Shinsuke Nakamura is the New NXT Champion

[OYDK]

Shinsuke Nakamura beat Samoa Joe for the NXT Championship last night at an NXT live event in his home country of Japan, making him the second 2-time NXT champ alongside Samoa Joe.

Who's surprised? Anybody? Anybody at all?

My opinion on this is... pointless. They really didn't need to take the title off of Nakamura just so he could win it in Japan, which almost everybody saw coming anyway. It is what it is, but again, this seemed pointless. I'm sure somebody will tell me why I'm wrong though. Let's have it.

 

[tak161]

I couldn't agree more with this. There was absolutely no point in putting the title on Joe for a couple weeks, just so Nakamura could win it in Japan. I mean it's great that Joe got a second reign to go on his list of accomplishments, but it was meaningless in the long run.

They are catering to a guy that as far as I'm concerned isn't as great as some people would have you believe.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I would think that having Nakamura be an underdog challenger going home to a place where WWE wants to spread it's brand and winning a title is quite meaningful to WWE's and NXT's future in Japan.

But hey, if you expect a second title reign from WWE's fifth or sixth most important belt on an enhancement talent be meaningful, then .

So here's the real question, what was Joe going to do that would be meaningful?

 

[Hyorinmaru]

Think about it guys you have one of the biggest stars to come out of Japan coming home to wrestle in front of the Japanese fans.

If you were the audience would you rather see a second successful defense against Joe or would you want to see the home town hero finally vanquish his biggest foe?

The way I see it this was all about the moment for the fans. Had they not gone to tour Japan Joe would never have won his 2nd title.

They've never hot potatoed the NXT title before and I have to think they won't make it a habit now.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

This is some nice, old school booking here folks, going back the 70s and the 80s and I like it. In fact, NXT always had a more simple, old school booking: the face of the brand carries the belt, the heel wins and then puts over the next big face. Simple and effective, just like the era of Sammartino and early Hogan was.

Maybe that's why NXT works.

EDIT: Wouldn't Flair beat a big face in the US, only for that face to retake the title, maybe even weeks after? That's exactly what happened here. This was done, for the moment and the japanese fans.

 

[MWRedskins]

is this one that needs a spoiler or is it already happened on a live show??? all i know is that i'm not surprised about this and in fact, i somewhat saw this coming. the story writes itself (going to his home country and winning) and now gives both Nakamura and Joe history in that they both are the only 2 time NXT Champions. With that done, i now will hope that after the eventual re-match that they move Joe to Smackdown after he enters the Rumble, then have him chase after AJ Styles' WWE championship.

 

[johnbragg]

Shinsuke Nakamura beat Samoa Joe for the NXT Championship last night at an NXT live event in his home country of Japan, making him the second 2-time NXT champ alongside Samoa Joe.

Who's surprised? Anybody? Anybody at all?

My opinion on this is... pointless.

In other words, there's really nothing bad about it. On the other hand, there are some positives.

They really didn't need to take the title off of Nakamura just so he could win it in Japan, which almost everybody saw coming anyway. It is what it is, but again, this seemed pointless. I'm sure somebody will tell me why I'm wrong though. Let's have it.

The point was, you know the Japanese tour is coming. Part of the reason you're doing to tour is to build the WWE and NXT brands in Japan.

You could keep the belt on Nakamura, and have him defend against Joe or another repeat challenger, but one who's a credible threat. Nothing wrong with it, but ho-hum. (5.5/10)

You could have Nakamura defend against a new challenger, one who's not going to win the belt. That shorts the Japanese fans a bit. Say 4/10.

Or you could have Joe win the rematch and take his belt back, and have NAkamura come in as the babyface hometown challenger in the climax of a triology. Japanese fans go home extra happy, which should pay off down the road. (7/10)

As someone else said, I'm not sure what more you expect from the NXT belt.

EDIT: All that is assuming you're not ready to move NAkamura up to the main roster as a contender. Because you could tell the story that he disappoints his hometown fans in losing to Joe, and has to redeem himself by winning on an even bigger stage. (You send the Japanese fans home with a sad, but they get their back when Nakamura wins a title this summer.)

