Shoeless Joe Jackson: The Player, The Scandal... His innocence?

[BooCocky]

Every fan of baseball knows the Shoeless Joe story. This was a great player that was falsely accused of tossing a series for money. At the time the guy was one of the best, his 354 Career Batting, his close to 2000 hits in less than five thousand at bats. This man had his career taken away from him because of his greedy team mates, they decided to talk to a bookie who could help them win some cash. So this team tossed the world series in 1919. Shoeless Joe Jackson was hitting lights out, his numbers weren't of a player who wanted to toss a game. He batted 375 in the WS with perfect fielding. So,

Was Shoeless Joe falsely accused, was justice served? Should his ban be lifted so he could enter the HOF? What are your thoughts on Shoeless Joe, The Black Sox scandal and every other thing surrounding it?

 

[X]

Without a doubt Joe should be in the Hall of Fame. So should Pete Rose, and several other hitters who have been associated with steroids. Off-field activities should have no bearing on whether or not your in the HOF, period.

It's pretty much common knowledge that Joe more than likely didn't have anything whatsoever to do with the gambling fiasco. I think a lifetime ban from the league was more than enough punishment at the time.

Without a doubt, Jackson (and especially Rose) need to be in the HOF. They deserve it, big time.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

Every fan of baseball knows the Shoeless Joe story. This was a great player that was falsely accused of tossing a series for money. At the time the guy was one of the best, his 354 Career Batting, his close to 2000 hits in less than five thousand at bats. This man had his career taken away from him because of his greedy team mates, they decided to talk to a bookie who could help them win some cash. So this team tossed the world series in 1919. Shoeless Joe Jackson was hitting lights out, his numbers weren't of a player who wanted to toss a game. He batted 375 in the WS with perfect fielding. So,

Was Shoeless Joe falsely accused, was justice served? Should his ban be lifted so he could enter the HOF? What are your thoughts on Shoeless Joe, The Black Sox scandal and every other thing surrounding it?

The hard thing about this is the time in which it happened. That was almost 90 years ago, so any facts surrounding the matter are clouded. The further away you get from it, the more diluted it becomes and the harder it is to know what happened. In this, we never will know the truth. We could dig and dig to our hearts content, but there is nothing that will tell us definitively what happened. In my opinion, Joe should be in the Hall of Fame on his merits alone. Anyone that hits as well as he in that era deserves a spot in Cooperstown, no matter if they threw a series, bet on baseball, or took steroids when they weren't banned. That's an argument for another time, though.

I don't think that he threw it. A star of his caliber was taken care of financially, so there wasn't any motivation there for him to do it. He had to have known the consequences, and I don't see any reason for such a great player to throw away his career and stampede all over his legacy. It's also very hard to throw something when playing at your very highest level. Then again, it may have just been to make everything look legitimate and hide the fact that they were laying down. We'll never know.

 

[BooCocky]

Firstly, i want you to define taken care of financially? In the early 1900's what do you think a player was making? What would a player have gotten if he won a WS? Not much. It isn't like todays game where players get extra incentives based on plate appearances, all star appearances, Walks, and every other thing humanly possible in baseball. In 1919, I believe the plan was estimated for roughly 20,000 dollars, which I believe was an extremely high price for that ERA. It is said that Shoeless Joe accepted the money but he did not take part in the whole fiasco. It is a bunch of heresy but when a man pleads his innocence for nearly thirty years you know he isn't guilty. None of his stories changed to drastically, and if i can recall the 7 other players even said he did not participate in the scandal.

I honestly don't care if players take Performance Enhancing drugs, or bet on baseball, but I was always leaning towards his innocence, especially when you have roughly seven people are saying you are innocent. The Courts are usually all about heresy, and nothing should change, his teammates should have been enough to prove his innocence.

 

[CH David]

To start off, the team wasn't greedy per se. Charles Comiskey was the cheapest owner in the game. Every player hated him. He cheated them out of their bonuses, I forgot if it was Eddie Cicotte or not, would have gotten a bonus for winning 30 games that year, but Chuck wasn't going to let him pitch so he could get to 30. He made them pay to clean their own laundry, which no other team did. They felt that they would teach him a lesson, but what happened turned the Sox into a cellar team for many years. So they were greedy, but also deserved their payment for what they had done that season, and also for what they had done for the team in general. As it wasn't a normal World Series, it was now a best of 9. I forget after what game they decided to say fuck it, we are going to win, but they did after I think game 4 or 5. (If anyone can find out for sure let me know). The bookers that they dealt with then decided to threaten the life of Lefty William's wife, so the double cross died, and they lost in 8.

Shoeless Joe Jackson was going to be one of the all time greats of baseball, possibly comparable to Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth in terms of ability, and he was great in the field. I believe that he was cut short of a possibly monumental career. Each of his team members involved in the fix kept saying that he was not involved in the fix at all. He was just mentioned to add credibility to the bookers. People will say Joe took money from the gamblers, but he also played to win.

Not even taking into account I am a die-hard White Sox fan, just as a baseball fan, Joe Jackson should have his ban lifted, and allowed in the Hall of Fame. I doubt that it will happen surrounding the controversy of Joe alone, but I truly believe it. He would have had sure fire Hall of Fame numbers had he been allowed to continue his career, and that isn't even disputable. The rest of the team, sadly should not be allowed in the Hall, even with some of their career numbers.

 

[Cowboyfromhell]

Joe should absolutely be allowed in the Hall of Fame. From what I've read, gambling was pretty rampant back then, a lot of players were rumored to have fixed games or bet on their games at some point, even Ty Cobb. So Joe and Pete Rose should be allowed in.
Plus the HOF should be about the achieving excellence on the field, you shouldn't be kept out because of what happens off the field. I believe OJ Simpson is still in the NFL's HOF in Canton Ohio and he's not exactly a model citizen.

 

[gd]

Of course he should be in the Hall of Fame, and all gamblers for that matter. I don't understand gamblers are absolutely not allowed in the Hall of Fame but guys who tested positive for steroids are. Steroids affect your performance and make the game look bad; gambling only kind of makes the game look bad.

Jackson may or may not have been involved with teh scandal. Even though he had a great World Series, I wouldn't be surprised if he originally agreed to the plan and backed out at the last minute feeling guilty. Either way, I don't think what he might have done warranted him being left out of the Hall Of Fame. He should definelyt be inducted, but I doubt we'll see it happen.