• Xenforo Cloud has scheduled an upgrade to XenForo version 2.2.16. This will take place on or shortly after the following date and time: Jul 05, 2024 at 05:00 PM (PT) There shouldn't be any downtime, as it's just a maintenance release. More info here

Should Mr Perfect have been WWE Champion?

MINISTRYrising

Championship Contender
So, should Mr Perfect have Been WWE Champion. In my opinion he should have been a mulitiple time WWE Champion. He had everything, the look, the in ring abilitie, the mic skills, he was simply PERFECT. but what do you think.
 
Nope I don't think so and I hate to say that as I'm a huge Perfect fan. It's easy for us to say he should have been now, given that Jack Swagger has held the World Title, but look at the way the WWF was back then. It was insanely hard to get to the top and mostly it was just faces.

I mean from Wrestlemania 1-7, which would have been Perfect's prime era before his injury, the list of people who had the title is Hogan, Andre, Macho, Warrior and Slaughter. Andre didn't really have it, Slaughter had it for 3 months and the rest of the time it was a long term face champion, with Macho turning towards the end of his run of course. There was very little room at the top for heels, I mean this was the era that had DiBiase, Roberts and Rude as well.

We can say that Perfect should have held the title in this time but you can't argue with the business Vince made in these seven years.

Perfect then gets his injury and is never really the same again. The only time after this that he could possibly have held the title would be in a feud with Bret in 1993, but by that stage I think his time had come and pass to be the top guy in a company.
 
At the time he was around, no. No-one would have taken him as a credible champion in the era of the big men. There was an era between 94-98 that he maybe could have taken the role but he was essentially finished by that point.
 
If he never got injured then he would have. He was being groomed for the world title, but stuff like this happens.
 
YES! YES! YES!

I think Curt Henig is #1 on the list of guys who SHOULD have been WWE Champion!

He had it ALL & was entertaining in EVERY aspect of his work.
Honestly I thought he would have made a much better champion than Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, Warrior, Slaughter, Sid, Yoko, even Undertaker in the early days.

I think Mr. Perfect as WWE Champion facing the likes of Undertaker, Bret, Shawn, Savage, Owen, Bulldog, Rude, Yoko, Luger, etc. would have all been GREAT!
 
Yes and I don't buy this argument that he wouldn't be credible when the big guys were around, Bret Hart managed it and was credible. Hennig had the right feel to him and had Heenan to make him a credible heel champion going up against either Bret, Warrior, Savage or Hogan. Heel tactics to win the title against the babyface champion and proclaim himself the Perfect Champion. With a manager like Heenan it would be very easy to do. Its the basics of the face/heel feud. With that he should have been in a main event at Wrestlemania and losing to the top face at the time. He was very misused in that sense
 
Like I said in the Jake Roberts thread, there are some guys who shouldn't have been world champion or even main eventers in the scheme of things. Curt Hennig was the best Upper Midcard guy WWE had for that era, but he was never going to make that big step up to the main event. He had two "dry runs" in 1990, against Hogan and Warrior when they both had the belt. He was a credible opponent for Warrior, but never looked in any danger of being given the World belt.

Had he not gotten hurt, I am still not convinced he would have gotten the push over Bret Hart, as the Hitman had the fan support/fan mail stuff that Vince had long recognised. Hennig would have needed a specific push, related to a heel champion like Rick Rude and Heenan for it to stick. Should that have happened? Absolutely, Rude definitely should have beaten Warrior for the belt and Perfect should have challenged... but WWF saw things differently.

I have all the respect for Hennig in the world as one of the top 10 guys of his era, unlike a Jake Roberts who phoned in the last 2 years of his WWF run. He deserved a lot more than he got pre-injury.

But it's also hard to ignore that Hennig was also one of the guys who sat out on a Lloyds of London policy longer than they needed to, just to keep collecting. Like Animal or Shawn, he could have returned earlier than he did, but he was happy getting a cheque from WWE in Flair's corner and collecting on the policy. So that affected his chances.

On balance you have to remember that he WAS a world champion, in fact the last AWA champion to actually mean anything, so for him to have achieved that was perhaps enough for him.
 
I can say yes he should of because he was a top heel in his prime and he should of gotten an even bigger push as a top heel in the company and why did he not have the championship he was a main eventer no doubt about it he should of held the world title instead of guys like the ultimate warrior and sgt slaughter beacuse lets face it the warrior was just a big bodied guy that Vince liked and slaughter was at the ned of his carrer and vince for some reason skipped Mr. Perfect millions of times and he could of built an even better feud with hogan.
 
the only time i could see mr perfect having been world champion is if ric flair never came to the wwf in 1991, he wouldve filled flairs spot as champ for sure
 
Curt Hennig had back injuries that sidelined him for a long time, and that may be the biggest reason he never got to be WWF World Champion. Not only was he injured, but he was out of the ring for so long that they might have considered it too risky to put the big belt on him once he came back. However, he did get a run as AWA World Champion before he got to WWF, so it can be said that he was a former world champ, unlike some other well-deserving guys.
 
He's my favorite but since he couldn't shake receive the push it wasn't possible. WWF had Hogan, Warrior, Savage, Andre, Dibiese and more. NWA WCW had Ric Flair, Lex Lugar, Great Muta, Sting, Dusty Rhodes and more.