 

[OYDK]

In other words, there's really nothing bad about it. On the other hand, there are some positives.

There is one negative consequence that comes out of this, a minor one no doubt, but still a negative. That is, taking the title off of Nak in the first place sacrifices continuity for a moment that didn't really need to happen.

The point was, you know the Japanese tour is coming. Part of the reason you're doing to tour is to build the WWE and NXT brands in Japan.

I get this, and I knew it was going to be one of the main points opposing my OP. Still, I think some people are putting too much stock into this particular point as a justification for lame booking. In all honesty, Japan eats up anything WWE anyway, they always have, and having Nakamura on the card alone would have drew fans to the event. My point is, you didn't need to give Joe the belt just so he could lose it in Japan. Having Nakamura defend would have accomplished the exact same thing in this context without sacrificing the continuity of his run.

You could keep the belt on Nakamura, and have him defend against Joe or another repeat challenger, but one who's a credible threat. Nothing wrong with it, but ho-hum. (5.5/10)

You could have Nakamura defend against a new challenger, one who's not going to win the belt. That shorts the Japanese fans a bit. Say 4/10.

Or you could have Joe win the rematch and take his belt back, and have NAkamura come in as the babyface hometown challenger in the climax of a triology. Japanese fans go home extra happy, which should pay off down the road. (7/10)

See, I have a problem with this type of thinking. How exactly are you calculating these scores. I could just as easily say: Nakamura defends against Joe in a great match. (8/10)

Nakamura wins title from Joe in a great match. (8/10)

But these literally mean nothing as they're just my personal opinion.

As someone else said, I'm not sure what more you expect from the NXT belt.

The NXT belt has been booked well because it hasn't been hot-shotted like this in the past. When Finn was defending against Owens in Japan, they didn't take the belt off of him and hurt his run just so he could win it back "at home". Sacrificing continuity for the moment works sometimes, but I've never been a fan of that particular booking.

To each their own though. I can see both sides of the argument, but I personally found it rather pointless.

 

[johnbragg]

There is one negative consequence that comes out of this, a minor one no doubt, but still a negative. That is, taking the title off of Nak in the first place sacrifices continuity for a moment that didn't really need to happen.

Hmm. I think you're putting more into "continuity" than I am. HAving NAkamura-Joe be evenly matched, but NAkamura coming on top 2-1 *is* a continuity to me. You can't be a great hero without great obstacles, and if Nakamura beats Joe in the rematch, Joe isn't much of an obstacle in a re-rematch in Japan.

n all honesty, Japan eats up anything WWE anyway, they always have, and having Nakamura on the card alone would have drew fans to the event. My point is, you didn't need to give Joe the belt just so he could lose it in Japan. Having Nakamura defend would have accomplished the exact same thing in this context without sacrificing the continuity of his run.

You're saying that the increased goodwill of the Japanese fans is, in the grand scheme of things WWE, a rounding error. I'm saying that having NAkamura's NXT title run interrupted by Nakamura-Joe II and III is a rounding error. We're both likely to be right.

Or not--there's an old school thread right now bemoaning all the squashing that HHH did in 2002-03 on RAW. All of HHH's challengers lacked credibility because we felt he wasn't going to take the loss, so why bother caring.

See, I have a problem with this type of thinking. How exactly are you calculating these scores. I could just as easily say: Nakamura defends against Joe in a great match. (8/10)

Nakamura wins title from Joe in a great match. (8/10)

But these literally mean nothing as they're just my personal opinion.

Agreed. I pulled those numbers out of my butt, but they lay out how I compare the options. Not-terrible, okay, slightly-better-than-average.

The NXT belt has been booked well because it hasn't been hot-shotted like this in the past.

I'd say this is hot-shotting the belt in time, but I don't think it hurts too much. The guy winning the title was completely credible, and the guy he lost it to was equally credible. HAving Joe win the rematch makes that chapter in the NAkamura story better, now he moves on to the next chapter.

