Smackdown Sucks Without Christian...

[Big Nick Dudley]

Orton simply cant be on top of SD until he retires.

He's 31 years of age, I wouldn't hold your breath.

You need a heel to balance things out. Cena had his Miz, Orton can have his Henry. Honestly theres nobody else out there that could get the job done. Sheamus doesnt do shit with the title, they've exhausted the Christian scenario, and Wade's in limbo.

Heels are constantly created and defeated. How long do you think Mark Henry should stay on top? I say no more than a month. He's doing really well with this, but it's not going to last forever. Mark isn't that kind of talent.

Ohh ha ha you bolded he's because apparently I couldnt figure out that the fat guy who hasnt held a title in years is going to be relevant by being in the ring with Orton. Thank you for pointing that out.

Subtlety isn't my thing... after all, I'm not Randy Orton.

Sure, Henry becomes huge after facing Orton but then what?

Then what for Henry? He drops back down to the middle of the card, I'd suppose. That's what happens to heels.

Hell Christian is a bigger star than him and they took him off TV and apparently discontinued the whole ordeal.

Ahh, Christian missed one week of television, which was completely necessary, and people are crying. They needed to keep those two apart, and Orton's the champion. This shit isn't that complicated.

Oh, and what do you mean by "discontinued?" That feud ended after months and months of great matches. How else should it have ended? Nothing was discontinued, or cancelled, it just came to its inevitable conclusion.

You pointed out Superstars, and thats exactly what will happen to Henry if he loses. For the sake of preserving a superstar they spent months building up they could make this rivalry worth it.

Even if Henry suffers, the rivalry won't. Why? The top guy will, once again, look strong as fuck. That's the point of this whole thing. Maybe that's where you're getting confused. Do you think this whole thing is meant to get Mark Henry over for years to come? Make him a huge star? If that's what you believe, you're in for a big, fat glass of disappointment. This is all about Orton. He's the star, not Mark Henry.

I wouldnt be pissed because I'm a huge Orton mark. As far as Orton pinning him cleanly after the next PPV, thats just ******ed. If the guy who took out SHow, Kozlov, and Kane couldnt give Orton a run for his money while Christian, the smallest WHC since Rey beat Orton for the title numerous times none of it would make any sense.

Do I want Orton to pin Henry, clean, at the next PPV? No, I'd like to see that feud last at least two months. However, we should be clear - whether Henry loses today, tomorrow, or two months from now, it won't make much difference. Orton's winning this feud, and Henry won't look weak in the process. Maybe he'll look weak to you, seeing you already have your mind made up, but he won't look weak to most fans. Why? Orton's the best in the world.

How can you even say something like that? We know what happens to guys on SD once they lose a WHC match. They linger around in limbo for a while, then get sent to superstars or something. WWE couldnt even risk something like that with a guy like Henry who they really had to do everything with him to get him over as a heel. Its not a risk WWE is likely to take, and I'm pretty sure Henry wont lose clean to Orton. It makes him look weak.

Mark Henry is 40 years old. This is probably his one and only "big" run. Mark Henry and Randy Orton aren't going to have a set of amazing matches like Orton and Christian, so I doubt WWE will have them together for a long time. Combine that with Orton definitely winning the feud, as a whole, and I don't think this last longer than two PPV's. To be honest, I could see Orton beating Henry at NOC. I know that's insane, but it's certainly possible, and I wouldn't mind.

I didnt know I hated Orton. All this time I thought he was my favorite star. I was going to get his DVD too. And there was that time when I had that awesome sig of his for like a month. I also didnt know I wasnt making much sense by saying that a guy wont look weak by losing a match.

Fine, you like Orton. Me too.

Good, we agree - Mark Henry can lose, and not look weak Rock 'n' Roll!

 

[Alittude]

You're confusing no emotion with subtlety. He's subtle, or understated. That's how he has always been, and it works.



Not really. He's about as psycho as psycho can get, without looking foolish.



According to who? You? The crowd goes insane for this guy, in every arena across the country. He's as over as over can get. If the majority of fans agreed with you, he'd be getting the Cena treatment. He's not.

Sorry, but you're wrong. We're not.



And you'd probably hate him. You'd call him bland, or stale, or whatever the popular terms are today for guys who actually get over, and stay over. The IWC just can't stand that sort of thing.



Yes, I can. Randy Orton is the most charismatic superstar on Smackdown. Here's the dictionary definition of charisma:



Whoever gets the biggest reaction is the most charismatic. People around here have a really fucked up definition of charisma.



Your hatred for guys once they hit the top is the real problem here, sorry to break the bad news.

My hatred for guys who hit the top? Lmao who do I hate? I don't hate Orton I think his boring. Who else do I hate that's on top? Tell me more about myself haha you idiot. About as phycho as one gets without looking foolish? That comment was foolish. He could do much much more with his character than always being the same. He could add more substance just be more interesting as he is incredibly boring on the mic. Yeah according to me and many others. Just because he is over doesn't mean he can't be stale. Girls who cheer for him because his hot and little kids aren't going to stop cheering for him if he does the same thing every week on the mic because that's what they like. Lol nice we're right, you're wrong statement yeah you seem like a real genious. There is no wrong or right it's opinion and it's subjective.

