Should the oldies/veterans go?

[GW_Hart86]

I thought I'd ask the question, I've been a wrestling fan most of my life and been lucky enough to watch the WWE grow from a small time promotion into the successful sold out arenas you see today.

However, something is annoying me these days when I watch WWE and it is the constant come-backs of veterans such as Triple H, The Undertaker, The Rock, Stone Cold etc, as great as they were....I'm kinda tired of it.

My opinion is that if wrestlers like The Undertaker and Triple H are not fit to compete regularly then they should hang up their boots for good. Too much reliance and attention is given to these oldies and legends of the ring to save the wrestling business from decline.

The people really need to move on from these characters and get behind the new up and coming talent. Current talent like The Miz, Christian, Edge, Cena, Orton, Shelton Benjamin (who i think is so under-rated), cm punk, jack swagger, del rio etc are all the future and each and every one of them has the potential to equal the same popularity their predecessors did if they have not done so already.

What you folks think?

 

[Richard]

No way, veterans and the oldies have a purpose man.

If there are no veterans, then when who is going to put over young guys and make them look good?

Lets say that Cody Rhodes pins Triple H clean, people will be saying "Wow, holy shit, Rhodes just pinned Triple H clean". But what if there is no veterans and it's just young guys. Nobody is going to give a shit if Cody Rhodes pins Trent Baretta clean. They serve a purpose and without Veterans being around, not many people would give a shit. Nobody wants to see WWE PPVs main evented by Jack Swagger vs Evan Bourne.

 

[NightmareMonster13]

No... Well, maybe. But only the ones that can't compete.
King is a good example. I love watching his matches (though few they are) but, if ever he can't continue in wrestling, then yes, he should quit. But right now, I can't wait for his match at Mania. Or any of his future matches 'cause he still entertaning.
Guys like Undertake and HHH can still go (Taker not as good as he once was, but he's as good once as he ever was - Toby Keith song). Both have a year or so left in them boots, though they may leave or stay longer than we like.

On the other hand, you've got guys like SCSA, who was amazing for his time, but really shouldn't be in wrestling anymore. Simply 'cause he can't do it anymore.

 

[Rp0622]

Hmm no oldies would mean no triple h vs taker and the rock hosting which would make wrestlemania just another episode of raw.

 

[Mac Attack]

They should go, but in moderation. If the WWE decides to slowly remove veterans from the ring I think the overall priduct will beneift. I'm talking about a timetable of about now to the Summerslam after Wrestlemania 28. i know that this is a long period but I would like to see the veterans slowly disappear instead of a huge hole to fill if they were aall to leave at once. I think with the proper spacing and well made storylines you cold have guys leave and not really leave to much of a hole. The key word is moderation as you want to space out when these stars leave. I think we will see the likes of Edge, Triple H, Undertaker, Kane, Mysterio, Big Show, maybe a few others leave. This would be in order to make the other superstars that WWE has look better and really force WWE to make stars out of the new generation.

 

[healyz84]

No way, veterans and the oldies have a purpose man.

If there are no veterans, then when who is going to put over young guys and make them look good?

I wish the veterans had this purpose, but quite frankly, there is just not enough of them doing this for this to be the case. Sure you have Mysterio deciding that he wants to face Rhodes at Mania to help put him over, by Mysterio is not the norm, he was never that guy who was constantly at the top of the wwe, always in the main event and getting title after title. Therefore Mysterio gets it.

But in the present situation of the wwe for example, the veterans are either taking time away from the current young group, or they are going to squash the young up and comers. For instance, HHH vs Taker. Is it a big-time hyped match between 2 of the greatest? Yes! Will the match be an abysmal failure? More than likely. The main reason is because these 2 have wrestled probably a combined dozen times over the last calender year, yet in the most important time of the year, they are getting 10-20 mins of tv time a week to talk, or in HHH's case, to beat up and squash talented young guys like Sheamus or Dibiase. These guys are doing nothing for the current product, and after mania they won't be around again, so time I feel is being wasted.

Then you have guys like the Rock who is crapping all over Cena and Miz, and is promo's are just proving more over that they are not at the Rock's level. Can they compete to the Rock's level, maybe they never can? But now we know the weaknesses of these guys compared to the Rock. And more than likely, this will lead to Cena and the Miz being destroyed by the Rock at Mania, and then another match between Cena and the Rock where the Rock will destroy Cena again. And lets not get into Stone Cold, who is going to squash the hell out of Cole and Swagger at Mania.

