Serious Signings for TNA

[rbv13]

For months there have been reports of TNA reaching out to potential big ticket stars. Recently there were rumors of an offer made to Edge and just a few days ago a $400,000.00 deal was reportedly put on the table in the hopes of luring Alberto El Patron in for the premier on Destination America. The exact details of these reports remain uncertain but nevertheless TNA has been unable to sign any top names, aside from resigning Angle, in quite some time. TNA’s acquisition troubles reach much further than big name stars. They also seem to have issues with brining in young talent that would help the company in growing their own identity.

A possible major factor contributing to the talent drought is the frequently discussed “TNA Stank” that may hinder talents moving forward. Talents that are WWE hopefuls or wish for a return to the company seem to stay away while others simple opt for opportunities in foreign lands or competing promotions such as Lucha, ROH and the eventual GFW. While many notable talents might be off the table their remains a very deep pool from which TNA could attract a handful of new signings. The question is what sort of strategy would you employ and what talents would be a realistic target for TNA?

Taking in age, styles, popularity, politics and physical attributes I thought I would just toss out a few names to get the conversation rolling.

Matt Cross – Received National TV exposure via Tough Enough & Wrestling Society X. Most recently worked under mask on the premiere episode of Lucha Underground. Not exactly sure what his contract situation is there but would be well worth TNA to make a play for. At 34 years old and on the small side it highly unlikely the E will ever come calling. Unmasked and shining on TV could be a selling point.

Michael Elgin – Elgin was hot leading into the ROH title reign but since capturing and dropping the strap he has lost a lot of steam. Maybe a change of scenery would be nice. Great talent who if booked properly could be back at the top of his game. Wait out his ROH deal and make a play. His size with his style really prohibit him from signing with the E.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Elgin signed a two year exclusive contract last June just before Best in the World. His words, not mine. He also now has a hand back in the ROH Midwest Dojo which will make him some more money, Delirious is already scheduled to do a seminar at it and see tryouts in a couple of weeks so any issues the two sides had have been quelled.

Matt Cross is already on TV in Lucha Underground as Son of Havoc. IDK much about the LU contracts but for a guy like Cross I'd imagine he's under one that prevents him from working for other promotions with TV. He's not someone like Alberto who gets a pass because it's better to have him than to not. I know Ricochet/Prince Puma is allowed to but that's because he was under WWNLive/Dragon Gate contracts and LU had to work around that, so they own the Prince Puma character but have nothing over Ricochet.

If I had some money and were given the power to start signing guys for TNA, first few guys I'd sign would be Chuck Taylor, Drew Gulak and Biff Busick. Taylor's at the point now where it's very improbable he'll get a call from WWE, hes said that he wanted to join ROH but they said no because they don't like his style, yet he's one of the most popular guys on the indies and he'd have some buzz going in ala Austin Aries, Samoa Joe, etc. Drew Gulak is a guy who everyone who follows indie wrestling knows because he has developed a reputation of putting on great matches, and has a unique character where he tries to spit propaganda. He was the catalyst behind CZW going for more of a wresting style than a death match one in 2013 and for part of 2014. The only reason I'd see Gulak not wanting to sign is because he'd want to sign for WWE and knows if he signs for TNA that's not possible.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Their failure to get ADR under contract to me came down to the exclusivity they wanted in the deal, less so the fact it was TNA. If he, or others, were so concerned with the idea TNA is this career-killing place, why the hell would he negotiate with them in the first place? Clearly there was mutual interest.

With Edge, from what I understand, it was more of a formality where they simply asked, because asking can't hurt, and he politely declined. No harm, no foul.

Right now, they simply need to continue to produce quality wrestling to make the company a place talents want to go to for televised exposure. If the fans come back around to the product, the talent will too.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Their failure to get ADR under contract to me came down to the exclusivity they wanted in the deal, less so the fact it was TNA. If he, or others, were so concerned with the idea TNA is this career-killing place, why the hell would he negotiate with them in the first place? Clearly there was mutual interest.

I hate how stuff like this somehow makes its way onto "wrasslin' scoopz sites" when the people reporting it who actually have a clue never said that to begin with. ADR was said to be uneasy about joining TNA because he knew of the issues they'd had over the last couple of years and he didn't want to become embroiled in that. That's all that was said, nothing about "killing his career" or anything like that. It probably did come down to the exclusive aspect but apparently the deal TNA offered him was $400,000 for only a few dates a year, his reason for turning them down is his own and nobody knows. Right now he has his plate full to the brim with AAA, Ring of Honor, Lucha Underground, WWL in Puerto Rico and if he wants, promotions in Japan.

