So What Went Wrong With WWE's Youth Movement?

[CM Steel]

A few short years ago that wizard Vince McMahon came up with a way to kick the WWE "PG Era" off in a familar way. The youth in his promotion like in the attitude era. Young up and coming stars like The Miz, Dolph Ziggler, Jack Swagger, John Morrison, and the second and third generation superstars. The WWE youth movement had so much affect that Vince McMahon had to personally retire (Fit) Finlay from in-ring competition. But gave Jerry "The King" Lawler two shots at the Miz's WWE championship not to long ago.

So far stars like the Miz, Dolph Ziggler, and Jack Swagger has touched WWE world championship gold. But after awhile in the WWE legends like Kevin Nash, Booker T, and Mick Foley returned to the WWE from TNA for another run in the WWE somewhat overshadowing the youth movement. So was the WWE youth movement just a faze that chairmen Vince McMahon was going through?

What went wrong with the WWE youth movement?

 

[Nate DaMac]

You're fucking joking right? All of those guys you just listed but JoMo and Swagger are in the main event of a PPV this weekend. Swagger had his shot, he sucked, yet he's still the current United Sates Champion. Meanwhile, we have Cody Rhodes, Wade Barrett, Sheamus, and Daniel Bryan all at the forefront of every television broadcast.

Sure, Foley had a couple of spots, Nash had a feud with Triple H, etc. You can't just up and abandon your veterans, you want the casual fan to stick around. But to suggest that they have stopped pushing the younger talent is completely ******ed.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The "movement" is fine... but not all of them can be in the main event, or at the same time.

Look back to the WWE/F's most successful periods and you will see a good mix of veteran and young talent. Andre, DiBiase, Hogan had all been going for 10 years plus by WM5 but new guys like Shawn Michaels, Big Bossman and Owen Hart and Jacques Rougeau, all less than 3 years into their careers. By WM7 you had guys like The Undertaker, Earthquake and Crush, all still in the first 5 years of their careers...

These guys were not main eventing, but had prominent parts on the card and in storylines, indeed Earthquake had already headlined a Summerslam and Taker was champion by the end of the year albiet for one night.

Youth for Youths sake is not what WWE are going for, they need sustainable talent with time to get properly over for the long term. They got burned with guys like Lashley and Lesnar... but remember not all will be long term champs... or even get one reign... Jake never did, Piper never did, DiBiase never did... it's not a right...

 

[thebarber]

jesus another sad thread. Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes, Tyson Kidd, Jack Swagger, Brodus Clay, Kofi Kingston, The Miz.........pretty sure those guys are all getting solid pushes in some way.
Foley was brought in for a couple of shows to assist buy rates for the Rumble. Booker T put over Rhodes. Nash has gone into hibernation.
The youth movement is going well, Orton and Cena have guys to feud with. Del Rios and Punk are noty exactly old either.

 

[ThaSandman]

This thread should be closed and here is why, but for the sake of answering your question, here you go:

So you say the youth movement has failed because younger talents like Swagger, Morrison, Ziggler and The Miz really haven't made enough of an impact. The youth movement is alive and well. You need to remember that only one person on each brand can be their champion and you can't call someone a failure because they haven't won a championship multiple times like stars of the past. The youth movement over the last 2 plus years has done great things. I'm going to give you a list of names that are carrying or are making a main contribution to weekly programming/storylines. First is the list of names that are mainstays that are over the age of 35

Rey Mysterio, Triple H, Mark Henry, Chris Jericho, Kane, Undertaker, R-Truth, Big Show

Those names are a few of the bigger names over the last few years. I know obviously that Taker, HHH and Jericho are part time names for the most part especially lately. Big Show and Kane have helped to carry shows as Champion or main event calibur to help build new stars or carry angles to keep the casual fan interested. R-Truth and Mark Henry have really re-invented their personas and careers in the process giving themselves a new look and a fresh face each week to legitimize their pushes. Every product needs some name recogniition and face value to it to bring back the casual fan or older fan base. Now let me list the names of all the talents under the age of 35 who have been a big part of the WWE product as of the past few years mainly upper mid-card talent or former Champions/Main Eventers

Randy Orton, John Cena, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, Wade Barrett, Cody Rhodes, Zack Ryder, Kofi Kingston, Alberto Del Rio, The Miz, Dolph Ziggler, Primo/Epico, Jack Swagger.

