Should WWE Let More Rising Stars Do Outrageous Things To Get Over Like The Punk Promo

[PlayTheGame]

It's no secret that the WWE has a lot of younger talent that are having a little trouble getting over. A lot of people think that the potential is there, but for whatever reason, a lot of young guys seem to be having trouble getting over in a big way, and thus this current generation is getting the stigma of "not being very deep talent-wise". Now, creatively-speaking, the WWE can do many things to help a rising star get over. But every once a while, they'll allow someone to do something truly outrageous that gets everyone talking, immediately creating a huge buzz around said superstar.

Now although Punk was fairly popular before his little Promo, everyone can agree that after his infamous "shoot", he got over in a big way and instantly became a top draw. But what if they didn't go with Punk in that spot. What if Miz came out and delivered that exact promo? Or Drew McIntrye? Or Ziggler? Or any young guy who's trying to get over. It'd be quite shocking, and they'd certainly draw a lot of attention to themselves.

So this got me thinking, maybe the WWE should start getting more risky creatively. Even at the sake of not making as much sense or being consistent, maybe the WWE should spend a year to two obtrusively trying to push these young guys, allowing them to do "outrageous", eye-catching things in the ballpark of the Punk promo.

You could have Wade Barrett come out with ALL of the divas on his arm.
You could have Cody Rhodes break Honky Tonk man's IC Title reign length record.
The next time an older veteran retires, you could have Drew McIntyre "end his career" with a "career ending injury".
You could do a similar "shoot" promo with Ziggler saying HHH is holding him down and burying him in the back, something alot of smarks will love to hear.
Maybe even have someone young (*gulp*) end The Streak.

Look, I know these things are a bit extreme, and maybe this whole idea is stupid. But it's not like the WWE is doing anything better creatively, and its not like these guys are getting over very well... why not just go a little crazy for a while, and then tone it down once these guys truly begin to get established? And of course, I don't mean crazy as in more than PG, just more "crazy", Punk-Promo-like occurences that may frankly seem out of place and shock the regular viewer. Because of course it will seem weird that all of this going on at one time, it may be too much. But I think these guys need the help.

What do you think? Just an idea, no need to thrash it if you disagree.

 

[WWEvsJosh]

You could do a similar "shoot" promo with Ziggler saying HHH is holding him down and burying him in the back, something alot of smarks will love to hear.
Maybe even have someone young (*gulp*) end The Streak.

I like all the ideas but these two.
At this point I really dont want to see anyone end the streak. I would really hate for them to have someone end the streak and then that guy not get over.

We dont need people breaking kayfabe like that anymore. CM Punk does it too much and i am already sick of him bring up stuff like that. Breaking kayfabe does not make good mic skills so if he cant get over another way then thats too bad.

But i like your other ideas

 

[Jdulemba1001]

The Undertakers streak will never be broken and the IC reign will never be broken. The IC streak is a good idea, but too many fans today have ADD and will get bored with a reign that long. Id love to see it, and I like how your thinking but the Undertakers streak will go down in history.

 

[Commander Batpope]

As much as I don't want the Undertaker's Streak to end, I can't help but think how interesting and shocking it would be. As far as the IC streak, Jdulemba1001 said it best, fans would get bored. And bored FAST. And as far as the younger talent doing shoot promo's like Punk did, I would like that, to be honest. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, I remember, said in an interview that the young guys need to just speak for themselves, no scripts, just say what comes to the mind. It would make for a very interesting show and, in my opinion, better characters.

 

[SacredMesa]

The Undertakers streak will never be broken and the IC reign will never be broken. The IC streak is a good idea, but too many fans today have ADD and will get bored with a reign that long. Id love to see it, and I like how your thinking but the Undertakers streak will go down in history.

Taker's streak goes down in history regardless if he is 20-1, 20-0 etc etc. It's like saying the Patriots 18-1 doesn't go down in history simply because they lost a game. No I'm not saying they should feed that streak to some random no body who isn't getting anywhere but I could see someone who is coming up actually break it. Say for example Cody Rhodes who is up and coming and doing reasonably well. If he continues to build heat into next years wrestlemania I couldn't think of a better way to cement him as one of the most over heels than to have him end Taker's streak in some under handed manor. People would be absolutely irrate that the streak ended in such a way and he would be getting a level of heat comparible to what Shawn Michaels used to get in Canada.