And I will disagree with you that all they need to do is restructure the product. Sometimes to do that you need different people playing the roles. TNA does need new guys, not recognizable guys either, but just guys who can offer different things than the guys they have now. On the face of it, the TNA roster right now isn't very good for a company who wants to do sports entertainment like WWE or just straight up wrestling like ROH. Their rostered is a mish-mash of guys.

 

[Daggdag]

They need to focus on rebuilding the x division.

Jack Evans
Ricochet (who can do double duty as Helios if need be)
Chuck Taylor



When it comes to filling out the main card...
Adam Pearce
Carlos Colon Jr. (perhaps with a partnership with WWC)
CIMA, YAMATO, and other Dragon Gate wrestlers. (and a partnership and DG, DGUSA, AND EVOLVE. to replace the one they currently have with W1.)

 

[I_Like_All_Wrestling]

I honestly think they dodged a bullet by not signing Del Rio. I could be wrong, but I never saw him as a draw. He just juts boring. He had a good look and was a good wrestler, there was just something that made him not interesting to me. AT $400K a year, I don't think he'd make a difference for TNA. It would be another example of them picking up the 14th best guy at WWE or something.

I hadn't heard anything about them attempting to get Edge. But again, what would that do? He can't wrestle. He'd be an expensive mouthpiece.

I don't think there's really anyone else out there who's a "big deal." No one is going to care if they get Carlito or Chris Masters or someone like that. They need to get "minor league" guys who can blow up to to be big things. The only problem with that, is that those people are signing with NXT.

They need guys that are doing things people haven't seen, not old names.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Their failure to get ADR under contract to me came down to the exclusivity they wanted in the deal, less so the fact it was TNA. If he, or others, were so concerned with the idea TNA is this career-killing place, why the hell would he negotiate with them in the first place? Clearly there was mutual interest.

With Edge, from what I understand, it was more of a formality where they simply asked, because asking can't hurt, and he politely declined. No harm, no foul.

Right now, they simply need to continue to produce quality wrestling to make the company a place talents want to go to for televised exposure. If the fans come back around to the product, the talent will too.

Okay, usually you and I are on the same page but this is bullshit, man.

Everyone in here knows that ADR knew TNA was a career killer from the second they called him. He just wanted to give them some blue balls because they suck so much. Why would he go there, where careers go to vaporize into the ether. Almost half a million dollars? Is TNA joking? That's pocket money man. His life is OVER if he accepted it. Poor bastard would starve to death. I mean, it's happened to EVERYONE who went there. I can't name anyone whose career died because of TNA, but you know what I mean, it's a career killer. It couldn't have POSSIBLY been another normal negotiation where one party offers something and the other isn't happy with it. Not a chance. Not with ADR.

Also, I'm sure Edge mailed them a bag of his poop because they suck so much. I bet he like ... laughed and said things like .. "Haha, no, I am Edge, I was with the WWE. No.". Something clever like that, because he's Edge. Just sharp.

Now that I put you in your place ..

You got me at "Talent Drought" OP. Really? They have a hard time bringing young talent into the company? You do realize the only people who made their name in the WWE that are in the TNA spotlight are MVP, The Hardys and Lashley right? Four people. I'm not even joking, watch the show, you'll see for yourself. Everyone else is all either TNA originals or ... wait for it ... FRESH YOUNG TALENT. Do you know why? Because they already had an influx of new people. It happened last year. Now they're being built into more than "new guys".

TNA doesn't have a talent drought, TNA is soaking wet when it comes to talent. They got everyone they need right now, they're fine. Use those people and when they get useless then change them up. They got talkers, they got powerhouses, they got X-Division guys, they got monsters, they got risk takers, they got tag teams, they got stables, they got popular names, they got TNA originals, they got new promising talent and they even got some new cool female wrestlers.

As it stands I don't even want to see a new face in TNA. I'm good. Use the people you have they are just fine. But don't talk about talent drought and TNA not being able to bring in young talent because it's not 2010 anymore and in case you haven't noticed, the spine of the show is young talent and TNA originals. Let's not even discuss age, we all know wrestlers can go until their forties and sometimes more. Until they start to slow down in the ring and get injured more, it's not an issue. No one on the roster is like that, aside from maybe Angle but he's wrapping it up.

 

[mlp420]

I wonder how much of this stuff is coordination between the rumor sites and some of the promotions with national aspirations (Lucha, GFW, ROH) that, for whatever reason, see TNA as their chief rival. We've heard rumblings in the past that TNA felt people were putting out false rumors to make them look bad, and this just seems like the case to me.