All of those names are either current or former champions over the last few years. Some of those names are true min eventers, some are just mid card talent. These are the names really that have carried the product over the last year or two. Some have developed more than others, but this is really the core of the roster and all of them are under 35. For Orton and Cena's case they are veterans and the cornerstones of the company and have already carried the product or built a name to do that over the last few years. Guys like Sheamus, Miz, Punk and Del Rio have started to do that over the last 2 years or so. The point is that they have a lot of young talent to work with and have already established a good amount of them. You can't always create a mega star like an Austin/Rock but to say that the youth movement has faild is a huge mistake I feel. You will always have stars with a history come and go it's part of the business, but to say Vince has failed at the youth movement is just plain dumb and not true of what has happened over the last 2 years at least.

 

[ThaSandman]

One more thing: Foley/Nash/Booker were brought back for 2 reasons I feel. 1. to ruin the big TNA angle of the Main Event Mafia reforming on TNA tv. 2. These were talents that have a solid work relationship with the current roster/creative and Vince himself. I don't see how Booker T being a Smackdown announcer, Nash running a 3 month or so angle with HHH and Foley showing up randomly on TV for a segement here and there has ever overshadowed anything? If anything it has helped, none of these guys took valuable TV time from the current stars. In fact, Booker and Nash helped progress storylines or push stars like Rhodes and CM Punk so I think that claim is way off base. Royal Rumble appearances and commentating jobs don't really take away from the talent on TV every week.

 

[Azane]

The movement is happening, the youth are becoming stars.

It isn't an instant transition, all of the people crying for youth movements over the last few years on these forums are now crying that they're pushing too many youths.

You're insane if you don't notice that the WWE roster is full of new or young talent, there's hardly any mainstays from 5 years+ ago.

Booker T is an announcer, he's not overshadowing anyone.
Foley showed up for a couple spots, that's overshadowing? really? Really? REALLY?
Nash vs Triple H in the midcard, this overshadowed what exactly? I don't think many people really cared about this match even.

These overshadow Dolph running rampant on 4*+ free tv matches for the last 6 months?
These overshadow Cody eliminating a dinner table worth of Hall of Famers while being IC Champion for ever?
These overshadow Sheamus winning the Royal Rumble?
Miz has lost a little steam, but he was MEing Wrestlemania last year, you don't go much higher than that.
Jack Swagger is the All American American American Champion.
John Morrison had his own demons that have pushed him from the company, not the movement's fault.
Tyson Kidd, DH Smith, Usos, they're pretty much screwed by the Tag Division sucking, oh, and the product requiring more personality that they have.


You're not watching the show very closely me thinks.

 

[Nick Black]

I feel like everyone is making good points here.

Sure some of the youth aren't in the main event, or even in the mid-card for that matter. A-Ri, Hawkins, Slater, Curtis, JTG, Ryan, McGillicutty, Tatsu, Barreta, and Reks aren't being used often, but 1) they reside on Superstars, and 2) You CANNOT fit all of those names in one or even 4 of the flagship shows, let alone any PPVs.

The WWE is utilizing the youth movement, but the ones that aren't being utilized are the ones that they can either save, or aren't good enough for the midcard/uppermid/ME. A-Ri was there, Hawkins used to mid-card, as did Reks, JTG, Ryan and Curtis. But you really can't fit everyone up at the top. There needs to be bottom workers/jobbers for everyone.

 

[OneTooManyPunts]

Sorry OP, but the 'youth movement' is still very much alive and well. Look at this weekend...you've got Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler, Miz, CM Punk, Kofi Kingston, Daniel Bryan...all in two respective main event matches.

Just because you get a one off from Mick Foley or Booker T doesn't mean that the younger superstars are no longer viable. It means WWE is trying to appeal to fans of the current product, while also trying to appease fans of yesteryear.