In that list of wrestler only one of them wasn't a World Champion. :-/ Mr. Perfect would had been a Perfect champion because of his gimmick but having the AWA title is good enough for me. WORLD CHAMPION Curt Hennig

CurtHennig.jpg
 
I could see Perfect having been booked as champion in late 1992 if Vince didnt want to get the belt off of Flair so fast. I think Flair/Perfect deserved a big match before the blow off on RAW. Flair never loses to Bret and the Flair/Perfect angle still goes down the same except Perfect takes the title off of Flair on SNME before Survivor Series. Perfect drops the title to Flair at a house show. Bret takes the title off of Flair at Survivor Series. This would be done simply to get a payoff from the big Flair/Perfect split and to get a build up to Bret/Flair. I do think Flair/Perfect should have a had a huge ending to their story since their alliance was the focal point of the show for a year. It would have been fitting for Perfect to end his run as champion. Instead Perfect ends Flairs WWF run but by then nobody had cared as Flair fell of the map.

This idea would have been nice to see but I think it went down the right way. Brets first run was, IMO, his best and this would have shortened it.

Other then this I couldnt see a time where Perfect would have had a legit shot to walk away champion
 
Perfect's injury was in effect at that time, if he was going to be champion he needed to have not had that injury. Afterwards he was never the same in the ring. Flair was already working notice by then, after not being booked at Summerslam he and Vince agreed he would be leaving in the new year. There was only ever one window for Hennig, the changeover between Hogan and Warrior...
 
My first thought is to say yes he should have, but then I remembered when he had matches against Hogan while Hogan was champ. I never believed Mr. perfect would beat Hogan. he just didn't look to be on the same level. Now he definitely could have gotten Bret Hart's push, but like another poster said, Bret was really over with the fans at that time. I am not sure if Perfect could have even filled that spot as a heel. It's easy to look back and say they should have been champ, but at the time I really don't think it would have worked.
 
You can rationalize it however you want. Different eras, hard to get over, etc. The fact is Mr. Perfect was a great character that had the complete package to be WWF/WWE Champion. Why guys like Diesel and Sid became WWF Champion when others like Scott Hall & Mr. Perfect didn't is anyone's guess. Maybe it was because McMahon was still stuck in big man mentality. Even so, guys like Shawn & Bret were having good enough matches to be WWF Champion. Like I said, no justification can be given for Curt Hennig NOT to have been the WWF Champ.
 
At 6ft 6" you can never say Hall was not a big man!

I'm afraid ITfactor it can be rationalised that Hennig was never WWF champion and blaming "big man itis" isn't it. Hennig wasn't ready in 1990 and by the time he might have been his back was too damaged. Then the 3 years off to claim on an insurance policy when he could have been working (albiet for less than the payouts). Those cost him a WWF title. Even in 2002 when he came back, he could STILL have just about managed it if he could stop partying... he didn't, he got canned... sadly the rest is history.

All the talent in the world doesn't make it a right nor size, for every guy like Sid who got the belt there were other big guys who didn't like Quake, Bossman, Crush or Ahmed Johnson. Perfect wasn't the right fit at the right time and he epic failed by taking so long out when he didn't need to. Vince was never going to pick a severely injured Perfect over a fit and over Bret...
 
I imagine that Mr. Perfect and Bret Hart would have had a great rivalry over the title, had Curt Hennig not been injured around that time. Bret won the IC title off Curt, and this would have been a great stepping stone towards an intense feud over the heavyweight title. Bret's first run as champ didn't exactly set the world on fire, but it was more for a lack of talent that matched his caliber. Remember that Bret was put into feuds against the big guys for the most part. He won the title off of Flair, and since Flair was gone after that, Perfect would have been a great person to step in after that. Anyhow, this is fantasy booking, and a case of what could have been. Perfect could also have been a great bug in Owen's ear to fuel the fire between the Hart Brothers during that amazing feud as well.
 
At 6ft 6" you can never say Hall was not a big man!

Never said Hall wasn't a "big man", princess. Twist the panties outta the wad!

I'm afraid ITfactor it can be rationalised that Hennig was never WWF champion and blaming "big man itis" isn't it. Hennig wasn't ready in 1990 and by the time he might have been his back was too damaged. Then the 3 years off to claim on an insurance policy when he could have been working (albiet for less than the payouts). Those cost him a WWF title. Even in 2002 when he came back, he could STILL have just about managed it if he could stop partying... he didn't, he got canned... sadly the rest is history.

Honestly, I could care two shits less about the backstage political bullshit. Curt Hennig was a vastly talented guy who could both work a crowd and tell a story inside the ring. Something that big men like Diesel & Sid could not do, yet were both champions. How you cannot see that logic is idiotic. Hennig was way more talented on his worst days than either of those overrated untalented and mediocre guys ever were on their best. Obviously, you aren't judging by talent or merit, so this isn't the topic for you. Why you chose to even respond to this topic when being anti-Hennig is something to be questioned.