One week after their first set of tapings all of a sudden we get a rumor about the talent still being worried about the company going under despite the fact that everybody's getting contract extensions. And now the rumor that nobody wants to sign to TNA comes conveniently after the Alberto 400K offer undermines the first rumor. Seems to me there is a concerted effort to keep everyone's focus on TNA's backstage ongoings and off of TNA's improving on screen product.

 

[Boring]

Their roster is a mish-mash of guys.

Yes! But before that...

I'm glad ADR and Edge didn't come and don't care whether TNA is a career killer or not. ADR has been wanting to leave WWE for years and at 38, why would he care? AJ Styles has proved ROH, NJPW etc will still hire and pay you no matter what TNA does to you.

Guys who should care are EC3, Tyrus, and Bram(young developmental guys who could 1 day be re-hired by WWE) and they all seemed to show up rather quickly. It also seems guys like Chris Masters/Drew McIntyre have been interested, but I don't think the issue really matters. There's probably some truth to it, but it's all probably based on a number of reasons.

It probably has less to do with TNA being a career-killer and more to do with TNA not being able to make you huge star and earn you bigger pay days in the future.

Look at RAW tonight if you think TNA is a career killer.

As for signings, I want them and I kind of want them in bunches, but I don't know if that will even improve the product. It's not a fun time for me as a TNA fan. TNA let a lot top indy talent slip by and sign with WWE, but had they signed with TNA I can't be sure they'd be used any better. I thought the Wolves were a good signing, but I haven't been impressed by them.

As for the mish-mash, maybe that's the problem. TNA is no longer the best wrestling product and they don't give the best promos or have much production. When they try to do something big and grand it looks cheap and then when they put on good wrestling matches it's between 46 yr old crippled Kurt Angle and WWE trained EC3 or Magnus (who isn't an exciting wrestler) and Jeff Hardy, who we've seen for decades.

TNA is missing an identity and that's why I am all for an overhaul. MVP does nothing because talk doesn't cut it in TNA. Everyone seems to be waiting for Samoa Joe to re-gain his popularity from 2005 (10 years people) and I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed. Angle and Hardy are needed for recognition but they'd be better off back in WWE for a last match or two, do you think at this point they could spike ratings past the first month if at all(think fans going to let them take D Bryan's spot?)

To me, TNA's best alternative to WWE is new, fresh guys. Whole roster doesn't have to be, but sacrifices have to be made and have been made but not enough. Magnus is there 6 years, Storm, Roode, both given multiple shots, Abyss 12 year vet basically like Kane now in WWE, no one seems to have a plan for Sam Shaw - I could keep going but the point is, TNA can't establish anything new with this current roster. They ditched the originals and brought back the 6 sided-ring, which was meant for the originals, not EC 3, Tyrus, Bram, Magnus, etc.

It's just a mess. It's sad because TNA actually listens to fans, but they're hearing "We Want Wrestling" when that's not what TNA needs or even knows how to find at this point.

So I don't know who they should sign. A new monster? A couple of crazy guys from CZW? A couple talented in-ring workers from the indies? A couple guys known for their mic skills? Couple of guys who can connect with the crowd easily? It seems simple enough but TNA never seems to get it right when they do have pieces in place, not that anyone else does either, but they don't have the resources to hype something to the moon and have people believe in it, even if it's just garbage.

I guess I'd like to sign(w/o knowing contracts) - Kenny Omega and the young bucks are the standouts of the Bullet Club to me, good chemistry cause they're actually friends.

Jay Briscoe seems to be the one ROH guy completely deserving but will never be hired by WWE, I'd sign up him and his brother. I think they're a tag that could really tell a great story against the Hardy's and Jay to me can be a "leading man" whether he wants to start a stable, fight a stable, go for World title.

Colt Cabana is an engaging personality and I think he could wear a number of hats in TNA. Jerry Lawler was a wrestler for WWF and filled in for Macho Man when he went to WCW, was meant to be for the week, that was 20+ years ago.

I'm use to wrestling where you might see Mr. Perfect/Owen Hart/Macho Man/Bret Hart/Roddy Piper and manager Bobby Heenan etc filling in whole shows on commentary. Or Ted Dibiase, Rick Rude, Mr Perfect accompanying wrestlers even when they had other mouth pieces. I'd like to see things maybe shaken up once in a while in TNA where an announcer gets attacked and Jeff Hardy(though especially not him) has to fill in or do an interview. Or some guy interferes for no reason and their is no storyline reason for it, like you might of seen Kane or X-Pac do back in the day.

I don't want predictable. A guy doesn't have to attack someone else just because it means they are set to feud for the next 3 months.