If it becomes a pattern, then I agree with you. Nakamura should keep the title for at least six months now.

 

[Dagger Dias]

This makes me angry. Why would you put the belt back on Joe just so that he loses it again here!? That was completely 100% stupid. Short pointless reigns do not benefit anybody. Nakamura should never have lost the belt to begin with, there is no reason to now have two different 2 time NXT Champions in such a short span of time when it had NEVER been done in the past. I hate this kind of booking. It sucks enough when the main roster does it and it has no place in NXT. Move Joe up to the main roster, preferably to Smackdown. He and Styles have history from TNA that could be a good feud to revisit in WWE form. I have a bad feeling he gets sent to Raw to job to Roman Reigns though.... I will say this much though, I am tired of Nakamura VS Joe. If they get another match in January's Takeover then there better be a gimmick match of some sorts. End the feud and move Joe up to the main roster already. The stupid booking decisions like this title change as well as the feud overstaying its welcome have made me lose my interest at this point.

 

[johnbragg]

This makes me angry. Why would you put the belt back on Joe just so that he loses it again here!?

Because it turns Nakamura's win over Joe in Japan from a ho-hum defense to a big deal.

That was completely 100% stupid. Short pointless reigns do not benefit anybody.

In this case, it benefits Nakamura. And, at least in my opinion, it benefits Nakamura more than losing the belt "damaged" him. Nobody was saying "I can't believe they're doing this to Nakamura" a couple of weeks ago--he was still booked strongly in the storylines. And I don't think this damages Joe when he shows up on a main-roster show in a month or so.

Nakamura should never have lost the belt to begin with, there is no reason to now have two different 2 time NXT Champions in such a short span of time when it had NEVER been done in the past.

NEver been done in the past? The NXT Championship is 4 years old. You're not breaking with 50 or even 10 years of tradition.

I hate this kind of booking.

I respect that. And I have to take into account in my opinion of whether this is a good move or not how mad some people are about it.

It sucks enough when the main roster does it and it has no place in NXT. Move Joe up to the main roster, preferably to Smackdown.

Agreed.

He and Styles have history from TNA that could be a good feud to revisit in WWE form. I have a bad feeling he gets sent to Raw to job to Roman Reigns though....

Possible. But this is WWE, there is no guarantee that they wouldn't screw up Joe vs STyles--but by the same token, they might do a good job with Reigns vs Joe.

I will say this much though, I am tired of Nakamura VS Joe. If they get another match in January's Takeover then there better be a gimmick match of some sorts. End the feud and move Joe up to the main roster already.

100% agreement. If Joe stays on NXT, and there is a Chapter 4 to this, then you are right and I am wrong. (It's different if Chapter 4 is on Raw or Smackdown a year or two down the road.)

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Think about it guys you have one of the biggest stars to come out of Japan coming home to wrestle in front of the Japanese fans.

If you were the audience would you rather see a second successful defense against Joe or would you want to see the home town hero finally vanquish his biggest foe?

The way I see it this was all about the moment for the fans. Had they not gone to tour Japan Joe would never have won his 2nd title.

They've never hot potatoed the NXT title before and I have to think they won't make it a habit now.

I'm almost entirely against titles being hot potatoed, regardless of the circumstances, but I think this is an instance where it's the right call to make. In the past, I've read some claiming that WWE has booked shows they've had in Japan "for themselves" rather than the fans. There are differences that WWE should take note of and adjust for if they really want to expand their presence in Japan. Having one of the biggest wrestling stars in Japan over the past decade+ win a title against a formidable opponent is a good step in the right direction. It wasn't Nakamura defending a title, which would've been okay, it was regaining one he'd lost and lost decisively in the same city he won the IWGP Heavyweight Championship for the first time.

 

[ShinChan]

Think about it guys you have one of the biggest stars to come out of Japan coming home to wrestle in front of the Japanese fans.

If you were the audience would you rather see a second successful defense against Joe or would you want to see the home town hero finally vanquish his biggest foe?