 

[JaylisJayP]

It's funny, they "let" Punk do this thing for a month, then totally backed him back into just another PG stooge. He's had one half-decent promo since MITB. Don't get me wrong, he's still entertaining, but he's leashed just like the rest of him.

It also doesn't matter how much freedom someone has on the mic, if they don't have the skills to carry out the gimmick verbally, they'll still fail to be entertaining, and nobody will care.

That said, anybody on the roster right now could probably write their own gimmick, angle and story better than the "writers" they had over the last year.

 

[justinept]

We dont need people breaking kayfabe like that anymore. CM Punk does it too much and i am already sick of him bring up stuff like that. Breaking kayfabe does not make good mic skills so if he cant get over another way then thats too bad.

While I agree that I'd never EVER want to hear a wrestler talk about creative pre-determining wins and losses or wrestlers "refusing to do the job" ... I disagree that CM Punk has been breaking kayfabe to get over. Let's not confuse the usage of reality with the breaking of kayfabe.

When Punk claims that he has been held back by the powers in the back, he is using reality. He isn't claiming that the people in the back forced him to lose matches ... He is claiming that the guys in the back weren't putting him in a position to succeed (ie. Letting him headline 12 ppv's per year like John Cena does.) He is claiming that the people in the back weren't featuring him in the promotional material - as they do with Cena - and that's why Cena is considered a bigger "star" than he is.

Even if wrestling wasn't scripted, there would still be guys in the back pulling strings ... guys making title matches ... guys making sure certain guys were promoted over other guys.

Had creative not allowed Punk to speak about those string pullers, it would have been a huge mistake in my opinion. Most fans had been saying the same things for the past number of years, and it was a way for Punk to relate to the fans and to get over in a big way.

Most wrestling personalities have cited a belief that the best way to get over with the audience is to take something about yourself - to turn the volume up - and to present that version of yourself to the audience. This has worked with a number of stars in the past, and it has continued to work with Punk these past 7 months.

Triple H: Once a Connecticut snob, he used his real life friendship - and associations with Nash and Hall - to become an adolescent jackass of a character that prided himself on sophomoric humor. While the original gimmick was cartoonish and difficult to relate to, the new Triple H was seen as more authentic ... and he got over because people actually believed he was just being himself.

Mick Foley: He initially got over with the WWE audience when people were finally given a chance to see the real Mick Foley during a worked-shoot interview with Jim Ross in 1997. Instead of just being some deranged monster, Foley was explained as a man that put his body through hell in order to achieve a boyhood dream. It was the first time we could relate to him - and people started to cheer him because of it.

Vince McMahon: Some refer to him as the greatest heel in WWE history, but he turned from an aw-shucks announcer into Mr. McMahon over night by going into detail about Bret Hart and Montreal Screw Job.

John Cena: The rapper thing ... yea, that really was John Cena. He became a huge star by just turning up the volume on one of his qualities.

Edge: His angle with Lita solidified him as The Rated-R Superstar. He took a real life situation with Lita ... and was still using it to his advantage well after Lita left the company. His relationship with Vicky Guerrero was just an extension of it.

By the way - these are examples of how I think guys should become stars. Take something unique about that person ... something real about that person ... and turn it the hell up. If the guy is a foul-mouthed redneck, then let the guy be a foul-mouthed redneck. Stop coming up with a list of cookie-cutter gimmicks and then issuing those gimmicks to random guys via the dartboard method.

I don't want to see Wade Barrett walk to the ring with all divas unless that wrestler is a known playboy to the extent of Charlie Sheen.

I don't care if Cody Rhodes holds the IC Title for 10 years. That won't make me care about him.

I wouldn't give it a second thought if Drew McIntyre ended some old wrestler's career. It wouldn't make anyone think he's a bad ass because everyone knows it's a damn work.

Give me something authentic and reality based. That's how stars are made.

 

[WWEvsJosh]

I agree with you justinept about what punk is saying but I don't want other people doing it. Anybody that is not over can say that and then we would have a lot of the same characters. I also think you need to be yourself. That's why I love Sheamus. He talks and acts like his charcter in real life but he is more in your face.