Don't tell me I'd hate Christian if he was on top. Why do you feel the need to make up shit? Lmao at saying Orton is more charismatic than Christian. Even funnier saying whoever gets the biggest reaction is the most charismatic. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. Is Mark Henry one of the most charismatic people in the WWE because of his overness atm? Not at all. I can't say anymore because of how dumb that comment was.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Orton simply cant be on top of SD until he retires. You need a heel to balance things out. Cena had his Miz, Orton can have his Henry. Honestly theres nobody else out there that could get the job done. Sheamus doesnt do shit with the title, they've exhausted the Christian scenario, and Wade's in limbo.


Ohh ha ha you bolded he's because apparently I couldnt figure out that the fat guy who hasnt held a title in years is going to be relevant by being in the ring with Orton. Thank you for pointing that out.

Sure, Henry becomes huge after facing Orton but then what? Hell Christian is a bigger star than him and they took him off TV and apparently discontinued the whole ordeal. You pointed out Superstars, and thats exactly what will happen to Henry if he loses. For the sake of preserving a superstar they spent months building up they could make this rivalry worth it.




I wouldnt be pissed because I'm a huge Orton mark. As far as Orton pinning him cleanly after the next PPV, thats just ******ed. If the guy who took out SHow, Kozlov, and Kane couldnt give Orton a run for his money while Christian, the smallest WHC since Rey beat Orton for the title numerous times none of it would make any sense.



How can you even say something like that? We know what happens to guys on SD once they lose a WHC match. They linger around in limbo for a while, then get sent to superstars or something. WWE couldnt even risk something like that with a guy like Henry who they really had to do everything with him to get him over as a heel. Its not a risk WWE is likely to take, and I'm pretty sure Henry wont lose clean to Orton. It makes him look weak.


I didnt know I hated Orton. All this time I thought he was my favorite star. I was going to get his DVD too. And there was that time when I had that awesome sig of his for like a month. I also didnt know I wasnt making much sense by saying that a guy wont look weak by losing a match.

If he's the most over guy he can be. Why not? That's like saying "Albert Pujols can't be the best player for 10 years" when, you know, if he performs well enough, he can.

Yes he will be relevant, he IS relevant. He's over. Who cares if he's never held the title for 10 years and was a midcarder most of the other time....so was Christian.

They didn't "take him off TV". That's another term you just butchered. To "take someone off TV" is more of a permanent thing. Giving him a week off so they can start a new storyline and sell the injury isn't "taking him off TV". The ordeal isn't discontinued, he got his ass handed to him and Orton won the feud. How is it discontinued. Yea he has a rematch clause, but who wants to face a guy who just beat your ass? Or maybe he will, we don't know, it's a story.

If Henry goes through a really awesome feud with Orton that lasts a few matches and culminates in an awesome finale, then it will build Henry. He'll be bigger than he was before. He doesn't need to beat Orton, at least not on the feud, just have a great feud. Then again, if Henry beats Orton then people will complain about "hotshotting" the title around and when Orton inevitably wins it back they'll complain about how many reigns he has.

Christian beat Orton for the title in cheap ways, none were clean. I think that Henry will give Orton a run for his money but may not beat him. It's a different style of feud.

Henry won't look weak if he loses a hard fought match to Orton. Orton is the man on Smackdown.

People here (this is away from the quote) seem to think that wins and losses build more credibility than they really do. It's more about your character. How over your character is.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

My hatred for guys who hit the top? Lmao who do I hate? I don't hate Orton I think his boring.

When picking a wrestler to cheer for or boo, what's the difference?

Tell me more about myself haha you idiot.

You know nothing about wrestling, and you're not very smart.

About as phycho as one gets without looking foolish? That comment was foolish. He could do much much more with his character than always being the same. He could add more substance just be more interesting as he is incredibly boring on the mic.

He's subtle. That's his character. 95% of the time he's able to channel that anger, and use it to his advantage. That's why he wrestles a slow, methodical pace. He's working the crowd. Just because he doesn't jump around, appealing to 10 year olds, doesn't mean he isn't charismatic. Do we really need to define charisma again? I hope not. But, if it's necessary, look back to what I posted earlier.

Yeah according to me and many others. Just because he is over doesn't mean he can't be stale.

Fine, he's stale in your opinion. I can deal with that, it's all subjective. However, you need to deal with the fact that you are in the minority. The small, very small minority.

Girls who cheer for him because his hot and little kids aren't going to stop cheering for him if he does the same thing every week on the mic because that's what they like.

Oh, so he's John Cena all of a sudden? Even though they are polar opposites? Orton is very popular with men, not just women and children. You can attempt to sell that theory, but it's bullshit, and anyone with half a brain knows I'm right about that.

Lol nice we're right, you're wrong statement yeah you seem like a real genious.

Genius*

There is no wrong or right it's opinion and it's subjective.

Agreed. You can dislike whoever you want, but don't say he's stale, or boring, like it's a fact. Obviously it's not a fact, seeing you're in the minority when it comes to how fans feel about Randy Orton.

Lmao at saying Orton is more charismatic than Christian. Even funnier saying whoever gets the biggest reaction is the most charismatic. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. Is Mark Henry one of the most charismatic people in the WWE because of his overness atm? Not at all. I can't say anymore because of how dumb that comment was.

This would be much easier if you understood what charisma meant. You don't, so we'll just end this here.

 

[H33LTurn]

^Allitude, its quite simple. If you dont think that Orton should be given the SuperCena treatment or that his character is fine the way it is then you automatically hate him. I mean how could you dispute that?

As for Nick I'm not even going to comment on that, its way too much pulling on strings for a simple "I dont think it would be good for Henry to lose clean to Orton on his first try. It would make him look bad".