All in all, these older guys are not only stealing the light of the younger talent, but making these guys look like crap. Is it the new guys faults, are they just not good enough? Not necessarily, because you still have the politics, so the vets call the booking shots. The new talent as well are not allowed to free lance as much, so it hurts their promo skills. Plus, being a PG show also inhibits the newer, younger talent, as they become restricted in what they can say or do.

So the older vets should be doing what they can to put the young guys forward, because quite frankly in a year or 2 none of these guys will be around. But for the most part (Mysterio and Edge aside) this is just not going to happen.

 

[Skairipa Matrix]

depends on the legend your talking about...ill bring up the 4 names u brought up which is the rock,stone cold,undertaker and triple h....

Stone Cold: hes only around right now because hes the host of tough enough its not like hes on raw every week in matches he has "hung up his boots" hes just the host of tough enough i see nothing wrong with him coming around once in awhile it cant hurt anything....right?

The Rock: when the rock came back i was shocked but i was marking out so much! the rock is 1 of my all-time favorites and im loving the battle of words between him & cena & sumwhat the miz its good (minus the "knockout blow" from cena ) but if he was to come back and whip cena's candy ass all over the ring for 1 more match id have no problem at all with this!

Triple H: i like seeing triple h around he was gone for almost a year for a combo of shooting a movie & being hurt but when he came back the fans loved it as long as hes OUT of the title picture i like having him around because he could be good for putting the young guys over...i mean lets look at someone like Ted Dibiase (if wwe made him more then a jobber!) or cody rhodes if they beat Triple H cleanly it makes them look really strong and it could lead to them becoming main eventers or even top mid carders which would be good.

Undertaker: great legend, 1 of the best to ever lace up his boots, BUT i really dont think he should be wrestling much anymore hes ALWAYS hurt it seems like and i really hate how he vanishes after Wrestlemania then when he comes back all of sudden hes in the title picture! it makes no sense and i dont think its right i was SHOCKED kane escaped the fued with the title but that was only because undertaker got hurt....again but IF undertaker doesnt retire he needs to be out of the title picture and hopefully next year at wrestlemania have his last match ever and id like to see him put over a young guy like Drew McIntyre on the way out but doubt it will happen. but in all honestly Undertaker is hurt alot in the last few years it seems so i personally think the guy needs to hang up his boots and retire...he doesnt need money so he should stay home and relax enjoy his time of retirement with Michelle McCool

 

[DeathClutch]

Simply NO!

Triple H CAN wrestle to a high quality that allows him to compete at 41 years of age, thou I believe his in ring career will be over by the time WrestleMania 30 comes, I generally believe he'll take a part time wrestling role, maybe wrestle at the big PPV's and the odd small one, Undertaker can't wrestle? didn't you not watch his two HBK matches from 2009 and 2010? TWO guys wrestled not ONE, and taker has shown HE CAN wrestle thou I believe he'll continue his part time wrestling gig.

ROCK AND AUSTIN? last time I saw The Rock he was kicking some ass and didn't look ring worn, so give him time to get rid of any ring rust then why not have Rock/Cena? after all Hogan give Rock the torch why not let Rock hand it down? and Austin is in for the TE gig, he'll not wrestle again unless it's a tag match at best.

 

[doorag]

Like JR would say, " It's about putting asses every 18 inches." Till these names don't help fill arenas and make money for Vince, you can forget about it.

 

[blackmetalbuick]

Hard to really say. Yes in a way I think we can't keep relying on some of these same guys forever. But at the same time they do serve a purpose, especially when there seems to be some trouble getting some of the newer talent truly to that main event level. In a way it almost seems like we are right on track. We've established some newer stars in the past few years, but when it comes to something like a WrestleMania, we still seemingly need the extra excitement of having an older star involved. Maybe after a year or two more of these "assists" from big names showing up once in a while, the current younger roster will finally be ready to take over. Some of these older stars will have just enough left in them for a few big matches to put over the newer talent, and then they can finally hang up the boots. But yeah, like it or not, without the aid of cryogenics or cyborg technology, the WWE is going to need to figure out how to remain relevent without your Undertakers and Rocks having to make returns just to make things interesting. Time for Sheamus, Morrison, Miz, and all the others to really step it up and become the new faces of the WWE.