All the talent in the world doesn't make it a right nor size, for every guy like Sid who got the belt there were other big guys who didn't like Quake, Bossman, Crush or Ahmed Johnson. Perfect wasn't the right fit at the right time and he epic failed by taking so long out when he didn't need to. Vince was never going to pick a severely injured Perfect over a fit and over Bret...

Not the right fit? Is that the best you've got? That's laughable at best and not a valid reason to justify not making someone your champion. I never said all big men were going to be made champion, nor that they deserved it. I said Vince was stuck in big man mentality back then. There were a few exceptions, which was why I included Bret & Shawn. Saying Mr. Perfect wasn't the right fit is just an easy excuse. Look at how well his character progressed and how over he was. Anyone to ever talk about Hennig in their books or in various interviews always point out how great he was and how easy it was to work with him. Also, I never said Perfect should've been chosen over a "fit and over Bret". What I did say was that during the time Perfect was continuing to rise, he should've been made champion. Picking a time in which Curt was injured is a twisting of logic to fit your desired arguement. It's easy to claim Hennig should not have been champion injured. What about all the time he was healthy? How can him NOT becoming WWF Champion have been justified then? Let me guess, he wasn't "over enough"? Your lack of logic is utterly astounding and I find it funny when fans insert their opinion as if it were fact. As if you saying Hennig wasn't a "right fit" were how it was. I can understand certain fans will not like certain guys. It just seems like your using certain biases against Hennig as justification for not making him champion. Like that negates his talent.
 
Honestly, I could care two shits less about the backstage political bullshit. Curt Hennig was a vastly talented guy who could both work a crowd and tell a story inside the ring. Something that big men like Diesel & Sid could not do, yet were both champions. How you cannot see that logic is idiotic. Hennig was way more talented on his worst days than either of those overrated untalented and mediocre guys ever were on their best. Obviously, you aren't judging by talent or merit, so this isn't the topic for you. Why you chose to even respond to this topic when being anti-Hennig is something to be questioned.

Henning may have been more talented than Nash or Sid when it came to quickly and swiftly executing moves but since when did that mean someone should be champion? Mr. Perfect was not an active WWF wrestler when Diesel and Sid were champion so I don't see how their reigns are relevant. If you want Perfect to have been champion you're going to need to take away from the reign of Hogan, Warrior, or Hart.

Not the right fit? Is that the best you've got? That's laughable at best and not a valid reason to justify not making someone your champion.

I can only assume you're criticizing a vague response because someone not being the right fit as champion is absolutley a good reason not to make them champion. In fact it's the most logical reason.

I never said all big men were going to be made champion, nor that they deserved it. I said Vince was stuck in big man mentality back then. There were a few exceptions, which was why I included Bret & Shawn.

What about Savage? He wasn't a big man but he got two title reigns, one that lasted a full year. The theory that Vince wanted big men as champion is valid but also blown out of proportion. Savage proved that popularity and charisma is more important than size.

Saying Mr. Perfect wasn't the right fit is just an easy excuse. Look at how well his character progressed and how over he was. Anyone to ever talk about Hennig in their books or in various interviews always point out how great he was and how easy it was to work with him.

That's great but I don't see how it's relevant to determining the champion.

Also, I never said Perfect should've been chosen over a "fit and over Bret". What I did say was that during the time Perfect was continuing to rise, he should've been made champion. Picking a time in which Curt was injured is a twisting of logic to fit your desired arguement. It's easy to claim Hennig should not have been champion injured. What about all the time he was healthy?

If he didn't get injured he may very well have become champion eventually. The timing wasn't right for him. It's not like he was snubbed throughout his career. Far from it. He was one of the better IC champions during the Hulkamania era. Don't underestimate that. Despite not winning the world title Perfect enjoyed his share of success.

How can him NOT becoming WWF Champion have been justified then? Let me guess, he wasn't "over enough"?

He wasn't over nearly as much as Hogan and Warrior. If Perfect were wrestling instead of announcing in 1996 he might have gotten a brief reign trading the title back and forth with Michaels. He just wasn't going to get it over Hogan or Warrior.

Your lack of logic is utterly astounding and I find it funny when fans insert their opinion as if it were fact. As if you saying Hennig wasn't a "right fit" were how it was. I can understand certain fans will not like certain guys. It just seems like your using certain biases against Hennig as justification for not making him champion. Like that negates his talent

No offense, I have nothing against you, but it seems like you're the one presenting opinion as fact. I don't think anyone has a bias against Henning but I think you probably have a bias toward him. If he's one of your favorites that's great. I liked him too. He was awesome, no doubt. I just think your feelings as a fan appear to be clouding your judgment. Perfect had a great WWF career as a two time IC champion. That's more than a lot of guys from his era got.

I think Mr. Perfect could have been a good world champion. That doesn't mean he should have been world champion given all the factors. I hope you understand the difference.
 
At the time no. If his career would have been longer yes. I also think he would of been. When he was in wrestling they just didnt hand the belts to everyone like they do now. Look at HBK and then you have people like Sheamus and Orton. So in time I think he would of been champ he was one of the greats.
 
Henning may have been more talented than Nash or Sid when it came to quickly and swiftly executing moves but since when did that mean someone should be champion? Mr. Perfect was not an active WWF wrestler when Diesel and Sid were champion so I don't see how their reigns are relevant. If you want Perfect to have been champion you're going to need to take away from the reign of Hogan, Warrior, or Hart.