 

[legendkiller1979]

It's an interesting idea, but sequels are never as good. If someone was to try this, everybody would compare it to Punk. If you remember, people all over were talking about the promo. The buzz was felt ouside wrestling. There's no way anyone could pull that off a second time.

As for records being broken, wrestling fans don't have the patience for it. Cody would get booed out of every building if he was to go after the IC record simply because fans would be bored to tears with him as champion.

As for The Undertaker, it's been said so many times before, the steak will not be broken.

It's so hard now because everything has been done.The vast majority of fans complain because wrestling isn't as good as when they started watching. The attitude era isn't coming back and it pisses people off. There's no need to bring it back because the WWE doesn't need the edge.

 

[My Couch Pulls Out But I Don't]

While I agree that I'd never EVER want to hear a wrestler talk about creative pre-determining wins and losses or wrestlers "refusing to do the job" ... I disagree that CM Punk has been breaking kayfabe to get over. Let's not confuse the usage of reality with the breaking of kayfabe.

When Punk claims that he has been held back by the powers in the back, he is using reality. He isn't claiming that the people in the back forced him to lose matches ... He is claiming that the guys in the back weren't putting him in a position to succeed (ie. Letting him headline 12 ppv's per year like John Cena does.) He is claiming that the people in the back weren't featuring him in the promotional material - as they do with Cena - and that's why Cena is considered a bigger "star" than he is.

Even if wrestling wasn't scripted, there would still be guys in the back pulling strings ... guys making title matches ... guys making sure certain guys were promoted over other guys.

Had creative not allowed Punk to speak about those string pullers, it would have been a huge mistake in my opinion. Most fans had been saying the same things for the past number of years, and it was a way for Punk to relate to the fans and to get over in a big way.

Most wrestling personalities have cited a belief that the best way to get over with the audience is to take something about yourself - to turn the volume up - and to present that version of yourself to the audience. This has worked with a number of stars in the past, and it has continued to work with Punk these past 7 months.

Triple H: Once a Connecticut snob, he used his real life friendship - and associations with Nash and Hall - to become an adolescent jackass of a character that prided himself on sophomoric humor. While the original gimmick was cartoonish and difficult to relate to, the new Triple H was seen as more authentic ... and he got over because people actually believed he was just being himself.

Mick Foley: He initially got over with the WWE audience when people were finally given a chance to see the real Mick Foley during a worked-shoot interview with Jim Ross in 1997. Instead of just being some deranged monster, Foley was explained as a man that put his body through hell in order to achieve a boyhood dream. It was the first time we could relate to him - and people started to cheer him because of it.

Vince McMahon: Some refer to him as the greatest heel in WWE history, but he turned from an aw-shucks announcer into Mr. McMahon over night by going into detail about Bret Hart and Montreal Screw Job.

John Cena: The rapper thing ... yea, that really was John Cena. He became a huge star by just turning up the volume on one of his qualities.

Edge: His angle with Lita solidified him as The Rated-R Superstar. He took a real life situation with Lita ... and was still using it to his advantage well after Lita left the company. His relationship with Vicky Guerrero was just an extension of it.

By the way - these are examples of how I think guys should become stars. Take something unique about that person ... something real about that person ... and turn it the hell up. If the guy is a foul-mouthed redneck, then let the guy be a foul-mouthed redneck. Stop coming up with a list of cookie-cutter gimmicks and then issuing those gimmicks to random guys via the dartboard method.

I don't want to see Wade Barrett walk to the ring with all divas unless that wrestler is a known playboy to the extent of Charlie Sheen.

I don't care if Cody Rhodes holds the IC Title for 10 years. That won't make me care about him.

I wouldn't give it a second thought if Drew McIntyre ended some old wrestler's career. It wouldn't make anyone think he's a bad ass because everyone knows it's a damn work.

Give me something authentic and reality based. That's how stars are made.

This guy said it better than anyone. CM Punk has yet to actually break kayfabe. And superstars need to come up with something about themselves and go with it. Need to find something the crowd can emotionally invest in.

 

[The Fig Lebowski]

I do think that the WWE creative should be more risky in terms of building up a new superstar. Shock factor creates buzz and gives talent an opportunity to shine in fresh storylines that value spontaneity in true sink or swim fashion.

