-time WWE Champion? And debuted in UPW in 2000, and was wrestling for 10 years.

What do you think, Cena is mentally-challenged or something?

The thing's some people say.

If you actually watched the fucking match, instead of having you're head so far up Cena ass you could tell what he had for breakfest, you'd know Dolph Ziggler not only carried Cena's ass throughout the match he actually made Cena look competent(which is hard to do).

 

[itssoeasy123]

If you actually watched the fucking match, instead of having you're head so far up Cena ass you could tell what he had for breakfest, you'd know Dolph Ziggler not only carried Cena's ass throughout the match he actually made Cena look competent(which is hard to do).

Saying Ziggler carried Cena is like saying Wade Barret carried Mark Henry in Wade's first victory.

Or like saying Batista carried Kane at Armaggedeon 2002.

Cena can carry people. It's just you gotta realize he's not mentally-challenged, and he can actual wrestle!

 

[The Black Death]

Saying Ziggler carried Cena is like saying Wade Barret carried Mark Henry in Wade's first victory.

Or like saying Batista carried Kane at Armaggedeon 2002.

Cena can carry people. It's just you gotta realize he's not mentally-challenged, and he can actual wrestle!

I'm not saying John Cena's mentally challenged, I'm just saying Dolph Ziggler is the better wrestler (not the better entertainer) and carried John in that match. When it comes to talent in the ring, Cena doesn't have the ability to put on matches like Dolph does. Zigglers matches last year against Bryan, Kingston, Morrison and his matches this year against Orton, Cena and Edge prove he can steal the show with any wrestler on the roster, Cena can't do that.

 

[thedukeofpearls]

I'm not saying John Cena's mentally challenged, I'm just saying Dolph Ziggler is the better wrestler (not the better entertainer) and carried John in that match. When it comes to talent in the ring, Cena doesn't have the ability to put on matches like Dolph does. Zigglers matches last year against Bryan, Kingston, Morrison and his matches this year against Orton, Cena and Edge prove he can steal the show with any wrestler on the roster, Cena can't do that.

Ziggler's wrestling style is strinkingly similar to Curt Henning (Mr.Perfect), and although he's a fantastic wrestler, he has yet to impress me to the point that I'll claim he's a main eventer. With that being said, I personally didn't enjoy his matches with Kingston, Morrison or Orton.

Also, Cena's a great wrestler, and if anyone's to blame for his small repetoire of moves, it's WWE management.
I personally are a tad sick of Cena's dumb "clothesline, jumping clothesline and slam" routine, but Cena has held his own in the ring a few years back.

 

[The Black Death]

Ziggler's wrestling style is strinkingly similar to Curt Henning (Mr.Perfect), and although he's a fantastic wrestler, he has yet to impress me to the point that I'll claim he's a main eventer. With that being said, I personally didn't enjoy his matches with Kingston, Morrison or Orton.

Also, Cena's a great wrestler, and if anyone's to blame for his small repetoire of moves, it's WWE management.
I personally are a tad sick of Cena's dumb "clothesline, jumping clothesline and slam" routine, but Cena has held his own in the ring a few years back.

Fair enough, Cena's had a few good to great matches in the past but the point I was trying to make is in those matches he was usually being caried by a veteran someone like HBK or Triple H or a Kurt Angle , where as Ziggler at this point in his career doesn't need someone to lead him along and in my opinion makes him the better wrestler.

If you look at Ziggler's matches, most of them are against young wrestlers on the Smackdown brand and doesn't have the advantage of playing off a veteran like Cena did early in his career. Sure he faced Rey Mysterio a couple times and faced Batista in his first match but that doesn't compare to facing HBK, Triple H or Kurt Angle early in your career.

 

[harrythem]

I'm not going to name individual wrestlers because there are too many (and I don't know most of their names to be honest) but a lot of the jobbers used in WWE and WCW in the late 80s/early 90s were great wrestlers. It was their job to get the crap beaten out of them and then do the job. It was thanks to guys like that Sid was seen as a sure fire main eventer, it helped get the Warrior over while covering the guys weaknesses.

Surely the bottom guys deserve the love!

 

[BTLion1990]

I'm not going to name individual wrestlers because there are too many (and I don't know most of their names to be honest) but a lot of the jobbers used in WWE and WCW in the late 80s/early 90s were great wrestlers. It was their job to get the crap beaten out of them and then do the job. It was thanks to guys like that Sid was seen as a sure fire main eventer, it helped get the Warrior over while covering the guys weaknesses.

Surely the bottom guys deserve the love!

Hmmm, I mean most jobbers do the point of making a guy look like a monster most of the times, but don't actually do anything for them. For example, nobody walked away thinking, WOW I didn't know Sid was an awesome wrestler, by looking at his match with Brooklyn Brawler.

The jobbers are essential do not get me wrong, but as you've seen with the argument of Cena/Ziggler looking good in their match, many people can argue one way or the other, therefore BOTH have fulfilled their purpose and people remember these guys for looking awesome in their matches.

I also agree with the dude who said Christian, solid in ring worker, good exposure and a legit mid card wrestler. Val Venis also could fit into this category, especially in the attitude era, I still remember him facing The Rock and thinking the dude can hang with the best of them, just wouldn't be a main eventer.

 

[Jason Scene]

So, a guy who's been wrestling for 6 year's, while being a in a tag team with 4other guy's acting like cheerleader's for a year, carried the top face for the last 6 year's, who's wrestled in Wrestlemania main event's and is a multi-time WWE Champion? And debuted in UPW in 2000, and was wrestling for 10 years.

What do you think, Cena is mentally-challenged or something?

The thing's some people say.

Although I don't agree, that all means nothing.