I'm not saying that these big men aren't talented. These big men do have their appeal to audiences and their own positive attributes, no doubt. What I am sayin' is that Mr. Perfect was a great talent who should've been champion at some point[before the injury, which most people are twisting to make it seem as if I'm talking about Hennig while injured being champion. Taking it outta context]. :lmao: Glad to see you have a good sense of humor including Warrior in that list. That's proving my main merit vs. big man basis for debate for me. Warrior was perhaps the worst talent[and I use that word very loosely here] to ever wear the WWF Title and he certainly could've been overlooked at the time he was made champion in favor of Hennig.



I can only assume you're criticizing a vague response because someone not being the right fit as champion is absolutley a good reason not to make them champion. In fact it's the most logical reason.

People see things how they want to. I'm not tryin' to change that, nor would I want that. My logic is that a consistently great performer like Hennig should've been WWF Champion at some point. The mere fact that he was never made champion is a travesty in my view. I'm sure you and others may not agree, which is fine. Though I disagree that it's a logical reason hardly. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.



What about Savage? He wasn't a big man but he got two title reigns, one that lasted a full year. The theory that Vince wanted big men as champion is valid but also blown out of proportion. Savage proved that popularity and charisma is more important than size.

Once again, you twist contexts and gloss over certain points I made prior. I did mention that not all WWF Champions of the time were "big men" by standards of that time. Including Bret & Shawn covered that, which I was including all others not named as well that happen to fall into that category. Savage is a great example of that. He wasn't necessarily a tall man, but was a decently weighted guy[big enough to qualify as 'heavyweight']. Just to reiterate, I never claimed that Vince "only wanted big men" as his WWF Champion. I said that Vince was a bigger fan of the bigger talents. I will grant you though, that Macho Man was a champion for the smaller talents during a time when big men dominated. Which goes back to my earlier point about different talents having different positive attributes. Savage's was obviously popularity and charisma. He was also quite adaptable and great inside the ring and being able to work with just about anyone.



That's great but I don't see how it's relevant to determining the champion.

First off, it's a preference topic. You either legitimately wanted to see a great talent like Mr. Perfect as WWF Champion or you didn't. However, I was merely pointing out that my logic was that he was massively over and an easy talent to work with. This was largely when wrestling was becoming more about political association and backstage politics more than actual merit or skill. To that end, Hennig was an excellent in ring performer who was also the rare combo of a great character, different look, and awesome mic skills. I will admit to being somewhat biased in this aspect of the topic. How anyone like a Perfect can come along and not be included as champion is beyond my comprehension as a wrestling fan. Maybe some things just weren't meant to be.



If he didn't get injured he may very well have become champion eventually. The timing wasn't right for him. It's not like he was snubbed throughout his career. Far from it. He was one of the better IC champions during the Hulkamania era. Don't underestimate that. Despite not winning the world title Perfect enjoyed his share of success.

IF is the main word in that sentence. If Hennig had not gotten injured, he may well have become WWF Champion. And yes, timing is everything in wrestling. Anyone who has ever became champion had the right combination of talent and timing. The Mr. Perfect character had been established long before his injury though. At some point after he lost the IC Title, he could've easily transitioned into the WWF title picture. Which is usually the natural progression for the upcoming WWF talents from that era. Bret & Shawn are key examples of that. Even Savage. I'm not saying Perfect didn't enjoy success because he did. I'm just saying that I believe he was capable of much more as the WWF Champion and it's a real shame McMahon didn't give him that shot. Again, maybe it just wasn't to be. The fan in me always wonders what if though; which is essentially why this forum and these topics are made. Everyone here is in the forum to either share their views of the times back then or to ask "what if?". I'm not whining about the fact that Hennig wasn't champion, just merely inserting that it's a shame he never got the opportunity to do so. Which alot of people are missing the meaning outright or are twisting to fit their trivial and petty attempts at starting the cliche old "big man/little man" arguement. Which was never my intention to bring up. I do think it is essential to include that viewpoint though because it was a big factor in whom the title was put on during that era in pro wrestling[NWA/WCW and WWF, not just one company]. I won't apologize for being a "Mr. Perfect"/Curt Hennig fan and wondering what might've been and what I believe should have been. Although I do understand the majority will view my debate on this how they want and most likely not agree.



He wasn't over nearly as much as Hogan and Warrior. If Perfect were wrestling instead of announcing in 1996 he might have gotten a brief reign trading the title back and forth with Michaels. He just wasn't going to get it over Hogan or Warrior.

If you look at certain points in Hennig's career, he was just as popular as those guys. Maybe not more "over" than Warrior or Hogan in specific. Not denying the presence of those two. Just like there's no comparing their lack of in-ring skills when presented next to Hennig. I've never based anything I believe on size. If a big man can go out there and perform, I'm just as happy to take notice of their matches as well. I'm more of a fan that appreciates ring talent over big talkers or physical specimens like Hogan/Warrior, which is why I believe Hennig should've become WWF Champion. I will agree that during the time Hennig could've won the title it was probably next to impossible for him to pull it off. That's more of the "what might've been" part of me talking.