Now I stress that it should be creative that takes the risk and not the superstar themselves. When Punk had his shoot interview, creative took a calculated risk knowing that this storyline was being handled by one of the company's premier promo guys and that if it backfired they had an easy out to dispel the talent. Bold idea that came through better than the E could have imagined.

I don't want to see the superstars doing crazy stuff in the Punk promo ballpark just for the sake of getting a headline. That would lead to an atmosphere of every man for himself where it's stars will be more apt to disregard storylines and company direction in order to further their own agenda. And we all know how involved Vince is with every iota of every show. He would not allow his billion dollar brand to fly blind.

WWE has an excellent roster of talent. Problem is they have not given average Joe Mark any reason to invest emotionally in them. But that's another topic entirely.

 

[dotty_84]

WWE don't need shocking moments all the time, it would grow stale. What they need to do is let guys deliver how they want to. Give a guy the idea what he has to say give him bulletpoints on what he has to say for instance...

Superstar A is having a fued with Superstar B. A cuts a promo in this promo he has to mention the incident with B, he's pissed at the oppertunity he lossed due to it, how he will get revenge, everything in between should come off the cuff. It's seperates the guys from being the same, most superstars sound the same, all the script writers, write the same style. You can barely deliver different from that. Sheamus, Barrett, McIntyre come across the same only their accents seperate them...shame as i see all 3 being very good talents.

Their is no lack of depth in the roster, it's just that WWE doesn't give most a chance and let the cream rise to the top they pick someone and force them on us.

 

[Fear&Loathing]

Great topic. Yes Freedom is the key to creativity if people don't be given freedom in their creatve control in WWE nothing ever really draws people in. I've noticed whenever something crazy happens and an individual has freedom in his creative control WWE gets more publicity. So Vince should give more individuals the green light to build their own characters and stop his product from becoming stale.

 

[PlayTheGame]

WWE don't need shocking moments all the time, it would grow stale. What they need to do is let guys deliver how they want to. Give a guy the idea what he has to say give him bulletpoints on what he has to say for instance...

Superstar A is having a fued with Superstar B. A cuts a promo in this promo he has to mention the incident with B, he's pissed at the oppertunity he lossed due to it, how he will get revenge, everything in between should come off the cuff. It's seperates the guys from being the same, most superstars sound the same, all the script writers, write the same style. You can barely deliver different from that. Sheamus, Barrett, McIntyre come across the same only their accents seperate them...shame as i see all 3 being very good talents.

Their is no lack of depth in the roster, it's just that WWE doesn't give most a chance and let the cream rise to the top they pick someone and force them on us.

Re-read your first sentence. Then think back to the late 90s', early 2000's. Now think about if that sentence makes sense. It absolutely doesn't. The Attitude Era was all about over the top surprises and shocking moment, and it was arguably one of the best times of wrestling, whether you personally liked it or not. TV ratings, sales, etc. will PROVE otherwise. So your argument has no merit whatsoever. And what you suggested they should do.. it'd probably be worse than the shit they currently do and put me to sleep even faster. It sounds like a GENERIC SEGMENT. Which is what they CURRENTLY do anyway. And, guess what, guys aren't getting over doing it that way. They need to break away from the mold. My evidence? Punk's promo broke away from the mold, was exciting, and was totally unique. It worked. They need more of that and less GENERICNESS. These guys aren't getting over with generic feuds and promos, they've tried for quite some time now. They need to change it up and take more chances. They did with the Punk promo, and they were heavily rewarded.

 

[bk555]

yes. yes. yes. yes. yes. Because this automatically makes someone relevant. It doesn't matter how long they are relevant for, but it gives them that slight window of opportunity to pounce on and make themselves relevant permanently rather than for a short period time. That's what Punk did and now he is competing with John Cena in top merch sales.

That one controversial moment is all it takes for the fans to jump on the bandwagon and spot the guy as true star.

The truth is building a wrestler into a mainstay name is just a lot harder now than it was before. Austin and Rock didnt need this controversial moment to break out on the scene. They needed the old fashion push and exposure. But that wont do squat anymore.

You need controversy to keep your product and you talent relevant. BOTTOMLINE.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

If everyone started speaking in worked-shoots, then nothing will be shocking anymore. It's the same reason why blood is so "HOLY SHIT" now, as well as certain swear words, when they were commonplace a few years ago. Sometimes, you have to understand that more isn't necessarily better.