TNA's keeping the roster they have, we know that much for sure. I don't want any name worthy guys because the young, hungry guys are proving to be better anyway. If a Cesaro were to be fired, great grab him, or a Chris Hero, but Christian, Kane, Big Show, ADR, Edge, RVD, Rey Mysterio, Kofi Kingston, John Morrison... they ARE NOT WORTH IT!

 

[TDFG]

The last thing TNA needs to do is spend $$$ on more veterans. I'm glad they didn't get ADR or Edge, no offence to either man but TNA needs to start establishing the next generation of the company.

Has anyone been impressed by MVP since he signed? The Wolves have generated more interest and I think if TNA signed a tag-team and one or two guys who are at home in both the X-Division & Heavyweight Division i.e. Austin Aries.

Storm & Roode are both 37, Aries 36, Low-Ki & Samoa Joe 35. These guys are TNA veterans, TNA should be playing up there successes, give the new viewer some history on them.

Bennett, Elgin, Ricochet, Young Bucks, these guys are around 27 - 32, invest in these guys & together with the above veterans and The Hardys, The Wolves, ECIII, Bram, Gunner, Sam Shaw TNA would have a good roster that would be set for years to come.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I hate how stuff like this somehow makes its way onto "wrasslin' scoopz sites" when the people reporting it who actually have a clue never said that to begin with. ADR was said to be uneasy about joining TNA because he knew of the issues they'd had over the last couple of years and he didn't want to become embroiled in that. That's all that was said, nothing about "killing his career" or anything like that. It probably did come down to the exclusive aspect but apparently the deal TNA offered him was $400,000 for only a few dates a year, his reason for turning them down is his own and nobody knows. Right now he has his plate full to the brim with AAA, Ring of Honor, Lucha Underground, WWL in Puerto Rico and if he wants, promotions in Japan.

And I will disagree with you that all they need to do is restructure the product. Sometimes to do that you need different people playing the roles. TNA does need new guys, not recognizable guys either, but just guys who can offer different things than the guys they have now. On the face of it, the TNA roster right now isn't very good for a company who wants to do sports entertainment like WWE or just straight up wrestling like ROH. Their rostered is a mish-mash of guys.

Sure, I agree, which is also why I tend to operate under the assumption that what a sheet is reporting isn't true until it's actually true. Oh, Hogan is signing in TNA? Sure, I'll discuss what I think that might mean for the company should it occur, but I'm not accepting that claim simply because it's being reported. People like to give TNA shit for being the boy who cried wolf company... well, to me, dirt sheets have an even worse reputation that's actually worse in reality because they're never held accountable. Say what you will about the TNA product, but at least they have to own up to their own faults.

As to ADR/TNA, reading between the lines makes the answer quite clear IMO — $400K for "a few dates a year" means $400K for a few dates a year. Add an exclusivity clause and you are now sitting on your ass unable to perform for ROH, Lucha Underground, etc. because they are televised competitors. The answer is clear. His "no" was almost assuredly over that, and only that, because it was clear as day not a few months ago when he was doing interviews heading into the new year that he was quite excited about the opportunity to work with TNA.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

The last thing TNA needs to do is spend $$$ on more veterans. I'm glad they didn't get ADR or Edge, no offence to either man but TNA needs to start establishing the next generation of the company.

Has anyone been impressed by MVP since he signed? The Wolves have generated more interest and I think if TNA signed a tag-team and one or two guys who are at home in both the X-Division & Heavyweight Division i.e. Austin Aries.

Storm & Roode are both 37, Aries 36, Low-Ki & Samoa Joe 35. These guys are TNA veterans, TNA should be playing up there successes, give the new viewer some history on them.

Bennett, Elgin, Ricochet, Young Bucks, these guys are around 27 - 32, invest in these guys & together with the above veterans and The Hardys, The Wolves, ECIII, Bram, Gunner, Sam Shaw TNA would have a good roster that would be set for years to come.

Well, this is only true if you are of the belief that establishing a new group are all that matter — which I find is only true of people who either do not understand the business aspect of this, or don't care. For those that do, and do, those veterans are all the difference in the world between operating in the red or the black.

Sorry, but fun as it might be for TNA to sign Chuck Taylor and make him a TNA guy ready to carry the torch for them into future years, no one knows who the fuck Chuck Taylor is. Running an advertisement hyping him would be about as effective as running one promoting your debut with the company.

You know what does catch eye balls? Vets. Guys people recognize. Edge. ADR. Hogan.

That's why they go those routes. Recognition sells. You are far less likely to buy the cheap can of soup with the no-frills brand on it, even if it's a better can of soup, because you are conditioned to accept that Campbell's or whatever other brand are superior.