No offense, I have nothing against you, but it seems like you're the one presenting opinion as fact. I don't think anyone has a bias against Henning but I think you probably have a bias toward him. If he's one of your favorites that's great. I liked him too. He was awesome, no doubt. I just think your feelings as a fan appear to be clouding your judgment. Perfect had a great WWF career as a two time IC champion. That's more than a lot of guys from his era got.

No offense taken. I never present anything I say as 100% fact. I simply base what I reply with from my prospective as a fan. Every poster here has their own personal favorites and those they dislike as well. When you look at Hennig's overall appeal and ability from a professional standpoint, I cannot think of one single reason NOT to have made him WWF Champion. That's the beauty of fan forums; if you can think of even ONE good reason, quote me on it and state it. I, for one, welcome the opinion of others and do not believe my viewpoint to be the only relevant one. If you read everything I've said up until this point, you'll notice I never say this is fact or this isn't. Everything is from my own personal views as a fan of "Mr. Perfect". I will agree though that Hennig isn't the only singles wrestler from his generation to miss the opportunity and at least he got 2 IC titles to prove he was indeed a worthy champion.

I think Mr. Perfect could have been a good world champion. That doesn't mean he should have been world champion given all the factors. I hope you understand the difference.

His injury did play a major role in Perfect not becoming WWF Champion. And I'm sure there were other things all spinning at that time to prevent it as well[probably things we fans will never know about]. And I do understand that just because someone should become champion doesn't mean they will. However, I simply believe that when people look at wrestling 20 years from now they'll notice how inconsistent the business was to certain talents. People will wonder, "hey, why was The Ultimate Warrior WWF Champion and Mr. Perfect wasn't?". Yes, popularity had alot to do with Warrior's rise. When you see a greatly talented individual like Hennig not winning a world title in stark contrast to an untalented and undeserving Warrior winning one, you have to wonder why[or at least I do]. Maybe it's just one of those things in wrestling that is what it is; no rhyme or reason just not meant to be. But, that's the reason I post here in the old school forum; to wonder what could've been if things went down differently. And that's the difference between a blind mark and an opinion of a smart fan who simply thinks things could've been better.
 
I'm not saying that these big men aren't talented. These big men do have their appeal to audiences and their own positive attributes, no doubt. What I am sayin' is that Mr. Perfect was a great talent who should've been champion at some point[before the injury, which most people are twisting to make it seem as if I'm talking about Hennig while injured being champion. Taking it outta context]. :lmao: Glad to see you have a good sense of humor including Warrior in that list. That's proving my main merit vs. big man basis for debate for me. Warrior was perhaps the worst talent[and I use that word very loosely here] to ever wear the WWF Title and he certainly could've been overlooked at the time he was made champion in favor of Hennig.

I'm not joking about Warrior at all. I am well aware of the reputation he has among the IWC but the fact is he was extremely popular from 1989-1991. He was built to be an equal to Hulk Hogan. There was nothing wrong with Warrior getting the title in 1990. You need to realize that Vince isn't going to put the title on the person that delivers the best suplex or throws the best dropkick. It's going on the most popular guy that is going to sell tickets and merchandise. Warrior was that guy so he got the world title. Henning got the IC title because of his talent.

People see things how they want to. I'm not tryin' to change that, nor would I want that. My logic is that a consistently great performer like Hennig should've been WWF Champion at some point. The mere fact that he was never made champion is a travesty in my view. I'm sure you and others may not agree, which is fine. Though I disagree that it's a logical reason hardly. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

If Hennig never got an IC run and you made these comments in reference to the IC title I would be in 100% agreement. If he were around in a later era he probably would have been world champion. 1990 was a different time. From February 20, 1978 - June 13, 1993 the title was held by a heel for approximately a combined six months. Six months in a 15 year period. The WWF wanted the title on good guys back then. It's just the way it was.

First off, it's a preference topic. You either legitimately wanted to see a great talent like Mr. Perfect as WWF Champion or you didn't. However, I was merely pointing out that my logic was that he was massively over and an easy talent to work with. This was largely when wrestling was becoming more about political association and backstage politics more than actual merit or skill. To that end, Hennig was an excellent in ring performer who was also the rare combo of a great character, different look, and awesome mic skills. I will admit to being somewhat biased in this aspect of the topic. How anyone like a Perfect can come along and not be included as champion is beyond my comprehension as a wrestling fan. Maybe some things just weren't meant to be.

I can't argue what your preference is. That's obviously up to you. There's nothing wrong with you wanting Perfect to have been champion. I'm just telling you why he wasn't.


IF is the main word in that sentence. If Hennig had not gotten injured, he may well have become WWF Champion. And yes, timing is everything in wrestling. Anyone who has ever became champion had the right combination of talent and timing. The Mr. Perfect character had been established long before his injury though. At some point after he lost the IC Title, he could've easily transitioned into the WWF title picture.

Maybe we're thinking of different times here. Perfect's injury took place while he was IC champ. He lost the title to Bret Hart at SummerSlam 91 and didn't wreslte again for over a year. Then he came back for one year and didn't return to the WWF again until 2002. Are you saying Perfect should have been champion in 1993 as a face or sometime earlier as a heel? I didn't care for him as a face nearly as much and really only see him as champion as a heel.