I also like how that TW...whatever guy who initially bitched about an idea of mine (what a surprise) hasnt even replied. Guy acts like he knows the business because he set up the ROH ring. Hey I set up a house of cards, maybe I should go do construction work.

Smackdown sucked without Christian but I'm sure it'll get better by next week, when Henry and Orton confront eachother.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

My hatred for guys who hit the top? Lmao who do I hate? I don't hate Orton I think his boring. Who else do I hate that's on top? Tell me more about myself haha you idiot. About as phycho as one gets without looking foolish? That comment was foolish. He could do much much more with his character than always being the same. He could add more substance just be more interesting as he is incredibly boring on the mic. Yeah according to me and many others. Just because he is over doesn't mean he can't be stale. Girls who cheer for him because his hot and little kids aren't going to stop cheering for him if he does the same thing every week on the mic because that's what they like. Lol nice we're right, you're wrong statement yeah you seem like a real genious. There is no wrong or right it's opinion and it's subjective.

Don't tell me I'd hate Christian if he was on top. Why do you feel the need to make up shit? Lmao at saying Orton is more charismatic than Christian. Even funnier saying whoever gets the biggest reaction is the most charismatic. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. Is Mark Henry one of the most charismatic people in the WWE because of his overness atm? Not at all. I can't say anymore because of how dumb that comment was.

You think he's boring, he's over. Your opinion matters more than "kids and girls"? Yea, because that's 90% of the audience, he gets HUGE cheers. So either the audience is mostly children and women (which because you play to the masses means that your opinion actually doesn't matter) or that more adult men like Orton (which means you'd still be a minority and your opinion wouldn't matter). Either way, you think Orton is stale, most people don't, so why even interject your opinion? You think WWE is going to change stuff for you? Yes, opinion is subjective, but thinking a guy is boring and understanding why he's over are 2 different things. He's not over because he's boring on the mic. He's boring to you, but to everyone else he's really really good. Could you admit that?

Yes, Orton is more charismatic than Christian. Christian isn't very over. He has his ridiculous fans who think he should win every match clean, but Christian smiling and pointing and talking in an airy voice and saying clever things does not mean he's charismatic. Also, Mark Henry is very charismatic. Charisma isn't just being loud and outspoken. It's having a presence, a magnetic presence, which Henry has.

Charisma is somewhat subjective. To YOU Christian is more charismatic than Orton or Henry. To most others, he's not. At least certainly not more than Orton. You know how sports analysts are supposed to seperate their fanhood from reality? You should try the same when looking at the WWE and analysing it on here.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

^Allitude, its quite simple. If you dont think that Orton should be given the SuperCena treatment or that his character is fine the way it is then you automatically hate him. I mean how could you dispute that?

As for Nick I'm not even going to comment on that, its way too much pulling on strings for a simple "I dont think it would be good for Henry to lose clean to Orton on his first try. It would make him look bad".

I also like how that TW...whatever guy who initially bitched about an idea of mine (what a surprise) hasnt even replied. Guy acts like he knows the business because he set up the ROH ring. Hey I set up a house of cards, maybe I should go do construction work.

Smackdown sucked without Christian but I'm sure it'll get better by next week, when Henry and Orton confront eachother.

I think what Nick is implying is that a LOT of posters on here hate anyone who is the top babyface. Which is true. Orton is cool until he's a babyface. A lot of you guys love heels and are always calling for heel turns. Seriously go look at that "who would you turn" thread, probably a 3:1 "turn heel" to "turn face" ratio because the IWC LOVES heels. Actually they love the anti-hero tweener who talks shit but wins clean the most.

I don't think I know pro wrestling because I've been somewhat inside it. I think I know "business" because that's what I study and that's what the WWE is running. I apply "asset" or "product" logic to the wrestlers. Which is obviously what the WWE does. I didn't see your idea, but I'll go look for it.

Most people didn't think Smackdown sucked without Christian. If ONE GUY makes a show suck or not, then you are probably putting way too much weight in that one guy. I haven't looked but I'm guessing ratings and media views (youtube, dailymotion) are about the same as before with Christian. He's not that important of a piece of the smackdown puzzle.

 

[Alittude]

When picking a wrestler to cheer for or boo, what's the difference?



You know nothing about wrestling, and you're not very smart.



He's subtle. That's his character. 95% of the time he's able to channel that anger, and use it to his advantage. That's why he wrestles a slow, methodical pace. He's working the crowd. Just because he doesn't jump around, appealing to 10 year olds, doesn't mean he isn't charismatic. Do we really need to define charisma again? I hope not. But, if it's necessary, look back to what I posted earlier.



Fine, he's stale in your opinion. I can deal with that, it's all subjective. However, you need to deal with the fact that you are in the minority. The small, very small minority.



Oh, so he's John Cena all of a sudden? Even though they are polar opposites? Orton is very popular with men, not just women and children. You can attempt to sell that theory, but it's bullshit, and anyone with half a brain knows I'm right about that.



Genius*



Agreed. You can dislike whoever you want, but don't say he's stale, or boring, like it's a fact. Obviously it's not a fact, seeing you're in the minority when it comes to how fans feel about Randy Orton.



This would be much easier if you understood what charisma meant. You don't, so we'll just end this here.