 

[TDFG]

those veterans are all the difference in the world between operating in the red or the black.

You know what does catch eye balls? Vets. Guys people recognize. Edge. ADR. Hogan.

Recognition sells.

Recognition only lasts for so long, when Hogan was on TNA every week it was terrible. In fact TNA have never recovered.

How many guys did Hogan, Nash or Hall put over in their time at TNA. They seen a cash cow and milked it.

What has MVP done since he signed? Is ADR value for money on $400k p/a for limited appearances - hell no.

Invest that 400k elsewhere.

 

[MrHashasheen]

Snip

Have to disagree, IDR. ROH is in the better position right now because they've effectively used bigger names to build their guys, and they've continually built new guys over the last decade to replace those lost. TNA has done a sterling job with guys like EC3, Rockstar Spud, Bram, but they could use guys like Taylor, Bennett, etc... who have a level of indie recognizability and security in they're not going to the 'E any time soon to keep the roster feeling fresh and keep momentum going rather than going back to guys like Dreamer, Rhino, etc...

TNA has had foreign veterans for years on end that barely gave them momentum, with guys like Hogan, Nash, Hall, any of the guys Bischoff brought in like Venis, Dreamer and the ECW nostalgia run, etc... Even Jeff Hardy couldn't come through, though of course he had serious problems from the get-go.

You got me at "Talent Drought" OP. Really? They have a hard time bringing young talent into the company? You do realize the only people who made their name in the WWE that are in the TNA spotlight are MVP, The Hardys and Lashley right? Four people. I'm not even joking, watch the show, you'll see for yourself. Everyone else is all either TNA originals or ... wait for it ... FRESH YOUNG TALENT. Do you know why? Because they already had an influx of new people. It happened last year. Now they're being built into more than "new guys".

Er... Mr. Anderson? Tyrus? Tommy Dreamer and Rhino fall under ECW. Their entire commentary team, if you count non-wrestlers who came from bigger companies.

TNA doesn't have a talent drought, TNA is soaking wet when it comes to talent. They got everyone they need right now, they're fine. Use those people and when they get useless then change them up. They got talkers, they got powerhouses, they got X-Division guys, they got monsters, they got risk takers, they got tag teams, they got stables, they got popular names, they got TNA originals, they got new promising talent and they even got some new cool female wrestlers.

I don't quite disagree, they've got a decent roster put together. It just doesn't feel that way or come off as such to many people, especially when a chunk of the roster has been there for such a long time and have pretty much done everything they possibly could. The overexposure isn't as bad as the 'E, but it is there for guys like Young, Roode, Joe, Ki, Angle, etc...

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Sure, I agree, which is also why I tend to operate under the assumption that what a sheet is reporting isn't true until it's actually true. Oh, Hogan is signing in TNA? Sure, I'll discuss what I think that might mean for the company should it occur, but I'm not accepting that claim simply because it's being reported. People like to give TNA shit for being the boy who cried wolf company... well, to me, dirt sheets have an even worse reputation that's actually worse in reality because they're never held accountable. Say what you will about the TNA product, but at least they have to own up to their own faults.

I'm not going to disagree with you here - and for what it's worth I agree with what you say about ADR -, Bryan Alvarez doesn't like TNA and it's evident in the way he speaks about them. Meltzer wants TNA to succeed and as I pointed out in another thread has been very defensive of them since their move to Destination America. He was very complimentary of TNA Unlocked which by the way, even though I haven't watched it, to me sounds like a good little program and the ESPN Sportcenter-esq theme is actually somewhat unique and a good idea. But again, the reply of, "what these guys say isn't true because we don't know if it's true until it's true" is bogus in my mind. Meltzer especially. I could list of 15 different things hes said would happen to TNA in the last year and hes been right. MVP signing, EC3 being Derrick Bateman, The Wolves signing, TNA to Destination America, Sting leaving, AJ Styles leaving, before AJ ever said a word about his contract Meltzer had all the details and was bang on every single one. Guys being paid laid, which Kaz, Daniels and Styles have all backed up, Bully Ray's contract situation, and so on, so forth.

Its always going to up to the person reading the report, but just to put an end to the whole "career killer" crap, nobody credible, Meltzer, Alvarez or Mike Johnson ever said anything like that. They did have conversation on the pros and cons of joining TNA and yes they concluded there are a lot more cons than pros these days, monetary and beyond, but nobody ever said anything about "career killing" or any such term like it.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

To be perfectly honest, I don't think spending large sums of money for wrestlers who've already been established in WWE is going to help TNA. They've gone down that road many, many times already and it's always come to the same dead end. Del Rio, while a high quality in-ring talent, isn't a big money maker. For Del Rio, I think that $400,000 is too much for a "minimal schedule" as he was reportedly offered. Besides that, it's not as if Del Rio isn't well off and needs the money. He made a lot of money in WWE and drew a lot of money while working in Mexico. Considering that 1 US dollar is equal to almost 15 Mexican pesos, Del Rio's no doubt set for life many times over in Mexico.