 

[The Mighty Tiger]

I thought I'd ask the question, I've been a wrestling fan most of my life and been lucky enough to watch the WWE grow from a small time promotion into the successful sold out arenas you see today.

However, something is annoying me these days when I watch WWE and it is the constant come-backs of veterans such as Triple H, The Undertaker, The Rock, Stone Cold etc, as great as they were....I'm kinda tired of it.

My opinion is that if wrestlers like The Undertaker and Triple H are not fit to compete regularly then they should hang up their boots for good. Too much reliance and attention is given to these oldies and legends of the ring to save the wrestling business from decline.

The people really need to move on from these characters and get behind the new up and coming talent. Current talent like The Miz, Christian, Edge, Cena, Orton, Shelton Benjamin (who i think is so under-rated), cm punk, jack swagger, del rio etc are all the future and each and every one of them has the potential to equal the same popularity their predecessors did if they have not done so already.

What you folks think?

Why do you feel like Taker & HHH need to wrestle full schedules, they have paid the price to be where there at so if they want more time off no matter what the reason then they should get it. If it's not for the legends the new guys & girls wouldn't have a stage to perform on in the 1st place. Also everybody you mentioned can still go except Austin but guess what Austin brings in ratings so thats only benefits the new talent cause old fans would see how far some of them have came & maybe will get behind them. Now if legends like Rock/Austin/Taker/HHH & others never came back then old viewers may never see what the new guys are about. So not only are the legends helpful even if they wrestle or not but they have a right to come back & entertain an any form they choose cause they help make a way for the young superstars. Now I do agree w/u if they can't go in the ring then they shouldn't be wrestling, but the guys from your list are fine & still can wrestle great matches on a light schedule. If they where there full time then they would be taking away from the younger guys but them popping in & out only helps ratings & bring in viewers. Not to mention you can't expect for viewers to get behind young talent when most of them are underperforming compared to the legends, when they get there weight up so to speak then ppl will be behind them 100%, but even then still the ppl wont mind seeing legends ever once in a while.

 

[mayankeagle]

I think guys like Taker and HHH are smart enough to know when to retire and call it quits. They won't go on for as long as Hogan or Flair did, tarnishing their own legacy.

Yes it is true that Taker and HHH work a part-time schedule and are often out for months injured, but as long as they can give decent stories/ matches while they are here, I don't think we are anyone to tell them to retire. I mean, somebody could've brought this topic up even 2 years back and if they were right, then we wouldn't have seen the Taker vs HBK gems at Mania 25 and 26.

So I think as long as they can give good matches at big events, they should stay there.

 

[sTyLnK]

The way I look at it is enjoy it while it lasts. Nothing lasts forever. Steve Austin doesn't wrestle anymore, Triple H and Taker are retiring soon and Rocky may or may not be wrestling again.

Like it or not the wrestlers you mentioned (with the exception of Christian and Edge that you listed) are the future and we will be seeing them even more once more vets start to retire. I'm getting pretty sick of a few of the wrestlers already though so that's not a good sign. haha.

 

[Azane]

Veterans in moderation = Ratings.
Rock, Stone Cold, Trish, JBL, etc... Have made a HUGE impact on RAW's ratings and attendance, having them make appearances in moderation is great.

Veterans sticking around = Stagnation.
TNA has a dream team roster if this was 1998. Having Hogan, Ric Flair, Sting, Dudleys etc.... but they don't bring any more ratings than the random impacts from 2 or 3 years ago, so basically veterans like this are just soaking up money from the company.

Veterans who haven't retired = Wild Card.
Undertaker or Trips, your specific example can still draw, Undertaker only working a few PPV cycles a year is great, he doesn't have to break his body or compete year round, but he still can hang around Wrestlemania time and draw, Triple H can fill a face or heel role at the drop of a dime, and he has a unique oppurtunity to play a GM type role if he ever feels he can't compete regularly (he looks great though, I bet he has a couple more years in him easily as a regular).