It's funny that you have Rupert Pupkin in your sig because you're about as delusional as him. I'm not going to look at what you said about charisma again because you're an idiot. Del Rio went from not getting much reaction from the crowd to getting a ton because he won the belt. So you're saying he instantly became more charismatic? The WWE machine can get behind anyone they please that doesn't make that person instantly more charismatic. Christian got a lot of his fans due to being naturally charismatic and this was way before he ever had the WWE hype machine behind him. Christian exudes charisma every time he is on the screen and if you watched the performer instead of listening for the biggest crowd reaction you'd see that.

 

[H33LTurn]

If he's the most over guy he can be. Why not? That's like saying "Albert Pujols can't be the best player for 10 years" when, you know, if he performs well enough, he can.

Because its horrible creative wise. Hasnt Cena being on top for almost 10 years nearly killed RAW? You could count on your finger the number of people who are cool with someone being champ for 10 years consecutively.

They didn't "take him off TV". That's another term you just butchered. To "take someone off TV" is more of a permanent thing. Giving him a week off so they can start a new storyline and sell the injury isn't "taking him off TV". The ordeal isn't discontinued, he got his ass handed to him and Orton won the feud. How is it discontinued. Yea he has a rematch clause, but who wants to face a guy who just beat your ass? Or maybe he will, we don't know, it's a story.

I wasnt using a term, I mean they literally did not include the Christian character on the last edition of SD. To discontinue something is to stop it. They stopped the rivalry because it reached a good conclusion, for now.

If Henry goes through a really awesome feud with Orton that lasts a few matches and culminates in an awesome finale, then it will build Henry. He'll be bigger than he was before. He doesn't need to beat Orton, at least not on the feud, just have a great feud. Then again, if Henry beats Orton then people will complain about "hotshotting" the title around and when Orton inevitably wins it back they'll complain about how many reigns he has.

Again whos saying Henry needs to beat Orton. He just doesnt need to have both shoulders on the mat at NOC.

Christian beat Orton for the title in cheap ways, none were clean. I think that Henry will give Orton a run for his money but may not beat him. It's a different style of feud.

Again, who said anything about beating Orton?

People here (this is away from the quote) seem to think that wins and losses build more credibility than they really do. It's more about your character. How over your character is.

Did you just make the entire concept of winning a match obsolete? People NEEED wins, your character just cant pull you through all the shit. Winning means that from a competitive standpoint you have what it takes.

 

[H33LTurn]

I think what Nick is implying is that a LOT of posters on here hate anyone who is the top babyface. Which is true. Orton is cool until he's a babyface. A lot of you guys love heels and are always calling for heel turns. Seriously go look at that "who would you turn" thread, probably a 3:1 "turn heel" to "turn face" ratio because the IWC LOVES heels. Actually they love the anti-hero tweener who talks shit but wins clean the most.

I have yet to show any indication that I stopped liking Orton when he turned faced. Its quite the opposite to be exact.

I don't think I know pro wrestling because I've been somewhat inside it. I think I know "business" because that's what I study and that's what the WWE is running. I apply "asset" or "product" logic to the wrestlers. Which is obviously what the WWE does. I didn't see your idea, but I'll go look for it.

Do you thing WWE approaches their product with as much maturity as you do? You made a sig out of a word that you THINK I misused. You obviously know nothing about burrying people. I hope Henry loses clean to Orton just so you can see what I'm talking about.

Most people didn't think Smackdown sucked without Christian. If ONE GUY makes a show suck or not, then you are probably putting way too much weight in that one guy. I haven't looked but I'm guessing ratings and media views (youtube, dailymotion) are about the same as before with Christian. He's not that important of a piece of the smackdown puzzle.

Its not just one guy. Its the rivalry that has been carrying the show for months now and to end it with Christian not even showing his face is kind of disappointing.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Because its horrible creative wise. Hasnt Cena being on top for almost 10 years nearly killed RAW? You could count on your finger the number of people who are cool with someone being champ for 10 years consecutively.



I wasnt using a term, I mean they literally did not include the Christian character on the last edition of SD. To discontinue something is to stop it. They stopped the rivalry because it reached a good conclusion, for now.

Again whos saying Henry needs to beat Orton. He just doesnt need to have both shoulders on the mat at NOC.


Again, who said anything about beating Orton?



Did you just make the entire concept of winning a match obsolete? People NEEED wins, your character just cant pull you through all the shit. Winning means that from a competitive standpoint you have what it takes.

Cena has carried Raw. So no, him being the top guy and often being champ (like any other top guy) when no one else (and they tried) could be as over as him isn't a bad thing. Is it bad that Coke has made a lot of money off Coke and hasn't found another soda other Coke to be their flagship?

Okay, so they ended the Christian feud (maybe). Why is that bad? You want to see Orton elevate Christian the whole time?

I agree. At NOC, it should be a questionable finish so that at Hell in a Cell Orton, the ultimate psycho-badass babyface has to get into a cage with the ultimate psycho-badass heel. Should be awesome.

Yes, a character needs to win, but it's not as important as people on here make it. For example, if Punk wins at Summerslam, his character loses steam because no one gives a shit about the guy with the belt claiming to be held down. Or a more relevant example, if Christian would have won clean at Summerslam, his chickenshit heel character is less over.

It's more about character development. Yes, you need to win matches but they mean nothing if you aren't over. Have Justin Gabriel beat John Cena, Orton, Del Rio, and Mark Henry clean on consecutive weeks and unite the titles and he's still not as over as the other 4 guys he just beat.

Like I said, you're looking at it from a "selfish" perspective. "What do I like" instead of analysing (spelling) it. Things are a lot less frustrating when, even if it doesn't entertain you, you understand everything.