The biggest problem is the the sheer number of young stars in WWE right now. When you look at the above mentioned names, along with Alex Riley, Curt Hawkins, Zack Ryder, Tyler Rexx, ....etc etc...the hardest part for any young talent is just separating from the pack.

 

[Khalifa]

Um have you been watching WWE lately or ever? Dolph Ziggler just had 3 matches involving WWE champion CM Punk last month and also had a title run (I'm counting it for this arguement ) He is also in this months PPV main event! The Miz held the title last year and beat Cena at WRESTLEMANIA! John Morrison was getting a major push before he took some time off last year and Jack Swagger isn't even main event material yet he held the world title a few years back. Daniel Bryan is quickly becoming the biggest heel on Smackdown and while i'm on the subject, HE IS FREAKING WORLD CHAMP!

Cody Rhodes and Wade Barret are being built perfectly. They don't need the world title at the moment, especially with how crowded the main event scene is anyway. Everyone and their dog knows Cody Rhodes will be a world champ in the coming years and everybody is riding the Wade train as well.

What young superstar hasn't recieved a push that actually look main event material. Look at the history. Cena, Orton, Batista (to be fair he wasn't young but was definately fresh in the WWE), Punk and you could even say Jeff Hardy to an extent. You could even debate guys like Shelton Benjamin and MVP were used good and clearly weren't ready for a world title but would of eventually made that step.

Please explain one person that was deserving of a push that is young.

 

[theBec2101]

Simple. If your on Raw, roster is to deep with super stars. If your on Smack Down, well no one watches. its just hard to get buried under everyone else and forgotten. Not saying there isnt young talent moving up, I think its just harder.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Um have you been watching WWE lately or ever? Dolph Ziggler just had 3 matches involving WWE champion CM Punk last month and also had a title run (I'm counting it for this arguement ) He is also in this months PPV main event! The Miz held the title last year and beat Cena at WRESTLEMANIA! John Morrison was getting a major push before he took some time off last year and Jack Swagger isn't even main event material yet he held the world title a few years back. Daniel Bryan is quickly becoming the biggest heel on Smackdown and while i'm on the subject, HE IS FREAKING WORLD CHAMP!

Cody Rhodes and Wade Barret are being built perfectly. They don't need the world title at the moment, especially with how crowded the main event scene is anyway. Everyone and their dog knows Cody Rhodes will be a world champ in the coming years and everybody is riding the Wade train as well.

What young superstar hasn't recieved a push that actually look main event material. Look at the history. Cena, Orton, Batista (to be fair he wasn't young but was definately fresh in the WWE), Punk and you could even say Jeff Hardy to an extent. You could even debate guys like Shelton Benjamin and MVP were used good and clearly weren't ready for a world title but would of eventually made that step.

Please explain one person that was deserving of a push that is young.

Here is the thing... they are NOT guaranteed a world title... that has been the problem with the new stars getting over. They have come into a climate where there seems to be a definite ladder to climb...

Initial Push/Debut - Lower level title - Beat Legend - Be in Elimination Chamber - Win MITB - Cash In - Rinse - Repeat

That is the problem 2 belts has created... if anyone doesn't make the latter steps within 3 years they are judged a failiure. Think back to the Hogan era, did Big Bossman ever get a title, even an IC one... NO cos he had a gimmick that meant he didn't need one, a policeman with a title wouldn't work... Same for Brutus or Jake, he had a big snake in a bag, Piper didn't need a title but these were still main eventers.

Wrestlers and fans today equate titles to success and as a right, it isn't... I'd rather Cody Rhodes main events for 10 years and is their MVP than him ever winning a title... Wade Barrett likewise (much as I want an Englishman to get the title the Bulldog deserved). Guys like Shelton and JoMo would be like Rick Martel or Tatanka winning the WWF title back in the day. They could main event when needed, but they weren't needed...

 

[Arsenal]

What's wrong is they haven't created any mega-stars since Austin and The Rock. They're missing the top of the card superstars (Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Austin, Rock) that make the product extremely popular with even non-wrestling fans. Right now they're in a down period much like the Bret Hart / Shawn Michaels / Diesel era of the mid-90's where there was no mega-star to make the product appeal to casual fans, hence the low ratings and PPV buyrates. Many of the guys in the youth movement have a lot of potential, but no one has broken out into superstardom yet. Hopefully it's only a matter of time.