As far as all the career killer stuff goes, I'm not really buying it. If Del Rio was concerned about TNA hurting his career, then he wouldn't have even been considering signing with them, mid six figure salary or not. Besides, as I said, Del Rio's already set and it's not as though anything going on in TNA would lower Del Rio's standing in Mexico should he ever decide he wants to work for AAA or CMLL again.

I think TNA'd be better off recruiting some hungry, fresh talent. If they're already established in Japan, ROH, PWG, CZW or wherever, that's all well & good. TNA is eventually going to have to build it's product around fresher and younger wrestlers rather than where older guys go to after parting ways with WWE or with older guys WWE isn't interesting in bringing back.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Recognition only lasts for so long, when Hogan was on TNA every week it was terrible. In fact TNA have never recovered.

How many guys did Hogan, Nash or Hall put over in their time at TNA. They seen a cash cow and milked it.

What has MVP done since he signed? Is ADR value for money on $400k p/a for limited appearances - hell no.

Invest that 400k elsewhere.

You aren’t understanding my point. I’m not talking about booking. I’m talking about eye balls. If tomorrow you hear of this brand new company called Pony Wrestling Express that’s going to be debuting on the Oprah Network, what reason do you have to watch if they aren’t telling you they’ve gone out and brought in an Alberto Del Rio, or a Jeff Hardy, or a Hulk Hogan, or a whomever? If it’s essentially a televised indie-fed, outside of the niche audience who understand who these men and women are and appreciate them already understanding their characters, having seen them wrestle already, who is “getting” this new promotion? The answer, at least to a ratings audience, is no one. The five guys saying “Pft! I’ve been watching Johnny Indie since 2008!” are anomalies. They are outliers in the general, big-picture sense.

What “draws” new eyes are recognizable stars. “We’re TNA! We’re moving to Destination America, our new home, and you can come here to see Jeff Hardy, Kurt Angle and our newest star, Alberto Del Rio!” You’ve now got the hook firmly planted. That’s marketing. From that point, you then sell The Wolves, ECIII, etc. to that new eye audience member to get them to stick. That’s booking. The two work hand-in-hand, but one foot has to take the first step, and that’s marketing. Strong booking keeps an audience. Strong marketing gains one.

I'm not going to disagree with you here - and for what it's worth I agree with what you say about ADR -, Bryan Alvarez doesn't like TNA and it's evident in the way he speaks about them. Meltzer wants TNA to succeed and as I pointed out in another thread has been very defensive of them since their move to Destination America. He was very complimentary of TNA Unlocked which by the way, even though I haven't watched it, to me sounds like a good little program and the ESPN Sportcenter-esq theme is actually somewhat unique and a good idea. But again, the reply of, "what these guys say isn't true because we don't know if it's true until it's true" is bogus in my mind. Meltzer especially. I could list of 15 different things hes said would happen to TNA in the last year and hes been right. MVP signing, EC3 being Derrick Bateman, The Wolves signing, TNA to Destination America, Sting leaving, AJ Styles leaving, before AJ ever said a word about his contract Meltzer had all the details and was bang on every single one. Guys being paid laid, which Kaz, Daniels and Styles have all backed up, Bully Ray's contract situation, and so on, so forth.

Its always going to up to the person reading the report, but just to put an end to the whole "career killer" crap, nobody credible, Meltzer, Alvarez or Mike Johnson ever said anything like that. They did have conversation on the pros and cons of joining TNA and yes they concluded there are a lot more cons than pros these days, monetary and beyond, but nobody ever said anything about "career killing" or any such term like it.

When I say “dirt sheet”, I’m speaking generally. I’m putting Alvarez in the same bucket as Meltzer in the same bucket as any other site and giving them a general opinion/tactic. In fact, I’m especially talking about the WZ main page, as they are as guilty as anyone of the kind of yellow journalism I’m talking about. I realize there are some folks more in the know than others, and some with better track records for being right, rather than wrong, but for me personally, I tend to treat them all with the same brush of being brushed off simply because of how pernicious that side of the business has been for as long as I can remember.