I'm just saying that I believe he was capable of much more as the WWF Champion and it's a real shame McMahon didn't give him that shot. Again, maybe it just wasn't to be. The fan in me always wonders what if though; which is essentially why this forum and these topics are made. Everyone here is in the forum to either share their views of the times back then or to ask "what if?". I'm not whining about the fact that Hennig wasn't champion, just merely inserting that it's a shame he never got the opportunity to do so. Which alot of people are missing the meaning outright or are twisting to fit their trivial and petty attempts at starting the cliche old "big man/little man" arguement. Which was never my intention to bring up. I do think it is essential to include that viewpoint though because it was a big factor in whom the title was put on during that era in pro wrestling[NWA/WCW and WWF, not just one company]. I won't apologize for being a "Mr. Perfect"/Curt Hennig fan and wondering what might've been and what I believe should have been. Although I do understand the majority will view my debate on this how they want and most likely not agree.

No need to apologize for being a Mr. Perfect fan. It's fine that you wanted him to be champion. I just hope you see the reasoning for putting the title on Warrior instead of Perfect despite you thinking Perfect was the superior in ring talent. I certainly don't mind playing out the 'what if' scenario. I know I've made my share of 'what if' threads. It's part of the fun of the old school section.

If you look at certain points in Hennig's career, he was just as popular as those guys. Maybe not more "over" than Warrior or Hogan in specific. Not denying the presence of those two. Just like there's no comparing their lack of in-ring skills when presented next to Hennig. I've never based anything I believe on size. If a big man can go out there and perform, I'm just as happy to take notice of their matches as well. I'm more of a fan that appreciates ring talent over big talkers or physical specimens like Hogan/Warrior, which is why I believe Hennig should've become WWF Champion. I will agree that during the time Hennig could've won the title it was probably next to impossible for him to pull it off. That's more of the "what might've been" part of me talking.

It's hard to say Perfect was better in the ring than Hogan or Warrior. I know that seems absurd but Hogan and Warrior always had the crowd in the palm of their hand. Perfect was more crisp and fluid and he told a good story but he didn't control the crowd like Hogan and Warrior did. I prefer Perfect's style to Warrior's too but I recognize Warrior was the better choice for world champion. I'm ok with that because I got to see Hennig shine and enjoy his talents as IC champion. I still got to see his quality matches so it didn't bother me that it was for the secondary title because I don't think I would have seen a better perfromance from him if he was world champ. And by the way, Perfect was nowhere near as popular as Hogan or Warrior.

No offense taken. I never present anything I say as 100% fact. I simply base what I reply with from my prospective as a fan. Every poster here has their own personal favorites and those they dislike as well. When you look at Hennig's overall appeal and ability from a professional standpoint, I cannot think of one single reason NOT to have made him WWF Champion. That's the beauty of fan forums; if you can think of even ONE good reason, quote me on it and state it. I, for one, welcome the opinion of others and do not believe my viewpoint to be the only relevant one. If you read everything I've said up until this point, you'll notice I never say this is fact or this isn't. Everything is from my own personal views as a fan of "Mr. Perfect". I will agree though that Hennig isn't the only singles wrestler from his generation to miss the opportunity and at least he got 2 IC titles to prove he was indeed a worthy champion.

The reason he was not champion is because during his time in WWF there were better choices. It's as simple as that.

His injury did play a major role in Perfect not becoming WWF Champion. And I'm sure there were other things all spinning at that time to prevent it as well[probably things we fans will never know about]. And I do understand that just because someone should become champion doesn't mean they will. However, I simply believe that when people look at wrestling 20 years from now they'll notice how inconsistent the business was to certain talents. People will wonder, "hey, why was The Ultimate Warrior WWF Champion and Mr. Perfect wasn't?". Yes, popularity had alot to do with Warrior's rise. When you see a greatly talented individual like Hennig not winning a world title in stark contrast to an untalented and undeserving Warrior winning one, you have to wonder why[or at least I do]. Maybe it's just one of those things in wrestling that is what it is; no rhyme or reason just not meant to be. But, that's the reason I post here in the old school forum; to wonder what could've been if things went down differently. And that's the difference between a blind mark and an opinion of a smart fan who simply thinks things could've been better.

Let's say Perfect was champion instead of Warrior in 1990. Don't you think people would be wondering how someone who was so popular and as over as Warrior was with his super hero look wasn't champion? Can you imagine Mr. Perfect taking the title from Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania VI? That would be like Owen Hart taking the title from Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania XIV instead of Steve Austin.
 
There are only two windows for Perfect to have been champion, and both of them would have made bad business sense

First: He takes the title off Hogan at Summerslam 1989 to drop it back to Hogan at Survivor Series 1989 or Royal Rumble 1990 so Hogan can drop it to the Warrior.

This shouldn't happen because Hogan needed to be the ultra babyface he always had been heading into the Warrior match. Keep in mind that it was Vince's plan to have Warrior take over from Hogan as the number one babyface in the company and to move Hogan into something of an Andre role. The best way to do that move is to have Hogan coming in as superhuman as ever to Wrestlemania 6. Losing to Perfect 6 months before the event doesn't fit into that scenario.