 

[Alittude]

You think he's boring, he's over. Your opinion matters more than "kids and girls"? Yea, because that's 90% of the audience, he gets HUGE cheers. So either the audience is mostly children and women (which because you play to the masses means that your opinion actually doesn't matter) or that more adult men like Orton (which means you'd still be a minority and your opinion wouldn't matter). Either way, you think Orton is stale, most people don't, so why even interject your opinion? You think WWE is going to change stuff for you? Yes, opinion is subjective, but thinking a guy is boring and understanding why he's over are 2 different things. He's not over because he's boring on the mic. He's boring to you, but to everyone else he's really really good. Could you admit that?

Yes, Orton is more charismatic than Christian. Christian isn't very over. He has his ridiculous fans who think he should win every match clean, but Christian smiling and pointing and talking in an airy voice and saying clever things does not mean he's charismatic. Also, Mark Henry is very charismatic. Charisma isn't just being loud and outspoken. It's having a presence, a magnetic presence, which Henry has.

Charisma is somewhat subjective. To YOU Christian is more charismatic than Orton or Henry. To most others, he's not. At least certainly not more than Orton. You know how sports analysts are supposed to seperate their fanhood from reality? You should try the same when looking at the WWE and analysing it on here.

Mark Henry is very charismati? Because of his look alone? Have you ever heard him talk? There is no way in hell he is charismatic. He has no personality or flair and isn't naturally interesting by himself one bit. Again you repeat yourself saying I don't understand why his over. I've already replied to this once before I know why he is over and I have enjoyed Orton in the past I just think he is boring right now, I'm not saying he's a bad talent at all. Lol at telling me to seperate my fanhood from reality. You don't seem like you have the slightest idea of what reality is.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I have yet to show any indication that I stopped liking Orton when he turned faced. Its quite the opposite to be exact.


Do you thing WWE approaches their product with as much maturity as you do? You made a sig out of a word that you THINK I misused. You obviously know nothing about burrying people. I hope Henry loses clean to Orton just so you can see what I'm talking about.

Its not just one guy. Its the rivalry that has been carrying the show for months now and to end it with Christian not even showing his face is kind of disappointing.

I never said YOU were that way. I said that I've noticed a lot of posters on here are like that that's likely what Nick is referring to.

No, I think the WWE approaches their product in a way so much superior to the way that I approach looking at it that my mind would explode if I tried to understand it all at once. I admit that they have people smarter than me working for them.

I didn't make my sig because of you, it was all of the ridiculous "nash buried Punk" "Cena buried MITB" "Orton buried Christian" shit. If Orton beats Henry clean in 10 minutes at NOC, that would bury him because he'd be a lot less over than before. If it lasts until HIAC and Orton goes through hell to beat Henry no, it won't be burying him.

Christian didn't show his face because they needed to reset things. He's not so over that he MUST be on the show. Kayfabe he was beaten the shit out of and really, him not being on the show puts over the brutality of their match even more and puts over Orton more as a badass and Christian as being super tough (in the match).

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Mark Henry is very charismati? Because of his look alone? Have you ever heard him talk? There is no way in hell he is charismatic. He has no personality or flair and isn't naturally interesting by himself one bit. Again you repeat yourself saying I don't understand why his over. I've already replied to this once before I know why he is over and I have enjoyed Orton in the past I just think he is boring right now, I'm not saying he's a bad talent at all. Lol at telling me to seperate my fanhood from reality. You don't seem like you have the slightest idea of what reality is.

Jeff Hardy couldn't talk worth a fuck, yet he had charisma. Mark Henry makes people look at him. Makes people pay attention. Not just his size, but his scowl, his demeanor, his posture, it all brings it together into something interesting that people want to watch.

I don't know what reality is? Explain. I mean, Daniel Bryan is my favorite wrestler, he's the only guy who's youtube channel I watch. However, I don't think he should be champ, he's not over enough. Personally, I appreciate Orton, but I'm not a huge fan, however, I completely understand and advocate him being champion.

 

[H33LTurn]

Cena has carried Raw. So no, him being the top guy and often being champ (like any other top guy) when no one else (and they tried) could be as over as him isn't a bad thing. Is it bad that Coke has made a lot of money off Coke and hasn't found another soda other Coke to be their flagship?

Did you just compare wrestling to soda? Coke doesnt have a bunch of other employees busting their asses to job to the guy whos been on and off champ for almost a decade now. Actually, Cena is ok. You're trying to say Orton could actually be the WHC for 10 years in a row, which is ridiculous. I'm his biggest fan and I'm already sick of seeing him with the title all the time.

Okay, so they ended the Christian feud (maybe). Why is that bad? You want to see Orton elevate Christian the whole time?

I didnt say that was bad.

Yes, a character needs to win, but it's not as important as people on here make it. For example, if Punk wins at Summerslam, his character loses steam because no one gives a shit about the guy with the belt claiming to be held down. Or a more relevant example, if Christian would have won clean at Summerslam, his chickenshit heel character is less over.

Why not? Punk fans gave a shit even though he was a former world champ fresh off a rivalry with Orton. They cared when he was co champs with Cena, so why would they stop caring. Punk didnt need to win because Del Rio came and make the save but unfortunately SD's MITB winner is waiting months so we're doomed to have the same man as champ for a while now.

It's more about character development. Yes, you need to win matches but they mean nothing if you aren't over. Have Justin Gabriel beat John Cena, Orton, Del Rio, and Mark Henry clean on consecutive weeks and unite the titles and he's still not as over as the other 4 guys he just beat.