 

[mlp420]

I love how some people who say the WWE's youth movement is working site positions on cards or titles guys have won as proof of this. NEWSFLASH: Nobody wins belts in wrestling. These guys are given belts. Vince can give anybody he pleases any belt he pleases. He can put anybody in any match on any card he pleases. Doesn't mean they're succeeding.

That's not to say it has failed, it is still in progress. So we'll have to wait a little longer to know the true result.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I share in the confusion already expressed by several other posters. I fail to see how the "youth movement" has gone wrong at all. Maybe the OP wasn't thinking clearly at 3:01 am, was sleep posting, brain didn't have enough caffeine or something because I'm just not seeing any sort of failure at all.

Is it because every young guy in the WWE isn't a big star? It's completely unrealistic to expect everyone on the roster to be so. Not every talent can be a big star and/or pushed all at the same time. Some guys have to be used as fodder to elevate others. That's how it is in wrestling, that's how it's always been in wrestling.

CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, Cody Rhodes, The Miz, Dolph Ziggler, Zack Ryder, Kofi Kingston and a few others are the top young guns on the WWE roster. These wrestlers, with the exception of Kofi, have been at the center of the WWE's top storylines for months. A few years ago, most of them barely registered as a blip on the radar or were constantly the subject of internet rumors wondering when they'd be future endeavored. Sure, there've been some young guys who have been pushed that haven't worked out. You think that's uncommon? Not every talent has what it takes to be in the upper levels of the roster. It's just a cold, hard fact of life. Right now, the two World Champions in the WWE are two wrestlers are are viewed as two of the ultimate "internet darlings". CM Punk & Daniel Bryan are two guys that a lot of fans never thought would make it as far as they have in the WWE and even fewer thought that they'd do a great job once they got there.

As for the appearances of a few veterans, I fail to see any problem. Foley appears once in a blue moon, he had a brief appearance in the Royal Rumble match. Triple H & Kevin Nash had a feud late last year. It didn't drag on, it wasn't made the center of attention, it didn't eat up television time. It popped up, it did its thing and it went away. As for Taker & Triple H, again, I see no problem. The Streak is a big draw at WrestleMania, fans are already interested in seeing them face each other again, they're also not eating up tons of time each week on Raw. Just tossing veterans aside as if they're no longer relevant isn't good business. The WWE is currently making great use of veterans. As I said, they're not eating up television time, they're not using the young talent to keep putting over the older veterans and I've got no problem seeing them do their thing if they've still got what it takes. The point is, however, the older veterans like Taker, Foley & Triple H are no longer the focal point of Raw & SmackDown! each week.

So the "youth movement" seems to be rolling along just fine and dandy.

 

[IHW]

You can't solely focus on a "Youth Movement." You have to have a fair medium between established stars and up and coming stars. The youth movement is still in effect. Bringing back some older guys from past eras changes nothing.

 

[akathelaw]

It's the damn writers. They still write a tongue-in-cheek, hokey program for Raw and Smackdown each week, and they pat themselves on the back for it. Nobody is getting over properly except for CM Punk, who flipped the script live and they had to rewrite his character to be... himself. Daniel Bryan is taking a flat WWE superheel storyline and spinning it into gold with enthusiasm and natural heel charisma. This is the reason Bryan and Punk are at the top of the food chain in WWE, they have both perfected a character on their own working in front of smaller crowds that comes from within, based on the individual.

Some of the talent will never have this ability. I don't think Heath Slater, McGillicutty, Reks or Hawkins will ever become actually over with the crowd, as a face or a heel. These guys come off detached, hokey, and unconvincing as tough world class wrestlers, they're just goofy jocks bumping around for our amusement, occasionally making us laugh with bad acting. WWE has been cooling off on the mass firings lately. I think the 4 I just named wouldn't be a bad idea. Clear up some room for Darren Young and friends to finally come out of NXT purgatory.