Second: Beating Bret Hart for the title at Survivor Series 1992 to drop it back to him at the Rumble in 1993.

Doesn't work because it would kill Bret's character (who was vastly more over than Perfect and just as good in the ring, so should be above him in the pecking order) dead as a main event player, given that he would also drop the title to Yokozuna at Wrestlemania 9. In the heyday an era of long reigns winning and losing the title twice in such a short space of time would have marked him as a guy who can't cut it at the top of the table in fans eyes.

That even leaves aside Perfect's injuries and drug problems (keep in mind what was happening in 1992 in the WWF).

Did Perfect have the talent to carry the belt? Sure.
Was he over enough for that era? Debatable, he was very over but so too were a lot of guys who were never given the title.

I think people who weren't watching the WWF back then need to remember that we're not even talking about Attitude Era here. This was from a time when you could count the number of WWF Champions since Wrestlemania 1 on two hands. Getting the belt, particularly as a heel, was next to impossible. Doesn't mean Perfect, Rude, Piper, Roberts and DiBiase didn't have the talent to win and carry they belt, those five certainly did, it just means that they were lucky enough (I do think it was luck over bad luck) to be wrestling in a time of long title reigns drawn from a vast pool of talent, probably the most talented roster of wrestlers in the history of any wrestling company.
 
I'm not joking about Warrior at all. I am well aware of the reputation he has among the IWC but the fact is he was extremely popular from 1989-1991. He was built to be an equal to Hulk Hogan. There was nothing wrong with Warrior getting the title in 1990. You need to realize that Vince isn't going to put the title on the person that delivers the best suplex or throws the best dropkick. It's going on the most popular guy that is going to sell tickets and merchandise. Warrior was that guy so he got the world title. Henning got the IC title because of his talent.

Sorry, that was my sarcasm getting the better of me. I thought you would get that with the whole laughing smiley face. Let me make myself clear: I understand that Warrior was popular and I'm not debating that at all. What I am saying is that when you compare talent, Hennig was easily ten times the all-around performer and in-ring competitor than Warrior[and that's being generous]. And yeah, I do admit that popularity is sometimes the motivation behind untalented guys like Warrior being chosen to be champion when guys like Perfect obviously deserved it more. Hennig paid his dues and worked hard for decades to get to WWF. In stark contrast to that, Jim Hellwig just happened to be a freakish bodybuilder at the right place and in the right time. He paid zero dues and was pushed on appearance alone. He had no charisma or in-ring ability. Even before I knew about wrestling being "scripted" and not based on talent, I still wasn't a fan of The Warrior. Even when I was 8 or 9 guys like Hogan & Savage were my favorites as opposed to Warrior. Warrior was just too far out there for my taste and that didn't improve over time. My whole basis of debate here is that Hennig deserved to be champion a helluva lot more than Warrior ever did. One could also argue that Hennig seemed to be a better person than Warrior as well. You hear all kind of negative things about Warrior but cannot find many bad things from anyone about Hennig. His talent and drive should have been enough to qualify him as a worthy contender and made him a WWF Champion. As you said though, popularity was more important with merch sales and such back then. No doubt that Warrior wins there[probably the only area in which Warrior would ever beat Hennig].



If Hennig never got an IC run and you made these comments in reference to the IC title I would be in 100% agreement. If he were around in a later era he probably would have been world champion. 1990 was a different time. From February 20, 1978 - June 13, 1993 the title was held by a heel for approximately a combined six months. Six months in a 15 year period. The WWF wanted the title on good guys back then. It's just the way it was.

I gotta ask here; Are you claiming Hennig SHOULDN'T have been WWF Champion? Because it's abit confusing that you claim you liked him at certain points and contradict that by claiming he wasn't worthy of becoming champion. It was indeed a time of the hero back then. Which is the only reason a no-talent hack like Warrior would ever become WWF Champion. That doesn't mean we cannot look back and see how inconsistent pro wrestling was to certain legends like Hennig and question why. Saying it's "just the way it was" simply does not cover it. When you take a look at those who were all coming up around the same time in wrestling as Hennig, you see WWF Champions. Diesel, Sid, Vader, HBK, and Bret Hart more notably. How WWF[E] could not have considered Hennig as good if not better than them by giving him a title reign is beyond my comprehension ability. I understand that merit and skill isn't the only deciding factor, but still; it just doesn't equate to me that Warrior will have done something that Hennig never did, despite the fact that Warrior was nowhere near Hennig's league or calibur of performer. That simple.



I can't argue what your preference is. That's obviously up to you. There's nothing wrong with you wanting Perfect to have been champion. I'm just telling you why he wasn't.

Nor can I dictate what you choose to believe. If you want to believe there was a legitimate reason for WWF to not have made Hennig WWF Champion, good for you. I'm simply pointing out the numerous positives of Hennig's far outweighed his negatives and he should've been rewarded for his years of paying dues by getting the opportunity to be World Champion.




Maybe we're thinking of different times here. Perfect's injury took place while he was IC champ. He lost the title to Bret Hart at SummerSlam 91 and didn't wreslte again for over a year. Then he came back for one year and didn't return to the WWF again until 2002. Are you saying Perfect should have been champion in 1993 as a face or sometime earlier as a heel? I didn't care for him as a face nearly as much and really only see him as champion as a heel.