Even people who didn't watch regularly for the last 20 years of wrestling tune in to watch the Rock or Stone Cold make an appearance here or there, but if they stuck around for a bit, their inability to wrestle regularly would catch up, Look at Bret Hart, ton of respect for him, but his 2nd coming got ridiculously stale near the end.

one of my pet peaves is when people mention someone like Edge as being current talent, and not a veteran, Just because he didn't get his 22 title reigns until a few years ago, hes been wrestling since 1992, He's not a spring chicken, and he's had some near career ending injuries that make him 1 step away from Taker (who just celebrated his 46 Birthday this week)

My main point, is that Veterans are a great draw, and a treat for the fans.... but like any other treat, their effect wears off if they're shoved in our faces. (Rock taping months worth of satellite promos won't be interesting if he sticks around past WM)

 

[xsKiitz]

The WWE has to stop fully relying on veterans. This is another why Miz HAS to win at Mania. There aren't enough established young-blood at the moment to fill in for the oldies. In a few years time there will be no Undertaker, Trips, HBK, Mysterio or Edge, so right now we have Cena, Orton, Punk, Barrett (getting there), and one more push for Miz and he'll be there.

Relying on Rock and Austin to keep this Mania alive really isn't the way to go.

-

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

I thought I'd ask the question, I've been a wrestling fan most of my life and been lucky enough to watch the WWE grow from a small time promotion into the successful sold out arenas you see today.

However, something is annoying me these days when I watch WWE and it is the constant come-backs of veterans such as Triple H, The Undertaker, The Rock, Stone Cold etc, as great as they were....I'm kinda tired of it.

My opinion is that if wrestlers like The Undertaker and Triple H are not fit to compete regularly then they should hang up their boots for good. Too much reliance and attention is given to these oldies and legends of the ring to save the wrestling business from decline.

The people really need to move on from these characters and get behind the new up and coming talent. Current talent like The Miz, Christian, Edge, Cena, Orton, Shelton Benjamin (who i think is so under-rated), cm punk, jack swagger, del rio etc are all the future and each and every one of them has the potential to equal the same popularity their predecessors did if they have not done so already.

What you folks think?

Just want to clear up a couple things regarding the guys you mentioned. Edge is a multiple time world champion and there have been rumours of him retiring in the next year or 2. While Christian hasn't won either the WHC or WWE titles he too is getting on in age so I don't know if he can really be classed as up-and-coming talent. Also, Shelton Benjamin isn't working for the WWE anymore, though I believe he did work a dark match recently.
I'd even say that Cena and Orton have had enough title runs despite their age. I mean, the only further achievements they could accomplish would be to over-take the 15 title mark but by doing so could be holding back the younger talent.

This time of year isn't really the best time to complain about the veterans with Mania on the horizon. To get the maximum number of buys, it makes sense to bring out/back the big guns. This offers the younger guys a chance to make their name at grandest stage of all. Sure, people will buy the PPV to see the title matches and the streak match, but those are not the only matches on the card.

There have been many threads arguing back and forth whether HHH has held back or put over talent, and valid arguments can be made either way, but I don't think you can judge what he will or won't do based on his dominating run as champ during his Evolution phase. He's helped Seamus make his mark and seems set to have a prominent backstage role so in due time I believe he'll help more younger talent.

The older talent will eventually leave, but the up and comers need to be able to step up to the mark or will be left in the lurch.

 

[Savior with faith 101]

The Rock is the perfect example of how to use a Legend well. Hes not been on TV too much, he has shown that people need to up their game and people like Cena and Miz have both spoken out saying that it has given the whole locker room a lift. When they are kept off tv for long enough their returns actually mean something.

Taker on the other hand is the opposite, his returns have become so regular that its as predictable as WWE promoting the fact their the longest running televised show on tv!!! I for one would like to see Undertaker stay off tv PAST Wrestlemania 28, have him rest up for 18 months and then bring him back, by which point people will be excited about his return having not seen him for so long. Look at what a year off did for HHH's return, his reaction was 10times louder than Takers and his return was somewhat expected too.

But in summary, with the Legends, keep them off tv long enough and their returns actually become meaningful. Have them turn up every few months and people will soon lose interest...

 

[BC1978]

It really depends on the Veterans and what they're doing.

HHH, Undertaker can still go and shouldn't be jobbed out.
Hogan and Flair on the other hand need to go.... Putting them in a dream match (Hogan v. Austin or Hogan v. Cena or Flair v. Miz or Flair vs. Punk or Orton. would be fine.) But they should really go unless they're okay with taking the role of jobber to the stars.

 

[stasheroo]

I think there's a fine line between contributing and being a detriment.

I've been a wrestling fan for years and love nostalgia as much as anyone, but not at the expense of those who will be contributing for years to come.