Who said he was going to be. Thats just taking my poing out of context.

Like I said, you're looking at it from a "selfish" perspective. "What do I like" instead of analysing (spelling) it. Things are a lot less frustrating when, even if it doesn't entertain you, you understand everything.

I
I did analyze it, and it wouldnt hurt if they let the Henry situation go the distance. Obviously I'm going to speak from my mind and not from the WWE's pockets because after all that why we're all on a wrestling forum. Not to say that my ideas arent realistic. Most of my ideas have actually come to pass in the WWE, so thats why I can speak with so much certainty.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Did you just compare wrestling to soda? Coke doesnt have a bunch of other employees busting their asses to job to the guy whos been on and off champ for almost a decade now. Actually, Cena is ok. You're trying to say Orton could actually be the WHC for 10 years in a row, which is ridiculous. I'm his biggest fan and I'm already sick of seeing him with the title all the time.

I didnt say that was bad.




Why not? Punk fans gave a shit even though he was a former world champ fresh off a rivalry with Orton. They cared when he was co champs with Cena, so why would they stop caring. Punk didnt need to win because Del Rio came and make the save but unfortunately SD's MITB winner is waiting months so we're doomed to have the same man as champ for a while now.


Who said he was going to be. Thats just taking my poing out of context.

I
I did analyze it, and it wouldnt hurt if they let the Henry situation go the distance. Obviously I'm going to speak from my mind and not from the WWE's pockets because after all that why we're all on a wrestling forum. Not to say that my ideas arent realistic. Most of my ideas have actually come to pass in the WWE, so thats why I can speak with so much certainty.

Yea it's like soda or any other business. You push your best asset/product until it stops selling and you find something better and you keep trying to push new products. It's not that crazy of a comparison. No, I was only saying that Orton COULD be on top of smackdown till he retires if he's the most over guy.

Why not what? Why is winning not AS important? Because the character is really what people care about. A guy who wins but has no character won't get over. Yes, he needs to win to be believable at times, but if wins meant that much then Shelton Benjamin would be a lot more over than he is after beating HHH three times. Instead the Miz gets a segment about Subway sandwiches over. He's an interesting character that people like to see.

Maybe I took your point out of context. I think we agree on things and disagree on others. I don't think Henry needs to take the belt off of Orton, unless they're giving him a courtesy run. However, this doesn't seem like a long feud with HIAC so soon. What can you do after a HIAC?

I wouldn't be surprised if they did let Henry run with it and then had Orton chase. I just don't think it's necessary. Maybe they'll do something we haven't thought of (they usually do). Maybe Henry won't be in HIAC. Maybe somehow Christian will weasle his way in and Henry will come in, rip the cell apart and destory both guys and hold the title hostage. Who knows.

I would LIKE for them to push Henry as far as he can go. I just don't think it's necessary. Orton's job is to make other guys relevant. He doesn't need to put them over to do this.

 

[Alittude]

Jeff Hardy couldn't talk worth a fuck, yet he had charisma. Mark Henry makes people look at him. Makes people pay attention. Not just his size, but his scowl, his demeanor, his posture, it all brings it together into something interesting that people want to watch.

I don't know what reality is? Explain. I mean, Daniel Bryan is my favorite wrestler, he's the only guy who's youtube channel I watch. However, I don't think he should be champ, he's not over enough. Personally, I appreciate Orton, but I'm not a huge fan, however, I completely understand and advocate him being champion.

Alright all personal insults aside because I'm over it haha at the end of the day I understand why Orton is champ too and I'd prefer Christian with the strap a lot more but it's ok. At the end of the day I still missed Christian on Smackdown this week and I think he add's a whole lot to the show and feel that it's missing something without him and I'm hoping that he is given a prominent role when he returns. You're opinion is different and that's fine but it's not going to change mine.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Alright all personal insults aside because I'm over it haha at the end of the day I understand why Orton is champ too and I'd prefer Christian with the strap a lot more but it's ok. At the end of the day I still missed Christian on Smackdown this week and I think he add's a whole lot to the show and feel that it's missing something without him and I'm hoping that he is given a prominent role when he returns. You're opinion is different and that's fine but it's not going to change mine.

I didn't insult you in the quote of mine you used.

Christian does add something to the show. To me a wrestling show is like going to a restaurant. You want a great atmosphere (production value), great service (commentators), then an appetizer, maybe hit the cold bar, a meaty entre, and then maybe some dessert at the end.

Guys like Orton and Cena and now Punk are like your house specialty, you pretty much always need it. Christian isn't that important. He adds a lot of spice to the show, but he's not so ridicuoulsly over that he MUST be on the show.

As far as Christian in a major role. I think that his feud with Orton means what whatever babyface he goes against next will be more over by going against him.

Why do you prefer Christian with the belt? Unless he's with Orton, the title feud would then be less over than whatever feud Christian is in (making Christian look bad). Plus Christian's character is a lot more interesting making excuses without the title. So either way, he's either less over, less interesting, or getting shown up. I understand that as a mark of the guy you want to see him with the belt (actually I really don't, I don't need my favorite guys to have the belt to feel justified about being a fan but I understand the thought behind it).

BTW that last bit wasn't mean to be offensive, just actually what I was thinking. A lot of people here, mostly Punk and Christian fans, want their favs to have the belt even though it hurts their overness and how interesting their character is. I personally don't feel that way and don't understand it, but I can see the logic behind it.