The way I see it this was all about the moment for the fans. Had they not gone to tour Japan Joe would never have won his 2nd title.

They've never hot potatoed the NXT title before and I have to think they won't make it a habit now.

The thing is that Nakamura had already vanquished his biggest foe by defeating him in their first outing. It isn't like Nakamura was winless against Joe and he finally defeated Joe. He had already done so. The title change at Toronto took place just so that Nakamura can regain the title in Japan. This is seriously a hot potatoeing (Is hot potatoeing even a word?) of Nxt title. It's infact pointless.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

The thing is that Nakamura had already vanquished his biggest foe by defeating him in their first outing. It isn't like Nakamura was winless against Joe and he finally defeated Joe. He had already done so. The title change at Toronto took place just so that Nakamura can regain the title in Japan. This is seriously a hot potatoeing (Is hot potatoeing even a word?) of Nxt title. It's infact pointless.

I don't mind it to be honest.

I mean what I like about NXT is that the brand is more competition based than story based meaning if you believe that one guy is good as the other then any given night either of the two can win a match.

This is what happened IMO. At Takeover Brooklyn Nakamura was the better man, and in Toronto it was Joe, and it was Nakamura again in Japan.

Hot Potatoing for me is when absurd angles or stipulations were used to switch titles. One example I can think of is Orton and Cena back in 2009, the title changes happened with gimmick matches so it was less about the competition which caused the title to change hands but through a series of angles and gimmicks.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

The thing is that Nakamura had already vanquished his biggest foe by defeating him in their first outing.

He didn't do this if you are a Japanese citizen who has not subscribed to the WWE Network and don't follow NXT.

It isn't like Nakamura was winless against Joe and he finally defeated Joe. He had already done so. The title change at Toronto took place just so that Nakamura can regain the title in Japan. This is seriously a hot potatoeing (Is hot potatoeing even a word?) of Nxt title. It's infact pointless.

Not if you are WWE and trying to increase the number of Japanese subscribers to your network.

For those that follow WWE and NXT regularly the point is that you are supposed to see these two as quite comparable.

 

[ShinChan]

He didn't do this if you are a Japanese citizen who has not subscribed to the WWE Network and don't follow NXT.



Not if you are WWE and trying to increase the number of Japanese subscribers to your network.

For those that follow WWE and NXT regularly the point is that you are supposed to see these two as quite comparable.

So, just trade titles in span of two weeks? That's still pointless. I can understand what WWE intended to do just to gain more viewers from Japan but it still doesn't justify the pointless hot potatoeing of the NxT Title.

Trading of titles won't make them comparable.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

So, just trade titles in span of two weeks? That's still pointless. I can understand what WWE intended to do just to gain more viewers from Japan but it still doesn't justify the pointless hot potatoeing of the NxT Title.

Trading of titles won't make them comparable.

What does Joe beating Nakamura in Japan do from a kayfabe and business perspective?

 

[ShinChan]

What does Joe beating Nakamura in Japan do from a kayfabe and business perspective?

I am no business man. But what I think is that Joe was made the champion at TakeOver Toronto so that Nakamura could regain it in Japan. Right? So, then just make Nakamura win in Toronto too and then he can retain the title in Japan?

Joe won't need to defeat Nakamura in his hometown then.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I am no business man. But what I think is that Joe was made the champion at TakeOver Toronto so that Nakamura could regain it in Japan. Right? So, then just make Nakamura win in Toronto too and then he can retain the title in Japan?

Joe won't need to defeat Nakamura in his hometown then.

But what is point of doing that?

But here is the result?:

Now you have Joe losing to Nakamura how many times in a row? You've devalued Joe and put Nakamura on that much higher of a pedestal in an organization that is lacking a depth of talent. An organization that I think has a big event coming up in about a month. An organization that is thriving but has drained the Indy, international, and TNA talent pool significantly.

The point of the booking of this feud is to drag it out and hope to get more interest from Japanese and Indy fans. You may not like it and find it pointless. But really, what is the point to anything done in professional wrestling beyond giving people entertainment and taking their money (not in that order).