While I think the Rock/Cena 'feud' is intruiging, if in fact it leads to an in-ring match, I am not happy that the Miz and the WWE Championship have become an afterthought in the process.

I was happy to see Austin return, and also happy that he did his Stunner bit on a non-competing talent in JBL rather than follow the Son-in-Law's example of making young talent look terrible to boost himself.

I never liked it when a Stone Cold who was obviously not competing would come down and embarrass those folks who could compete.

So, in short, I think it's great to see older veterans/Legends return, but not at the expense of those who can and will be entertaining me each week for years to come.

 

[JerryLawlerMark]

I don't think so. The legends are here to elevate younger stars in the youth movement.

If you book it correctly, they could become main event stars. I would have Corre attack Booker T or something like that to generate a lot of heat and further their push.

 

[GW_Hart86]

Yea, some really interesting opinions there. I still bellieve that The Rock and HHH can do some good, but I'm still of the opinion that they have had their day. HHH I think now that he's back from his time out, if he can still compete at the highest level then why not keep him a bit longer, only time will tell.

However, I think it's time that these veterans looked at passing the torch to younger stars which is why I strongly agree with the post that stated "That's why The Miz has to win at Wrestlemania!"

HHH and The Rock should still be wrestling as long as they can still regularly perform at a high standard. I'd like to see them losing to new talent in the next 2 or 3 years so that raises the young talent's profile a lot more.

As for The Undertaker, as much as I love the guy and as great/world class as he is....it's time to go for him. Yea he's earned his stay but his body don't have it anymore. He is well and truly burned out in terms of in-ring ability. I'm sure he'll give us a great performance at Mania but that'll be it until next year if you see where i'm coming from.

I do agree it is important to have veterans in the WWE, but they have to be used in the right way I think.

 

[wushady]

Every wrestling company needs some veterans on their roster. If there wasn't any veterans there would be no one to put over younger talent. Plus veterans attract viewers to a certain extent. Fans wouldn't want to watch especially not want to pay to see a bunch of rookies and unknown talent. I believe that if the wrestler is over forty and can still go there's no reason to get rid of them. As long as their not always the world champion, the younger guys should be the champion in my opinion.

 

[deforty]

Why do you think these guys are all showing up? To sell WM. They needed the Rock to get the buys. This years WM would have gone down as the lowest ticket sales and ppv buys without the Rock, HHH, and UT. I personally had no interest in WM other than Cole/Lawler until The Rock showed up. I want to kind of see it now, but these young guys need a push from these guys and I think they all serve a purpose in helping them.

 

[GW_Hart86]

absolutely, that's what I'm more or less saying. The WWE needs veterans, but I don't want to see the likes of HHH and The Rock coming back and winning everything all over again and kicking ass then retiring at the end of it....they need to lose to the younger talent and at Mania, there is a perfect opportunity with The Miz. I hope he wins.

 

[MizterColemine]

No way, veterans and the oldies have a purpose man.

If there are no veterans, then when who is going to put over young guys and make them look good?

Lets say that Cody Rhodes pins Triple H clean, people will be saying "Wow, holy shit, Rhodes just pinned Triple H clean". But what if there is no veterans and it's just young guys. Nobody is going to give a shit if Cody Rhodes pins Trent Baretta clean. They serve a purpose and without Veterans being around, not many people would give a shit. Nobody wants to see WWE PPVs main evented by Jack Swagger vs Evan Bourne.

I don't necessarily agree that this is all a bad thing. I think having no one to "put the young guys over" would bring the WWE back to a place where they had to rely on old school style booking such as long term rivalries and long title reigns to establish a superstar as a mainstay. Cody Rhodes pinning Triple H is kind of a quick solution and doesn't make anything permanent. For instance if he beat Triple H for the title, and then lost to Cena the next day he'd be back at square one. Case in point - Sheamus.
But if Wade Barrett had a 9 or 10 month reign with the US title and then won the Royal Rumber in 2012, he could easily solidify himself as the top heel of 2010-2015. Such as Triple H from 00-05 or Orton from 05-10. Or if Del Rio could win and hold the World Title for more a while. He could be the man.
The current era of midcarders are bouncing up and down the ladder wayy too rapidly in order to make room for these "oldies" and then to make up for their absence they're built back up again, only to fall back down. WWE booking needs a little permanence, and I'm not talking about WWE Legends permanently being seasonal wrestlers.