Nick Nemeth is hands down the better wrestler than John Cena. Let me remind you that one of John's biggest criticizms is that he isn't a good wrestler, and he isn't. He's sloppy, doesn't have much of a move-set and can be described sometimes as over-selling.

He also gets pushed, which means nothing against Dolph.

Dave Meltzer commented on Nemeth about three months ago, and hit the nail on the head. Dolph Ziggler is one of the only WWE wrestlers to have not a bad PPV match through 2009 or 2010. The guy is a workhouse, he does everything very well and is compared by some to a hyrbid of Mr. Perfect and Rick Rude.

The length of which you've been at something means nothing, hence why someone can never say that Hulk Hogan is a better wrestler that Hart because Hulk was always getting pushed up peoples assholes, and had a bit more experience. Everyone with half a bit of common sense knows Bret was a better wrestler that Hogan.

Back on topic...

Bryan Danielson can make anybody look good. Sheamus is a good wrestler for a big man, but last night Danielson made Sheamus look so good. Bryan is still boring though? Yeah, if you were ******ed and had no eyes.

He is another Jericho, but is better than Chris at making people look good. Christian is another, he was in-truth, virtually paid for the better part of 2010 to make people look good on Smackdown, and hes done a great job. McIntyre, Ziggler, Del Rio have all benefited from working with Christian.

Kurt Angle is another, awesome wrestler, and could truly make even the worst look good. Showings of this can be, John Cena's debut! Nobody knew who he was, and nobody cared, yet oddly enough John's best technical wrestling match is his debut!! Kurt won, but put John over.

There are countless others, you could list off so many more. But they're a couple.

 

[harrythem]

Hmmm, I mean most jobbers do the point of making a guy look like a monster most of the times, but don't actually do anything for them. For example, nobody walked away thinking, WOW I didn't know Sid was an awesome wrestler, by looking at his match with Brooklyn Brawler.

The jobbers are essential do not get me wrong, but as you've seen with the argument of Cena/Ziggler looking good in their match, many people can argue one way or the other, therefore BOTH have fulfilled their purpose and people remember these guys for looking awesome in their matches.

I also agree with the dude who said Christian, solid in ring worker, good exposure and a legit mid card wrestler. Val Venis also could fit into this category, especially in the attitude era, I still remember him facing The Rock and thinking the dude can hang with the best of them, just wouldn't be a main eventer.

I get what you mean but, from what I was saying, there was a core group of jobbers (such as Barry Harowitz) that were so good at getting across what the company wanted the wrestler beating them to look like that, they became part of the regular crew. They never moved upwards, and were lucky to get a move in but, from the selling point of view (something Cena is dreadful at in general) they were among the best the business has ever seen.

A specific case I still remember is, back in the 80s, before the Hart Foundation, Bret Hart was just a jobber type. He had a series of matches against Tom "Megaman" Magee that Bret carried so well, Vince was convinced that Magee was going to be a Hogan level star. Of course, when he was moved up to more competitive matches, Magee was complete shite and was gone within 6 months.

Now, I know Bret went on to much better things but, that's a perfect example of a jobber doing the best job a guy can with nothing.

 

[thedukeofpearls]

I get what you mean but, from what I was saying, there was a core group of jobbers (such as Barry Harowitz) that were so good at getting across what the company wanted the wrestler beating them to look like that, they became part of the regular crew. They never moved upwards, and were lucky to get a move in but, from the selling point of view (something Cena is dreadful at in general) they were among the best the business has ever seen.

A specific case I still remember is, back in the 80s, before the Hart Foundation, Bret Hart was just a jobber type. He had a series of matches against Tom "Megaman" Magee that Bret carried so well, Vince was convinced that Magee was going to be a Hogan level star. Of course, when he was moved up to more competitive matches, Magee was complete shite and was gone within 6 months.

Now, I know Bret went on to much better things but, that's a perfect example of a jobber doing the best job a guy can with nothing.

Bret was one of the best at making anyone look good.
Although to be honest, I'd personally say that anyone in a match against Bill Goldberg pretty much makes the list.
Nothing compensates for the time and money WCW or WWE wasted on Goldberg. Even Mark Henry no-selling for Berg made Berg look like a complete powerhouse.

 

[LFC till i die]

I would also have to say Ziggler. He Works his arse off and he just improves every time he is in the ring and you can see the amount of effort he puts into his matches because all of his matches are of a high standard regardless of who he's facing. A shit wrestler like Cena or a great talent like Daniel Bryan. His matches are awesome to watch. Its probably because Dolph really is damn gud.

I also have to mention Cody Rhodes as he also dosent get a lot of credit for his in ring work. The same with Ziggler, Rhodes improves everytime he is in the ring.

IMO Dolph shud of been Superstar of the year. Not Cena.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I would say Goldust. The man has had great matches over the years, making somebody look good, such as Sheamus, HHH, Ahmed Johnson, and he's a great character.

Good call on Goldust. Whatever one thinks of his character, the man knows how to work a match and he often carries his opponent through a contest that features some of the smoothest exchanges of holds you'd ever want to see.

It's the guys who know how to work that have the capability of making their opponents look good. William Regal comes to mind. So does Chris Jericho, who has coaxed some of the best matches ever out of opponents who couldn't work as well as him.

Just a word about my favorite wrestler: Drew McIntyre (Yeah, he's my favorite because he's great looking.....you got a problem with that?) He was widely criticized at the start of his WWE tenure for not making his opponents look good. Well, that's changed as he's come along. Now, he does some of the best selling for his foe's moves I've ever seen. I think it may have been inexperience that led him to concentrate on his own moves and not sell for the other guy. His improvement is remarkable. Go, Drew.