 

[Alittude]

I agree with you on Punk because the storyline his in is still prominant and even more interesting without the belt atm. We don't know what Christian will be doing exactly after this and while he had the belt we'd get to see him in most opening segments, a match and then an appearance to end the show and I was loving his work with the belt. Not only that it was REFRESHING to see someone new and good with the belt. I get sick of seeing Cena and Orton hold the belts all the time just like I got sick of HHH when he use to hog it. It's good to mix it up and keep things interesting. If Christian is given a big part to play even without the title then I'll still be happy, if he isn't given a big role my interest in Smackdown will go down a bit.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I agree with you on Punk because the storyline his in is still prominant and even more interesting without the belt atm. We don't know what Christian will be doing exactly after this and while he had the belt we'd get to see him in most opening segments, a match and then an appearance to end the show and I was loving his work with the belt. Not only that it was REFRESHING to see someone new and good with the belt. I get sick of seeing Cena and Orton hold the belts all the time just like I got sick of HHH when he use to hog it. It's good to mix it up and keep things interesting. If Christian is given a big part to play even without the title then I'll still be happy, if he isn't given a big role my interest in Smackdown will go down a bit.

Understandable but if he's not that over then he doesn't really deserve a prominent spot does he?

I think they'll still twist Christian in the WHC feud. If not, if you're such a fan of Christian's work, watching his segments otherwise should still entertain you right? What if he gets 1 segment per night with Sheamus and the rest of the show is solid too? It's unrealistic to expect a guy who's not that over to be shown so much on the show. You might be tired of Orton and Cena, but they make the company the most money. I wish Coke would produce more Vanilla Coke all the time, they don't though and I get why.

 

[Alittude]

If the WWE put the full hype machine behind Christian he could be extremely over. Like I said he got over without it so he can certainly do it with it. Winning the belt got him very over and he became the top heel on the show.

You question why I want to see him with the belt but then you say I shouldn't complain if he doesn't get much air time because his not that over. If he has a lengthy run with the belt don't you think he will get even more over? I mean just having it for a month elevated him quite a bit.

 

[H33LTurn]

Yea it's like soda or any other business. You push your best asset/product until it stops selling and you find something better and you keep trying to push new products. It's not that crazy of a comparison. No, I was only saying that Orton COULD be on top of smackdown till he retires if he's the most over guy.

I have drank Pepsi for my entire life and not once did I or anyone else bring up the point of Pepsi getting stale. Soda is not entertainment, its nutrition. I'm not going to stop drinking it because its been the same for years because I NEED it. But people HAVE stopped watching wrestling because its the same guy on top doing the same stuff over and over again.

Why not what? Why is winning not AS important? Because the character is really what people care about. A guy who wins but has no character won't get over. Yes, he needs to win to be believable at times, but if wins meant that much then Shelton Benjamin would be a lot more over than he is after beating HHH three times. Instead the Miz gets a segment about Subway sandwiches over. He's an interesting character that people like to see.

But a certain win or a loss can define the course of a character. You tell me Miz hasnt lost steam since jobbing to Riley.

Maybe I took your point out of context. I think we agree on things and disagree on others. I don't think Henry needs to take the belt off of Orton, unless they're giving him a courtesy run. However, this doesn't seem like a long feud with HIAC so soon. What can you do after a HIAC?

You dont have to do anything out of HIAC. If Orton/Christian proved anything is that 2 months is the ideal time for a rivalry on SD to run.

I would LIKE for them to push Henry as far as he can go. I just don't think it's necessary. Orton's job is to make other guys relevant. He doesn't need to put them over to do this.

Wrestling isnt about whats necessary. People will watch WWE regardless, its about keeping the product fresh and interesting, that attracts more viewers. A show like SD could use a lot more viewers. I can predict what will happen on SD even without watching it. Orton has a match, the #1 contender comes out and they exchange some words. You tell me if I said anything that hasnt happened since Orton was champ.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I have drank Pepsi for my entire life and not once did I or anyone else bring up the point of Pepsi getting stale. Soda is not entertainment, its nutrition. I'm not going to stop drinking it because its been the same for years because I NEED it. But people HAVE stopped watching wrestling because its the same guy on top doing the same stuff over and over again.


But a certain win or a loss can define the course of a character. You tell me Miz hasnt lost steam since jobbing to Riley.


You dont have to do anything out of HIAC. If Orton/Christian proved anything is that 2 months is the ideal time for a rivalry on SD to run.




Wrestling isnt about whats necessary. People will watch WWE regardless, its about keeping the product fresh and interesting, that attracts more viewers. A show like SD could use a lot more viewers. I can predict what will happen on SD even without watching it. Orton has a match, the #1 contender comes out and they exchange some words. You tell me if I said anything that hasnt happened since Orton was champ.

Dude if you can't see how Pro Wrestling is exactly like any other business then you're fuckin crazy. No, pro wrestlers aren't carbonated drinks. They ARE products though, same fucking thing. Personally, Pepsi DOES get "stale" to me, so I drink cherry Pepsi or Dr. Pepper or Coke or Vanilla Coke sometimes. You know, Cena hasn't gotten stale to a lot of people. So that was a shitty argument on your part.

No Miz hasn't lost steam since jobbing to Riley, he just got a sub sandwhich segment over. He hasn't been BOOKED as strongly, but he's still very over. Remember Jericho winning the Undisputed title going over Rock and Austin? Yea, that didn't really make him super over did it? He kind of lingered around after he lost the title because he wasn't that over. You don't get bigger wins and a bigger title win than that and it didn't get him over. The character has to get themself over.