 

[Headman]

In the early 2000's the majority if not all main eventers were in their late 30's and early 40's. Right now the average main eventer is in his early 30's. It seems to me that they already have a young enough main event scene. I think some people may think because guys like Cena and Randy Orton have been around a while it must mean they're old. They're not. If the complaint is that they'd rather see unseasoned rookies or midcarders who've been around a while and have failed to get themselves over, then no I don't think they've cut down on pushing those guys either.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

I think the OP is exhibiting rather unrealistic views on the youth movement.

Would a 12 man elimination chamber match satisfy you? Or how about the main event of Wrestlemania be a battle royal full of young talent for the WWE championship?

Initial rant aside, I fail to see any failure within the "Youth Movement", just look at what has occured in the past year. Look at the Wrestlemania 26 main events: Chris Jericho Vs Edge and John Cena vs Batista. Compare it to the Wrestlemania 27 main events: The Miz vs John Cena and Alberto Del Rio vs Edge. The first contains 4 stars that had been established for years prior to the event, the latter has young talent vs veterans to put it in simpler terms. Daniel Bryan is the god damn World Champion right now, CM Punk (albeit having somewhat of an established star stats before) is the WWE Champion.

Now in your main point you stated that "they are being overshadowed by returning legends". Take this into account, a majority of these comebacks have been used to further cement these guys in the upper card as well as get them more over. I don't even see legend returns happening at an abundant or frequent pace either, Foley, Nash, and Booker are the only ones I can think of recently. Even they aren't currently involved in a major storyline at all. I am pretty sure that Daniel Bryan isn't being overshadowed by Booker T while he is calling the matches, nor is any other young talent.

The youth movement maybe a faze but then again so was any "era" in WWE/F history. As far as I am concerned the youth movement hasn't taken a turn for the worse in the lest bit yet.

 

[Batteryguy]

The thing is,some Main Eventers were better as they got older.While the younger versions of the same may not have been as good,but were maybe slightly more over in their younger days and vice versa. I mean look at Trips.He could kick the crap outta the 30 year old version of himself IMHO.

 

[mrfantastic111]

Well I'm not going to say anything about the younger talents already taking over the main event scene and getting big pushes, because I think that by now all of that has already been pointed out and established by pretty much everyone who has posted so far in this thread.

The reason why the veterans are there is to give the greener guys the rub. Booker put over Cody, Nash attempted to put over Punk until HHH decided to insert himself for whatever reason that was, Foley came back to do the occasional promo with some of the newer talents, etc. Let me put it this way - a guy like Orton wouldn't be in the position he's in now if veterans like Foley and Undertaker didn't put him over. The wrestling business is a place where the passing of the torch is a custom that must take place between generations. Why do you think TNA invests so much money in hiring older wrestlers? I mean, it's very arguable to whether TNA's legends programming is actually working, but in WWE it does more times then less.

As Ric Flair once said, "To be the man, you've gotta' beat the man!"

 

[Keyote]

A few things, and diehard fans of the current product will probably disagree with the analysis, but oh well.

1) The story lines became a joke. Period. The story lines have been a joke for a while. For all people complained of the attitude era, other than a few select people, it's better than most of what we get on TV now; and because not everyone else is built up around the same philosophy, those few only remind us of how stale the product has gotten and is continuing to get.

2) Some people still aren't allowed to show their potential. You can say DH Smith is gone because he has no talent, you can say Tyson Kidd isn't used because he isn't good enough, look up their matches from other organizations of something as simple as youtube, I think you'll be pretty surprised by what they can do. So why aren't/weren't they doing it? Well, because none of the top guys want to look bad or have the "old legends" outdone just yet. So, you hold any talent you have back, you end up holding your whole product back.

3) It isn't about wrestling. It isn't. Hasn't been for a while. It's about people on the mic and story lines, wrestling takes a back seat to all of that. It used to be about 50/50, the story lines fed the matches, gave them purpose. Now we get 4 matches, maybe 5 in a 2 hour show and some of those are only 5 minutes, the rest is just talking and eating up time.