No, we're thinking of the same time. I was saying that after Hennig returned from injury, he should've taken the natural progression and become WWF Champion. Not that he should've won when he returned in 2002. 2002 Hennig was noticeably much different and not the same performer. He had lost his appeal to most fans by that point and his popularity was pretty much relagated to being a nostalgia act. Much the same way it was when WWE brought back Hulk Hogan. I will agree that Perfect was alot better as a heel. He was too bland and generic as the smiling face and he had a natural charisma that seemed better suited to the heel role.



No need to apologize for being a Mr. Perfect fan. It's fine that you wanted him to be champion. I just hope you see the reasoning for putting the title on Warrior instead of Perfect despite you thinking Perfect was the superior in ring talent. I certainly don't mind playing out the 'what if' scenario. I know I've made my share of 'what if' threads. It's part of the fun of the old school section.

I totally understand your logic here. Warrior sold more merch and was probably more popular than Hennig ever was. He was over because of his look alone though, which leaves alot to be desired for him being a deserving champion[just in my view]. I'm not trying to change minds or claim that my view is historical and empirical fact. What I am claiming is that it's a travesty that Hennig never got the full shot at becoming champion and Warrior did.



It's hard to say Perfect was better in the ring than Hogan or Warrior. I know that seems absurd but Hogan and Warrior always had the crowd in the palm of their hand. Perfect was more crisp and fluid and he told a good story but he didn't control the crowd like Hogan and Warrior did. I prefer Perfect's style to Warrior's too but I recognize Warrior was the better choice for world champion. I'm ok with that because I got to see Hennig shine and enjoy his talents as IC champion. I still got to see his quality matches so it didn't bother me that it was for the secondary title because I don't think I would have seen a better perfromance from him if he was world champ. And by the way, Perfect was nowhere near as popular as Hogan or Warrior.

Being a showman is totally different from being a technician. Warrior and Hogan were superior showmen than Hennig, no doubt there. However, by the same token, Hogan & Warrior could never lace Hennig's boots as far as being technicians in ring. I do understand that showmen have their place in wrestling and have always been more preferred as marketable champions. It's all about money to wrestling promoters like McMahon and others. While Warrior & Hogan were the big money champions, guys like Hennig and Bret Hart were the undercard that allowed them to remain on top. They were having the good matches while Hogan and Warrior were doing the same boring crap routines. I take offense with you claiming Hennig wasn't capable of holding a crowd as well as Hogan or Warrior. Simply put, he had other methods of acheiving the same ends. Hogan & Warrior wowed the crowds with their appearance and presences alone. Guys like Bret Hart, Michaels, Savage, and Hennig had the unique ability to hold crowds in their hands by their technical ability and in-ring storytelling. Different strokes for different performers.



The reason he was not champion is because during his time in WWF there were better choices. It's as simple as that.

This is where we disagree the most. If there were better choices as far as being a more all around performer, I never saw them. On second thought, maybe we were watching different times. Because the WWF I saw during that time were full of awful gimmicks and freakishily untalented glorified bodybuilder types. WWF was damn near cartoonish and Hennig's whole character was a nice change from the status-quo. To me, that's what mattered and set Perfect apart from the crowd. Many have the ability to stand out physically with appearances. Very few can wrestle, talk, and deliver in damn near every area like Curt Hennig did. Obviously some don't see it that way, which I can understand[though I don't agree at all].



Let's say Perfect was champion instead of Warrior in 1990. Don't you think people would be wondering how someone who was so popular and as over as Warrior was with his super hero look wasn't champion? Can you imagine Mr. Perfect taking the title from Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania VI? That would be like Owen Hart taking the title from Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania XIV instead of Steve Austin.

:lol: I'm guessing with that whole thing, you don't judge merely based on merit or actual ability[SHOCKING! :)]. Honestly, I don't think you give Perfect credit for being as skilled as he was. I don't believe fans would have minded at all if Mr. Perfect had been WWF Champion instead of Warrior. People were already beginning to become bored with big men who couldn't measure up to the smaller guys whom they could work circles around. Fans were already transitioning into becoming "smart fans" who appreciated actual ability over physical size alone. FYI, comparing Owen/Shawn to Perfect/Warrior is wrong on so many levels. Not the least of which was the amount of dues Perfect paid over decades and years of dedication to his craft. Although the same principal would still apply with Owen winning the title instead of Austin. I will grant you that the moment would've been alot different and maybe not as impactful. But who says different has to mean worse? For each scenario you pitch, each one could've had its own domino effects for the positive for the overall course of the pro wrestling business as a whole. Especially if guys that never won the WWF Title like Owen or Curt Hennig won and had become the forerunners of the technical generation of skilled workers that would've eventually caught on anyway. Imagine what potentially great matches could've replace those lame and boring Hogan & Warrior matches with unworthy challengers if Perfect had been challenging big names like a Hogan or Warrior. No doubt that an already impressive legacy of "Mr. Perfect" would've been that much better if that had happened. That's just the way I see it, though.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,826
Messages
3,300,735
Members
21,726
Latest member
chrisxenforo
Back
Top