Yea, but the Christian/Orton rivalry started with Christian as the champion. If you were to give Henry the title, he'd have to lose it in a month. Kind of hotshotting it around. That's my point. A 2 month feud would be awesome, I just don't think it's long enough to give Henry the title considering Orton is your top guy and should always be in the main (title) feud.

People will watch WWE regardless, however, if you don't push your products carefully then over time your sales dwindle. WWE's balance sheet shows that they're still a very healthy company, so they've been doing a good job. You can't just push guys you like to "be fresh" because one persons' opinion doesn't matter.

Typically here's how it works, you push a guy, if he gets more over, push him more, if he doesn't, try again, if he fails, push someone else over him. It's simple. It's not "I like this guy so let's push him to the title and hope he gets over".

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

If the WWE put the full hype machine behind Christian he could be extremely over. Like I said he got over without it so he can certainly do it with it. Winning the belt got him very over and he became the top heel on the show.

You question why I want to see him with the belt but then you say I shouldn't complain if he doesn't get much air time because his not that over. If he has a lengthy run with the belt don't you think he will get even more over? I mean just having it for a month elevated him quite a bit.

He didn't get that over. Winning the belt didn't make him the top heel. Yea, being in the main feud put him up there, but if he were a shitty heel it wouldn't have worked. If he needs the "full hype machine" behind him then he's not that good. Like I've said a million times. Pushes don't get you over, you get over and get a push, then you get more over, then they push you some more. How many guys have held the title or gotten big wins and it doen't get them more over than before? Shelton Benjamin, Jericho, Swagger? Just because you get huge wins and wins titles doesn't mean you suddenly become a huge star.

No, if he has a lengthy run with the title but no one gives a shit he WON'T be more over. That's not how it fucking works. If that was the case then wouldn't the WWE just put the strap on someone new for 6 months every 6 months? I mean, if clean wins and a long title reign was all it took then their job would be a lot easier. That's just not how it works. The character comes first.

Having the title didn't elevate Christian. Being a really good chickenshit heel against Randy Orton did. The fans don't think "he has the belt, he's now better than he was before" they might conciously, but the real reason they care about a guy is the character. The character is good, people think "wow I like this guy" (even if they're booing him, it's a positive reaction in the brain), then he's in a lengthy title feud and it stamps it in there that he's a top guy. If you just give a guy that people aren't all that into a long title reign then the thought process becomes "why is this guy champ?"

 

[H33LTurn]

Dude if you can't see how Pro Wrestling is exactly like any other business then you're fuckin crazy. No, pro wrestlers aren't carbonated drinks. They ARE products though, same fucking thing. Personally, Pepsi DOES get "stale" to me, so I drink cherry Pepsi or Dr. Pepper or Coke or Vanilla Coke sometimes. You know, Cena hasn't gotten stale to a lot of people. So that was a shitty argument on your part.

When a guy gets booed in his own hometown (and hes supposed to be a face) its a clear indication that hes getting stale. And no, no matter how you want to phrase it, wrestling is nothing like soda. I know you get off on imagining that you know more about business here than anybody else but certain businesses run differently. If you simply dont get it then you dont. Your argument for everything is that WWE is right because they're businessmen when Vince will be the first guy to tell you hes made some bad business decisions.

No Miz hasn't lost steam since jobbing to Riley, he just got a sub sandwhich segment over. He hasn't been BOOKED as strongly, but he's still very over. Remember Jericho winning the Undisputed title going over Rock and Austin? Yea, that didn't really make him super over did it? He kind of lingered around after he lost the title because he wasn't that over. You don't get bigger wins and a bigger title win than that and it didn't get him over. The character has to get themself over.

I could get Subway over, and I got about as 1/4 of the charisma that The Miz has. Nobody is saying that the character can rely solely on wins to get themselves over, but wins/loses are of pivotal importance to certain situations. If Cena hadnt won as any times as he did he wouldnt be as credible of a superstar as he is now.

Yea, but the Christian/Orton rivalry started with Christian as the champion. If you were to give Henry the title, he'd have to lose it in a month. Kind of hotshotting it around. That's my point. A 2 month feud would be awesome, I just don't think it's long enough to give Henry the title considering Orton is your top guy and should always be in the main (title) feud.

Hotshotting the title isnt all that bad. What made Christian/Orton so interesting was that both were able to hold the title. Henry doesnt need to win the title, I've never made that argument, but he needs a credible heel to feud with. And I'm sure after Henry's gone someone else will come and take the title off of Orton.

People will watch WWE regardless, however, if you don't push your products carefully then over time your sales dwindle. WWE's balance sheet shows that they're still a very healthy company, so they've been doing a good job. You can't just push guys you like to "be fresh" because one persons' opinion doesn't matter.

Its not one person's opinion. A lot of WWE fans could care less for SD. There was a time when that brand was as good as RAW and now people could care less. Ratings matter, and thats something SD needs improvement on. Its needs to capture more attention.

Typically here's how it works, you push a guy, if he gets more over, push him more, if he doesn't, try again, if he fails, push someone else over him. It's simple. It's not "I like this guy so let's push him to the title and hope he gets over".

who the fuck is saying that just because I like somebody WWE needs to do something. I swear every one of your excuses concludes to bashing someone because they have a personal opinion, no matter how generalized it is. Are you a WWE spokesperson? Because if you arent I dont think they appreciate you claiming that they think just like you do.