I suppose that’s on me, though, and I probably need to do a better job of not throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

To be perfectly honest, I don't think spending large sums of money for wrestlers who've already been established in WWE is going to help TNA. They've gone down that road many, many times already and it's always come to the same dead end. Del Rio, while a high quality in-ring talent, isn't a big money maker. For Del Rio, I think that $400,000 is too much for a "minimal schedule" as he was reportedly offered. Besides that, it's not as if Del Rio isn't well off and needs the money. He made a lot of money in WWE and drew a lot of money while working in Mexico. Considering that 1 US dollar is equal to almost 15 Mexican pesos, Del Rio's no doubt set for life many times over in Mexico.

I think TNA'd be better off recruiting some hungry, fresh talent. If they're already established in Japan, ROH, PWG, CZW or wherever, that's all well & good. TNA is eventually going to have to build it's product around fresher and younger wrestlers rather than where older guys go to after parting ways with WWE or with older guys WWE isn't interesting in bringing back.

And while that's true, those fresh young talents need veterans to get them over. That's the kicker here no one seems to want to accept as fact.

No one knows who Chuck Taylor is. Indie fans do, because they've watched him, but when you are parading Chuck Taylor out on TNA television on a Friday night on Destination America, hoping for all those new eyes they want, those eyes simply aren't going to recognize him one bit. So get him, by all means, but understand he needs to beat someone they do recognize in order to develop the legitimacy he'd need to usher in any kind of new era of young stars.

 

[MrHashasheen]

And while that's true, those fresh young talents need veterans to get them over. That's the kicker here no one seems to want to accept as fact.

No one knows who Chuck Taylor is. Indie fans do, because they've watched him, but when you are parading Chuck Taylor out on TNA television on a Friday night on Destination America, hoping for all those new eyes they want, those eyes simply aren't going to recognize him one bit. So get him, by all means, but understand he needs to beat someone they do recognize in order to develop the legitimacy he'd need to usher in any kind of new era of young stars.

What are guys like Samoa Joe, Low Ki, MVP, Lashley, the Hardys, James Storm, Robert Roode and Eric Young if not veterans?

 

[It's Damn Real!]

They are veterans. They're also veterans TNA already owns. So the marketing opportunities there aren't as strong (in the case of Joe, Ki, Storm and Roode) as they would be with ADR. The key to signing a guy like ADR or Edge (more so the former than the latter due to injury) is that they're being sold as new toys who are well known from their time with WWE. That's why TNA is able to capitalize, to whatever extent, on the popularity of Hardy, Lashley and MVP as well. It's why they go back to that well despite it not really having that great a track record for them historically.

They can go your route, or whomevers route, and sign Jigsaw and Elgin and all these other guys who are largely unknown to the "general" wrestling audience, or they can bring in well known commodities to try and keep eyes on their product. It's their choice, right or wrong.

And to be clear here, I don't actually want ADR. I've gone on record about that a few times now, but I want to do so again here so we're crystal. I just understand from TNA's perspective why they'd want him. And it's for exactly the reasons I just spoke about.

He's a gateway to new viewers in every way that Jigsaw isn't, and it's as simple as for the fact that ADR has WWE appeal and Jigsaw doesn't.

 

[Boring]

Wasn't there talk that CM Punk was offered Hogan money to join TNA - wasn't Hogan making like 5 million? If you are ADR and you hear that are you taking 400k? He may have been insulted or was negotiating for more knowing that. Fortunately, he's not signed with TNA.

I understand exactly what It's Damn is saying. I would of liked TNA to have had a big name(s) for the Dest America debut, but the timing wasn't right as far as names go. I actually would of rather gotten Edge (don't care for either) over Del Rio though because even though he isn't wrestling his fan base is bigger and Edge could do a number of speaking roles. With that said, Edge is acting now and I'm sure he's got some sort of arrangement with WWE. So as a fan, its no loss to me.

CM Punk would of been the big get, but we all know how that turned out. As far as WWE alumni, there really is no one other then Punk that would be a game changer. Drew McIntyre would probably be as effective as Tyrus signing.

The one guy I actually thought TNA got after I saw a headline "Shocking name backstage" for the premiere was former UFC draw Chael Sonnen. Then when the show started the person who grabbed the envelope under the door had a similar physique to Chael, I was almost positive it was him. Before JB was scalped he was about to introduce a guest before EC3 came out and they've never explained who that was. Had Chael debuted, I'm sure it would of got people talking and he would of been a unique personality for the discovery network and I'd assume he'd be taking over Angle's former role.

To get eyeballs on the show, aside from Punk, Chael Sonnen might have been one of the best names they can get. He was hosting shows on FoxSports till he got suspended and hasn't been seen since. Before that, Fox had a very high regard for him and I could see Discovery making use of his expertise and speaking ability as well as TNA.