4) The youth movement is pushed too quickly. Alberto Del Rio is a perfect example. No real in ring build up, he just sort of showed up and was forced down our throats. Some people will disagree, but it's the same way with Daniel Bryan's character. You used to have a slow and steady build up, and that's what made a star into a superstar. That's what made Stone Cold Steve Austin, Bret Hart, Triple H, Shawn Michaels. Each had a different story, but we saw them, then saw them change, saw them molded between interviews and matches, and the interviews weren't just the same catchphrases every night, day in and day out, or the same ideas. On occasion, as fans, we were still caught off guard; some will blame the internet itself for that, but even in the absence of that, the build ups and "Story telling" (or lack thereof), make the outcomes of everything pretty set in stone, the build up is either slow and drags on forever, or it is too quick, and leaves the match with no purpose. The angle with no purpose. The company has forgotten how to pace a story.

5) So what went wrong with the youth movement? The same thing that is currently wrong with the company as a whole; you can try to compare it to whatever other company you want, but that doesn't take away from the flaws in the current product. There is no more depth to angles, no more real meaning to title runs, no interest in wrestling by the people who run the company. Which means there is no real way to build stars into superstars. But that is just my take.

 

[Keyote]

Well I'm not going to say anything about the younger talents already taking over the main event scene and getting big pushes, because I think that by now all of that has already been pointed out and established by pretty much everyone who has posted so far in this thread.

The reason why the veterans are there is to give the greener guys the rub. Booker put over Cody, Nash attempted to put over Punk until HHH decided to insert himself for whatever reason that was, Foley came back to do the occasional promo with some of the newer talents, etc. Let me put it this way - a guy like Orton wouldn't be in the position he's in now if veterans like Foley and Undertaker didn't put him over. The wrestling business is a place where the passing of the torch is a custom that must take place between generations. Why do you think TNA invests so much money in hiring older wrestlers? I mean, it's very arguable to whether TNA's legends programming is actually working, but in WWE it does more times then less.

As Ric Flair once said, "To be the man, you've gotta' beat the man!"

I'd agree if the older guys brought back still had pull, but they don't. I think at this point bringing the older guys back is more in the hopes of people getting all misty-eyed about the older product and tuning back in more than it is giving the younger guys the rub. Orton wouldn't be in the position he was, but that was when: Foley, Undertaker, Triple H, etc. were regularly on the road and wrestling on a regular basis. Now, they aren't. Hence it doesn't really mean as much and there isn't a possibility of a "rub", the only person beating "Legends" worked for was Orton, and it was because his character was a bit of a bully then and it was his moniker. If Foley were in match after match, Booker T, or Kevin Nash, the statement would make sense; if they were built back up to be who they were, it would make sense. but Booker was beaten by Cody Rhodes and looked sloppy when he tried to get back in the ring, Mick Foley only in the royal rumble, and Kevin Nash, only against Triple H. :::Shrug::: Doesn't really wash.

 

[wrestlingfanatic98]

It is simple, the buck stops with vince. Before who was the WWE's talent relation? good old JR.

Who is running the talent of relations now? Johnny Ace. Now what has Ace done? he ended the OVW. and brought you talents such has Khali and kozlov.

Now who did JR bring in? orton cena lesnar stone cold the list goes on. So when PPL moan about the youth development, look at guys like Ace who ended an agreement which helped bring in talents, that put together the biggest BOOM period in the company's history. The day the OVW agreement ended, we saw less and less talented PPL come in, and the youth development really went to hell

 

[bk555]

i am as stumped about this as ever. Build young stars and shove them down their throat and things will be all good right? WRONG. The problem is Vince gave the young guys too much of a shot. Even in the attitude era, the young stars were put on the back burner for guys like Austin and the Rock. Now, more specifically, Cena and Orton (The two big guys) have frequently put over young guys and have even more frequently sat on the sidelines for a main event. I dont get it, why have guys like Miz and Ziggler who have potential for the FUTURE go ahead of Cena who is a much more believable main eventer. The youth movement failed because the lack of involvement in Cena and Orton has people not truly believing the youngsters as main eventers.