 

[dotty_84]

Re-read your first sentence. Then think back to the late 90s', early 2000's. Now think about if that sentence makes sense.

Apologies, i wrote it poorly. I was meaning that people shouldn't get their stand out moment to be shocking. Storylines, yes i want that excitement but giving a guy week in and out a podium on their own to be shocking, i'm against.

 

[W_W_F]

I really don't think stuff like that happening all the time will work that well, eventually people are gonna realize what the WWE are pulling, and it at the end people may just end up complaining about it.

 

[AwesomeRko]

I do think shocking tactics should be used more often as like you said it generates interest and can provide the break out moment for a superstar if done correctly to get over. I think its important not to let it happen too often though I mean if deliberate out there shocks are happening on ever Raw it dilutes their importance and the impact they would have on people. If used correctly and sensibly then yeahh the WWE definently should attempt to incorporate more shock value into the programming than whats there at the moment.

As for the whole letting superstars have more creative control idea, I completely agree. I'm not saying let them do a completely improvised shoot a la Punk but enabling them to write and produce their own stuff in line with the storyline or basic framework of what a promo is supposed to achieve should be encouraged. All the best promo guys Rock, Austin, Foley, Y2J etc are so succesful on the mic as they often produce their own stuff and can therefore add their own unique personality into their work making them stand out from the rest of the roster. If superstars are encouraged to produce their own material then they are obviously going to have motivation to do well for the purpose of elevating their own career creating a healthy competiveness which should elevate promo standards through a desire to shine amongst superstars.

This is surely better than the whole roster delivering the same bland promos written by writers who have no real personal investment or emotional attachment to the superstar. The creative freedom given to many top superstars in the attitude era in terms of mic and character work is one of the prime reasons I believe the attitude era was so successful in creating authentic interesting and different characters which people cared about. The current roster definently has people with the potential to dp this with people liek Ziggler, Miz, Rhodes and Truth I'd like to see them given the chance.

 

[DirtyD79]

When you keep doing something outrageous just for the sake of doing something outrageous it loses it's effect. Too many wrestlers "shooting" starts to look stupid. You end up with Vince Russo's WCW. What they need to do is give the wrestlers a little more creative control in their promos. Tell them what important points need to be included and have them ad lib the rest.

Too many times promos sound the same or they don't sound at all like something he or she would say. A whitebread middle age sitcom writer isn't gonna know how a young hip black guy talks. And no self respecting badass is gonna say I'm gonna kick your butt instead of ass. The Divas all sound like valley girls calling each other fat or ugly.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

This idea wouldn't work out in the long run. You might create some buzz with one or two shoot promos, but as a few others have already said, the shoots would lose their shock value pretty quickly. The shock factor would quickly fade away, because you'll have so many guys cutting the same type of promo.

Also, depending on the material used, shoot promos can be shocking, but they have one major flaw: Everyone in the audience won't understand "insider wrestling" terms. You could lose the audience, because a lot of people won't be able to grasp the content of the promo. Imagine a wrestler cutting a promo about his adversaries "not selling his moves" or such and such is a "backstage politician, who cuts others down to get the top," or certain big name guys are holding everyone down, because they don't want to lose "their spot." A good majority of the audience will have no clue as to what the wrestler is trying to say, and the "breaking the 4th wall" stuff won't click with everyone.

Shoot promos could work, but only if they're used on a VERY limited basis. Trying to expose everyone to the real side of professional wrestling is something that could backfire in the long run, because you can't expect everyone to understand the behind the scenes stuff.

Also, Punk was pushed to the moon after his shoot promo. He became a two time WWE Champion, he main evented a handful of pay per views, and you can be sure he'll have a spot in the WWE Championship match at Wrestlemania 28. If Vince and WWE allow a wrestler to drop verbal bombs, as they use insider wrestling terms in their promos, then they probably have HUGE plans for that particular wrestler. But every wrestler isn't going to receive the monster push of a lifetime. It's just unrealistic, when you stop and think about it. A handful of guys cutting the same type of promo isn't going to provide a big spark for their careers, and you can't expect so many people to receive a Punk like push to the top.