 

[TDFG]

You aren’t understanding my point. I’m not talking about booking. I’m talking about eye balls. If tomorrow you hear of this brand new company called Pony Wrestling Express that’s going to be debuting on the Oprah Network, what reason do you have to watch if they aren’t telling you they’ve gone out and brought in an Alberto Del Rio, or a Jeff Hardy, or a Hulk Hogan, or a whomever? If it’s essentially a televised indie-fed, outside of the niche audience who understand who these men and women are and appreciate them already understanding their characters, having seen them wrestle already, who is “getting” this new promotion? The answer, at least to a ratings audience, is no one. The five guys saying “Pft! I’ve been watching Johnny Indie since 2008!” are anomalies. They are outliers in the general, big-picture sense.

But you also need to keep the new fan watching, it's no good paying someone a big figure if a casual viewer watches once and that's it, and that's my point about ADR, he is not someone that will make you watch a product each week, if Hogan can't attract more viewers regularly ADR sure as hell can't.

I would also say if you bring in a household name veteran in a company that is full of WWE/TNA veterans there is very little chance for the new blood to come through.

Look at TNA Heavyweight Title picture, where's the new blood that's coming through the ranks?

 

[It's Damn Real!]

But you also need to keep the new fan watching, it's no good paying someone a big figure if a casual viewer watches once and that's it, and that's my point about ADR, he is not someone that will make you watch a product each week, if Hogan can't attract more viewers regularly ADR sure as hell can't.

I would also say if you bring in a household name veteran in a company that is full of WWE/TNA veterans there is very little chance for the new blood to come through.

Look at TNA Heavyweight Title picture, where's the new blood that's coming through the ranks?

Well, I'm not quite sure the two really equate since Hogan's role was never as an in-ring performer. ADR's would be. He'd probably be booked similarly to the way I understand Lesnar is with WWE, with sporadic dates, where he isn't on the show week-to-week. I have no real understanding of the success or failure of that because I don't watch the product, but if the offer reported was true, it was fore "minimal dates".

But I do agree that ADR isn't the kind of guy they should be sinking that kind of money into. I reminded everyone earlier that I've never been a fan of his, and that I've been saying since these ADR to TNA rumors have started that I was against the idea. I just also understand why TNA would have interest in the first place. It's based on the concept of marketing, and he'd have made a lot of sense as a marketing ploy for the debut on Destination America. It'd have given them more hype to the move.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

No one knows who Chuck Taylor is. Indie fans do, because they've watched him, but when you are parading Chuck Taylor out on TNA television on a Friday night on Destination America, hoping for all those new eyes they want, those eyes simply aren't going to recognize him one bit. So get him, by all means, but understand he needs to beat someone they do recognize in order to develop the legitimacy he'd need to usher in any kind of new era of young stars.

I know they had a lot more exposure and more of a reputation, but The Wolves were literally thrown onto TNA TV and their names weren't mentioned for two weeks if I remember. Austin Aries, again had more exposure and more of a reputation, but when he returned to TNA as Austin Aries, almost everyone knew or had heard of who Austin Aries is.

I'd argue that the majority of TNA's fanbase are hardcore wrestling fans who watch it more out of habit and less out of the fact they need their fix of TNA. I know you're like that, but I doubt there are many like you. What I'm saying is, if Chuck Taylor, one of the most known names on the indies, who has never had his reputation ruined by a company like WWE, ROH or TNA previously, debuted, you'd create a lot of buzz within the wrestling community because Taylor has the talent to make people talk. TNA doesn't need guys with names as much as it needs guys with different talents.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I know they had a lot more exposure and more of a reputation, but The Wolves were literally thrown onto TNA TV and their names weren't mentioned for two weeks if I remember. Austin Aries, again had more exposure and more of a reputation, but when he returned to TNA as Austin Aries, almost everyone knew or had heard of who Austin Aries is.

I'd argue that the majority of TNA's fanbase are hardcore wrestling fans who watch it more out of habit and less out of the fact they need their fix of TNA. I know you're like that, but I doubt there are many like you. What I'm saying is, if Chuck Taylor, one of the most known names on the indies, who has never had his reputation ruined by a company like WWE, ROH or TNA previously, debuted, you'd create a lot of buzz within the wrestling community because Taylor has the talent to make people talk. TNA doesn't need guys with names as much as it needs guys with different talents.

Personally, I'd rather they go that route. But again, I understand why the folks in the front office feel otherwise. That's all I'm saying here. I get what they see in ADR, even if I don't personally see it myself. They are probably operating under the assumption that there's still an unaware audience out there up for grabs from that WWE "universe" who aren't watching and may because someone like ADR shows up.