 

[Police Penis Sucking Goat Fucker]

I think thats one of the main problems right now in WWE is that they don't let there wrestlers try to let them do what they think is best for there character to get over. Most wrestlers are probally too scared about getting into trouble or some just don't have the talent to do there own stuff. Everyone sounds too much like they are just reading off a script. When guys like CM Punk talk you know a lot of that is coming from his heart and froms him and not off what some script said. WWE needs to stop following so much from the script and let the wrestlers have fun with there character as for Undertakers streak there is only one wrestler on the roster that is qualified to end it and that is CM Punk but more on that is for a different thread to discuss

 

[JVel]

This actually ties in nicely with The Rock's recent comments about wrestlers not getting over.

How does one get over efficiently, esp in the way many of the older wrestlers did, without being able to be their own man? Many of the wrestlers (esp the heels) are all scripted exactly the same and have very very little difference in their personality or promos.

Wrestlers used to get over by wrestling ability and being able to pull off the characters their given. Well how do you expect heel A to get over when he has the same gimmick as heel B, C, D, and E on the roster? The Rock was given 10x the freedom many of todays guys get, which allowed him to help get himself over with the crowd. He tends to ignore (maybe since he hasn't been around in 7 years) that almost all of the guys now are basically spoonfed lines and have to go word for word off a script given to them by creative.

The WWE needs to start lightening up on the scripting and let some of the wrestlers cut more promos from the heart. We could really see some fresh character development and diversity, which would get a lot more wrestlers over.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The thing about Punk's promo is that it came about at just the right time and by just the right person. I don't think it's something that can just, metaphorically, mass produced by the WWE and used by WWE on any wrestler that they want.

Some of the most epic happenings in wrestling came about due to a combination of right place, right time, right wrestler(s) and even sheer luck. When the Four Horsemen were named, it came about realy by accident when Arn Anderson held up the four fingers and mentioned the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse during a promo. It wasn't something that was planned by bookers, it just happened on the spur of the moment. D-Generation X came about, initially, with Shawn Michaels & Triple H acting like delinquent frat boys that did or said controversial things. It worked for them partially because they had the talent to pull it off and partially because fans hadn't ever seen it done. There's no guarantee whatsoever that the WWE could try and do virtually the exact same thing with a couple of young guys and have it work.

It's virtually impossible to package controversy. WWE, WCW, TNA & ECW are four companies that have tried at various points and it just hasn't panned out. When they've tried, the result has been some of the worst wrestling segments ever put on television. It usually wound up feeling like a desperate attempt to get someone to pay attention while doing something shocking just for the sake of it, didn't matter if it was actually good.

Punk's worked shoot is one of those rare moments in time that just captures people's attention in wrestling. If you tried the same thing with...say...Curt Hawkins, it could blow up in WWE's face. You'd have jaded internet fans and dirtsheet writers coming out of the woodwork blasting WWE for being "unoriginal" or ragging on WWE Creative for being "creatively bankrupt" even if it actually came out well done. A big reason why it worked with Punk is because Punk is a talented enough guy to pull it off. He had dirtsheet writers, wrestling insiders & hardcore internet smarks wondering whether or not it was an actual shoot for a while. The simple fact is that not everybody, the vast majority of guys in fact, could have probably pulled that off just as there really wasn't anyone that could have pulled off Stone Cold's famous "Austin 3:16" reference after winning King of the Ring.

Just because something is outrageous, at least on the surface, doesn't mean that it's good or that it will get someone over. That's especially true in this day and age among internet fans.

 

[Sportsmen]

I agree that the wrestlers today need more freedom to entertain us. They need to set themselves apart from the other superstars.

I think the easiest way to do this is to go back to 80’s and 90’s gimmicks. The older gimmicks really separated a lot of wrestlers. Undertaker, Warrior, Mankind, Demolition, Rockers, The Big Boss Man, papa shango, tatanka, and Doink. All of these guys had a gimmick that made them standout regardless if they where a “good guy” or a “bad guy”. Gimmicks are the easiest way for people to standout.

Nowadays too many of the guys have plain gimmicks that do not set them apart for the fans.

I would love to allow all the guys more freedom on the mic to entertain us, but sadly I think many of them would not be able to cut a good promo.